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Bought/Thought May 26th, 2010 *Spoilers*

From what I've seen around here, at least, it seems like FrankenCastle has pissed most longtime Punisher fans off outright, but the few who have really given it a chance have come to like it. The main thing about it is that it's so drastically different from the Punisher's usual status quo. That opens up a lot of potentially fun and interesting possibilities, but it's a jarring change for some. Personally, I haven't cared enough about the Punisher one way or another to pick up his comic in years now, so it doesn't affect me. For those who are upset, though, just remember: Everything comes back around in comics. Just wait and eventually the Punisher will be back to his human, mobster-killing self.
 
I was an old Punisher fan... though the new FrankenCastle story almost made me get into it again, so I'm not sure about alienating "real" fans... Maybe these alledged "real" fans just like the same old tripe over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over again... which will no doubt happen after this cool new arc... so give it 6 to 12 months.

:yay:
 
Everyone also seems to forget there are TWO Punisher books out there. So for old-school Frank, ya got Max. It's not like with Spidey where Marvel goes this is our version and we're sticking to him!
 
Everyone also seems to forget there are TWO Punisher books out there. So for old-school Frank, ya got Max. It's not like with Spidey where Marvel goes this is our version and we're sticking to him!

Now, now...Joe Quesada and some of the editors have often said, "If you want married Peter Parker, read SPIDER-GIRL!" :o
 
From what I've seen around here, at least, it seems like FrankenCastle has pissed most longtime Punisher fans off outright, but the few who have really given it a chance have come to like it. The main thing about it is that it's so drastically different from the Punisher's usual status quo. That opens up a lot of potentially fun and interesting possibilities, but it's a jarring change for some. Personally, I haven't cared enough about the Punisher one way or another to pick up his comic in years now, so it doesn't affect me. For those who are upset, though, just remember: Everything comes back around in comics. Just wait and eventually the Punisher will be back to his human, mobster-killing self.

Well like i already like to say. They should start reading Punisher Max or Ultimate Avengers 2. :word:
 
Nah, they should read FrankenCastle, the best the character has even been or ever will be, probably.

Yeah, that's right, I said it :word:
 
Aw, come on, there was a time when the concept of the Punisher was fresh and exciting. I think it lasted like a whole week in the '70s... ;)
 
Hello, Punisher fan here. I started out HATING the concept. Now though, I don't know...the thing is, it was so completely out of the element of the character. Now others have said "Hey it's the marvel universe! You want realism, go to Max!" Now I get that, but here's the thing, I like MU Punisher, I liked the new adjustment to his war by using appropriated weapons, and depending on how it was handled, I may have even accepted a somewhat cyborg restored Frank. What bothered me and many fans was how this was all done.

He was made into a patchwork monster and made to hang out with the legion of monsters....see, that's a huge leap. For me, that would be like taking Daredevil, a streetwise hero, and having him fight in the cosmic areas because a little throwaway comment mentioned the Hand had a connection to the Shiar. Frank is a normal guy, surrounded by uber beings and makes it by through inhuman dedication, the sarifice of any normalcy in his life, and amazing skills. (combat, logic, tactics) He didn't need this to be beefed up. I'm not against adding controversial changes to spruce a character up, but if it's at the cost of their coreidentity, or just horribly handled, then it's a problem for me. If they wanted to change the direction of his life and mission, they didn't need to just give him a power boost. Add on some things, give him something to think about and focus on, and question himself.

Now, we all know he's going to be normal again, and in recent previews they said how. For me, I've been slowly coming around to the idea in part because his internal reactions to this are quite interesting, and his overt connection to the monsters is no longer the main basis of this book. Part of what made me come around is the idea that finally Frank has died, his misssion is over, he feels that he may have a chance to be with them again...he then wakes up an abomination. Rescued or cursed, he's not at peace and brought back into the meat grinder. For me, while I was glad Ennis closed the book on zombisher, I was hoping to at least see that scene when he severed ties with heaven, saw his family and was sent back. I wanted to know what his family's reaction would be to what he's become, and what his thoughts were to being so close, but so far once again. Now, with him killing copies of his family and being dead himself, only to be whisked away, I'm curious as to his interalization of these developments, and what long term damage this will have on him.

Overall, the idea I found was interesting, but not fitting with Frank. Now I've gone from adamently hating this direction, to accepting it and seeing and judging things on an issue to issue basis. I know not many of you are fans of ol' Frank, but try and see things from our perspective. Take Thor, mess him up, throw him into a overtly technological setting or even stranger, throw him into a mundane, "realistic" world. Fill it with Noir elements, and mortality. Wouldn't that be a bit stange? As a Thor fan also, I'd be running around yelling Nordic threats, growing out my hair, relaxing it, dying it blond, getting contacts and yelling. "Midguard must faaaaaaallll!" *and get reality bending effects to simulate slow motion* :woot:
 
Geez, lookee what I started...:wow:

I haven't heard that, but it seems that all of it's fans are new. So, you can gain new ones at the cost of alienating long-term (read:actual) ones. I've said it before and I'll say it again: If you're going to do some bizarre WTF concept like this, create your own character. Don't F*** up one that's been around since 1974 and HAD a loyal fan base.

