Buffy the Vampire Slayer and Angel the Vampire

[spideyboy_1111]

Seasons 6 & 7 had their good points, I'm not denying that. I actually liked Once More With Fealing (and I usually find musicals to be lame). I also really liked the season finale Hell Hath No Fury Like A Wicca Scorned, with Willow going all dark and almost destroying the world. Most of the rest of the season I fealt was just too far below Joss Whedon's usually high standards. And while they seemingly dropped the ball in season 6, they managed to pick it up again in season 7. Still, I still think they lacked alot of the spark that the first five seasons had. Thus, in my opinion, the show jumped the shark.

I agree that Angel needed another season, but the move to Wolfram & Hart was a mistake. You seem to be forgetting that the network was going to pull the plug on the show in midseason, without even a final episode. They only do that when shows are doing really poorly, or when the boss is on a huge powertrip and does whatever the hell he wants without ryme or reason. In Angel's case, it was the former. People lost interest and stopped watching, which caused the ratings to crash, which caused the cancelation. The only reason they even finished the season is because there was enough of an outcry by Buffy & Angel fans that they agreed to allow the fifth season to go to its conclusion. If Angel had never made the move to Wolfram & Hart, the show probably could have gone another two seasons.

People stopped watching mostly because of season 4... people lost intrest because of Connor and the Cordy arch... which effected the 5th season.

 

[spideyboy_1111]

Um I dont know where you were during Season5 of Angel but Angel was one of the only WB shows that year to have its ratings go up. So it wasnt doing bad, it was doing one of its best seasons in ratings.

exactly... like i said if anything killed angel, it was season 4...

 

[TheCorpulent1]

Connor f***ing Cordelia = Angel jumping the shark. It's a testament to the fifth season that it managed to be so good after all the crap that went wrong in the fourth season.

 

[Primal Slayer]

Even if S4 were better I doubt TheWB wouldve kept it around longer. They treated Angel as leftovers from Buffy and when Buffy was over they didnt see the need to continue the show and obviously didnt want it anymore.

 

[TheFuture]

Connor f***ing Cordelia = Angel jumping the shark. It's a testament to the fifth season that it managed to be so good after all the crap that went wrong in the fourth season.

I barely watched S5 when it first aired, partly because I was doing exams to get into Uni at the time and I didn't have the time but it also had a lot to do with what happened in S4. That left a bad taste in my mouth which is terribly disappointing because up until then I preferred it to Buffy.

 

[Thundarr]

Um I dont know where you were during Season5 of Angel but Angel was one of the only WB shows that year to have its ratings go up. So it wasnt doing bad, it was doing one of its best seasons in ratings.

Season 5's ratings went up because they made it obvious that the show was coming to an end and everyone wanted to see how things were going to turn out. The stories did get better, but that's because they were getting darker as the final season was going to have a climactic showdown between Team Angel and Wolfram & Hart. But again, you are forgetting that the season was cancelled less than halfway through. It was only through the outrage of the diehard fans and Joss Whedon's skill at negotiations that they were able to finish the series at all. Otherwise it was going to end much the same way The A-Team, Dark Angel, and Tru Calling did.

 

[PhoenixRise]

Season 5's ratings went up because they made it obvious that the show was coming to an end and everyone wanted to see how things were going to turn out. The stories did get better, but that's because they were getting darker as the final season was going to have a climactic showdown between Team Angel and Wolfram & Hart. But again, you are forgetting that the season was cancelled less than halfway through. It was only through the outrage of the diehard fans and Joss Whedon's skill at negotiations that they were able to finish the series at all. Otherwise it was going to end much the same way The A-Team, Dark Angel, and Tru Calling did.

You have no clue.

 

[Primal Slayer]

A. Joss asked TheWB to make a decision on the series so he would know what to work with. They told him in the middle of the season that they wouldnt bring it back for a 6th.

B. The Fans nor Joss knew that it was the last season until mid season so your whole "people only tuned in because they knew it was the end" fails.

 

[Mike]

Wait, I thought Angel was rated at 2nd next to smallville's ratings. Season 4 was not all that bad either. I just didnt like the whole Jasmine thing. But you cant tell me the Beast wasnt kick ass.

