Bullied or Over-Sensitive?

[Optimus_Prime_]

The term "anti-Bullying" is big news these days, and we see a lot of people with powerful spokespersons coming forward against bullying, but to me it's a rather odd word to throw around.

The story that's on the first page, for example, went past bullying and right onto assault, something we have laws against. If the situation had involved two older individuals who were adults it just would've been called assault, not bullying. I also think this door swings both ways. When a kid gets shoved in a locker, or beaten up, we should not call that bullying or teasing, because I know a Judge, a lawyer and a police officer would all have different words for those things. Although I realize sometimes younger people assaulting each other is brushed aside as 'rough housing'. Something I find pretty stupid and thoughtless.

Though you hear many claim bullying is always wrong. This, I'm not so sure of. Sure, I agree words do hurt, but from my experience if you want to survive in the world, having a thick skin about what gets said to you is sort of a necessity. Most people perform "sh** tests" on people. A good example is women and men. Women will sh** test a guy sometimes just to see if he can "take it", because the last thing anyone wants is someone who folds like a cheap accordion anytime they get called some mean name.

So what do you think? Do you think all bullying is reprehensible, or perhaps that there are certain forms of bullying that are helpful to normal development.

 

[RetrogradeOrbit]

A good question, I hope the debate is equally so.

If treatment of one individual by another leads to that person feeling threatened/intimidated/fearful then it is wrong and needs to be addressed. It does not matter whether the treatment is physical or mental in nature. Both hurt.
Of course circumstances matter, but I am talking about an unprovoked attack on one person from another.

Taking the above as the example, saying someone needs to have a "thicker skin" is a poor response as far as I am concerned.

 

[Optimus_Prime_]

If treatment of one individual by another leads to that person feeling threatened/intimidated/fearful then it is wrong and needs to be addressed. It does not matter whether the treatment is physical or mental in nature. Both hurt.

Of course circumstances matter, but I am talking about an unprovoked attack on one person from another.

Taking the above as the example, saying someone needs to have a "thicker skin" is a poor response as far as I am concerned.

To this, though, I would say, anyone you know who is successful, who is in management, who is actually capable at work and life has sort of a thick skin. Think about all the people that hit you up for money when you get older.

One of my roommates had this problem. People would stiff him at gigs. I told him how he had to get in their face about it (metaphorically), or things he could do to kind of tell them off. Things I've used in business when people didn't want to pay me, which happens like every five minutes. You'd probably think being in manufacturing when someone orders $100,000 worth of parts they pay you...haha, that's funny. He was in a much cheaper outfit, being a DJ, but would get stiffed constantly. I'd tell him to threaten to not play after setting up, sticking around, getting something signed and taking it to a lawyer, etc. But he was so afraid he would "piss them off" by doing this he never applied any pressure. They eventually fired him over some nonsense. That's a great example of someone who LET themselves be bullied, and then played the victim card about it.

 

[The Guard]

Though you hear many claim bullying is always wrong. This, I'm not so sure of. Sure, I agree words do hurt, but from my experience if you want to survive in the world, having a thick skin about what gets said to you is sort of a necessity. Most people perform "sh** tests" on people.

Agreed, to a point. Especially if you're a man.

I think bullying, insulting or putting down of any kind is wrong, and ultimately damaging to both the victim and the perpetrator, but one needs to learn how to respond to various types of adversity in life, and how to recognize the intent and meaning behind different types of communication.

Specifically, people need to learn that there are some people who are just *******s in the world, and to learn not to let what they say affect how they feel about themselves, and to learn how to deal with these people. It's easier said than done, but it is very possible. Too many people do not possess these skills, or any kind of balanced approach to the matter.

 

[NickNitro]

Sure, I agree words do hurt, but from my experience if you want to survive in the world, having a thick skin about what gets said to you is sort of a necessity. Most people perform "sh** tests" on people. A good example is women and men. Women will sh** test a guy sometimes just to see if he can "take it", because the last thing anyone wants is someone who folds like a cheap accordion anytime they get called some mean name.

