Rise of the Silver Surfer BOX OFFICE Discussion

[AVEITWITHJAMON]

Well think about it. They did the exact opposite with the second movie. They took that direction and pushed it even further.

I remember a QnA in Wizard magazine with Michael Chiklis. Point black they ask him if we are going to see any kind of cool tussle or fight between The Thing and Silver Surfer.

Chiklis's best response is that in the movie we will see a humorous exchange of powers between Torch and The Thing. Which really had nothing to do with the question that was asked.

But that's kind of the point. Not once in the movie did Silver Surfer ever get into it with Thing or really the FF in general. Thing should've tried to clobber him at least once.

EXACTLY! This is something that REALLY irked me in the movie, the FF didnt even try and take the Surfer down themselves. That was ridiculous IMO.

 

[Hiruu]

Tuesday estimates from BOM:

1. HP 5 - $ 9.19 mil ($ 159.321 mil)
2. TF - $ 4.75 mil ($ 233.7 mil)
4. Ratatouille - $ 2.91 mil ($ 148.432 mil)
5. Die Hard 4 - $ 1.49 mil ($ 106.233 mil)

11. FF 2 - $ 230,000 ($ 127.644 mil)

FF 2 has made $ 232.1 mil worldwide so far. Die Hard 4 has made $ 227.4 mil so far.

FF 1 made a cumulative total of about $ 60 mil in the foreign territories FF 2 has yet to be released in.

With the movie barely touching $130 million, it might make $300, since the international numbers are going very well. It still bringing in strong numbers, and with a 20-30% increase over FF's numbers, the prospects are high for the film. The weaker than expected results for the movie can be squarely laid at the feet of Fox and Story. The movie was too short, and I can only hope a LONGER and MORE COMPLETE product is delivered for FF3. Imho, they should go out with a bang...Fantastic Four: Galactus!

 

[Hiruu]

Well think about it. They did the exact opposite with the second movie. They took that direction and pushed it even further.

I remember a QnA in Wizard magazine with Michael Chiklis. Point black they ask him if we are going to see any kind of cool tussle or fight between The Thing and Silver Surfer.

Chiklis's best response is that in the movie we will see a humorous exchange of powers between Torch and The Thing. Which really had nothing to do with the question that was asked.

But that's kind of the point. Not once in the movie did Silver Surfer ever get into it with Thing or really the FF in general. Thing should've tried to clobber him at least once.

The movie lacked the eye-popping action of SM3, Transformers, Harry Potter (geesh), and it cost them. It's a summer action movie...give us action...The Doom-Boarding plot device jsut didn't work for me...it would given people something to come back wanting. They could have saved some money on the heli action scene, or the Big Wheel scene, and more on fighting...

 

[Iron Maiden]

It's posts like the one above, about the lack of fighting, that confirms my position that this is a person who would criticize the original conclusion to the FF's confrontation with Galactus in the comics....

 

[Ita-KalEl]

if this movie doesn't cross the 300m mark, you can say "good bye" to the sequel.

 

[I SEE SPIDEY]

Fantastic Four was also released in the midst of a competitive and crowded summer movie season. To me that's not a strong excuse.

They generally made the same movie as the first one without making any of the severe changes they promised they would. Just another mediocre disappointment and low-brow kiddie crap.

Just like Tomb Raider, they were lucky the first movie did as well as it did. They got lucky, (so did AVP that matter). Then they made a sequel, without making some dramatic improvements, and it does even worse.

Who cares about the critics? Believe it or not the studios and people who fund these things do.

When Spider-man 2 became one of the best reviewed movies of 2004, Sony didn't have this, "who cares about the critics, COME SEE OUR MOVIE ANYWAY!" attitude. They wore the reviews like a badge of honor and integrated them heavily into the post release marketing.

Well it didn't do nearly as poorly as TombRaider 2 so I really don't see the comparision.

TombRaider 131mil TombRaider 2 65mil. Thats a 50% drop from the first one.

FF 155mil FF2 127.6mil so far. Thats about a 17% drop so far from the first one.

You just can't compare the two...wait till The Incredible Hulk comes out it's likely to be a better comparision.

 

[I SEE SPIDEY]

if this movie doesn't cross the 300m mark, you can say "good bye" to the sequel.

Personally I think the sequel is already kaput, there just isn't going to be any real interest because the movies aren't good enough.

 

[YJ1]

if this movie doesn't cross the 300m mark, you can say "good bye" to the sequel.

It'll all come down to the DVD numbers. If FF2 sells as well as FF1, it'll be a HUGE money maker for Fox. If you want a FF3, BUY the DVD. I plan on buying plenty and giving them as Christmas gifts.

