The Dark Knight Bruce and Rachel in TDK (Spoilers or Possible Spoilers)

[wikum]

i'm guessing it will work well in the third film. rachel becomes stuck in the middle of her love (two-face) and her closest friend (batman).

thats if ol' j man doesn't crowbar her in the chops.

 

[sasquatchs]

A love triangle would completely go against the spirit of the Begins finale. Instead I'd like some sort of struggle for Rachel between supporting Dent and her loyalty to Bruce. Her knowing he's Batman, Dent working with Batman and possibly not liking Bruce and Bruce involved with both is the makings of a good dynamic

 

[Baba Ghanoush]

Bruce is a cold dude. He feels something for her, he just can't say he does b/c he doesn't know how to.

That's the way I saw it. But yeah....she said she loved him, so one would think she'd have the harder time to get over it, while Bruce will do what he's done his whole life. Keep moving.

If she's hooking up with Dent, automatically there's a triangle b/c of her past with Bruce, though. He doesn't have to make out with her for there to be a triangle, b/c we already know what's up with those two.

I agree with this observation. Wayne has always been distant, the outsider, and emotionally stunted. You get an idea of this during this exchange in BB:

Alfred: "You don't like it there?"
Wayne: "I like it fine, they just don't feel the same way."

 

[Carnotaur3]

Bruce and Rachel ended their relationship mutually at the end of BB. I don't see why Dent and Rachel get together is a problem.

 

[itsthebatman]

Bruce and Rachel ended their relationship mutually at the end of BB. I don't see why Dent and Rachel get together is a problem.

It was more mutual on Rachels side. He accepted it, but actually wanted to start it now she knew who he really was.

 

[sasquatchs]

It was more mutual on Rachels side. He accepted it, but actually wanted to start it now she knew who he really was.

I've never thought of it that way before, seems more appropriate to me that Bruce would do the I can't be with you till this is over bit. To me Bruce didn't even consider more than friendship through Begins, maybe my eyes just glazed over in those scenes.

 

[itsthebatman]

I've never thought of it that way before, seems more appropriate to me that Bruce would do the I can't be with you till this is over bit. To me Bruce didn't even consider more than friendship through Begins, maybe my eyes just glazed over in those scenes.

Just watch that scen again. Subtly played, but that's what i took from it.

 

[360sculptguy]

I think that there could be room for something more developing on Bruce's end of the relationship. I agree that their relationship seemed tied up pretty tightly at the end of Begins but things are evolving in Gotham and the stresses on Batman are growing as well. Wayne must continue to have two personalities, neither of which is completely him. No one he interacts with, except Alfred and maybe Fox, knows who he really is. Fox isn't personal with Wayne, just trusted to be in the loop. Alfred can only offer so much to Bruce. Its the difference between getting support from your father or grandfather and getting support from your best friend (Rachel). The combination of that best friend being your only friend and then female as well can make things complicated to say the least. She is the only one that knows everything he is about. With her none of his life would have to be theater. I see him placing tremendous importance in those moments. Almost his only escape. As things get increasingly more stressful as Batman he is going to need someone other than Alfred to keep him sane. I could see the writers working that angle, cultivating his reliance on her, bordering on romantic, maybe some jealous moments of the time she spends with Dent, and then... bang. Someone kills her. Or savagely beats her within an inch of her life. I think that could be enough to do it. Death is obviously powerful, but sometimes, in comics, the savageness of taking someone nine tenths of the way there and leaving them alive can be huge. It leaves the victim, and everyone who holds them to be important, with the every day reminder of the violation. That reminder can fester and rot forever.

 

[The Batman]

I thought it was made clear in BB that Bruce was actually saddened by the fact that he couldnt be with rachel

In fact, in the BB movie guide which has excerpts of the screenplay that was used for the film, it describes bruces reaction as "heartbroken"

 

[The Batman]

They were more than friends. They're relationship is downplayed incredibly, even in the film itself. But, by the end of the film....it was clear that before Bruce had left Gotham, they had a relationship beyond friendship. Seemed like they were childhood sweethearts. Teen sex and all.

