Rise of the Silver Surfer BOX OFFICE Discussion

[Kelly]

Getting back to the topic, FF was pulled by Fox this last weekend. This is very very bad news for the future of the franchise. Most films will be given a 15 week run, FF was given 7 weeks. The first FF film had a 19 week run.

It also means that the film will come up just shy of covering it's production costs, domestically.

This is just too odd, and smaks that the studio just wanted to kill this project. Along with the sloppy marketing, pulling the ads the same week it was the no. 1 movie in the country.

Honestly my hope now is that Marvel can obtain the character rights, and the film rights and bring them in house ala Hulk. It can then distribute the films under it's new agreement with Paramount, who is now the no. 1 studio in market share.

Hasn't been completely pulled yet.....I just saw for the last time on the big screen today before I saw "Rescue Dawn" regular theatre....

BUT, I said weeks ago that FF 2 would not get near the run that the first movie got to get to its 330 million take. Its up to International, and its not going to bring in the 60-70 million more that these same regions brought in last time. I stand by my $285 million, and that is probably high. This does not bode well for a sequel, and being realistic, if you think they are waiting for the DVD sales, well coming out in October with the DVD will not bode as well as the December release in 2005.

Realism is setting in.....

 

[highguard]

Not a good day for the FF hype, not a good day. I hope that they have not pulled it. Let it go to dollar theaters, if they really pulled it before that it would be insane.

Where did the news of it being pulled come from. I am off to the internet to check.

 

[Kelly]

Not a good day for the FF hype, not a good day. I hope that they have not pulled it. Let it go to dollar theaters, if they really pulled it before that it would be insane.

Where did the news of it being pulled come from. I am off to the internet to check.

I didn't know that $ movies were counted in the screens. I don't think they are since movies don't open in these theatres...so it will probably go on to $ movie theatres, I just find these theatres in my area very dirty.

 

[Downhere]

I didn't know that $ movies were counted in the screens. I don't think they are since movies don't open in these theatres...so it will probably go on to $ movie theatres, I just find these theatres in my area very dirty.

The studios do get a part of the money from second tier theaters...as it is added to the gross of the film, usually during the end of a movie's run it will get a bump in cash from the "cheap" theaters, but it's not a great deal of money but not bad either.

 

[Kelly]

The studios do get a part of the money from second tier theaters...as it is added to the gross of the film, usually during the end of a movie's run it will get a bump in cash from the "cheap" theaters, but it's not a great deal of money but not bad either.

I didn't mean about the $$$$ I meant...are they counted in the theatre counts, as in....when they say a theatre has finished its run, does that mean the $ movies as well.....

 

[Advanced Dark]

What "global audience"? You mean the "global audience" that's raking in oh-so-huge dollars for the film that's featuring him front-and-center now? Yeah.

AD, you're forgetting that the Surfer's comic was never a huge seller. His fanbase is not significant. He is not an A-lister character for Marvel...and never has been. TRANSLATION: He's not enough to sustain a film series of his own. Let's be frank here: The true test of his appeal was with this film--he was clearly the dangling carrot FOX put before the media and moviegoing horses.

They didn't follow him.

Both this and the proposed Magneto spin-offs are two of the worst ideas that FOX has on board right now...just like I thought Elektra was a stupid idea 3 years ago. The studio doesn't undersand that people don't want to see these B and C-list comic characters by themselves--they want to see them in the ensembles that made them popular in the first place.

But folks never learn.

The film was released across the Globe for the masses whether it was successful or not. It's not being marketed to fanboys. It's a better bet for the studio but usually makes the film not as good as it could be. I agree with that. The big studios will always play it safe unless they've built up enough of an audience to take a bigger risk, or have a studio head and director who have the vision and mentality to make it right. Batman Begins, 300, Spider-Man, Sin City are all good examples of this. However some films should appeal to alot of people and should be made for larger audiences. Some films should also be geared towards younger audiences not only in content but runtime, etc...This will turn fanboys off and turn lots of little kids on. It's just part of the business. Not every film will be perfect, not every director is good, not every studio head makes the right decisions. Hell if every movie was perfect...nothing would stand out. There's lots of medicore films out there that are worth watching for entertainment but not much more...and then there are the awesome ones. Fantastic Four (original) was mediocre, and the sequel suffered for sure not only from the competition but from the negativity from the 1st film. Your comparison to Elektra makes no sense. If Fox makes a 80-100 million dollar Silver Surfer film it's not going to make only 33 million. It's not the kind of film that kids won't show up to.

