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Buffy the Vampire Slayer and Angel the Vampire

Which Was Your Favorite Season?

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Yeah Spike said a great line in my all time faorite episode of him and Angel fighting for the shanshu.


"Dru sired me, but you made me a monster."
 
3 real theories here;

1. Vamps use the term 'sire' not just to indicate the vamp that sired them but in terms of a continued bloodline, Angelus sired Dru and Dru sired Spike so what Spike is saying is that he's practically family

2. Vamps use 'sire' in a broader term like 'brother', 'father figure' or 'mentor'

3. Spike lies a lot. Hush is referring to the Buffy ep 'Fool for love', in School Hard we hear Spike tell Buffy that the last Slayer he killed begged for her life but in Fool for Love we see she didn't

Inca Mummy Girl.

The Good;
Another doomed romance for Xander with a demon/older woman. Will's lovely Eskimo outfit and the first appearance of Oz and Devon, the first of Jonathon since the pilot. Buffy's identification with Ampata is lovely. A good enough ep but not a great one. Xanders as a cowboy from the country of Leone

The Bad;
Nothing really bad here, just a little lacking in sparkle

Best line;
Oz; What impresses me in a girl involves a feather boa and the theme from a summer place (the mind boggles but I'm sure it's been covered in fanfic).

Questions and observations;
The only ep in season 2 with no Angel in it whatsoever. No Jenny either. The cordettes are back but no Harmony. The mummy's way of killing people is reminiscent of an extremely so bad it's brilliant British sci-fi horror film called Lifeforce. We discover that Xander can drive and that he is aware of Willow's crush on him (which makes him turning her down all the more cruel). How does the mummy know to call Ampata's name at the bus station? Ampata shares Buffy's room, what about the one Dawn will eventually inhabit? Willow plays with a toy frog although it's later established that she fears real ones. This marks the beginning of Willow deciding to try for boys other than Xander. Buffy comments that one day Giles will have to get a proper car and indeed he does. Does Amapata have to drain people totally? Couldn't she just take little bits of Lifeforce so she doesn't kill anyone?
4/10
 
Thanks guys, I guess that makes more sense now. Oh and Riley just left where I am in the series and its so nice, I hated that **** so much. He became a waste in the 5th season and i'm glad he was ousted. I also knew there was something up with Ben!
 
Thanks guys, I guess that makes more sense now. Oh and Riley just left where I am in the series and its so nice, I hated that **** so much. He became a waste in the 5th season and i'm glad he was ousted. I also knew there was something up with Ben!

Riley wasn't a bad guy as future eps will show you. As for Ben, well you were one up on me, I thought he was just the new love interest

Reptile Boy;

The Good;
Buffy slumping her head onto the table. Willow's rant at Giles and Angel. Cordy and Buffy getting all hot-to-trot for the party. Queen C's driving skills. Jonathon! On a date with Cordy no less. Buffy pouting (Giles her father figure more than ever)

The Bad;
The endings a bit cheery considering the fate of all those poor girls over the years, just like the disappearing corpses in The Harvest. You utterly cringe at the misogyny of the Frat boys. What exactly do the Sunnydale police make of the demon's body?

Best Line;
Buffy (to Angel)"When you kiss me I want to die"

Questions and observations;
Buffy and Cordy go illicitly to a party with a bunch of older guys, pass out through drinking and end up in chains being menaced by a huge snake. Or what the girls at my old school used to call 'Saturday night'. (Apologies to the writers of Friends). Seriously though I was beginning to think I was seeing sexual subtext where there was none but upon listening to David Greenwalt's DVD commentary it's clear that's exactly what was intended. Xander also tries his hand at cross-dressing.
Another point for bisexual Will, she seems to fancy the frat boys. You wonder if Mayor Wilkins was a member of the fraternity?
An OK ep but not the best, I'll give it 6/10 but that might be a little generous
 
Lorenzo, you don't understand my hate for Riley runs deep.
 