So what do you think? Do you think all bullying is reprehensible, or perhaps that there are certain forms of bullying that are helpful to normal development.

Alright Optimus, here we go

Children being bullied and someone calling you an a** hole when you're 25 are 2 completely different things. When you're a child, you are more responsive to negative actions than say a person who's lived through life for a few decades. When a child falls and scrapes his/her knee, they cry. When an adult does the same, they curse and swear. Does this mean the childs weak? No, it means to me that they are just more emotionally sensative and have not yet been able to properly develop their feelings.

When a child is called names in school, feels neglected from their peers its a much more dramatic feeling. I agree you have to develop a tough skin, but that takes time. These young kids, they are JUST starting to learn how to interact in social groups, make friends, etc. When you have someone who is pushing you, hitting you, always cutting you down verbally, as a child you feel it a lot more because its all new to you. You haven't have time to learn to deal with difficult circumstances in life.

 

[Optimus_Prime_]

Alright Optimus, here we go

Children being bullied and someone calling you an a** hole when you're 25 are 2 completely different things. When you're a child, you are more responsive to negative actions than say a person who's lived through life for a few decades. When a child falls and scrapes his/her knee, they cry. When an adult does the same, they curse and swear. Does this mean the childs weak? No, it means to me that they are just more emotionally sensative and have not yet been able to properly develop their feelings.

When a child is called names in school, feels neglected from their peers its a much more dramatic feeling. I agree you have to develop a tough skin, but that takes time. These young kids, they are JUST starting to learn how to interact in social groups, make friends, etc. When you have someone who is pushing you, hitting you, always cutting you down as a child you feel it a lot more because its all new to you. You haven't have time to learn to deal with difficult circumstances in life.

You threaten to stunt whatever natural emotional progression they may have when you try to shield them too much.

Ever heard of the "Skinner Box"?

 

[NickNitro]

Im not talking about the parents shielding their children from being picked on. I'm describing how an adult can view the situation, as we are. We may see the child as "Over-Sensitive" I am saying we may see them as emotionally frail but its because they are still developing.

In my eyes, we are now outsiders looking in. We are adults now, with proper logical thinking skills and social understanding to handle these situations better than say an 8 year old. So to judge their behavior based on our current mind set I think we have to take what I said previously into consideration.

 

[Hotwire]

Bullying is never justified. All it does it make someone else feel worse so that you can feel better. It's pure selfishness and there is no excuse for it. While it is true that people need a "thick skin" to survive, that does not mean that those who torment others should get a pass. The idea of people giving others a "s*** test" is just childish. There are grown up ways to test someone's mettle.

 

[Figs]

Bullying is never justified. All it does it make someone else feel worse so that you can feel better. It's pure selfishness and there is no excuse for it. While it is true that people need a "thick skin" to survive, that does not mean that those who torment others should get a pass. The idea of people giving others a "s*** test" is just childish. There are grown up ways to test someone's mettle.

I fully agree.

Also, getting bullied doesn't really give someone a thick skin. It actually tends to do the opposite by dropping their self esteem.

 

[Hotwire]

I saw this on Facebook and thought it would fit here, too.

 

[Optimus_Prime_]

I saw this on Facebook and thought it would fit here, too.

I'll be honest: that's the biggest piece of "emo" bullsh** I've ever heard.

I used to call Helicopters "Hecto-copters" and got teased about it. Get over it. It's kind of funny. Especially his story. Claimed his Grandmother karate chopped him...sounds like the set up to a great stand up comedy bit. Instead he wants me to feel sorry for him? Pretty silly.

The lesson of his story he doesn't say: maybe he should've tried being honest instead of lying to cover up being embarrassed about falling out of a tree. He tries to avoid the petty fate of being b*tched at by his grandmother and instead makes things much worse. It's all his fault for simply not owning up to what he was doing in the tree.