I'm not defending Fox...I just recongize what they are and why they do things. All the *****ing in the world won't change that. Tim Story did a fine job with the sequel. Even if he does an awesome job on the 3rd film I think the high negativity would prevent him from being part of any future story arcs. That might result in a film that's even worse...or maybe we'll get lucky and the franchise will improve alot more.

Also I'm not forgetting the Surfer is not a huge seller in the comics. The SS is a very deep character that'll probably be over the heads of the young kids. Will Fox lighten it up to broaden the audience? Probably. Can it still a great film if they do that? Probably. Will it be a great translation true to the source in every way? We'll see. The problem with a film like the Surfer is the cost of making him come to life. It's not cheap. A Silver Surfer film would be a CGI Bonanza so they can't make it to cater to a tiny audience of Silver Surfer purists. In other words if you want to see the Surfer on screen then certain things will need to be sacrificed to warrant the budget required to make it. I think they can keep enough intact to make fanboys happy. I think the Surfer was done perfectly in the film despite what you thought of the movie as whole.

 

[Tony Stark]

Hasn't been completely pulled yet.....I just saw for the last time on the big screen today before I saw "Rescue Dawn" regular theatre....

BUT, I said weeks ago that FF 2 would not get near the run that the first movie got to get to its 330 million take. Its up to International, and its not going to bring in the 60-70 million more that these same regions brought in last time. I stand by my $285 million, and that is probably high. This does not bode well for a sequel, and being realistic, if you think they are waiting for the DVD sales, well coming out in October with the DVD will not bode as well as the December release in 2005.

Realism is setting in.....

My bad initially BO mojo showed it being pulled, they got their stats late or something. Well it's only showing on 390 screens nation wide.

 

[Lightning Strykez!]

The film was released across the Globe for the masses whether it was successful or not. It's not being marketed to fanboys. It's a better bet for the studio but usually makes the film not as good as it could be. I agree with that. The big studios will always play it safe unless they've built up enough of an audience to take a bigger risk, or have a studio head and director who have the vision and mentality to make it right. Batman Begins, 300, Spider-Man, Sin City are all good examples of this. However some films should appeal to alot of people and should be made for larger audiences. Some films should also be geared towards younger audiences not only in content but runtime, etc...This will turn fanboys off and turn lots of little kids on. It's just part of the business. Not every film will be perfect, not every director is good, not every studio head makes the right decisions. Hell if every movie was perfect...nothing would stand out. There's lots of medicore films out there that are worth watching for entertainment but not much more...and then there are the awesome ones. Fantastic Four (original) was mediocre, and the sequel suffered for sure not only from the competition but from the negativity from the 1st film.

You do realize though that this franchise has failed to do either of these things right? It pissed off the fanboys, it didn't satisfy the kids, and it annoyed critics and adults. Basically, all of the target audiences the studio was aiming for was missed.

In this franchise's case, I think sticking to the source material (which never portrayed the FF as a kiddie-boppper concept) was the only way to go. The films you mentioned (Sin City, 300, Batman Begins etc.,) clung to the core of what made the comics great. The result? Huge sales from ALL the demographics.

FOX underestimated the value of the FF comic history and its fans. It overthunk the concepts and reduced them to silly fanfare that didn't really fill anyone. Fans like me love it only out of loyalty to the comic and Marvel. Most people don't care that deeply--obviously.

Your comparison to Elektra makes no sense. If Fox makes a 80-100 million dollar Silver Surfer film it's not going to make only 33 million. It's not the kind of film that kids won't show up to.

Hmmph. Kids didn't show up to see him now--why would they do so later?

As you mentioned, The Silver Surfer is a deep, philosophical character. But FOX will dumb him down, make him stupid and "kid-friendly" just like they did here. And you have the same result. Another dead franchise, a la Daredevil, Elektra and...Fantastic Four. Notice a pattern here?

 

[Lightning Strykez!]

