Breaking News: Osama Bin Laden Is Dead! - Part 3

[Calvin]

I hope I'm not someone you're addressing with this. I am in no way shape or form a UBL sympathizer. If I had an opportunity to kill him, I would, in a mili-second. I have no problems whatsoever with this being a kill mission from its inception. If the SEALs raided his room and thought he posed a threat and took him down, fine. But the possibility that he was captured, then executed perturbs me.

That wouldn't perturb me in the least. I'm a pretty big pacifist for the most part, but if someone killed someone I cared about, revenge and justice take precedence. Osama did that to about 3000 people.

 

[redfirebird2008]

I don't really see this as being outside our own rule of law. Even though I think the idea of a "war on terror" is dumb, we definitely had a "war on osama" at the least, due to his actions of war against us. This was an act of war, so I don't really see how it's going against the US's rules of law.

The U.S. abides by the Geneva Convention, which laid down the law that you put a person on trial if they are captured alive. Bin Laden's daughter claimed that we captured him alive and then executed him on the spot without a trial. I think her account is sketchy at best. As Kel said, the mom probably told her to say it. But even if she is telling the truth, I simply don't give a damn in this particular case. Holding him in a U.S. prison would endanger the lives of American citizens, particularly overseas. Since we didn't keep him alive, Al Qaeda can't use his captivity as some kind of bargaining chip.

 

[dnno1]

He was living there for up to 6 years with his wives and kids! You honestly think he was going to pack on a c4 vest everyday just in case he gets raided? lol

This presumes that everybody knew that. In any case, the special forces were to prepare for the worse and that would be that he wouldn't want to surrender and that he might be armed in some way or booby trapped. If the guy did not raise up his hands and yell out that he surrendered, he would have to be treated as a combatant, and be fair game to kill. This silly argument that we should be humane with someone who is a combatant in a war because he was unarmed is just that. The executive order for the past ten years has been to capture or kill the guy. That means that either one would suffice.

 

[Marx]

I think the point some here are making is more about abiding by our own rule of law. Personally I don't give a hoot with this particular case. The bastard got what he deserved.

Well I think they were too nice to him. Should have buried his body in pig skin. Video tape it and show it to all his followers.

**** with us, and we will do this to you. No paradise for terrorists.

he got as much respect and compassion he deserved from the SEALs

In the world where the guy you didn't vote for accomplished taking him out. If Bush had done it, most of these guys wouldn't have made a peep. (and I know several people here are not republicans making the claim, I just mean several people)

agreed marx
for him to be buried at sea was more respect than he deserved, his body should've been thrown in a fireplace and then tossed in the garbage dump

I just think it's a bit crazy. I think some have forgotten that despite all of these years passing, we are still at war. Is it a conventional war? Absolutely not...but we are still at war. Bin Laden was an enemy combatant and there was no reason to believe he wasn't armed with something.

As far as an explosive vest? which there wasn't one, it was only a possiblity that was talked about probably along with many other possibilities.....why would have have to wear it 24/7 for the last 6 years?

According to some of the briefings he heard the commotion down stairs, he looked over the balcony, he was shot at, and was missed...

Why could he not have seen these guys coming, and simply putting it on? Or setting up whatever boobie trap that was set to go in a situation like this....

In these urban areas, these guys have run into ALL KINDS of boobie traps there was absolutely no reason why they might have run into some at the compound.....

I'm shocked that they didn't...

Me too Kel.

 

[Paroxysm]

In one or more of the videos he has put out over the years, through Al Jeezera....that is actually common knowledge, it has been talked about quite a bit over the years...

Talk is cheap. He probably says that to drum up support for terrorists, it's easier to get people to blow themselves up.

 

[Marx]

I hope I'm not someone you're addressing with this. I am in no way shape or form a UBL sympathizer. If I had an opportunity to kill him, I would, in a mili-second. I have no problems whatsoever with this being a kill mission from its inception. If the SEALs raided his room and thought he posed a threat and took him down, fine. But the possibility that he was captured, then executed perturbs me.

I have a very hard time believing that was the case.

