BOUGHT/THOUGHT for June 13, 2007

[Nasty-B]

I thought they merged in the Sentry's New Avengers arc. Granted, that arc confused me a lot.

New Avengers #31: Remember what I said earlier about being tired of heroes who are willing to kill? Bendis is definitely not helping on that front. Wolverine actually comes right out and commands the New Avengers to kill the Hand's ninjas, and nobody but Hawkeye disagrees. Spider-Woman actually agrees right off the bat, which is actually fine for me, since I hate that ho anyway. Kudos to Hawkeye, but what about Spider-Man, Luke Cage, and Iron Fist? Did they become cold-blooded murderers while my back was turned? I'm assuming Iron Fist, at least, still didn't kill because he still had plain escrima sticks to block the ninjas' swords, rather than grabbing swords from fallen ninjas like Echo did. It seems a little off for Spider-Man to not have spoken up at that, though. He's always taken an absolute no-killing policy, and he believes in it so strongly that he's come to blows with the Punisher and Wolverine himself over it several times in the past. It could be his angst in the wake of May's brush with death that kept him silent, but that's exactly what I was afraid of with Back in Black's promise of a darker, angrier Spider-Man. Spider-Man as a character just doesn't work for me if he's running around smashing people's heads open with no remorse. But enough about my apparently old-school hang-ups about superheroes who are actually heroic.

I always thought that the super hero community agreed that it was okay to kill Hand Ninjas, because they're mindless automotons, who gave up their souls and turn to dust rather than bleed out.

 

[TheCorpulent1]

There was plenty of bleeding going on in the issue.

 

[LouFerignoDemon]

Dr. Doom is a guy in armor who became enemies with his best friend and seeks to take over the world in order to "save" it and produce his idea of a better one. Backstabbing allies for personal gain, or when they are of no use, is also a standard tactic.

No, Iron Man isn't Dr. Doom. Stark seems to have slightly more honor (such as in allowing many in Cap's resistance "second chances" to register and not be arrested) and token willingness to avoid conflicts. But at times he has seemed very close lately.

It's not Stark's fault. The fault falls at the feet of Millar, JMS, Hudlin, Jenkins, and other writers who ridiculously overplayed the SHRA hand to make them seem loathesome in order to throw the audience. They were supposed to be the heroes and Cap was supposed to have made an error in judgement. This would have worked had the writers not been afriad of the audience catching on and properly built that, instead of making Iron Man a jack booted thug who hires supervillains and providing splashy distractions like Clor and Spidey Unmasking. Some of the one-shots that came via delays made far better sense of Iron Man's agenda without villifying him than some of the core mini's. But it is what it is.

He'll eventually be redeemed, though. WWH could be part of it.

He can seem like Doom at times, with the whole, "Let's do less than absolutely perfectly moral things to get the job done" sometimes. But Doom was all about full and total submission, where you have people like Stark bending over backwards for other people at some times, and taking orders from other people at other times.

But I agree with CW, that Millar and the rest basically did all they could to make it seem like Stark was a bad guy.

Blackbolt getting beat is ******ed. I don't care how angry Hulk is.

Agreedizzle.

Stark's.
But with a little bit of Sentry's on top.

I don't why... but it felt a little dirty typing that.

Seriously though? That's how it works. Stark Tower was there first, and then Sentry plopped his base down on top of it.

It shouldn't work. I always hated the idea, but hey, I don't write or draw, just read.






Either way, I liked WWH. I still think Tony should just go about replacing the Destroyer Iron Man armor, seeing how that was basically his most powerful armor to date (though he'd need it's power source, which I'm sure is still laying around in bricks). I'm psyched.


AND!! I picked up Black Summer, and it rocked.

 

[Doc Destruction]

Damn, Slott beat me to the punch! Foiled again!

 

[iloveclones]

I thought we scared the Slott-Man away. Nice to see him still lurking around...

 

[ImrtlLimpWrist]

New Avengers is turning into my favorite read but I agree they ought to be able to demolish 1,000 ninjas with hardly breaking a sweat and I am tired of the powered-down Spider-Man. I blame the movies for that. I hate Spider-Woman as well and she's only there cuz they need a pair of boobs. I liked the long battles altho it took me a while to figure out that the white streaks around Logan were claw slashes. Isn't Electra's disappearance tied to the Wolverine: Enemy of the State run?