I just think it's interesting that lately FOX has been doing these microwaved, "Easy-Baked" CBMs only because comic book movies are a hot property--and they want to cash in on the craze. X3, Fantastic Four, Elektra, etc...all these movies (with their 4-6 month shooting schedules) have been thrown together--and then thrown at audiences. It's like the studio is gambling...not really sure if they have a winning hand or not. In other words, they have never cared about making good films, just cheap, rushed pieces of crap films to make money.

Now, they're not even making money.

 

[Carp Man]

Dude, I thought you worked for the Evil Empi-- I mean, Wal-mart.

I did. Doesn't change the fact that since Same passed away, Wal-Mart as far as its employees has gone downhill. They are at least trying now, but only because of all the negative publicity.

 

[Carp Man]

I didn't mean about the $$$$ I meant...are they counted in the theatre counts, as in....when they say a theatre has finished its run, does that mean the $ movies as well.....

The dollar theaters are not counted in the official movie counts. The one here is pretty nice. It's not one of those hole in the wall peep show theaters. 50 cents on Tuesdays. t: FF 2 is out of the multiplex, but not officially at the dollar theater yet.

 

[Carp Man]

My bad initially BO mojo showed it being pulled, they got their stats late or something. Well it's only showing on 390 screens nation wide.

When a movie gets this far down to the point where it only has a couple of hundred theaters, the studio does not report it's figures. They report when they get around to it.

 

[Sentinel X]

HP is ahead of the other 4 HP films for same # of days 19

HP $ 195.8 Ended $ 249.5
HP 2 $ 202.1 Ended $ 261.9
HP 3 $ 222.3 Ended $ 317.5
HP 4 $ 231.5 Ended $ 290.0
HP 5 $ 241.7 Ended ???????



It's $ 19.5 ahead of HP 3. HP 3 did not hit 241 till day 26, and ended with $ 976.4 WW. So will HP 5 beat TF's dom ? We'll see.

I think you are confusing HP1 with HP3...HP1 I know for show passed the 300 million dollar mark and got over 900 worldwide

This really pisses me off. For a while now (Kel pointed some things out that got me thinking) I've had this nagging feeling that FOX was simply using this franchise to establish Surfer. And now that she (the FF franchise) has turned her trick, they are dumping her like a bad ****e on the side of the street to die. And mark my words: Silver Surfer will bomb just as bad as Elektra...and then you'll have two franchises ruined.

God...There is zero integrity at that studio.

Yes, sadly thats what it seems like. I think that they wanted to give FF2 a chance but their top priority was to introduce Silver Surfer. Thats why I dont want to see a Silver Surfer film by FOX...they will screw it up like every other project they've ever had. They can improve FF3 but to just watch them gradually grasping their hands on a beloved charecter as the Silver surfer just pains me

 

[Carp Man]

You're right. HP 1 made $ 317.6 domestic.

OK. Looks like we have some estimated Monday #'s here :

TSM :


Domestic: $83,037,000 100.0%+ Foreign: n/a 0.0%= Worldwide: $83,037,000

53.8 % drop from Sunday.

HP :

Domestic: $244,864,000 35.0%+ Foreign: $454,000,000 65.0%= Worldwide: $698,864,000

$ 21.2 ahead of HP 1 domestically same # of days.

TF's :

Domestic: $286,212,000 53.4%+ Foreign: $249,468,071 46.6%= Worldwide: $535,680,071

 

[Spider-Fan]

I think you are confusing HP1 with HP3...HP1 I know for show passed the 300 million dollar mark and got over 900 worldwide


Yes, sadly thats what it seems like. I think that they wanted to give FF2 a chance but their top priority was to introduce Silver Surfer. Thats why I dont want to see a Silver Surfer film by FOX...they will screw it up like every other project they've ever had. They can improve FF3 but to just watch them gradually grasping their hands on a beloved charecter as the Silver surfer just pains me

Fact is, he is there though. Thus, I am hoping for the best right now. JMS' as the writer is a good step to me. As long as the SS movie is good, I don't care if it doesn't do well. Though that would probably kill any chance at FF3. FOX sucks though, I agree.