I agree Riley wasn't a bad guy, he was probably one of the nicest on the show in fact. But he was easily the least interesting main character by some distance.
 
Never said he was a bad guy, just a waste in Season 5.
 
Joss himself has said that Riley is essentially Gary Cooper and Gary Cooper just doesn't work in the Buffyverse (ironically of course Gary Cooper was a notorious womaniser, interesting when you think of Riley's tryst with the vamp****es). Riley is a Superman style character whilst Buffy is more Batman with a sense of fun. Much like Connor in Angel he's a lot more likeable as a guest star than a regular

Halloween

The Good;
Pretty much everything, great ep, love the alternate Scoobies, the Xena ref, the first appearance of Ethan and Ripper, the fight in the pumpkin stall at the beginning, Dru and Spike back, Oz, Larry, Cordy in her pussycat costume, Willow getting 'Sexy and Wild' (love her strutting at the end, do you think she got any offers?) the list goes on. Buffy unknowingly impersonating Darla and fainting (but at least she doesn't get tied up) and clinging onto Cordy's arm

The Bad;
Open to suggestions?

Best line;
Hard to pick but I'd say;
Willow "She couldn't have gone as Xena?
Just pipping Giles' "The ghost of what exactly?" upon seeing Will's streetwalker outft and "You went mental when?" from Cordy

Questions and observations:
Willow appears to be a Xena fan. Hmmmmm? Of course Xena started a couple of years before Buff and without it I don't think we'd have had Buffy. In one ep they refer to the play Buffus the Bachae Slayer. You could say that Spike's fascination with Buffy is evident in his watching the video of her fighting. Love Willow walking through the wall and people's reaction to it. The long tracking shot of Xander transforming into Rambo. Where are Joyce and Dawn during all of this? Either he reloads offscreen or Xander's rifle has a limitless magazine. Another hint of attraction between Cordy and soldier Xander. Angel wears a blue shirt which is ok but not really him. The Summers house get's trashed for the first time. How does the vamp Angel fights in the kitchen get in without being invited? First appearance of SDH's famous soda machine. Buffy get's sexually assaulted AGAIN, mauled by Pirate Larry (who really musn't be himself considering what we learn later). We discover that Cordy doesn't know Angel is a vamp. Xander tells Cordy she'll never get between Buffy and Angel, well almost. Giles tortures Ethan for info, the Scoobies really seem to have a knack for it. Reputedly Joss fired the writer of this ep afterwards, don't know why he did a good job?

10/10 afters a couple of false starts season 2 firing on all cylinders
 
Lie to Me;

The Good;
The central story is very strong and it makes great fun of all the vampfans out there (Twilight lovers I'm talking to you ). The scene with Dru and the kid in the playground is scary as hell . First appearance of Chantrelle/Lily/Anne and she's great. Angel in the vamp club is hilarious. Ingenious the way Buffy defeats Spike and co, once again you see that this girl has brains and guile and not just looks and brawn. Adore the Angel/Will scene, her hiding her undies and telling him she's not allowed boys in her room. Willow finally realising what the Divinyls song 'I touch myself' is really about (you know if that had been sung by a guy they'd have never played it on the radio). Willow still in her 'startled virgin' phase which they play for laughs and will eventually be taken over by Dawn as Will grows more and more worldly. The Divinyls also provide music for the Buffy movie. Lovely scene between Giles and Buffy at the end.

The Bad;
Not much, strong ep

Best line;
Giles; I believe that's called 'Growing up'
Buffy; Then I'd like to stop now, ok?
but also
Willow (about Angel) "Ours is a forbidden love"
Xander (after Chantrelle describes vamps as 'the lonely ones') "Actually we call them the nasty, pointy, bitey ones"
and Giles' wonderful speech at the end.