 

[Malus]

What you failed absorb from my earlier post was that this movie got far more positive reviews than FF1 and by posting this link you have helped prove my point, particularly if you read through all of the reviews. There were several that even liked FF 2 better than POTC and Spider-Man 3.

The reviews in general were much better.
2nd weekend drops happened across the board this summer. It happened to to everything, even the mighty "Transformers." Sure, FF2's domestic total is below its predecessor's and that's disappointing, but the domestic takes of POTC and Spidey 3 are also considerably below their predecessors, too. (we're just talking about significantly larger amounts to begin with.)
I think we're seeing a sea change in the psychology of moviegoing in this country. If a film isn't "this week's new thing" people are just not as keen to see it. People want the latest thing, and that's nothing new, but the ever-shrinking DVD window is making the wait for home viewing not seem so long. I know I take that into consideration, plus the fact that for less than it costs me to finally go see POTC3 (tickets, concessions, etc) I will be able to buy the DVD soon enough -with cash left over.
And many of my friends my age (43) especially those with kids, have expressed similar attitudes lately.
With the cost of gas and increasing prices on so many staple items at the grocery store, a lot of families are casting an increasingly wary eye towards the prospect of taking an SUV full of kids to the movies. My Mom & Dad carried thei4 4 grandchildren to Harry Potter yesterday, and they were out almost $90 by the time it was over. It costs a family of four at least $40 even for a "low frills" (i e limited concessions) trip to the movies. Most families are only going to make so many trips per summer at that price.

BTW, I would like to point out that one of their ratings is questionable, that being for Ebert/Roeper. I watched the show and while Roeper gave it a mild thumbs down, the sub for Ebert from the Village Voice gave it a thumbs up. In fact, he gave Roeper a good dressing down for saying the FF was always a lesser comic compared to Spider-Man and Batman.

Glad to hear that.
Whatever this franchise's shortcomings, the Lee/Kirby Fantastic Four is widely considered the gold standard for superhero comics. The FF were not the first superheroes, but their creation was the beginning of the closest thing the medium's ever had to a renaissance. No other book has ever come close to the creative explosion of ideas and characters that was classic FF. Much of the Marvel universe sprang from its pages, and without its success, there would never have been a Spider-man or an X-Men. This is something that many DC and Marvel junkies alike don't like to hear; that Lee & Kirby's Fantastic Four did it best and biggest and nothing since has come close.
All a matter of opinion, of course, but if you polled fans between 25 and 45 and most of today's creators as to their favorite comics, and on what has influenced their work the most, Lee/Kirby and the FF would come out on top.
That these movies have not been the most stunning superhero films ever made is a tragedy, and reason for sadness and rightous indignation.
The gloating we see from the trolls is just that. Most of them weren't rooting for this franchise in the first place and most have no idea what these films could have been.

As for those who say it's a terrible movie, I say "please".... I've seen "terrible" and this movie has a long way to go before you could say that. To me, a spiritually bankrupt movie like "Hostel" from the torture porn genre is far worse. Could it have been better? Yes... I won't disagree that a better paced ending sequence and a longer running time would have helped. Personally, I still rank it at a "B"

Agreed. (Personally, I gave it a "C")
From a lot of the negative posts, you'd think it was on the lowest rungs with "Batman & Robin" or "Catwoman."
It certainly is not.

I also find it amusing that those who loathe the movie can't seem to find better things to do with their time than to hang around this forum and complain.

Exactly.
When I have time to spend on the internet I find myself going more often to "The World's Greatest Comics Message Board" - Sure, there's disappointment over this film's performance there, but it's all from the perspective of FF fans.

The B.S. going on here is a waste of time and has been for weeks.

 

[Advanced Dark]

Personally I think the sequel is already kaput, there just isn't going to be any real interest because the movies aren't good enough.

I'm sure Fox is happy you don't work for them.

 

[highguard]

I have to disagree with your assessment about the Silver Surfer. When he first showed up, he was cold, unfeeling alien that apparently had no problem serving Galactus and helping to destroy perhaps many planets filled with living, and most likely, intelligent creatures. We have no idea how many he helped kill before Alicia stirred his conscience. That was Jack Kirby's original take on him, deliberately inscrutable and enigmatic. If he hadn't got clobbered and fell into Alicia's apartment, he would probably have continued serving Galactus.

Even the motive he reveals later on is selfish on closer scrutiny. Save one planet, and his lover, but in the meantime help destroy countless others.... and remember, he did pick out Earth as a target without bothering to check out the general population. If he was not exactly a villain, he certainly lacked guilt about his actions up until coming to Earth.

Good points IM.