In what scenes? I'm not disagreeing, but i just wanna know how. I agree that there's more going on between Bruce and Rachel than fanboys would like to admit

 

[Crook]

I thought it was made clear in BB that Bruce was actually saddened by the fact that he couldnt be with rachel

In fact, in the BB movie guide which has excerpts of the screenplay that was used for the film, it describes bruces reaction as "heartbroken"

You could also tell just by looking at Bale when Holmes says the "the man I loved, never came back at all" line.

Pretty funny actually. He was like "now that she knows, we can finally be----wait, what?!? why? no, this cannot be!"

 

[The Batman]

You could also tell just by looking at Bale when Holmes says the "the man I loved, never came back at all" line.

Pretty funny actually. He was like "now that she knows, we can finally be----wait, what?!? why? no, this cannot be!"

yeah...its actually pretty obvious that bruce thought he was gonna get some action...

"Batman's just a symbol, Rachel" Why would he say something like that if he was just friends with her?

 

[Steelsheen]

why is it that all chicks Bruce gets serious with knows that he's Batman?

its just a little pet peeve, but it kinda renders the secret ID thing useless.

 

[The Guard]

I thought the Bruce/Rachel relationship was one of the most poorly developed aspects of BATMAN BEGINS. If they're serious about these two ending up together, despite what happened at the end of BEGINS, they need to give it some serious development.

 

[The Kid]

yeah...its actually pretty obvious that bruce thought he was gonna get some action...

"Batman's just a symbol, Rachel" Why would he say something like that if he was just friends with her?

The romance aspect wasn't expressed very well if that was the intention. I guess we can say "I guess he wants rachel" just not have a lot of ground to base it on.

Think peter and Mj in spidey 1. That was obviously more romantic than the rachel/bruce relationship. I thought it was stupid for him to reject mj since the whole point of a secret identity is to keep his personal life secret, keep it safe, young frodo.

Well all I saw from my perspective was rachel saying that maybe when gotham doesn't need super heros, that she'll want to be with him. Made as much sense to me as peter rejecting mj honestly. I don't get why it seems every movie superhero has to have a peter pan complex.

edit: though I understand batman's all about the mission.

 

[Crook]

why is it that all chicks Bruce gets serious with knows that he's Batman?

its just a little pet peeve, but it kinda renders the secret ID thing useless.

The stupid thing is they could've gone a totally different way with it. I don't know if it was because they thought it'd be too similar to SM1's ending, but having the hero consciously withhold his secret from a loved one, knowing that it will get in the way of a relationship, just screams Batman.

 

[Yurka]

yeah...its actually pretty obvious that bruce thought he was gonna get some action...

"Batman's just a symbol, Rachel" Why would he say something like that if he was just friends with her?

haha thats exactly what I thought when I watched it.

 

[The Kid]

The stupid thing is they could've gone a totally different way with it. I don't know if it was because they thought it'd be too similar to SM1's ending, but having the hero consciously withhold his secret from a loved one, knowing that it will get in the way of a relationship, just screams Batman.

Mask of the phantasm really captured this well, I thought.

bruce at his parents grave begging for a chance to be happy. Wow.

 

[itsthebatman]

yeah...its actually pretty obvious that bruce thought he was gonna get some action...

"Batman's just a symbol, Rachel" Why would he say something like that if he was just friends with her?

He should have followed up with 'It's Bruce Wayne who's trying to get into your pants.'

 

[Crook]

Mask of the phantasm really captured this well, I thought.

bruce at his parents grave begging for a chance to be happy. Wow.

I think that's the only time I've ever really felt satisfied with a hero wanting to give up his dual identity. Maybe it was just the set-up, or how vulnerable it made Bruce, but this:

[At Bruce's parents' grave]
Bruce Wayne: It doesn't mean I don't care anymore. I don't want to let you down, honest, but... but it just doesn't hurt so bad anymore. You can understand that, can't you? Look, I can give money to the city - they can hire more cops. Let someone else take the risk, but it's different now!
[thunder and lightning]
Bruce Wayne: Please! I need it to be different now. I know I made a promise, but I didn't see this coming. I didn't count on being happy.
[thunder and lightning]
Bruce Wayne: Please! Tell me that it's okay.
Andrea Beaumont: [enters] Maybe they already have. Maybe they sent me.
[They embrace in the rain]

....almost made my eyes tear.