Justice final issue - I've got to believe Alex Ross hates Hawkman altho I did like the armored Hawks. Hawks and Flash could have stayed home. I have to do a re-read of the final 3-4 books to connect the dots.

Blade 10 - I love love love the movie and TV characterizations. This book, however, kinda sucks.

Green Arrow 75 - I only read this because I love archery. (Just got me a hand-crossbow even!) Looking forward to the Year One upcoming series but this I won't miss. The entire JLA shows up and those guys still make good their escape?

 

[Darthphere]

I thought we scared the Slott-Man away. Nice to see him still lurking around...

Slott fears nothing.

 

[Purple Man]

Did anyone else notice that Dan Slott was just in here?

That wasn't Dan Slott! It was a Skrull!

Anyone notice that only the really good humored writers like Slott and Simone post on message boards that aren't their own.

Though I'm sure it's no suprise that they are two of the most respected writers out there, and have a suprisingly short list of haters.

Bendis would be descended upon like a bleeding calf in a lake full of piranha

 

[Dread]

Dread, I didn't read Planet Hulk, and I have no intention of doing so if the auctions for the issues on Ebay remain as high as they are.

You don't need to have read it. You remember how I likened Mighty Avengers to a big, dumb summer movie? WWH is the same thing, accept it's smarter, more accessible and it makes more sense.

I'd say pick it up. It's only five issues, and JRJR's art is more than worth the cover price.

Welllllllll....yeah.

But you don't even need to read it. The Hulk will recap the important parts in the first issue.

It is sooooo freaking awesome. EVERYONE needs to buy this!

You're assuming way too much about missing out on Planet Hulk. Not that much happened, you won't miss any references. Seriously, the first couple issues and the last couple were good, but most of it was slow-moving. All you need to know is that Hulk got shipped off to a planet, was weakened, got thrown into a gladitorial role, beat up and then helped free a weakened Silver Surfer, made some buddies in the ring, overthrew the emperor, and then his ship somehow blew up, killing a lot of alien peeps, including his wife. Who had a totally rad *****! I'm assuming. Also, his baby in her sexy alien womb.

That's all that's referenced in the first issue. Her name was Caeira. Hulk remembers the explosion and gets mad. Buy this

Maybe pick up Hulk #107 or WWH Prologue. Either/Or. It'll familiarize you, if you really must have a little more backstory. Plus, it has Amadeus Cho, the coolest new character in years. Way cooler than any of your treasured Runaways

I've taken stock of the advice and decided to follow it. I'll try to get WWH #1 and probably the Prologue today or tomorrow. I just won't get any extra tie-in's than the ones I am getting via already collecting said title (such as GHOST RIDER or AVENGERS: INITIATIVE). Not even the possibility of Sally Floyd getting smashed will allow me to give FRONTLINE another go.

Blackbolt getting beat is ******ed. I don't care how angry Hulk is.

I should wait and see the issue, but on principle I agree; Black Bolt's shockwave voice is one of few mega-attacks that could REALLY hurt the Hulk. I mean a whisper can level a neighborhood. Maybe Black Bolt was holding back on that, though, and without that voice, he basically channels his energy into becoming about 40-85 tons or so, which is enough to fight The Thing, but not Hulk, whose strength can always rise. He has his "master blow" strike, though. I agree that overcoming Black Bolt should never be a light affair.

I'm reading WWH with having read Planet Hulk, and I get it fine (they lay out the basics within the issue, anyway).

And I watched Return of the Jedi first.

As to the Skrulls in NA, remember the prophecy referred to by the Emperor in NA: Illuminati #1: that the Skrulls will come to possess Earth?

As noted, taken the WWH advice into consideration.

Good call on ILLUMINATI. Bendis is willy-nilly with the continuity of others but usually treats his own as gospel. I missed this.

He can seem like Doom at times, with the whole, "Let's do less than absolutely perfectly moral things to get the job done" sometimes. But Doom was all about full and total submission, where you have people like Stark bending over backwards for other people at some times, and taking orders from other people at other times.

But I agree with CW, that Millar and the rest basically did all they could to make it seem like Stark was a bad guy.