Sorry bro, but the fan base can't be all that loyal when the Punisher's books were constantly being stopped and started during the 90's and spent all that time at the bottom of sales charts.

And when I agreed with Dread, it was about how Remender uses the Marvel Handbook to his advantage (Morbius, Werewolf by Night, the Bloodstone, ect) and how his book is barely cracking the top 100.

It's a shame, because I'm loving the hell out of Frankencastle since it started. The name change of the books title from Punisher to Frankencastle is stupid, I'll wholeheartedly agree.

I'm gonna stick with my theory that the people that hate Frankencastle haven't even read it.....:whatever:
 
Re: FrankenCastle, I think it's totally understandable if longtime fans don't like it. At the same time, it's not really comparable to "Angel Punisher", which is a comparison I often see made, because unlike in that story, you're not really expected to take this that seriously. It's an unapologetically zany concept that the writer milks for all its worth.
 
Speaking to Remender at the Emerald City Comic Con, he did state that "I don't write for fans, I write for myself." Which I can understand. (It's just that he comes across as a bit rude compared to other writers and artists I talked to. It also felt as if he was just tired of the same old questions, especially when the person who came after me asked the same things.) This is not an continual thing, too. Remender is only doing FrankenCastle for a short time, and I think by next year, regular Punisher will be back. (If memory serves me correctly, it seemed to only be about a one-year storyline.)

And, as Wolverine25th said, for those who like old school Frank, there is the Max title....which is my favorite Punisher comic. FrankenCastle is nice; because, it is something different. And, the issues have been pretty darn entertaining.
 
Remender said he's got plans for 2 years of Frankencastle is need be.
 
Avengers #1 - Good.

Why do some people don't like the art? I love the art! haha

Secret Avengers #1. Nice to see this line up. Beast is cool :)
 
The "write for myself" thing is how all writers approach their projects, Phaed. Simple fact is, if it's something they want to read then it will come out much better than something they're forced to write. Now, does this always produce quality work? Again, it's a matter of opinion. Look at Bendis, some people think he can do no wrong, others think he's a hack. Bendis is obviously amongst the former.

Avengers #1, I'm also in the camp of liking old-school JRJR better, back when he had a slight resemblance to his father. His current work is too blocky and grows increasingly sketchy as the years progress. I don't like stylized art, I like clean, crisp, "realistic" art.
 
Geez, lookee what I started...:wow:



Sorry bro, but the fan base can't be all that loyal when the Punisher's books were constantly being stopped and started during the 90's and spent all that time at the bottom of sales charts.

And when I agreed with Dread, it was about how Remender uses the Marvel Handbook to his advantage (Morbius, Werewolf by Night, the Bloodstone, ect) and how his book is barely cracking the top 100.

It's a shame, because I'm loving the hell out of Frankencastle since it started. The name change of the books title from Punisher to Frankencastle is stupid, I'll wholeheartedly agree.

I'm gonna stick with my theory that the people that hate Frankencastle haven't even read it.....:whatever:


Ok well im going to blow that out of the water as i DO read it just like i have read and collected all the Punisher stuff in the past including all the guest appearences. In addition to this I was a fan of Remender before he started the Punisher, reading and enjoying books like Fear Agent, Strange Girl and Sea of Red. While I can accept frankencastle for what it is it isnt the Punisher which is why I for one am glad that Marvel have decided to make the name change without involving Remender in the decision (very interesting that i thought - i will be very suprised if that move improves sales). What I have a problem with is this: frankencastle isnt an original idea from Remender, its reheated Fear Agent crossed with Doll and Creature (which the frankencastle design clearly comes from). The whole frankencastle fiasco I wouldnt even mind if the Punisher wasnt written out character. As a previous poster said Jason Aaron treats the characters he writes with respect and gives the fans what they want. I enjoy Frankenstein monster stuff, i have several series about him in different forms (Frankensteins Mobster, Doc Frankenstein ect) but Remender doesnt seem to care what the fans want. If I want SF/fantasy I will buy a SF/fantasy book - I consider that what Remender has done to the Punisher is similar to what Joey Q has done to Spider-man with the whole satanic deal and done something that is completely opposite to what the character should be about and what the fans want/expect.
I was really looking foward to Remender coming to the Punisher especially after the whole Fraction mess but really I just want the whole thing finished asap. There were many was the Punisher could interact with the 616 universe, a good example was the original Marvel Knights series, but Remender has made the whole thing an embarrasing joke. Its like he wants to ruin all the good work Ennis did on his run where the character has gone from being the most dangerous man alive to a guy who gets killed by a cheap wolverine clone. :doh:
 
In the main Marvel Universe, The Punisher being the most dangerous man alive is nothing short of a joke. A really, really bad joke.

Speaking to Remender at the Emerald City Comic Con, he did state that "I don't write for fans, I write for myself." Which I can understand. (It's just that he comes across as a bit rude compared to other writers and artists I talked to. It also felt as if he was just tired of the same old questions, especially when the person who came after me asked the same things.) This is not an continual thing, too. Remender is only doing FrankenCastle for a short time, and I think by next year, regular Punisher will be back. (If memory serves me correctly, it seemed to only be about a one-year storyline.)

