Bullied or Over-Sensitive?

[Norrin Parker]

Seriously we're defending bullying now? Only a bully would try and justify it. I swear I'm actually sickened by this thread.

 

[Hotwire]

So you don't find anything funny or ironic about the story involving his grandmother?

I saw the story about his grandmother as background. It was there to explain how he got the first nickname. He did something that kids do and it turned into something much bigger and, while I take it everything worked out, he was from that day, labeled. The poem is NOT all bout him feeling sorry for himself, no matter how much you try to see it that way. He's telling the people listening that he went through what they did. That he understands how they feel. He tells them that they have to believe that bullies were wrong. You're just too hung up on his original story to see that.

And with that, I'm done trying to explain it to you.

 

[Vid Electricz]

Yes, we live in a society that increasingly encourages helicopter parenting and parents who, unbeknownst that to their childrens own detriment, are shiedling them from any sort of experiential event where the children can grow and learn- which sometimes includes being knocked down by the world.

That said, hurtful, hateful words and bullying behaviour are "wrong". The problem comes in trying to define what "bullying" actually is. Where do we (schools, workplaces, etc...) Stop in trying to limit or eradicate this behaviour. Physical brutality can be curtailed on the premises, but bullying is often not phyiscal but verbal. Where is the line drawn? Is a teasing or playful comment from one classmate to another bullying? This is where things get murky.

 

[Optimus_Prime_]

Yes, we live in a society that increasingly encourages helicopter parenting and parents who, unbeknownst that to their childrens own detriment, are shiedling them from any sort of experiential event where the children can grow and learn- which sometimes includes being knocked down by the world.

That said, hurtful, hateful words and bullying behaviour are "wrong". The problem comes in trying to define what "bullying" actually is. Where do we (schools, workplaces, etc...) Stop in trying to limit or eradicate this behaviour. Physical brutality can be curtailed on the premises, but bullying is often not phyiscal but verbal. Where is the line drawn? Is a teasing or playful comment from one classmate to another bullying? This is where things get murky.

This is a good comment.

I used to say "gay" a lot for example, now I think it's wrong because being gay is just fine and shouldn't be associated with something being displeasing.

However being gay is sort of not a choice either.

 

[Mad Ones]

Blaming a victim of bullying for being too sensitive is like saying a rape victim deserved it. Victim blaming and shaming is never good, and perpetuates and justifies horrible things. I can't believe it's even a question.

 

[Norrin Parker]

Blaming a victim of bullying for being too sensitive is like saying a rape victim deserved it. Victim blaming and shaming is never good, and perpetuates and justifies horrible things. I can't believe it's even a question.

Well said.

 

[Optimus_Prime_]

Blaming a victim of bullying for being too sensitive is like saying a rape victim deserved it. Victim blaming and shaming is never good, and perpetuates and justifies horrible things. I can't believe it's even a question.

Getting pick on at school is not rape. Rape is a physical assault.

 

[terry78]

It's way too subjective a trait. Hell, even nerds bully people that they view as beneath them or naive or stupid about certain ****. We're all bullies to an extent.

 

[Mad Ones]

Getting pick on at school is not rape. Rape is a physical assault.

When did I say they're the exact same thing? What I said was both are perpetuated and excused because the victims in these situations are blamed and those responsible are excused, creating incredibly serious consequences. Bullying is a very serious thing, especially when every day I hear about another kid who has killed himself because of bullying, and I would never call them over-sensetive and "*********."

 

[Hotwire]

Getting pick on at school is not rape. Rape is a physical assault.

That's true. However, saying a victim of bullying is just being too sensitive is still blaming them for their own torment.

 

[TheBat812]

Bullying and having a thick skin are two separate things. Having thick skin is learning to take criticism and turn it into something positive, bullying is being mean for the sake of it and/or to make yourself feel better by belittling someone else.

 

[Hotwire]

Bullying and having a thick skin are two separate things. Having thick skin is learning to take criticism and turn it into something positive, bullying is being mean for the sake of it and/or to make yourself feel better by belittling someone else.

Bingo.

 

[NickNitro]

Getting pick on at school is not rape. Rape is a physical assault.

Sorry Optimus but it was a good point. Getting picked on at school a lot of times has resulted in physical assault. I'd cut my losses on this one man.

 

[Optimus_Prime_]

That's true. However, saying a victim of bullying is just being too sensitive is still blaming them for their own torment.

Well, take murder for example. If someone asks you to murder them, it's still not legal. The perpetrator wouldn't be protected in the eyes of the law, but in that case it could be said the victim was "to blame". However the problem is, of course, that the victim could've changed their mind...later on...whoops, they're dead.

Bullying and having a thick skin are two separate things. Having thick skin is learning to take criticism and turn it into something positive, bullying is being mean for the sake of it and/or to make yourself feel better by belittling someone else.

I'm not so sure. Some bullying seems very real and leaves evidence of being very real, then again a lot of it seems to boil down to not being able to take a joke.