Questions and observations;
Cordy identifies with Marie-Antoinette. One day she too will be a Queen with people having their heads cut off. Ford likes Jack Palance as Dracula which is also the version Angel recommends (you wonder did he ever meet the real thing? He was certainly in Romania) Don't bother looking for Ford in the Buffy movie, I assure you he's not even mentioned. Jason Bher (Ford) will work with SMG again in The Grudge. We get the story of Angelus and Drusilla for the first time, explaining why Angel was reluctant to talk it over with the Scoobies.
Ford is SUCH a scumbag. Ok, you're dying but that doesn't mean you kill dozens of other people to enable you to 'live'. His scheme also seems unecessarily elaborate, why not just catch a vamp, chain it up in the open and tell it either to sire you and you'll release it or it'll be dead by sun-up?
Buffy entered a beauty contest at Hemery (check out 'I know what you did last summer' for SMG in a swimsuit pageant). Giles and Jenny have their second date at a monster truck rally which I think would have been a great episode in itself. Spike keeps his word and sires Ford, as with his love of Dru he seems a very atypical vampire.
Great stuff 8/10
 
The Dark Age;

The Good;
Buffy's training although as Will later comments isn't she just naturally buff? Willow coming through with a great idea, Cordy tripping Ethan

The Bad;
The melting effect is a little lame. The demon seems quite insignificant compared to the threats we later see.

Best line;
Buffy; Have I ever let you down?
Giles; Do you want me to answer that or just glare?
but also
Xander; An extra day in school plus Cordelia? Mix in a little rectal surgery and it's my best day ever

Questions and observations;
Who's Gavin Rossdale? According to the comics Buffy's fantasy hasn't changed that much it's just Daniel Craig now. Willow by contrast likes Tina Fey now (Seth Green and Eric Balfour will work with John Cusack in 'America's Sweethearts' and Michelle Tractenberg will work with his sister Joan in 'Ice Princess').
Very much Giles' episode and adding a lot more depth to his character. Great stuff between him and Ethan, you wonder if ASH and Robin Sachs have worked together before, they really do come across as old friends.
Why does Eoghan wait all these years? Drunk Giles for the first time and Xander mentions his infamous uncle Rory who we'll later meet in Hell's Bells. The Bay City Rollers were late 70s and a little cheesey for a teen rebel like Giles. Jenny knocked unconscious and goes evil, Buffy knocked unconscious and tied up. Jenny mentions "I've got you under my skin" which is later a title for an Angel ep.
6/10, good ep but not brilliant
 
What's my line? pt1

The Good;
Love Buffy's miniskirt and booties, very hot. The neighbours scream blending into the plane's engine noise. Will and Oz, awwww! Buffy ice-skating, you wonder who's better now, SMG or Michelle 'Ice Princess' Tractenberg? Or maybe Julie Benz who is also apparently was once rated 12th best in the US. Buffy's gesture with the torch when Giles suggests she consider law enforcement as a career. Death by iceskate! Buffy's paranoia as she walks through careers day. The Xander/Snyder faceoff. Cordy's little expression at the thought of free cosmetics. Buffy's look of shock at the final line.

The Bad;
Kendra's accent for one although if she was taken from her parents as a child and raised in the UK you'd expect it to be a mishmash.

Best line;
Cordy; What am I, mass transportation?
Xander; That's what guys say but it's just locker room talk

Questions and observations;
A small town like Sunnydale must have a pretty huge airport to handle a 747? Why has no one tried to hire the Order of Taraka before now? Willy the Snitch for the first time. Angel tortures him, of course. Xander refers to the Scooby gang for the first time. First sign of Will's frog fear. Is this the first appearance of Mr Gordo? Also Dalton who will reappear as Spike's lackey in future eps. Xander breaks into Buffy's house very easily,for such a dangerous town everyone seems very slack. What happened to the Slayer rule about not killing humans, Kendra tries to kill Buff with the axe.
10/10 great stuff
 
Just watched the three episodes in which Joyces death and funeral ake place and wow I was almost brought to tears a few time, Joss knew what he was doing thats for sure. Also this whole Spike/Buffy thing isn't that bad.
 
I think Drusilla was underused , also wanted to see Buffy stake her at some point.
 