Here is hoping for great DVD sales

 

[Advanced Dark]

Hmmph. Kids didn't show up to see him now--why would they do so later?

As you mentioned, The Silver Surfer is a deep, philosophical character. But FOX will dumb him down, make him stupid and "kid-friendly" just like they did here. And you have the same result. Another dead franchise, a la Daredevil, Elektra and...Fantastic Four. Notice a pattern here?

Actually kids did show up. It's the adults that were turned off by the 1st film hence the PG rating this time around. Also I agree Daredevil and Elektra sucked but that's New Regency...Fox only distributed. And those characters are far from dead in the movie world. Marvel will get the rights back and start it over at some point. Hopefully as a Kingpin franchise.

 

[Spider-Fan]

Actually kids did show up. It's the adults that were turned off by the 1st film hence the PG rating this time around. Also I agree Daredevil and Elektra sucked but that's New Regency...Fox only distributed. And those characters are far from dead in the movie world. Marvel will get the rights back and start it over at some point. Hopefully as a Kingpin franchise.

Daredevil was good, and the DC is great. Now, Elektra is another story

I hope Marvel opts to make a sequel and not a reboot. The origin is done. Move on.

 

[Downhere]

Daredevil was good, and the DC is great. Now, Elektra is another story

Ditto, the DC cut of Daredevil was awesome and if that would have been the version released in theaters I'm sure it would have faired better with critics and box office prowess.

 

[highguard]

Fox really is not capable of delivering solid comic book films. They are obviously micromanaging the directors. They don't have the depth of knowlege about the properties but clearly seem shocked at how the hardcore fans seem to dislike their chopping and changing of characters.

Tim Story should have told them you really can't do this.

It explains a lot of what has gone on with these films, as LS said they are gambling. The Xmen series for all that singer did was not the comic book version and it is probably due to the fact that Fox does not support directors who might want to translate the material.

The one constant in all the fox films is that the characters and storylines are dreastically changed and those changes are not being driven by the creators but the suits.

As the Xmen writers said, on X3 for the second half of the movie they lost every battle.

That must be a hard environment to work under.

Now we know why Singer left. He probably had had enough.

Now Tim signed off on a DC movie, losers even before the box office was out on this one.

Seems like he needed a break. No doubt they are going to pin the tail on him and he will take the fall as Ratner did on X3.

I think it is becoming clear that Fox is a huge part of the problem with the under performances of these movies.

 

[TheVileOne]

Look how much the PG rating did NOT help this movie at all.

It made even less money than the first one.

 

[Carp Man]

Look how much the PG rating did NOT help this movie at all.

It made even less money than the first one.

YAWN.

 

[Carp Man]

Mondays actuals are in :

FF 2 :


Domestic: $129,817,462 54.6%+ Foreign: $108,158,151 45.4%= Worldwide: $237,975,613



TSM :

Domestic: $83,314,302 100.0%+ Foreign: n/a 0.0%= Worldwide: $83,314,302


TF's :

Domestic: $286,203,726 53.4%+ Foreign: $249,468,071 46.6%= Worldwide: $535,671,797


HP :

Domestic: $244,877,588 35.0%+ Foreign: $454,000,000 65.0%= Worldwide: $698,877,588

 

[Bishop2]

So close to breaking even domestically... which, sadly, is probably where it'll stop. I was really hoping for them to make at least 5 million above the cost of the film, which Ghost Rider at least pulled off.

 

[Lightning Strykez!]

YAWN.

Actually I agree with him.

Rating it PG only turned even more people off--and I said that was going to be the case from the get-go. Teens and adults have a certain stigmatism when it comes to PG-rated films that aren't animated. As soon as they announced that rating I was like, "They are really handicapping themselves now."

I think aside from lame post-release marketing scheme, the PG rating was the single worst move they made with this film's release.

 

[Spider–Man]

Actually I agree with him.

Rating it PG only turned even more people off--and I said that was going to be the case from the get-go. Teens and adults have a certain stigmatism when it comes to PG-rated films that aren't animated. As soon as they announced that rating I was like, "They are really handicapping themselves now."

I think aside from lame post-release marketing scheme, the PG rating was the single worst move they made with this film's release.

Yet another failure for Tom "Mr. Fantastic" Rothman!