Look at Chris Christie for example; he gets made fun of for being fat but he makes fun of himself for being fat as well, so he's in on the joke. He has a sense of humor about himself, so it's pretty obvious he's not offended when David Letterman goes off on how fat he is.

 

[Optimus_Prime_]

Sorry Optimus but it was a good point. Getting picked on at school a lot of times has resulted in physical assault. I'd cut my losses on this one man.

Logical fallacy: slippery slope.

Anything that goes to being "physical assault" is illegal on it's face. However everything leading up to an assault can be and usually is pretty legal. So no, that's an absolutely dumb point. Thinking about raping someone is not illegal. Acting on the desire to rape someone is illegal. Lusting after someone, yeah that can lead to rape, taking someone to your house to sleep off a night of drunkeness, yeah that can lead to rape too, but if the rapist fights that urge he's not a rapist. What you're talking about now is thought crime.

Might as well bring out Minority Report now.

 

[Hotwire]

Well, take murder for example. If someone asks you to murder them, it's still not legal. The perpetrator wouldn't be protected in the eyes of the law, but in that case it could be said the victim was "to blame". However the problem is, of course, that the victim could've changed their mind...later on...whoops, they're dead.

So, you're now saying that some kids might be asking others to bully them? And that's how you can justify blaming the victim?

 

[NickNitro]

People associate physical violence with bullying all the time. As soon as I hear the phrase "being bullied" I picture a kid getting shoved into a locker. I feel like somewhere in this argument someones contradicting themselves...I just can't seem to find it.

 

[Optimus_Prime_]

People associate physical violence with bullying all the time. As soon as I hear the phrase "being bullied" I picture a kid getting shoved into a locker. I feel like somewhere in this argument someones contradicting themselves...I just can't seem to find it.

To me assault is assault and people whitewash when they call it bullying. You can call it whatever you want, to me though physical assault crosses a legal line that's already been drawn in the sand.

We have lockers at work. If one of my employees shoved a forty-something into one of them I wouldn't call it bullying. I'd call the cops and press assault charges.

I never understood why when it happens in a school and it's 17 year old doing it to a 14 year old "oh that's bullying". I think it's just so they can avoid getting authorities involved.

 

[NickNitro]

I'm talking about children.

I think this is getting muddled together with how we'd act as adults to "bullying" as to how we act towards it when we are 8-18.....At this point, when you're an adult its assault and you should be fired/put in jail if necessary.

If a 5th grader takes a 4th grader and shoves his head in the toilet I don't think we as adults look at it as the same type of "assault" that you are trying to describe.

 

[Optimus_Prime_]

I'm talking about children.

I think this is getting muddled together with how we'd act as adults to "bullying" as to how we act towards it when we are 8-18.....At this point, when you're an adult its assault and you should be fired/put in jail if necessary.

If a 5th grader takes a 4th grader and shoves his head in the toilet I don't think we as adults look at it as the same type of "assault" that you are trying to describe.

That's still assault, legally speaking, even if they are minors.

I think the only real reason for this is no one wants to see their kid go to juvenile hall. Schools don't really want cops on the premises and parents naturally stick up for their kids. So it gets dealt with in house, and isn't made public. If you are between the ages of 8-18, and say, for example you videotaped classmates fighting, they could easily get assault charges over this. It's just that legal entanglements are a pain in the a** and the adults would rather shield kids from those types of consequences.

This is especially true of rich parents, especially if the parents' are friends outside of school. Kind of hard to be like "Oh, hey Dave, remember that time I sent your kid to prison...good times, good times".

 

[NickNitro]

Its funny, I am by no means advocating bullying at all. I think its a horrible side of humans that needs to be dealt with. You just never heard about it on a social scale like this before. Children have been picked on and bullied since the beginning of time. I can not believe a child died because of it, its absolutely horrible.

Its really sad we have to have this discussion in the first place.

I feel like we've gotten off topic a bit. I think yes it is technically assault, in an age where everyone is sue happy, no one wants lawyers or a courtroom involved.

Ill just refer back to what I originally said and leave it at that. The child is not over sensitive, possibly in adults eyes they may look that way, but to a child whos developing basic social skills its just reacting to them.

 

[The Guard]

No one, but no one, is saying that bullies should “get a pass”.

And no one is defending bullying itself.

All that's being pointed out that is like any social interaction, bullying, as a social phenomenon, can have its positives.

This was a conversation about the reactions people have to bullying as a phenomenon, and its long overdue.

Also, getting bullied doesn't really give someone a thick skin. It actually tends to do the opposite by dropping their self esteem.

It depends on how you react to it. Bullying doesn't just have to lower one's self esteem any more than being gently ribbed by one's friends does. Heck, bullying in high school actually made me feel better about myself as a person.

Children being bullied and someone calling you an a** hole when you're 25 are 2 completely different things. When you're a child, you are more responsive to negative actions than say a person who's lived through life for a few decades. When a child falls and scrapes his/her knee, they cry. When an adult does the same, they curse and swear. Does this mean the childs weak? No, it means to me that they are just more emotionally sensative and have not yet been able to properly develop their feelings.