Just watched the three episodes in which Joyces death and funeral ake place and wow I was almost brought to tears a few time, Joss knew what he was doing thats for sure. Also this whole Spike/Buffy thing isn't that bad.

It's awesome stuff, does make me cry every time and then phone my parents to check they're ok. The final scene in Forever is my favourite in all of Buffy.
Yes, love Dru and great that they keep bringing her back again and again, she even features in the 3rd last ep of Angel

What's my line? pt2

The Good;
Xander and Cordy get together, inevitable really. But Willow and Oz also take their first real steps towards a relationship. The shootout at the careers fair with Jonathon held hostage for the first time. Dru torturing Angel and Angel goading Spike into almost killing him. Great fight, great final twist, the sight of an arisen Dru carrying Spike is awesome.

The Bad;
If you can find some, let me know because I can't

Best line;
Xander; I am the bug man, coo-coo coo chu

Questions and observations;
Although not a Scooby yet Oz is shot, the second in a long line to be so plus Angel chained up. Buffy and Kendra torture Willy the Snitch, the Scoobs really having no problem with it. Cordy's wet dress is pretty daring not to mention Willy offering Buffy and Kendra a nude photoshoot (one day she won't be so dainty) but not half as extreme as the kinkfest which is Dru and Angel (she calls him a 'bad dog' and even more disturbingly 'daddy') . Note that Dru seems to genuinely miss her family (whilst Angelus glibly killed his) implying once again that Dru and Spike are exceptional vamps with remnants of humanity (possibly due to Dru's link to the PTB?). Despite his reputation Spike meanwhile seems to have no taste for torture commenting that he'd rather just see Angel die than the pre-show. Isn't it a bit risky for Dru to have Holy Water lying around? The Dru/Spike/Angel(us) jealousy triangle rears it's ugly if fascinating head. In terms of jealousy we also have Kendra and Buffy competing for Giles' attention like two little girls with their father, it's interesting to contrast that later with Buffy and Dawn (or Faith?) vying for Joyce's affections.
For a long time I thought the police woman assassin was Pat Tallman from Babylon 5 (who's also a stuntwoman) but it's not.
If Kendra was taken from her family to be trained at an early age, why wasn't Buffy? Although you can imagine Joyce and Hank's reaction if Merrick turned up at their door and said "Hey, I need to take your little daughter away to train her to fight the powers of evil" (they'd probably call the police and/or shoot him). Kendra's Watcher is called Sam Zebuto, confirming for the first time that not all Watchers are automatically British despite the Council's full name. Don't the council think Giles' and co need to know of Kendra's existance?
Willow nails her first vamp whilst Cordy helps Xander kill the bug man.
So did Kendra and Buffy dream up this plan between them all along or did Kendra follow Buffy to the church and then call all the Scoobies? Or was the argument at Willy's place all a show and the rest of the Scoobies tailed her and Willy knowing he'd lead them to Spike?
So why is the contract called off? That is lame and it's the only reason the ep gets 8/10 rather than top marks. Reminds me off Star Trek;Voyager where they'd find a way to return to Earth one week only to conveniently forget about it the next
8/10 for THAT ending alone
 
Once more with feeling was amazing, prolly one of the best things i have ever seen!
 
Ehh... I loved it, but Smile Time was even more amazing in my eyes.
 
Ill tell you what I think when I see that. Watching Buffy first and Angel second.
 