 

[Soapy]

Bullying is reprehensible and anyone who defends it is a total scumbag. End of story.

 

[Hotwire]

I'll be honest: that's the biggest piece of "emo" bullsh** I've ever heard.

I used to call Helicopters "Hecto-copters" and got teased about it. Get over it. It's kind of funny. Especially his story. Claimed his Grandmother karate chopped him...sounds like the set up to a great stand up comedy bit. Instead he wants me to feel sorry for him? Pretty silly.

The lesson of his story he doesn't say: maybe he should've tried being honest instead of lying to cover up being embarrassed about falling out of a tree. He tries to avoid the petty fate of being b*tched at by his grandmother and instead makes things much worse. It's all his fault for simply not owning up to what he was doing in the tree.

Did you not watch the whole thing? It seems like you didn't because, the end of it he goes into how to help yourself get over what happened. And calling it "emo bulls***" is a bit of a cop out and rather snobbish of you to say. It's turning a blind eye to those who are hurt by bullying, not so much physically but emotionally. Watch the whole thing and maybe you'll understand it a bit better.

As for the part about not telling his Grandmother, we've all done something like that.

 

[Optimus_Prime_]

Did you not watch the whole thing? It seems like you didn't because, the end of it he goes into how to help yourself get over what happened. And calling it "emo bulls***" is a bit of a cop out and rather snobbish of you to say. It's turning a blind eye to those who are hurt by bullying, not so much physically but emotionally. Watch the whole thing and maybe you'll understand it a bit better.

As for the part about not telling his Grandmother, we've all done something like that.

Yeah, that's great, but not all of us wrote over-dramatized poems about it. We learned "hey, maybe lying to every other authority to try to protect myself actually ended up hurting my grandmother and maybe I shouldn't do that again".

There was literally zero self-criticism here, and that's his problem: the whole video is about how the world should simply bow down to his imperfections. "So, I thought pork chops and karate chops were the same thing". Yeah, and they aren't, so that's hilarious. "I didn't want to tell my grandmother about the tree so I invented an elaborate lie that implicated my grandmother with the authorities." After that moment in the poem the rest should've been how sorry he was for inconveniencing his grandmother like that. That's awful. Can you imagine having to argue with protective services, and the police, having to talk to lawyers and not knowing whether they'll return your kid or not? That's dreadful what he put her through.

 

[Hotwire]

Yeah, that's great, but not all of us wrote over-dramatized poems about it. We learned "hey, maybe lying to every other authority to try to protect myself actually ended up hurting my grandmother and maybe I shouldn't do that again".

There was literally zero self-criticism here, and that's his problem: the whole video is about how the world should simply bow down to his imperfections. "So, I thought pork chops and karate chops were the same thing". Yeah, and they aren't, so that's hilarious. "I didn't want to tell my grandmother about the tree so I invented an elaborate lie that implicated my grandmother with the authorities." After that moment in the poem the rest should've been how sorry he was for inconveniencing his grandmother like that. That's awful. Can you imagine having to argue with protective services, and the police, having to talk to lawyers and not knowing whether they'll return your kid or not? That's dreadful what he put her through.

No, the whole video is NOT about how the world should bow to his imperfections. You really turned off as soon as you started listening. He didn't lie to the authorities, he even said he told them the truth about his grandmother. From what I can tell, they never asked specifically how he got the bruises.

Here's a transcript of it since you seem to be too busy putting him down for the first part to hear the rest of it. The part about the girl with the birthmark, the part about the boy who was adopted, and the part about how you help yourself get past these things that happened and hurt you in your life.