True, but at some point, when you scrape your knee you don't cry about it anymore. This is a similar dynamic.

When a child is called names in school, feels neglected from their peers its a much more dramatic feeling. I agree you have to develop a tough skin, but that takes time. These young kids, they are JUST starting to learn how to interact in social groups, make friends, etc.

This is kind of the point. They shouldn’t be "JUST starting to learn" these things by a certain age. We shouldn't live in a culture or a society that hasn't taught kids to ignore the things ignorant, hurtful people say and to interpret the meanings behind people's words and actions beyond the surface. In other words, we shouldn't live in a society where people don't know how to deal with bullies. And arguably, we don't. The information is out there.

When you have someone who is pushing you, hitting you, always cutting you down verbally, as a child you feel it a lot more because its all new to you. You haven't have time to learn to deal with difficult circumstances in life.

Then perhaps they should be taught to deal with difficult circumstances. For years, people have given kids options to deal with bullies, explained the psychology of bullies to kids, etc.

There is a pecking order. You just never lived it, that's all. I did.

No there’s not.

There’s an ILLUSION of one. That people buy into. The illusion is maintained by those who benefit by it, the same as many power dynamics are. There is no reason high school has to be what people think it is, anymore than society itself has to be what people think it is, and there are plenty of people who figure that out, and stop buying into the nonsense, both in high school and beyond.

Blaming a victim of bullying for being too sensitive is like saying a rape victim deserved it. Victim blaming and shaming is never good, and perpetuates and justifies horrible things. I can't believe it's even a question.

Not really.

Blaming a victim for being too sensitive is blaming them for their reaction, in other words, it's saying they are responsible for their reaction, which they are, to some extent.

It's different than actually blaming them for how they were victimized.

As far as the rest of that...I’d best tread carefully here.

Blaming the victim is wrong.

However…sometimes the victim’s reaction is counterproductive, and can cause more emotional and psychological damage in the long run than the initial trauma of their victimization.

Interestingly enough, bullying can have a psychological response and impact that is similar to what can occur with victims of rape. Not the same, mind you, but many of the same self doubts, insecurities and physical and sexual hangups can arise.

Largely because both bullying and rape have their roots in issues of power and control.

Bullying, bad relationships, adversity of all kinds…all these things can end up ultimately having a positive impact on someone’s life. It's all about how you respond to the world around you, and the work you do on YOU. You don't have to let idiots or weak, cruel people make you miserable or feel bad about yourself.

 

[Optimus_Prime_]

This is kind of the point. They shouldn’t be "JUST starting to learn" these things by a certain age. We shouldn't live in a culture or a society that hasn't taught kids to ignore the things ignorant, hurtful people say and to interpret the meanings behind people's words and actions beyond the surface. In other words, we shouldn't live in a society where people don't know how to deal with bullies. And arguably, we don't. The information is out there.

100% agreed right here.

I hate that parents don't teach their kids to simply ignore bullies. I hate how we promote things like "walking away" as if it's bad.

One of the worst things you can do to a bully is smile and say "I'm done having this discussion" and walk away.

No there’s not.

There’s an ILLUSION of one. That people buy into. The illusion is maintained by those who benefit by it, the same as many power dynamics are. There is no reason high school has to be what it is, and there are plenty of people who figure that out, and stop buying into the nonsense.

This is one of the things that really helped me.

My old roommate was a DJ, I mentioned him earlier, and he was very boisterous at times and would say "I run this town" or "I'll make it so you don't have a friend in this town" to people to intimidate them. He couldn't do crap on a stick. But people who bought into that cult of personality really believed that, and he took advantage of some of them as a result.

Just like you say too, the illusion is there, and it's perpetrated by those who benefit from it. Usually because they benefit. But in my view it's usually an empty threat.

Bullying, bad relationships, adversity of all kinds…all these things can end up ultimately having a positive impact on someone’s life. It's all about how you respond to the world around you, and the work you do on YOU. You don't have to let idiots or weak, cruel people make you miserable or feel bad about yourself.

Like I say, I laugh at them. I laugh at them because what do they know. I laugh at them because what can they do? Beat me? I've been beaten up before.

 

[Optimus_Prime_]

So, you're now saying that some kids might be asking others to bully them? And that's how you can justify blaming the victim?

No, like the Guard is pointing out, I'm blaming victims, like Shane there, who I feel make mountains out of mole hills for their reaction.

"Waaaahhhh! I got called Pork Chop".

La-Di-Freaking-Da!

 

[Destructus86]

Getting pick on at school is not rape. Rape is a physical assault.

And bullying is a psychological assault that can cause severe scars later in life. Same as rape.

I was bullied every single day of my life during middle school and all the way through high school. I didn't kill myself or go on a shooting rampage...but that's because I had good parents who actually did their job. And yes, that makes a huge difference.