The Marvel Editorial Dept. likely realized this error in judgment because ever since they've been trying to backtrack a little on the Iron *****ebag-ness. Except for Bendis, which presents a problem. One could argue, hey, Batman spent years as a *****e and remained hotter than ever, true, but he never hired supervillains, cloned Bizarro (DC's closest thing to Clor) or threatened to lock his allies into a Gulug "without a trial" and gloat about it (JMS). At least most of Marvel here is trying to backtrack from their heavy-handedness (while Joe claims it was all planned, of course).

If Iron Man really wanted to fight the Hulk, he'd create an armor like Titannus' that absorbed gamma radiation, because trying to fight Hulk with brute strength or force is suicide. The only way that can work with Hulk is if someone is powerful enough to TKO him quickly (a feat unto itself), and even then, he may regenerate and get back up. A protracted battle only favors the Hulk. It's part of why I find him very boring physically. You can't beat him. Even that SPIN-Tech stuff may not work because, 1). they never have been able to cure the Hulk/Banner for long, and 2). there have been no end of "magic bullet gun" type weapons used against the Hulk, and they all have failed. All.

From my experience with THE ETERNALS, despite any lead in time, Romita Jr. likely will fall into some delays around issue #3 or #4. But that doesn't matter to me because I like his art and even with delays he's not as slow as Hitch or Cassaday.

 

[TheCorpulent1]

That wasn't Dan Slott! It was a Skrull!

Anyone notice that only the really good humored writers like Slott and Simone post on message boards that aren't their own.

Though I'm sure it's no suprise that they are two of the most respected writers out there, and have a suprisingly short list of haters.

Bendis would be descended upon like a bleeding calf in a lake full of piranha

I doubt it. Most people are civil when the person's actually around.

 

[Darthphere]

I should wait and see the issue, but on principle I agree; Black Bolt's shockwave voice is one of few mega-attacks that could REALLY hurt the Hulk. I mean a whisper can level a neighborhood. Maybe Black Bolt was holding back on that, though, and without that voice, he basically channels his energy into becoming about 40-85 tons or so, which is enough to fight The Thing, but not Hulk, whose strength can always rise. He has his "master blow" strike, though. I agree that overcoming Black Bolt should never be a light affair.

The excuse seems to be that if he used his full power he would destroy Attilan and probably the moon. Which is a good excuse, sort of, but I still hate it.

 

[Darthphere]

I doubt it. Most people are civil when the person's actually around.

Yup, I would probably shake Rob Liefeld's hand if I saw him in person. I'd feel dirty afterwards, but it's the right thing to do.

 

[Not Jake]

I doubt it. Most people are civil when the person's actually around.

I've been mean to Slott when he's here:heart:

 

[TheCorpulent1]

I've been mean to Slott when he's here:heart:

That's why I said "most people." As in "most people, except for those who, like Not Jake, are total, unrepentant pricks."

 

[Purple Man]

This is for you Not Jake. Courtesy of Somethingawful.com

 

[fifthfiend]

Tony Stark is a hero. He may have acted shadily in the past, but here, Greg Pak shows us that Stark is still with the light side of the force. He tells everyone that he takes full responsibility for the Illuminati's actions.

Oh please, that speech was like "I take full responsibility for being a totally wonderful saint who loves the world like a daddy unlike the Hulk who's stupid and sucky and dumb. Watch as I valiantly go to "defend" you all from a guy who isn't actually threatening any of you and pretty much just wants to kick my ass for totally justifiable reasons. Now watch as I fix my ****up by shooting it with missiles why if Bruce were here he'd want me to shoot him with missiles and hey he is so I will. Oh **** I just shot missiles at THE HULK, I'm gonna get PWN3D."

I actually give Pak a lot of credit for so artfully crafting the kind of self-serving narcissistic crap a guy like our post-CW Tony Stark would spout.

 

[Not Jake]

It's not easy being mean, Corp.

 

[TheCorpulent1]

It's not easy being mean

You just make it look that way.