To This Day
When I was a kid
I used to think that pork chops and karate chops
were the same thing
I thought they were both pork chops
and because my grandmother thought it was cute
and because they were my favourite
she let me keep doing it
not really a big deal
one day
before I realized fat kids are not designed to climb trees
I fell out of a tree
and bruised the right side of my body
I didn’t want to tell my grandmother about it
because I was afraid I’d get in trouble
for playing somewhere that I shouldn’t have been
a few days later the gym teacher noticed the bruise
and I got sent to the principal’s office
from there I was sent to another small room
with a really nice lady
who asked me all kinds of questions
about my life at home
I saw no reason to lie
as far as I was concerned
life was pretty good
I told her “whenever I’m sad
my grandmother gives me karate chops”
this led to a full scale investigation
and I was removed from the house for three days
until they finally decided to ask how I got the bruises
news of this silly little story quickly spread through the school
and I earned my first nickname
pork chop
to this day
I hate pork chops This is my note to let you know when the poem stops being about just his story and about other kids.
I’m not the only kid
who grew up this way
surrounded by people who used to say
that rhyme about sticks and stones
as if broken bones
hurt more than the names we got called
and we got called them all
so we grew up believing no one
would ever fall in love with us
that we’d be lonely forever
that we’d never meet someone
to make us feel like the sun
was something they built for us
in their tool shed
so broken heart strings bled the blues
as we tried to empty ourselves
so we would feel nothing
don’t tell me that hurts less than a broken bone
that an ingrown life
is something surgeons can cut away
that there’s no way for it to metastasize
it does
she was eight years old
our first day of grade three
when she got called ugly
we both got moved to the back of the class
so we would stop get bombarded by spit balls
but the school halls were a battleground
where we found ourselves outnumbered day after wretched day
we used to stay inside for recess
because outside was worse
outside we’d have to rehearse running away
or learn to stay still like statues giving no clues that we were there
in grade five they taped a sign to her desk
that read beware of dog
to this day
despite a loving husband
she doesn’t think she’s beautiful
because of a birthmark
that takes up a little less than half of her face
kids used to say she looks like a wrong answer
that someone tried to erase
but couldn’t quite get the job done
and they’ll never understand
that she’s raising two kids
whose definition of beauty
begins with the word mom
because they see her heart
before they see her skin
that she’s only ever always been amazing
he
was a broken branch
grafted onto a different family tree
adopted
but not because his parents opted for a different destiny
he was three when he became a mixed drink
of one part left alone
and two parts tragedy
started therapy in 8th grade
had a personality made up of tests and pills
lived like the uphills were mountains
and the downhills were cliffs
four fifths suicidal
a tidal wave of anti depressants
and an adolescence of being called popper
one part because of the pills
and ninety nine parts because of the cruelty
he tried to kill himself in grade ten
when a kid who still had his mom and dad
had the audacity to tell him “get over it” as if depression
is something that can be remedied
by any of the contents found in a first aid kit
to this day
he is a stick on TNT lit from both ends
could describe to you in detail the way the sky bends
in the moments before it’s about to fall
and despite an army of friends
who all call him an inspiration
he remains a conversation piece between people
who can’t understand
sometimes becoming drug free
has less to do with addiction
and more to do with sanity
we weren’t the only kids who grew up this way
to this day
kids are still being called names
the classics were
hey stupid
hey spaz
seems like each school has an arsenal of names
getting updated every year
and if a kid breaks in a school
and no one around chooses to hear
do they make a sound?
are they just the background noise
of a soundtrack stuck on repeat
when people say things like
kids can be cruel?
every school was a big top circus tent
and the pecking order went
from acrobats to lion tamers
from clowns to carnies
all of these were miles ahead of who we were
we were freaks
lobster claw boys and bearded ladies
oddities
juggling depression and loneliness playing solitaire spin the bottle
trying to kiss the wounded parts of ourselves and heal
but at night
while the others slept
we kept walking the tightrope
it was practice
and yeah
some of us fell
but I want to tell them
that all of this s***
is just debris
leftover when we finally decide to smash all the things we thought
we used to be
and if you can’t see anything beautiful about yourself
get a better mirror
look a little closer
stare a little longer
because there’s something inside you
that made you keep trying
despite everyone who told you to quit
you built a cast around your broken heart
and signed it yourself
you signed it
“they were wrong”
because maybe you didn’t belong to a group or a click
maybe they decided to pick you last for basketball or everything
maybe you used to bring bruises and broken teeth
to show and tell but never told
because how can you hold your ground
if everyone around you wants to bury you beneath it
you have to believe that they were wrong
they have to be wrong
why else would we still be here?
we grew up learning to cheer on the underdog
because we see ourselves in them
we stem from a root planted in the belief
that we are not what we were called we are not abandoned cars stalled out and sitting empty on a highway
and if in some way we are
don’t worry
we only got out to walk and get gas
we are graduating members from the class of
f*** off we made it
not the faded echoes of voices crying out
names will never hurt me
of course
they did
but our lives will only ever always
continue to be
a balancing act
that has less to do with pain
and more to do with beauty.

