Burned Out With Comic Movie Genre

[Tony Stark]

People can moan about Spidey, FF and X-Men being the hands of outside studios but you have to look at the position Marvel were in when they sold those rights, inches from bankruptcy. But for Sony and Fox, Marvel in all likelihood would not exist today.

This is 100% false, not even close to being correct.

Marvel filed for Chapter 11 Bankruptcy in 1996 (restructuring). The other thing you have to realize with this is there was a comic book bubble in the 1990's that was bound to burst and took a huge toll on comic book companies, including DC, but DC was not publically traded Marvel was.

Prior to MEG buying out Marvel Entertainment in 1991, Marvel had been selling character rights to generate revenue, which culminated in Punisher and Captain America being made. Spider-man was sold to Carolco studios with James Cameron to helm. The rights reverted with Carolco went bankrupt in 1996. Sony made the deal for the Spider-man rights in 1999.

In 1997 Toy Biz and MEG merged and ended Marvel's bankrupcy filing. This was the time that Arad took over, who was the head of Toy Biz at the time. Arad was the one that ushered in most of the major film deals when the company had financial stability and was no longer in bankrupcy.

So the idea that Marvel was just selling these rights to generate cash, because they were about to fold is patently false. They brokered some very bad deals to the extent that they had to sue Sony pictures over Spider-man as Sony was actively marketing and profiting off Spider-man, without consent of Marvel.

http://www.cnn.com/2003/SHOWBIZ/Movies/02/26/film.spiderman.reut/

 

[Erzengel]

And now Arad is trying to destroy what he once help make.

 

[CyclopsWasRight]

There's not enough in that universe that I really like to make it interesting to me. I loved Winter Soldier and Iron Man 3, I really like Iron Man and I like The First Avenger and Guardians of the Galaxy decently enough though they're not great, imo. The rest though I feel range from bland and meh (both Thor movies, Iron Man 2, The Incredible Hulk) to awful (The Avengers). And as such, I just don't have much interest going forward outside of Captain America 3 so far. When, for me, it's got at best a 50% success rate, it's hard to have much interest. On top of that, I can't put my finger on it, but something about just that universe in general feels stale to me. I'll probably be taken to Avengers 2 by someone and maybe Ant-Man, but if I wasn't I'd probably just skip them and watch them when they hit rental places like I was going to do with Guardians until someone brought me along. And I used to be really excited about this universe, so that's really disappointing to me.

I found TIH, Thor 2, IM2, IM3 and Avengers to be meh with GOTG and Iron Man excellent and Thor and Cap very good.

I haven't seen Cap 2 yet so I may see cap 3 but other than GOTG nothing is a must see. Though Daredevil and Doc Strange look interesting.

I generally view Disney/Marvel as Good but not the greatest thing since sliced bread

To be fair, Marvel jumped on the bandwagon when they saw how much success Spider-Man and X-Men had.

Precisely. Even though they weren't big successes Daredevil and the Fantastic Four movies helped continue public awareness in CBMs

People can moan about Spidey, FF and X-Men being the hands of outside studios but you have to look at the position Marvel were in when they sold those rights, inches from bankruptcy.

People just need to stop acting as if Fox/Sony are wrong to use what they bought. Marvel sold them of free will not at gunpoint. If there's someone to "blame" for them having the rights it's the ones who sold them not the the ones who bought them

But for Sony and Fox, Marvel in all likelihood would not exist today.

Exactly. They built the road on which Marvel drives.

 

[Erzengel]

I don't think Fox or Sony are wrong to use what they bought. They just need to just be consistent with quality.

X-Men 1 and 2
X-Men: The Last Stand and Wolverine Origins
X-Men: FC, The Wolverine, DOFP

Fantastic Four & Rise of the Silver Surfer

Then with Sony,
Spider-Man 1 & 2
Spider-Man 3
Amazing Spider-Man
Amazing Spider-Man 2

 

[CyclopsWasRight]

I don't think Fox or Sony are wrong to use what they bought. They just need to just be consistent with quality.