One thing I would say though is that I think some of what you say adds to the argument for a two parter . You are correct about SS and yeah his motivations are not very noble when you think of it.

I recall that they tried to retcon his actions later on by suggesting that he would lead galactus to worlds barren of sentient life and as a result Galactus took away his humanity as the chow was starting to taste like paste.

Then when he regained it he reverted to taking Galactus to mainly uninhabited planets.

I think he and Nova had a conversation about this some time later when she became the herald.

Having said all that, the history of the SS is set, most people know he turned out not to be such a bad guy. Fox aiming for the kiddie market figured this was an irrelevant point for creating an antagonist (Smart People Fox) but to those who were around for part of the 40 years that is the history of the FF we know the real deal. The villain was always going to be Galactus but by the time the threat is revealed the movie is about done and his entrance (we need say no more) was brief and confusing.

So to us a two parter would have made more sense, just as it was done in the comic books.

They tried to cram all that story into 83 minutes by saying this is not a story about the coming of Galactus but the SS. I think that that is the decision that really hurt this movie and ultimately the franchise, and why, so that they could do a spinoff. They should learn not to count their chickens before they hatch. Elektra all over again.

Tell me do you think that the decisions they made worked for the BO.

The film was serviceable but we are FF fans, we love this stuff but looking at the love other franchises are getting from the masses (kids included) it is not too hard to see why FF is getting burned this summer.

Hindsight is 20/20 and in this case we know where all the bodies are buried.

 

[Carp Man]

It'll all come down to the DVD numbers. If FF2 sells as well as FF1, it'll be a HUGE money maker for Fox. If you want a FF3, BUY the DVD. I plan on buying plenty and giving them as Christmas gifts.

I think it will do big business on DVD. The 1st movie flew off the shelfs the 1st day. Forget CGI Thing. Leave CGI for The Hulk. Wait, after seeing the oversized Hulk in the 1st movie, a man in a suit, may not be a bad idea.

 

[Advanced Dark]

I think it will do big business on DVD. The 1st movie flew off the shelfs the 1st day. Forget CGI Thing. Leave CGI for The Hulk. Wait, after seeing the oversized Hulk in the 1st movie, a man in a suit, may not be a bad idea.

Carp...you're fired!!! A man in suit hulk film would be worse than Godzilla 1985.

 

[highguard]

.. Personally, I still rank it at a "B" ...

I am with you on that too, it is still one of the movies I would pay to see again. Heck I have never seen Harry Potter in the theater and I may or may not go to see transformers but most Marvel and DC comic book movies I will go to see just because that is the genre I support.

FF is the ticket for me, but in analyzing the BO which always tells a story in and of itself some things are becoming clear in that what Fox is doing with these franchises is almost criminal given their potential.

What Fox is doing feels almost like they are cheating and using deception to try to make enormous amounts of money whereas if they just sit down and look at how their films are bolting out of the gate they should see that if they just open their ears and listen the gravy train would pull up to their door and dump out mountains of cash.

 

[Agent 194]

Does anyone think Fox pulling out of Comic Con is an indication of trouble or disention within the company? How does this bode for our beloved FF sequel? Do you think our attitudes towards Fox are a small barometer for what others feel about them now?

For these and other questions...tune in again: Same Bat Time, Same Bat Channel

 

[Advanced Dark]

Does anyone think Fox pulling out of Comic Con is an indication of trouble or disention within the company? How does this bode for our beloved FF sequel? Do you think our attitudes towards Fox are a small barometer for what others feel about them now?

For these and other questions...tune in again: Same Bat Time, Same Bat Channel

They're probably just not ready or they don't think it's worth it...or both. This has no effect on FF3.

 

[highguard]

Agent I think they may not want to answer certain questions right now. And yeah they probably don't have the warmest relations with the comic book fans right now.

 

[Agent 194]

Those are my thoughts exactly. But what better time than to come and soothe feelings? I think it reflects badly.

 

[Kelly]

Does anyone think Fox pulling out of Comic Con is an indication of trouble or disention within the company? How does this bode for our beloved FF sequel? Do you think our attitudes towards Fox are a small barometer for what others feel about them now?

For these and other questions...tune in again: Same Bat Time, Same Bat Channel

Well if you look at their schedule....all 3 of their blockbusters will already be out by Comic Con.....The Simpsons will open during Comic Con.....Maybe they don't have anything ready with AVP 2.....

 

[Carp Man]

Wednesdays #'s are in. FF 2 $ 127,884,079 dom. $ 232,615,764 WW. TF's $ 238,202,379 dom. $ 384,859,662 WW. HP $ 167,738,316 dom. $ 360,738,316. All #'s thru 7-18.