 

[Not Jake]

Oh please, that speech was like "I take full responsibility for being a totally wonderful saint who loves the world like a daddy unlike the Hulk who's stupid and sucky and dumb. Watch as I valiantly go to "defend" you all from a guy who isn't actually threatening any of you and pretty much just wants to kick my ass for totally justifiable reasons. Now watch as I fix my ****up by shooting it with missiles why if Bruce were here he'd want me to shoot him with missiles and hey he is so I will. Oh **** I just shot missiles at THE HULK, I'm gonna get PWN3D."

I actually give Pak a lot of credit for so artfully crafting the kind of self-serving narcissistic crap a guy like our post-CW Tony Stark would spout.

You're so pessimistic

Tony Stark has a cool mustache. Let's agree

 

[PhotoJones]

Yup, I would probably shake Rob Liefeld's hand if I saw him in person. I'd feel dirty afterwards, but it's the right thing to do.

I wouldn't do that. I don't think I'd shout out "YOU SUCK!" or anything, but I don't think I could shake his hand. I'd probably just ignore him.

 

[Dread]

The excuse seems to be that if he used his full power he would destroy Attilan and probably the moon. Which is a good excuse, sort of, but I still hate it.

And I still agree, even though by your own usual stipulations, I should wait until reading the issue before really getting into it.

I guess I could include this for completist's sake:

HELLBOY ANIMATED: THE YEARNING: This is the mini comic that comes with the DTV of HELLBOY ANIMATED: BLOOD AND IRON, the second animated DTV from Dark Horse & Starz Media about Big Red, with Mignola and Del Torro as creative producers. Unlike the mini-comic that came with the first DTV, SWORD OF STORMS, this has some connection to the film as they mention a side-quest that some other BPRD agents end up going on, visiting a mysterious castle made up of the bones of murdered monks. Hellboy & Abe go down, fight some skeleton things, and end up having to kill this big yeti-type monster with a demonic knife. Fairly typical, short fare. The art wasn't as strong as the last mini-comic, though.

As for the feature itself, I liked SWORD OF STORMS more, likely because it had more/better action, and more time for the animation; BLOOD AND IRON bares some sign of rush, much as ULTIMATE AVENGERS 2 looked slighty worse than ULTIMATE AVENGERS did. Despite that, though, it's still great fun and manages to capture more from the comics than the feature film did. In addition to cast regulars Ron Perlman, Doug Jones, Selma Blair and Peri Gilpin, John Hurt reprises his role as Prof. Broom and 90's cartoon vets Cree Summer, Jim Cummings and Rob Paulson have key roles, including the latter as a hilarious rookie agent who has the rather useless power to detect metal ("The Human Metal Detector", to which Hellboy quips, "At least he's not a psychic!"). The European setting is more in tune with the comics and they lift as much from the actual books as they can, such as using the demon Hecate. Despite seeming like a B+ to the A- of SWORD OF STORMS, these animated features still seem more fun to me than a lot of the Marvel/Lion's Gate DTV's, especially the underwhelming INVINCIBLE IRON MAN. And unlike said DTV's, these are loaded with at least twice as many extras, and the folks behind the flicks are more honest about production, warts and all, then the back-patting of the Marvel DTV's. Writer Tad Stones literally admitted to outright ripping off MEMENTO (between movies & comics, THE most ripped off film of the last 10 years) or using a random intro battle to pad out a script that was too short. I prefer that to, say, 10 minutes of the INVINCIBLE IRON MAN crew gushing about how awesome their version of the Mandarin is, when said character is barely on screen 5 minutes, had no real dialogue and simply posesses the lead heroine (yeah, I spoiled that for you if you didn't see it). The end credits hinted the 3rd DTV will have Lobster, and I can't wait. Even though I never read much of the comics, it was an impressive intro and a quirky supernatural universe.

 

[Darthphere]

I wouldn't do that. I don't think I'd shout out "YOU SUCK!" or anything, but I don't think I could shake his hand. I'd probably just ignore him.

Rob is like a hobo, he'll find you and ask you to buy Onslaught Reborn or whatever.

 

[PhotoJones]

And I still agree, even though by your own usual stipulations, I should wait until reading the issue before really getting into it.