OMWF and Smile Time are terrific but don't forget about Tabula Rusa, one of the best mold breaking eps. As for Smile Time don't forget that it was preceeded by the epic You're Welcome:csad:

Hush you should watch Buffy/Angel alternatively, one ep of Buff then one ep of Angel, that way you'd get the crossovers etc

(Hi, have you met...?) Ted
A prize for whoever can get that joke

The Good;
Really the more Joyce in an episode the better it is. She was originally due to be a very minor character as in the movie but the cast and crew all fell in love with Joyce/Kristine Sutherland and the writers kept giving her more and more to do. She's excellent here, the pained scenes between Buffy and Joyce are wonderful in their awkwardness (note Joyce just tells the police that Ted fell, still trying to protect her daughter, it's Buffy who admits she fought with him). Full marks also to John Ritter playing essentially an evil version of his character from 8 Simple Rules. Great scene where Buffy plays nurse to Angel (which she also enjoys doing later with Riley and season 7 Spike). Buffy taking out some frustrations on a very unfortunate vamp (Giles still accompanies her sometimes) plus Giles and Jenny beginning to get back together. Cordy's miniskirt and knee boots are smashing. Lovely scene between Buffy and Joyce at the end although not the best they'll ever have.

The Bad;
Labours a bit in the middle and the robot makeup is a bit dodgy (although if it's 50s technology maybe it should be crude?)

Best line;
Giles; "I believe the subtext here is rapidly becoming a text" (one of my great favourites which I use often) plus "DO let's bring that up as often as possible" when Cordy remarks on the Eyghon affair. Also great;
Cordy; "Buffy's a superhero, shouldn't there be different rules for her?"
Willow; "Sure in a facist society"
Cordy; "Yeah, why can't we have one of those?" (Wait until 'Shiny happy people')

Questions and observations;
Willow and Xander discuss The Captain and Tennile. Quite weird as their last big hit was in 1980 and that would have been before they were born. More the sort of talk a bunch of 30 year old scriptwriters would have. Xander suggests Buffy play 'the naughty stewardess' which is probably the one outfit SMG hasn't worn for a men's magazine. Giles becomes the 3rd Scooby to be shot, Buffy and Joyce knocked out. How exactly does Willow analyse Ted's cookies using a microscope?
Ted's creator, like Willow, Daryll Epps and ultimately Warren seems to be a recipient of the Hellmouth energy genius. No Oz. Buffy's antipathy to Ted actually seems pretty unreasonable although did any child of a divorce ever not want their parents to get back together? (I always think of the hair dye ad where the two little girls tell their dad that he'd be a great catch for someone, in real life you just know that if their mother was still alive they'd want him to get back with her and if she was dead they'd want to keep him for themselves).
Big question, what did Dawn make of Ted? Did she like him as Joyce did or did she share Buffy's hatred? Due to her comments in 'I was made to love you' I think probably the latter. Surely being only 16 Buffy should have a solicitor or at very least an adult with her when the police talk to her? Shouldn't Joyce contact Hank and tell him what's going on? Ted threatens to put Buffy in a mental institution which she was in before (and if 'Normal Again' is to be believed remains in until she regains her sanity again at the end of 'Chosen'). Slayer healing is referenced for the first time, Buffy telling the detective that she doesn't bruise easily. Just as Buffy is repeatedly saved by her fashion sense Cordy discovers Ted's secret lair due to her sense of interior decoration (which we see again later in 'Rm w/a vu')
All told 6/10, a standalone ep that's ok in itself, it's strengths largely lying in the dialogue. The series increasingly relying on the relationships between the characters rather than the demon of the week, no bad thing.
 
Yeah I was gonna do that but my lady friend and I decided to opt out of that, we just wanted to watch Buffy all the way through and then watch Angel all theway through. She is a bigger Buffy fan and I'm the bigger Angel fan. I know you should watch them at the same time but I also didn't want to have to change out Disc after disc. It's all good we will figure it out and maybe the next time we watch them we will do it that way but it seems the Angel appearances and Buffy appearances do not add a **** ton to the story.
 
Yeah I was gonna do that but my lady friend and I decided to opt out of that, we just wanted to watch Buffy all the way through and then watch Angel all theway through. She is a bigger Buffy fan and I'm the bigger Angel fan. I know you should watch them at the same time but I also didn't want to have to change out Disc after disc. It's all good we will figure it out and maybe the next time we watch them we will do it that way but it seems the Angel appearances and Buffy appearances do not add a **** ton to the story.
 
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