 

[Optimus_Prime_]

You can post it all you want dude, that's the biggest sob story, pity party crap I've ever heard.

Like this

"every school was a big top circus tent
and the pecking order went
from acrobats to lion tamers
from clowns to carnies
all of these were miles ahead of who we were
we were freaks"

He perceives a pecking order; there isn't actually one. I hate to say it, but for him, the "get over it" crowd is right. I looked at him, he is pretty fat, he can do something about that, his whole story is petty and all about him. That's why he is so ********, it's pretty clear he doesn't actually get out there and 'do' anything. This is a textbook brat if I ever read one.

 

[Optimus_Prime_]

This is an interesting video addition, perhaps a response to Koyczan from the movie Glengarry Glen Ross

Alec Baldwin's Blake gives a speech to open the film (WARNING: THIS VIDEO CONTAINS HARSH AND ABUSIVE LANGUAGE)

The video itself is a bit of a psychological test. Blake is intentionally a jacka**, materialistic, ego-maniacal, and abusive. The genius is half watch the video as if he's a motivational coach, they understand that while he is demonstrative, this is work and they feed off the energy. The other half seethes in anger since they feel Blake has no right to talk to them like that. The great thing about the video though is Blake represents exactly what the world will expect of you.

There are other subtleties as well that you really only pick up on when you watch the movie.

 

[Hotwire]

You can post it all you want dude, that's the biggest sob story, pity party crap I've ever heard.

Like this

"every school was a big top circus tent
and the pecking order went
from acrobats to lion tamers
from clowns to carnies
all of these were miles ahead of who we were
we were freaks"

He perceives a pecking order; there isn't actually one. I hate to say it, but for him, the "get over it" crowd is right. I looked at him, he is pretty fat, he can do something about that, his whole story is petty and all about him. That's why he is so ********, it's pretty clear he doesn't actually get out there and 'do' anything. This is a textbook brat if I ever read one.

There is a pecking order. You just never lived it, that's all. I did. You are really trying your hardest to put all the blame on him for everything that happened to him and give him zero credit for how he's managed to get past it and write this to help others do the same.

Tell me how this is part of that ******** brat you just mentioned?

"but I want to tell them
that all of this s***
is just debris
leftover when we finally decide to smash all the things we thought
we used to be
and if you can’t see anything beautiful about yourself
get a better mirror
look a little closer
stare a little longer
because there’s something inside you
that made you keep trying
despite everyone who told you to quit
you built a cast around your broken heart
and signed it yourself
you signed it
“they were wrong”
because maybe you didn’t belong to a group or a click
maybe they decided to pick you last for basketball or everything
maybe you used to bring bruises and broken teeth
to show and tell but never told
because how can you hold your ground
if everyone around you wants to bury you beneath it
you have to believe that they were wrong
they have to be wrong
why else would we still be here?
we grew up learning to cheer on the underdog
because we see ourselves in them
we stem from a root planted in the belief
that we are not what we were called we are not abandoned cars stalled out and sitting empty on a highway
and if in some way we are
don’t worry
we only got out to walk and get gas
we are graduating members from the class of
f*** off we made it
not the faded echoes of voices crying out
names will never hurt me
of course
they did
but our lives will only ever always
continue to be
a balancing act
that has less to do with pain
and more to do with beauty."