X-Men 1 and 2
X-Men: The Last Stand and Wolverine Origins
X-Men: FC, The Wolverine, DOFP

Fantastic Four & Rise of the Silver Surfer

Then with Sony,
Spider-Man 1 & 2
Spider-Man 3
Amazing Spider-Man
Amazing Spider-Man 2

Nice use of emoticons

Mostly agree with those "ratings" too

 

[Tony Stark]

People just need to stop acting as if Fox/Sony are wrong to use what they bought. Marvel sold them of free will not at gunpoint. If there's someone to "blame" for them having the rights it's the ones who sold them not the the ones who bought them

No one is saying that. It wasn't Marvel's fault they made the deal, they weren't poised to be a movie studio at that point. It was Arad's fault for signing bad deals. The fact that George Lucas on his own was able to broker a better deal with 20th Century Fox, with and unknown entity in Star Wars, than what Arad brokered with Sony, Fox and New Line, shows how bad the deal was. Yes that was Arad and Marvel's fault.

I don't mind those companies holding the rights so long as they produce quality material.

Exactly. They built the road on which Marvel drives.

No not "exactly". It was Marvel's production team that were producing those movies, approving the scripts and casting. They were just using money put up front from those studios. You act like Marvel was carpet bagging off the success of those studios until they could do their own thing.

The reason they formed Marvel Studios in the first place was that they had put a lot of time and effort in producing those movies and were seeing none of the profits off those films. They took out the loan to do Iron Man and The Incredible Hulk, and it was a huge gamble. Fortunately it paid off big time.

 

[marvelrobbins]

I don't think Fox or Sony are wrong to use what they bought. They just need to just be consistent with quality.

X-Men 1 and 2
X-Men: The Last Stand and Wolverine Origins
X-Men: FC, The Wolverine, DOFP

Fantastic Four & Rise of the Silver Surfer

Then with Sony,
Spider-Man 1 & 2
Spider-Man 3
Amazing Spider-Man
Amazing Spider-Man 2

I pretty much agree with you.We might disagree with me liking the daredevil director's cut.But on X-Men,Spider-man and past FF films I agree.

 

[Doc Ock]

I think Fox has fixed the wrongs the did with X-Men, I'm still worried about FF though. Sony is certainly in a state where they need to fix wrongs now IMO.

 

[marvelrobbins]

I found TIH, Thor 2, IM2, IM3 and Avengers to be meh with GOTG and Iron Man excellent and Thor and Cap very good.

I haven't seen Cap 2 yet so I may see cap 3 but other than GOTG nothing is a must see. Though Daredevil and Doc Strange look interesting.

I generally view Disney/Marvel as Good but not the greatest thing since sliced bread



Precisely. Even though they weren't big successes Daredevil and the Fantastic Four movies helped continue public awareness in CBMs



People just need to stop acting as if Fox/Sony are wrong to use what they bought. Marvel sold them of free will not at gunpoint. If there's someone to "blame" for them having the rights it's the ones who sold them not the the ones who bought them



Exactly. They built the road on which Marvel drives.

The best marvel studios films for me was Winter SOldier,First Iron man and The Incredible Hulk.As time goes on avengers goes down and first cap goes up In my book.Cap has been only consent quality franchise.I have serious concerns on cap 3 of having stark take over film.

I had major problems with both thor films and consider best use of thor in Avengers.I really dislike Iron Man 3.It's in X-Men the last stand and Spider-man 3 terrority for me.While X-Men Is my favorate Last Stand Is pretty low film In my rankings.I can agree with you on Iron Man 2.

Cap 3 Is really only Marvel studios production that has my attention.That and netflix Dardevil series since it is based on frank Miller's daredevil.Age of ultron has attention too but if Cap is killed or thought to be dead and Avengers 3 Is mostly Stark with newbees from Age of ultron and new films Inbetween AOU and Avengers 3 my Intrest goes down.But I also don't have much intrest In Sinister Six If it's a spider-man reboot.I never liked the idea of villain solo film already but rebooting spider-mana gain would be deal breaker for me.