 

[TheCorpulent1]

Smallville doesn't exactly get huge ratings, either.

 

[04nbod]

Smallville doesn't exactly get huge ratings, either.

It used to. It was the highest rated pilot the WB ever had. The old WB was amazing.

I have a few buffy books at home I haven't got around to reading. Including the angel crossover trilogy. They still release buffy books, like 4/5 a year scattered throughout the buffy timeline. Anyone else read them?

 

[Captain_BluTac]

I have a load, but haven't read 'em.

 

[TheCorpulent1]

I tend to stay away from novels about TV shows or comics.

 

[Captain_BluTac]

Their are quite a few decent "TV show novels" actually, the Doctor Who ones especially.

 

[Matt.S99]

It used to. It was the highest rated pilot the WB ever had. The old WB was amazing.

I have a few buffy books at home I haven't got around to reading. Including the angel crossover trilogy. They still release buffy books, like 4/5 a year scattered throughout the buffy timeline. Anyone else read them?

I got bags full of buffy books for free from my library. The librarian knows i love buff,y so she gave em all to me, havent read em tho.

 

[marukisu]

Wait, I thought Angel was rated at 2nd next to smallville's ratings. Season 4 was not all that bad either. I just didnt like the whole Jasmine thing. But you cant tell me the Beast wasnt kick ass.

At the time Angel's ratings were second to Smallvilles which were number 1 at the time. Season 5's increase of ratings should have been a reason to keep Angel for at least 2 more seasons.

As far as season 4 I would have prefered it if they had Jasmne as the main antagonist only it was a cult trying to bring her into exsistence as oppose to Cordy. Cordy could have stayed trapped in the Astral plane or wheereever she was. And this would have worked in accordance to Charisma's pregancy alot better.

As far as Angel jumping the shark there was a cerian decline in quality but season 5 proved that ngel had a lot more in it. The Spike and Angel chemistry, Fred turning into Illyria, The puppet episode. there was alot more to be done in the Angelverse.

 

[The Batman]

The sad thing about season 4 was that...the first half was freaking EPIC...honestly, it couldve easily been the best season...and then connor banged cordy...and then...jasmine....

 

[marukisu]

The sad thing about season 4 was that...the first half was freaking EPIC...honestly, it couldve easily been the best season...and then connor banged cordy...and then...jasmine....

well that part was unexpected but what were you personaly expecting them to do with the story before cordy and connor and jasmine? Or where would you have wanted them to go?

 

[spideyboy_1111]

well that part was unexpected but what were you personaly expecting them to do with the story before cordy and connor and jasmine? Or where would you have wanted them to go?

big bad villain making hell on earth

 

[Kahoot]

I tend to stay away from novels about TV shows or comics.

I agree with that. If it's a movie first or a TV show I'll pass.

Why would they write books for TV shows anyway? If they story was good enough that they want people to see/read it then make in into an episode instead, that's the point of TV.

 

[Primal Slayer]

Because every writer has a different idea and tv only has 22 episodes to tell a story.

I have read plenty of Buffy books and love a lot of them. The Unseen trilogy was great along with The Lost Slayer, Monster Island, Heat, and the Book of Fours.

 

[Kahoot]

22 episodes a season. If the story is good enough to make it into one of these 22 episodes then it must be a good idea other wise forget it it's clearly not liked by the other writers and producers so it's not good.

 

[TheCorpulent1]

I don't think the novels and the TV show are really that connected. The novel writers just take their cues from the TV show and write their own stories. It's not a question of being good enough for TV because they're not written in conjunction with the TV stuff.

 

[Kahoot]

I'm not much of a reader thanx to my dyslexia so if I can watch it I'm probably not gonna read it. And if the novel writer comes up with a good story I think they should give it to the TV people and try to get it on air.

In the case of Buffy where it's been off air for years then they are just milking it and should try to come up with their own universe and use the story in there.

 

[Primal Slayer]

Then what is the point of people writing fanfiction? Should they just contact the writers and give them their ideas to incorpate into episodes?

Books like The Lost Slayer, Unseen, Book of Fours wouldnt fit into any of the Buffy seasons since that just wasnt where Joss was taking the show and ofcourse he didnt think of those ideas. Plus often some of the books arent even set during whatever season is being aired.