 

[Calvin]

The U.S. abides by the Geneva Convention, which laid down the law that you put a person on trial if they are captured alive. Bin Laden's daughter claimed that we captured him alive and then executed him on the spot without a trial. I think her account is sketchy at best. As Kel said, the mom probably told her to say it. But even if she is telling the truth, I simply don't give a damn in this particular case. Holding him in a U.S. prison would endanger the lives of American citizens, particularly overseas. Since we didn't keep him alive, Al Qaeda can't use his captivity as some kind of bargaining chip.

I'll be honest, if war is happening, I throw the geneva convention out the window.

 

[Yurka]

That wouldn't perturb me in the least. I'm a pretty big pacifist for the most part, but if someone killed someone I cared about, revenge and justice take precedence. Osama did that to about 3000 people.

I agree, but wouldn't executing someone put us on the same level as them?

 

[Calvin]

I agree, but wouldn't executing someone put us on the same level as them?

By my count that's 1 to 3000+, so.... no.

 

[Matt]

Eh, I don't really care, I'd rather root for Obama to be less politically-motivated (and I think he's been less politically motivated than most presidents, to a fault in a sense, but I wish he'd just go the other way and say **** it, here's what's good for the country and I'm done compromising, which it kinda seems like he wants to). Either way, I don't really care too much about scoring political points, I don't think the other side has anyone legitimate to run this cycle, and even if he mishandles a bit of press on this, it's still good enough to be a major selling point in the election. And I don't think he's mishandling it that much anyway, it'll always seem bigger on boards arguing about it. To the general public, it still looks pretty good, as evidenced by that poll Kell posted in the other thread.

I disagree, everything that Obama has done since entering office has been purely political (he's just not that good at it), IMO. But that is a discussion for the Obama thread I suppose.

In the world where the guy you didn't vote for accomplished taking him out. If Bush had done it, most of these guys wouldn't have made a peep. (and I know several people here are not republicans making the claim, I just mean several people)

By he same merit, most of the people praising Obama the loudest would be up in arms if Bush did the same thing.

 

[Kelly]

Talk is cheap. He probably says that to drum up support for terrorists, it's easier to get people to blow themselves up.

Maybe, maybe not.....but that is what he said, so that is what they build their possibilities around when planning things like this...

His words are fact, what he meant by them is speculation....they don't build scenarios with speculation, the build them with facts.....so when coming up with a plan, because of these words he has spoken, they have to make sure that the plan includes this possibility, and if in fact he was planning that, then the safety of the military is questionable.

Now, we now know from the Seals that he was quite cowardly.....they only had his words before....

It's very easy for us to play Monday morning quarterback....but when they are planning the different scenarios, they consider ALL POSSIBILITIES...that is why they are as good as they are.

In situations like this...with your attitude: "Meh, he probably didn't mean it..." could get them killed....

 

[SpideyVille]

That wouldn't perturb me in the least. I'm a pretty big pacifist for the most part, but if someone killed someone I cared about, revenge and justice take precedence. Osama did that to about 3000 people.

I don't think anyone really has an issue with him being killed, because, as you point out, he deserved it. However, what I believe Yurka is saying is that we are being led to believe that he posed an immediate threat to the SEALS and was shot and killed because of that. But if he actually captured first and then executed, then its more like we killed him in a defenseless state just for the sake of killing him. In that case, it seems a little off because we had him captured and instead of interrogating him or putting him on trial like we did with Saddam, we took it into our own hands to avoid all of that.

 

[Marx]

Michael Moore is on Piers Morgan Tonight saying that Bin Laden was executed and should have been put on trial instead. He also condemned the people who celebrated Bin Laden's death.

 

[Paradoxium]

I think they should start burying terrorists with dead pigs. It's a deterrent. Broadcast it as well.

It's BEEN DONE BEFORE IN HISTORY.

In 1911, as attempts were made to disarm the Mohammedans, cotta warfare began to flame anew and the juramentados redoubled their efforts to get to close grips with the American soldiers. Jolo, the Moro capital, in American hands, was almost under a state of siege. It was under constant attack on the part of individual fanatics. One Moro penetrated the city walls through a drain and killed seven soldiers in the streets of Jolo before he was dropped by volley fire of the troops.

