Burton's Joker - Have a question,

[Catman]

I doubt Jon Peters was that much of an influence since its something Burton wanted to do since the very beginning. Its even in his treatment that he wrote in 1985.

 

[HR-PUFF&STUFF]

I doubt Jon Peters was that much of an influence since its something Burton wanted to do since the very beginning. Its even in his treatment that he wrote in 1985.

if the repulicans can blame the demacrats for all the worlds ills then i can blame jon peters for anything i want.

 

[Mr.Census]

the space between my balls and my ass smells like fish mixed with b.o. t: mmmmmmmmm

 

[Superwoman Prime]

Think I'm going to be sick...

 

[CLARKY]

Which is almost logical thing to do. Those two guys hate the guts of each other but... no reason for that. Other than it is supposed to be the traditional way.

yeah. That's why I accepted it, ... because it's "almost logical", and I keep thinking it was "an almost logical thing to do" but yeah it could have been more traditionnal.
I think it's not as blasphemous as die-hard fans claimed it is.
I totally agree with U.

I think it was Jon Peters' idea actually, and Sam Hamm was against it.
The Joker in the movie is nothing like the 60's version. It's closer to the Englehart version with a bit of Alan Moore's.

-ah I didnt know.
-agreed.

 

[DocLathropBrown]

I read somewhere that Burton had made the Joker the murderer of the Wayne in order to make the fight more personal between he and batman, and in order to make more "ultimate vilain"

Exactly, Burton came up with the idea to help make them bitter enemies. In the time frame of the movie, they haven't been fighting each other long enough for it to make a difference. In the books, Batman and the Joker have been fighting so long that they have a bitter, deep-rooted hate for each other.

That point is beautifully illustrated in The Killing Joke, where Batman talks to the "Joker" at the beginning, talking about how one day, they'll end up killing each other. Since TKJ was one of Burton's key inspirations, it makes sense that the dichotomy/rivaly/bitter history between Bats and the Joker in that book helped Burton make the decision he did.

As far as I'm concerned, people who think that Bruce getting revenge on his parents' murder would end his quest are missing the point of Batman. It's never been about revenge. It's been about vengeance, and a single person (As Batman Begins points out) is never truly held responsible. Naiper pulled the trigger (like Joe Chill in Begins) but he was a victim of his life, of the decaying, rotting core of Gotham. It was the evil in the city overall that drove Naiper to crime, and in the end, drove him to kill the Waynes. As Ra's says in BB: "Create enough hunger, and everybody starves."

It doesn't matter who killed his parents, because in the end, whether or not he catches the guy resonsible, there was something larger that drove the man to do it.... the city itself. A mid-70s Batman comic (I can't remember the particular issue) has Batman saying he "dedicated [himself] to ridding Gotham of the crime that took [his] parents' lives." It is crime as a whole that killed his parents. If somebody punches you in the face, you don't blame the hand, do you? It's just an extension of the true problem.

Naiper (Chill) was just an extention of the true thing that killed Bruce's parents: the criminal element in Gotham.

And on a larger scale, he'd never end his crusade upon finding his parents' killer, because the city has come to depend on him, and it would be folly for the city if he was to quit.

When people criticize B89 for Bruce killing his parents' killer, the same can be said of BB. His parents' killer is killed right before his eyes.... justice, right? Revenge found. And what's worse is that it's before he becomes Batman, not after, as it is in B89. Why be Batman at all, then? So on that level, BB is more easily criticized for the whole "If the killer's found, the motivation is gone" complaint.

When it comes down to it, you know what I just realized? B89/BR just get bashed for the sake of being bashed. And BB gets praised just because Bruce Wayne finally looks the part and we learn everything about his origin. Hardly enough to kiss Nolan's ass, if you ask me.

 

[El Payaso]

^ Applauds

 

[Superwoman Prime]

A worthwhile, true, and great post, DocLathropBrown.