And, as Wolverine25th said, for those who like old school Frank, there is the Max title....which is my favorite Punisher comic. FrankenCastle is nice; because, it is something different. And, the issues have been pretty darn entertaining.

I like when writers are honest about it, instead of pondering to fans and passing their stuff off as something else. Reminds me when Morrison was writing X-Men (I think it was about that time) and he basically said to screw the old fans because they'll buy anything you do with the characters anyway, and focus on doing something different for other readers who aren't fans. People didn't react too well to that if I remember :o
 
I like when writers are honest about it, instead of pondering to fans and passing their stuff off as something else. Reminds me when Morrison was writing X-Men (I think it was about that time) and he basically said to screw the old fans because they'll buy anything you do with the characters anyway, and focus on doing something different for other readers who aren't fans. People didn't react too well to that if I remember :o

He may have alienated old fans but Morrison's run was the only time I read the X-Men. Turning Magneto is a bitter old man with obsolete ideas and just tearing away all that "nobility" was just brilliant.

And seeing the Punisher flying around on a dragon battling Nazi Zombies sounds much more entertaining than him killing mobsters for the nth time.
 
He may have alienated old fans but Morrison's run was the only time I read the X-Men. Turning Magneto is a bitter old man with obsolete ideas and just tearing away all that "nobility" was just brilliant.

And seeing the Punisher flying around on a dragon battling Nazi Zombies sounds much more entertaining than him killing mobsters for the nth time.

To YOU. If you want to see some zombie monster "flying on a dragon battling Nazi Zombies" create a character to do so. Don't F*** up mine with this crap. The Punisher may not jive with all the typical superhero fans (I'm looking at you, "Tron Bonne" :whatever:) but he has a niche audience who want gritty, realistic crime stories. And the argument "you have two titles, just read MAX" is garbage. I don't want one of my favorite characters since childhood turned into a stupid joke by some jackass writer who was bored and wanted to try something new.

Oh, and I HATE "Agents of Atlas" with a passion but you don't see me pissing all over anyone who praises them.
 
To YOU. If you want to see some zombie monster "flying on a dragon battling Nazi Zombies" create a character to do so. Don't F*** upMINE with this crap. The Punisher may not jive with all the typical superhero fans (I'm looking at you, "Tron Bonne" :whatever:) but he has a niche audience who want gritty, realistic crime stories. And the argument "you have two titles, just read MAX" is garbage. I don't want one of my favorite characters since childhood turned into a stupid joke by some jackass writer who was bored and wanted to try something new.

Oh, and I HATE "Agents of Atlas" with a passion but you don't see me pissing all over anyone who praises them.

He's is not your character. He is not my character. As Neil Gaiman has put it, Rick Remender is not your ***** and will write whatever the hell he wants. Self-entitlement is the worst thing to stem from fanboyism.

Who says the Punisher does not jive with it? The stories are well written and the characteristics of the Punisher are still intact and this is coming from someone who is not the "typical superhero fan".

I hope Daredevil decides to fight space aliens and demons when the next writer comes on board.
 
He's is not your character. He is not my character. As Neil Gaiman has put it, Rick Remender is not your ***** and will write whatever the hell he wants. Self-entitlement is the worst thing to stem from fanboyism.

I hope Daredevil decides to fight space aliens and demons when the next writer comes on board.

That was well put and gave me pause -- so I give you props for that. However, every Punisher fan who is angry over "Frankencastle" has the right to be. I guess Remender has the right to write whatever he wants, but the braintrust at Marvel should have said no.

And my final point (which is all sarcasm): I'm going to become a writer at Marvel and break up the Fantastic Four, have Ben Grim and Spider-man team up as a criminal-killing vigilante team, turn ghost rider into a ghost, and finally, I'll have the x-men join with Magneto to commit acts of terrorism against humans. Then, I'll patiently sit back and wait until boards like the hype implode in anger and make a press statement that "I'm nobody's b****", that all of those characters had become stale and boring, and that everyone would like my stories if they just gave them a chance.

Again, I was being sarcastic to make a point. Don't get offended.
 
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Oh, and if nobody likes it, they can go read the Ultimate line. :cwink:
 
In the main Marvel Universe, The Punisher being the most dangerous man alive is nothing short of a joke. A really, really bad joke.



I like when writers are honest about it, instead of pondering to fans and passing their stuff off as something else. Reminds me when Morrison was writing X-Men (I think it was about that time) and he basically said to screw the old fans because they'll buy anything you do with the characters anyway, and focus on doing something different for other readers who aren't fans. People didn't react too well to that if I remember :o

Yeah, I totally agree with that and what Remender said. It's just the way he said it that came across as "not another friggin' fanboy asking the same boring question." Of course, I talked to him on a Sunday, the last day of the Con...so, I'm sure a lot of the artists and writers are just waiting for it all to be over.

And, I'm not sure about the two years of FrankenCastle...I just know in mid-March, he said about nine or so more issues. But, I can see if it's popular that he could probably make more. Anyone know if sales have gone up with the switch?
 

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