For trading purposes, 100 Moros were allowed within the city wall at one time. They were disarmed and searched at the gates by squads of soldiers, and all guard posts mounted four sentries. With all of these precautions, juramentados succeeded in running their crazed course at dreadful, frequent intervals. It was Colonel Alexander Rodgers of the 6th Cavalry who accomplished by taking advantage of religious prejudice what the bayonets and Krags had been unable to accomplish. Rodgers inaugurated a system of burying all dead juramentados in a common grave with the carcasses of slaughtered pigs. The Mohammedan religion forbids contact with pork; and this relatively simple device resulted in the withdrawal of juramentados to sections not containing a Rodgers. Other officers took up the principle, adding new refinements to make it additionally unattractive to the Moros. In some sections the Moro juramentado was beheaded after death and the head sewn inside the carcass of a pig. And so the rite of running juramentado, at least semi-religious in character, ceased to be in Sulu. The last cases of this religious mania occurred in the early decades of the century. The juramentados were replaced by the amucks. .. who were simply homicidal maniacs with no religious significance attaching to their acts.

 

[Zack Snyder]

There is a certain way they bury their people by tradition. Throwing him into the sea isn't it. Regardless of what happened. The view over there is probably the US and teammate Israel, killed many more than what happened from 911. 911 was nothing compared to the deaths they have experienced every day

 

[DACrowe]

SEALs are trained to follow orders. If they were told to take him alive, they could have taken him alive. Especially since only one of the hostiles was armed. They were told to bring back a body. From the second that they raided the compound, the death of Bin Laden was the only option. I have little doubt that their mission was to kill. Based on the fact that he said that he ordered the mission, I have to think that the order to kill came from the President of the United States. I can understand why it was done. But its becoming obvious now that the SEAL team was sent in to kill Bin Laden.

Obama should just acknowledge that he ordered the SEAL team to kill Bin Laden due to the dangerous nature of the mission. No one but people who will never vote for him anyway would hold it against him. Most would acknowledge that it was a smart move.

Otherwise, he and his team will continue to dance around it, make little slip ups, continue to contradict themselves as new evidence comes to light, and eventually the truth will come out and it will be an embarrassment not only for the administration but for our country as a whole.

You forget that under international law the POTUS cannot say he ordered a "take no prisoners" assassination mission. Everyone knows this was a "kill order" that maybe had a "if they throw up their hands, take them alive" rule.

But no one is upset about this. Left, right, and moderate mainstream media is not going to probe this too deeply and other than some far left and right Internet blog chatter and angry comments in the Middle East (or any obscure anti-American publications)....no one will make a big deal out of this. All the WH has to do is say, "If he held up his hands we would have taken him alive" and the story ends there. You can bet none of the SEALs are going to come out talking to the press.

It's not like they have someone in the administration who would just say, "We were there to kill him no matter what," because that's either not true or nobody cares if it isn't. Right now cable news is talking about "legality" to fill airtime, but as far as the government is concerned, the story's details ended today when the POTUS went to Ground Zero.

Meanwhile a missile landed on a car with two al-Qaeda terrorists in it in Yemen. Is that a coincidence? I have my doubts.

 

[DACrowe]

SEALs are trained to follow orders. If they were told to take him alive, they could have taken him alive. Especially since only one of the hostiles was armed. They were told to bring back a body. From the second that they raided the compound, the death of Bin Laden was the only option. I have little doubt that their mission was to kill. Based on the fact that he said that he ordered the mission, I have to think that the order to kill came from the President of the United States. I can understand why it was done. But its becoming obvious now that the SEAL team was sent in to kill Bin Laden.

Obama should just acknowledge that he ordered the SEAL team to kill Bin Laden due to the dangerous nature of the mission. No one but people who will never vote for him anyway would hold it against him. Most would acknowledge that it was a smart move.

Otherwise, he and his team will continue to dance around it, make little slip ups, continue to contradict themselves as new evidence comes to light, and eventually the truth will come out and it will be an embarrassment not only for the administration but for our country as a whole.

You forget that under international law the POTUS cannot say he ordered a "take no prisoners" assassination mission. Everyone knows this was a "kill order" that maybe had a "if they throw up their hands, take them alive" rule.