 

[Hotwire]

Alec Baldwin's Blake gives a speech to open the film (WARNING: THIS VIDEO CONTAINS HARSH AND ABUSIVE LANGUAGE)

Just FYI, that disclaimer won't stop a mod/admin from infracting you for posting it.

 

[Optimus_Prime_]

There is a pecking order.

No, there isn't. It's something insecure people imagine exists.

You just never lived it, that's all. I did.

How do you know? I didn't think much of myself in High School, and yet looking back I was the Captain of everything. People who think there is a pecking order have divorced themselves from reality so they can enforce this notion that everyone is out to get them.

You are really trying your hardest to put all the blame on him for everything that happened to him and give him zero credit for how he's managed to get past it and write this to help others do the same.

But he hasn't. Here he is, nearing middle age, complaining about what happened to him while he was in short pants. It's really silly and whiny, and he's coddling people who are just like him. He isn't a soldier who volunteered and lost a limb, or damaged his quality of life for years to come; he's some ******** child wanting me to feel sorry for him. Like I said, in that video/poem he never acknowledges that lying is wrong which is something he did. He only points fingers at people who made fun of him for it. That may be wrong too, but he clearly hasn't moved past it because he didn't even self-reflect on something it took me two seconds to notice: the OTHER people involved in HIS story. It's all about him. That poem: all about him.

You clearly missed the point of what I said. For all the hurt it caused him, his grandmother got the worst of it. She could've been thrown in prison over that incident, could've been barred from ever being around children again for "karate chopping" someone she was responsible for. That's horrifying that throughout that whole poem he never once said "oh yeah, I'm sorry for lying, for stringing along all those people, for getting embarrassed over something stupid like falling out of a tree".

 

[Optimus_Prime_]

Just FYI, that disclaimer won't stop a mod/admin from infracting you for posting it.

Okay, they're welcome to remove it then.

 

[Hotwire]

No, there isn't. It's something insecure people imagine exists.

How do you know? I didn't think much of myself in High School, and yet looking back I was the Captain of everything. People who think there is a pecking order have divorced themselves from reality so they can enforce this notion that everyone is out to get them.

But he hasn't. Here he is, nearing middle age, complaining about what happened to him while he was in short pants. It's really silly and whiny, and he's coddling people who are just like him. He isn't a soldier who volunteered and lost a limb, or damaged his quality of life for years to come; he's some ******** child wanting me to feel sorry for him. Like I said, in that video/poem he never acknowledges that lying is wrong which is something he did. He only points fingers at people who made fun of him for it. That may be wrong too, but he clearly hasn't moved past it because he didn't even self-reflect on something it took me two seconds to notice: the OTHER people involved in HIS story. It's all about him. That poem: all about him.

You clearly missed the point of what I said. For all the hurt it caused him, his grandmother got the worst of it. She could've been thrown in prison over that incident, could've been barred from ever being around children again for "karate chopping" someone she was responsible for. That's horrifying that throughout that whole poem he never once said "oh yeah, I'm sorry for lying, for stringing along all those people, for getting embarrassed over something stupid like falling out of a tree".

 

[Optimus_Prime_]

So you don't find anything funny or ironic about the story involving his grandmother?

 

[Erzengel]

There wasn't a pecking order in my school.

We did have the jocks, nerds, metalheads, goths, hip hop, and those who didn't fall into a group.

But there were groups and while there were "stragglers" who kept to themselves, there wasn't hierarchy at all. Actually, a lot of the groups intermingled all the time.

Don't get me wrong, this wasn't a utopia, there were fights and what not but even some of the smarter kids were jocks as wells.

 

[NickNitro]

In HS I didnt see the bullying as much as in elementary school.