I agree on those acting like fox and sony are evil and we are here because of what fox and sony started after B&R fiasco.

Let's remember Kevin Feige came to marvel because he worked for Lauren Shueller Donnor on first X-Men.

Marvel sold X-Men rights to Fox In 1993/1994 but didn't file for bankrupticy till 1996.Marvel was trying to set up deals In 1990's with studios to make films.Untill Toz Biz took over In 1998 that was Arad's job with marvel work on getting marvel films and TV shows made.

 

[Tony Stark]

I agree that the modern day superhero movies have the X-men and Spider-man films to thank for their success. I disagree that Fox and Sony had everything to do with their success and Marvel didn't have anything to do with it other than selling the rights.

The films were co-produced. Yes Feige worked for Donner, but was hired onto x-men because he was a "comic book geek" and wanted to rely on his knowledge, where Singer was very open that he wasn't familiar with X-men when he was hired on.

Feige was quickly offered a position with Marvel, and other than Spider-man 1 was a co-producer or executive producer on every single Marvel film since.

 

[Saitou Hajime]

The fact that George Lucas on his own was able to broker a better deal with 20th Century Fox, with an unknown entity in Star Wars, than what Arad brokered with Sony, Fox and New Line, shows how bad the deal was.

The fact that Star Wars was an unknown property at the time is what makes Lucas' situation incomparable to Arad's. Fox didn't understand what they had; Sony, Fox, and the others did. Just look at how Fox has determinedly held ANH hostage all these years and tell me that Fox would have let Lucas get away with rights to all sequels and merchandising if they cared about SW back then as they do now.

 

[8Diagrams(WU)]

I will always watch and the comic book movie will continue on as a genre of its own. There will never be shortage of these films.

However, I am starting to feel a bit indiferent. Im starting to notice a certain formulaic taste to the Marvel movies to the point there is no replay value for those films to me. One and done. Possibly the Disney influence, but I think the genre needs more variety and I think the DC movies will hopefully bring that.

 

[spider-neil]

I don't think Fox or Sony are wrong to use what they bought. They just need to just be consistent with quality.

X-Men 1 and 2
X-Men: The Last Stand and Wolverine Origins
X-Men: FC, The Wolverine, DOFP

Fantastic Four & Rise of the Silver Surfer

Then with Sony,
Spider-Man 1 & 2
Spider-Man 3
Amazing Spider-Man
Amazing Spider-Man 2

I've enjoyed all of the X-Men movies (to an extent) but X:FC is my favourite by miles.
Don't like any of the Wolverine movies.

I've enjoyed all of the Spider-Man movies but I'm getting tired of the love interest plot line.

I think Fox has done a terrible job with the Fantastic Four licence. They haven't got a clue how to handle that licence. FF is the licence I would most like to see Marvel get their hands on.

Sony have made SM2 (I think we can agree that is a good Spider-Man movie).
Fox have made X:FC (I think we can agree that is a good X-Men movie).
A no stage have Fox made a good FF movie and that doesn't look like changing any time soon.

 

[Erzengel]

Well I feel that the X-Men movies except for First Class are essentially Wolverine movies. I mean this is being discussed in the Best of 2014 thread. But Fox is entirely dependent on Wolverine. I'm hoping Apocalypse is just about the Core 5 with Xavier. We'll see.

While I've given up on watching Spider-Man movies in the theaters, I will still watch them via Netflix. I do somewhat agree with the whole love interest but in terms of the damsel in distress which they've done for the most part in all 3 Raimi films and to lesser extents in the Webb films.

If you think about it how many films don't have some sort of girlfriend/love interest dynamic? TWS, Avengers, maybe Iron Man and X-Men First Class kinda?

I don't necessarily mind it but I prefer it just be the constant theme.