 

[Iron Maiden]

Good points IM.

One thing I would say though is that I think some of what you say adds to the argument for a two parter . You are correct about SS and yeah his motivations are not very noble when you think of it.

I recall that they tried to retcon his actions later on by suggesting that he would lead galactus to worlds barren of sentient life and as a result Galactus took away his humanity as the chow was starting to taste like paste.

Then when he regained it he reverted to taking Galactus to mainly uninhabited planets.

I think he and Nova had a conversation about this some time later when she became the herald.

Now you do have to admit having a character in the movie called Frankie Raye was at least some tip of the hat to the Byrne run...

As for the Surfer's history past FF 150, where Mephisto plays both Doom and SS, I lose track of a lot of his history. But I would like to read that issue you refer to with Nova and their conflicts of conscience.

BTW, didn't Morg kill her? I know she re-emerged in many forms from the multiverses as a minion of Abraxas and she was quite bitter about Johnny.

Having said all that, the history of the SS is set, most people know he turned out not to be such a bad guy. Fox aiming for the kiddie market figured this was an irrelevant point for creating an antagonist (Smart People Fox) but to those who were around for part of the 40 years that is the history of the FF we know the real deal. The villain was always going to be Galactus but by the time the threat is revealed the movie is about done and his entrance (we need say no more) was brief and confusing.

So to us a two parter would have made more sense, just as it was done in the comic books.

They tried to cram all that story into 83 minutes by saying this is not a story about the coming of Galactus but the SS. I think that that is the decision that really hurt this movie and ultimately the franchise, and why, so that they could do a spinoff. They should learn not to count their chickens before they hatch. Elektra all over again.

Tell me do you think that the decisions they made worked for the BO.

The film was serviceable but we are FF fans, we love this stuff but looking at the love other franchises are getting from the masses (kids included) it is not too hard to see why FF is getting burned this summer.

Hindsight is 20/20 and in this case we know where all the bodies are buried.

I have always suspected from interviews published many months ago that this was not the Galactus trilogy, since Don Payne mentioned using "Ultimate Extinction" as a source for the story. I think the mistake they make is that Fox ... along with Marvel because never forget that Avi has a say in this... tend to throw in elements from the more recent series of works, namely the Heroes Reborn FF (which I kind of liked as a re-imagining of the early years of the FF) and the Ultimate version while trying to market it as the original. And maybe that's why I lack the outrage that some have towards the Galactus manifestation as a cosmic vortex and so forth. I've read a lot of alternate takes on the FF and judge them independantly from the Lee/Kirby run, which for me is frozen in time, inviolate and revered by true comic fans. Reminds me of a motto for a car dealership from years ago...."Often imitated, never duplicated" t:

 

[Carp Man]

Carp...you're fired!!! A man in suit hulk film would be worse than Godzilla 1985.

You know they talk about The Thing's size. When he was 1st drawn by Jack, he was man sized. He was not this big lumbering Hulk type. That came with the Ultimate series. He was not 7 feet tall, and as wide as 2 18 wheelers side by side when he was created. He was a man sized Thing. He looked like a man covered in rock, so to speak. When he was 1st drawn he was a blob. No shape, no form, but when he finally was drawn with human features, he was still man sized.

 

[Tony Stark]

I agree, the Thing needed to be man sized. I know Michael Chiklis said he didn't want to do the Thing if they made him CGI. The suit gave the human aspect of the Thing.

Perhaps you could do a suited Hulk the way they did Jeckl/Hyde in LXG, that came off pretty well. I also thought Ferrigno worked for the TV show, although that Hulk was way powered down from the comics. That Hulk wasn't even as strong as Spider-man. But for a TV show it worked well, and again showed there was still a human beneath the green skin.

I didn't mind the Hulk in the Ang Lee movie. Power wise it was right on with the comic. Remember that the Hulk is the strongest man in the Marvel Universe, with maybe only Juggernaut as someone who could match him strength wise.

The part where he catches the missle bites off the warhead and spits it out was classic Hulk. I just wish there was more of that stuff and less of the surreal music from Danny Elfman with angnst ridden Bruce "Krenzler" (WTF?)

 

[Agent 194]

is Krenzler the guy who ghosted Elfman? Whoever that was, was the one thta added the "surreal" music. It was different than other Elfman.

 

[Carp Man]

They orignaly wanted Michale to play the Ben Grimm part, and CGI The Thing. Michael said forget it. He wanted to play the thing. It had been a lifelong dream of his. I'm glad he got to do it, and thank heavens no CGI thing. t: The Hulk in the movie was not badley done but the matt paintings behind him. You could tell it was a matt and not live scenery. Bad merging of the 2.