But no one is upset about this. Left, right, and moderate mainstream media is not going to probe this too deeply and other than some far left and right Internet blog chatter and angry comments in the Middle East (or any obscure anti-American publications)....no one will make a big deal out of this. All the WH has to do is say, "If he held up his hands we would have taken him alive" and the story ends there. You can bet none of the SEALs are going to come out talking to the press.

It's not like they have someone in the administration who would just say, "We were there to kill him no matter what," because that's either not true or nobody cares if it isn't. Right now cable news is talking about "legality" to fill airtime, but as far as the government is concerned, the story's details ended today when the POTUS went to Ground Zero.

Meanwhile a missile landed on a car with two al-Qaeda terrorists in it in Yemen. Is that a coincidence? I have my doubts.

 

[Kelly]

Michael Moore is on Piers Morgan Tonight saying that Bin Laden was executed and should have been put on trial instead. He also condemned the people who celebrated Bin Laden's death.

Way to go Piers....your show just lost all credibility....

 

[Kelly]

You forget that under international law the POTUS cannot say he ordered a "take no prisoners" assassination mission. Everyone knows this was a "kill order" that maybe had a "if they throw up their hands, take them alive" rule.

But no one is upset about this. Left, right, and moderate mainstream media is not going to probe this too deeply and other than some far left and right Internet blog chatter and angry comments in the Middle East (or any obscure anti-American publications)....no one will make a big deal out of this. All the WH has to do is say, "If he held up his hands we would have taken him alive" and the story ends there. You can bet none of the SEALs are going to come out talking to the press.

It's not like they have someone in the administration who would just say, "We were there to kill him no matter what," because that's either not true or nobody cares if it isn't. Right now cable news is talking about "legality" to fill airtime, but as far as the government is concerned, the story's details ended today when the POTUS went to Ground Zero.

Meanwhile a missile landed on a car with two al-Qaeda terrorists in it in Yemen. Is that a coincidence? I have my doubts.

I believe that only goes for "Heads of State", as far as assasinations...

 

[Zack Snyder]

It's not just that they killed him, taking away the burial tradition will piss some muslims off.

 

[Calvin]

I disagree, everything that Obama has done since entering office has been purely political (he's just not that good at it), IMO. But that is a discussion for the Obama thread I suppose.




By he same merit, most of the people praising Obama the loudest would be up in arms if Bush did the same thing.

I think he's been caught in a crappy area of in between being political and doing what he wants to do. I've not been happy with it either. But I'm nowhere near as unhappy with it as I was with the purely political and purely self serving and purely deceptive 8 years that went on before that. I've been disappointed that he hasn't stuck to his guns, but I at least like that I still feel like he deep down wants to stick to his guns, even though he hasn't. I think he's done some things that have stuck to his guns, but not as much as what everyone was hoping for that voted for him, so he's gotten a lot of flack from the left. The reality is that it's a first term, and I'm sure he's under a ton of pressure from his people to try to hit a middle ground in order to insure a second term. My hope is that if he gets a second term, he'll finally go full bore on what he believes. Either way, I'd rather have a guy that believes in something good get runover a bit, as opposed to someone that believes in a bunch of sh**y stuff getting his way. Fingers crossed on him getting his balls once he gets into his second term (which I'd worry about if the other team didn't have such crappy players). I still believe that he's got the stuff deep down, he just needs to find it and stop worrying about what everyone around him thinks.

 

[Marx]

Way to go Piers....your show just lost all credibility....

Well, to be fair...Piers is taking him to task over it.

 

[roach]

There is a certain way they bury their people by tradition. Throwing him into the sea isn't it. Regardless of what happened. The view over there is probably the US and teammate Israel, killed many more than what happened from 911. 911 was nothing compared to the deaths they have experienced every day

actually muslim tradition does allow for a burial at sea....a muslim chaplain attended to his body in their tradition and buried him in accordance with their customs

 

[Kelly]

It's not just that they killed him, taking away the burial tradition will piss some muslims off.

They did bury him according to Muslim tradition....they actually did extensive research on it....

 

[Marx]

It's not just that they killed him, taking away the burial tradition will piss some muslims off.

They looked into his burial arrangements pretty deeply as I understand it. Burial at sea does not conflict with the muslim faith.