 

[The Kid]

He should have followed up with 'It's Bruce Wayne who's trying to get into your pants.'

This still bothers me honestly.

batman shouldn't just brush himself aside like that and say he's just a symbol... it's his curse, his destiny, far beyond a symbol. Then rachel needs to tell him this, again since she knows his entire motivation for being batman more than he does. She should have slapped him again.

 

[The Kid]

I think that's the only time I've ever really felt satisfied with a hero wanting to give up his dual identity. Maybe it was just the set-up, or how vulnerable it made Bruce, but this:

[At Bruce's parents' grave]
Bruce Wayne: It doesn't mean I don't care anymore. I don't want to let you down, honest, but... but it just doesn't hurt so bad anymore. You can understand that, can't you? Look, I can give money to the city - they can hire more cops. Let someone else take the risk, but it's different now!
[thunder and lightning]
Bruce Wayne: Please! I need it to be different now. I know I made a promise, but I didn't see this coming. I didn't count on being happy.
[thunder and lightning]
Bruce Wayne: Please! Tell me that it's okay.
Andrea Beaumont: [enters] Maybe they already have. Maybe they sent me.
[They embrace in the rain]

....almost made my eyes tear.

I'm so watching that movie again now.

 

[itsthebatman]

This still bothers me honestly.

batman shouldn't just brush himself aside like that and say he's just a symbol... it's his curse, his destiny, far beyond a symbol. Then rachel needs to tell him this, again since she knows his entire motivation for being batman more than he does. She should have slapped him again.

I dunno. Bruce didn't know it was going to be a never-ending quest when he became Batman - he thought it would just be a mission, not a crusade. In some of the Year One stories he does talk about how he sees the end in sight (the last page of New Years Eve from The Long Halloween, as I recall). Now, you may say this is naivete on Bruce's part, but that's the point - he was driven, but not always obsessed, and didn't know at the start what it would take. He didn't know he'd be fighting a new breed of ciminal. Excalation, etc.
The Mask of the Phantasm scene is fantastic. I would love a graveside scene in TDK.

 

[Golgo-13]

Now that we have reports that Dent and Rachel may have a relationship in TDK, what do people think about a love triangle between Bruce, Dent, and Rachel?

IMO, I dont think just because he had to give her up for the mission that it means hes over her, or that Rachel is over him. Hopefully, the chemistry between Christian and Maggie is better than what Christian had with Katie

I don't want there to be a love triangle in TDK ala Harry-Peter and MJ in the Spiderman films. Bruce Wayne is a playboy dedicated to eradicting Gothams streets of crime. I don't want Bruce whining like a love sick puppy dog like Peter Parker..after a while that aspect of the Spiderman films became extremely annoying. Leave in out of TDK Nolan.

 

[The Kid]

I dunno. Bruce didn't know it was going to be a never-ending quest when he became Batman - he thought it would just be a mission, not a crusade. In some of the Year One stories he does talk about how he sees the end in sight (the last page of New Years Eve from The Long Halloween, as I recall). Now, you may say this is naivete on Bruce's part, but that's the point - he was driven, but not always obsessed, and didn't know at the start what it would take. He didn't know he'd be fighting a new breed of ciminal. Excalation, etc.
The Mask of the Phantasm scene is fantastic. I would love a graveside scene in TDK.

I like the crusade idea better. I have to say I agree with Schumacher then. It's areally a wound that won't heal.

Hook a mind-reading device to bruce wayne and you'll get nothing but Bats flying around.

I love that mystical aspect to batman. As if he's becoming more inhuman the more he descends into the monster he has created after his parent's death.

The tragedy will come into play perhaps when Rachel recognizes bruce will NEVER be someone who could ever fully love and support her.