 

[marvelrobbins]

Well I feel that the X-Men movies except for First Class are essentially Wolverine movies. I mean this is being discussed in the Best of 2014 thread. But Fox is entirely dependent on Wolverine. I'm hoping Apocalypse is just about the Core 5 with Xavier. We'll see.

While I've given up on watching Spider-Man movies in the theaters, I will still watch them via Netflix. I do somewhat agree with the whole love interest but in terms of the damsel in distress which they've done for the most part in all 3 Raimi films and to lesser extents in the Webb films.

If you think about it how many films don't have some sort of girlfriend/love interest dynamic? TWS, Avengers, maybe Iron Man and X-Men First Class kinda?

I don't necessarily mind it but I prefer it just be the constant theme.

I disagree on DOFP being wolverine films.It Is essentilly FC2 co starring wolverine with extended cameos by most of OT cast If we are honest.

You better give up on Xavier and so called core 5 with Apocalypse.It's almost certinly going to focus on on Xavier,Magneto,and Mystique with Beast,APocalypse,and wolverine In Co-starinng roles and Quicksilver,Cyclops,Jean,Storm,and whoever else Is in film In supporting roles.

 

[Erzengel]

Wolverine is the vehicle to pretty much jump start this story. He goes back in time, he finds Xavier, they go get Magneto. The only thing I was surprised was that he didn't save the day at the end. I dunno, it's hard to argue that he didn't get the most screen time out of everybody and not just actors but characters.

 

[marvelrobbins]

Wolverine took back seat seat once they recruited Quicksilver except for trying to guide Xavier.

To say Wolverine overshadowed film like say Last Stand Is just wrong.

Magneto's escape-It focused more on quicksilver and Xavier.He during sequenze was mostly just muscle for Xavier
On plane-he just sat there during the 2 Xavier and Magneto scenes
paris-he really did nothing but wig out when he saw Stryker
1973 Climax-he worked with beats In fighting one of sentinles protypes and was then taken out of action by Magneto

 

[Erzengel]

To say Wolverine took a back seat is wrong. He's one of the leads of this movie.

 

[marvelrobbins]

Yes he did take back seat to FC actors as film progressed

 

[Shikamaru]

^ Except that for once, he wasn't the main lead of a film he's in. It was Xavier and Magneto, much like in First Class. They finally put him in a more Han Solo role than trying to make him both Luke Skywalker and Han Solo at the same time.

 

[Tony Stark]

Sorry, but no. He was pretty much the main protagonist, the whole story is told through his eyes. The final scene in the movie is about him.

 

[Shikamaru]

^ Xavier, and to a lesser extent Magneto, were the ones that had actual character arcs. Even in terms of screen time, they (or at least Xavier for sure) got more this time around. Wolverine was barely present in the third act. It was, overall, far more of an Xavier/Magneto story than a Wolverine story. I agree Wolverine's been overused prior to that, but DOFP was a step in the right direction IMO. For the first time, Singer managed to decently balance his cast. Which makes me cautiously optimistic for the future of Scott, Jean and Ororo.

 

[Flint Marko]

^ Xavier, and to a lesser extent Magneto, were the ones that had actual character arcs. Even in terms of screen time, they (or at least Xavier for sure) got more this time around. Wolverine was barely present in the third act. It was, overall, far more of an Xavier/Magneto story than a Wolverine story. I agree Wolverine's been overused prior to that, but DOFP was a step in the riht direction IMO. For the first time, Singer managed to decently balance the cast.

I think it was a good balance of having Wolverine, the most marketable X-man, play an important role while still giving most of the "meat" of the story to Fassbender and McAvoy.

 

[Erzengel]

Out of all the X-Men movies, DOFP does balance better than the previous X-Men movies, but I still felt it was mostly Wolverine.

 

[Kahran Ramsus]

If I had to pick just ONE main character for DOFP, it would be Xavier. But Wolverine is 1A.