I guess I could include this for completist's sake:

HELLBOY ANIMATED: THE YEARNING: This is the mini comic that comes with the DTV of HELLBOY ANIMATED: BLOOD AND IRON, the second animated DTV from Dark Horse & Starz Media about Big Red, with Mignola and Del Torro as creative producers. Unlike the mini-comic that came with the first DTV, SWORD OF STORMS, this has some connection to the film as they mention a side-quest that some other BPRD agents end up going on, visiting a mysterious castle made up of the bones of murdered monks. Hellboy & Abe go down, fight some skeleton things, and end up having to kill this big yeti-type monster with a demonic knife. Fairly typical, short fare. The art wasn't as strong as the last mini-comic, though.

As for the feature itself, I liked SWORD OF STORMS more, likely because it had more/better action, and more time for the animation; BLOOD AND IRON bares some sign of rush, much as ULTIMATE AVENGERS 2 looked slighty worse than ULTIMATE AVENGERS did. Despite that, though, it's still great fun and manages to capture more from the comics than the feature film did. In addition to cast regulars Ron Perlman, Doug Jones, Selma Blair and Peri Gilpin, John Hurt reprises his role as Prof. Broom and 90's cartoon vets Cree Summer, Jim Cummings and Rob Paulson have key roles, including the latter as a hilarious rookie agent who has the rather useless power to detect metal ("The Human Metal Detector", to which Hellboy quips, "At least he's not a psychic!"). The European setting is more in tune with the comics and they lift as much from the actual books as they can, such as using the demon Hecate. Despite seeming like a B+ to the A- of SWORD OF STORMS, these animated features still seem more fun to me than a lot of the Marvel/Lion's Gate DTV's, especially the underwhelming INVINCIBLE IRON MAN. And unlike said DTV's, these are loaded with at least twice as many extras, and the folks behind the flicks are more honest about production, warts and all, then the back-patting of the Marvel DTV's. Writer Tad Stones literally admitted to outright ripping off MEMENTO (between movies & comics, THE most ripped off film of the last 10 years) or using a random intro battle to pad out a script that was too short. I prefer that to, say, 10 minutes of the INVINCIBLE IRON MAN crew gushing about how awesome their version of the Mandarin is, when said character is barely on screen 5 minutes, had no real dialogue and simply posesses the lead heroine (yeah, I spoiled that for you if you didn't see it). The end credits hinted the 3rd DTV will have Lobster, and I can't wait. Even though I never read much of the comics, it was an impressive intro and a quirky supernatural universe.

Man, I really need to see these movies. That rookie agent you mentioned? He's actually a minor character in the comics. I think he was in either Wake the Devil or Conquerer Worm, but I can't be certain. Nice to see they're including small things like that.

 

[TheCorpulent1]

Blood and Iron was awesome. I preferred it over Sword of Storms, myself.

 

[Dread]

Man, I really need to see these movies. That rookie agent you mentioned? He's actually a minor character in the comics. I think he was in either Wake the Devil or Conquerer Worm, but I can't be certain. Nice to see they're including small things like that.

They're good. I enjoy them and I haven't read the comics much beyond some flippings. The "Human Metal Detector"'s name is Syndey Leach in the flick (and likely the comics); I just enjoyed hearing Rob Paulson again. He was all over the place in the 90's, including THE TICK, THE MASK, and ANIMANIACS, among others.

Peri Gilpin plays Kate Corrigan, another character from the comics who wasn't in the film. The animated DTV's allow them to basically translate more from the comics than would work in a film without having to repeat the origin of Hellboy (although it is summarized in the credits and BLOOD AND IRON alludes to it). The production team figures at least 95% of their audience are either fans of the comics or people who saw the film, so they know the origin. There also is no Hellboy/Liz romance subplot or Abe being a psychic, like in the feature film that miffed some fans of the comic. Doug Jones also seemlessly takes over the vocal role of Abe from David Hyde Pierce from the movie (Doug was in the suit, after all) without trying to imitate it. They're both definately worth at least a rental. Besides, the prenium editions come with PVC toys for SWORD OF STORMS and a Hellboy action figure for BLOOD AND IRON (he merrily sits on the same shelf in my room next to a 12 inch Legends figure of Dr. Doom).

Blood and Iron was awesome. I preferred it over Sword of Storms, myself.

Don't get me wrong, I liked Blood and Iron too. It is a different film, more moody and with not as much action as Sword of Storms. But some variety is good.