The Dark Knight Caine Describes Ledger's Joker

[Octoberist]

I do think people fetishize the whole "realism" thing too much. I'd say a more appropriate word would be "grounded", or "gritty". From watching "Begins", I didn't get the impression that they were aiming for uber-realism. Rather, that they wanted to create a vision of Gotham that felt gritty, urban, and not too different from our own, because then when the spectacular DOES happen, it stands out all the more...

I've been saying that, but people don't listen for some odd reason. It's more realitic to a certain point, but it's not 'reality' based. Batman Begins is still a comic book movie without the flashy elements from other superhero films.

 

[batmop]

At this point I'm doubtful that Caine's words completely describe the Joker's look in the movie. I doubt he would give away such an important plot point so easily.

Also, the whole "falling into chemicals" thing was not ALWAYS in the comics.

Some of you seem to be forgetting the VERY first appearance of the Joker in a certain comic. Fact is, the first time Joker appeared in comics he was just "there" as if he appeared out of thin air. No explanation was given, and it was a mystery as to why or how he got his appearance. In that comic we also saw that more than just his face was white; parts of his body including his hands were white too.

I HIGHLY doubt we will get an explanation in the movie as to how the Joker got his look, and I also doubt that we will actually see him putting on makeup. I think his look will have no explanation in the movie. That would be as true to the comics as you can get since it would mirror the lack of explanation in the very first comic appearance.

 

[SuperJAK]

I HIGHLY doubt we will get an explanation in the movie as to how the Joker got his look, and I also doubt that we will actually see him putting on makeup. I think his look will have no explanation in the movie. That would be as true to the comics as you can get since it would mirror the lack of explanation in the very first comic appearance.

Except it will be obvious he is wearing make-up based on the leaked picture of him in the interrogation room.

 

[batmop]

Except it will be obvious he is wearing make-up based on the leaked picture of him in the interrogation room.

Will the leaked pic have the same lighting in the movie though? Doubt it. Under different lighting, will it still look obviously like make-up? Besides, we don't know if there will be anything under the make-up, like permanent white skin for example.

All I'm saying is if the movie has no explanation then it WILL be true to the comics. There have been consistent rumours that in some parts of the movie he looks like he's got makeup, but in other parts of the movie he looks permawhite.

Some people argue that with Joker's first comic appearance it looks like he's got make-up on even though there is no explanation. That would be exactly in-line with the movie if no explanation is given.

 

[SuperJAK]

Will the leaked pic have the same lighting in the movie though? Doubt it. Under different lighting, will it still look obviously like make-up? Besides, we don't know if there will be anything under the make-up, like permanent white skin for example.

Have you seen the leaked pic? The make-up is smudged all over his face. The white is mixing with the black and red make-up. You can see flesh tone. No lighting can hide the fact it is make-up.

All I'm saying is if the movie has no explanation then it WILL be true to the comics. There have been consistent rumours that in some parts of the movie he looks like he's got makeup, but in other parts of the movie he looks permawhite.

Rumours. But right now we have an actual quote from Micheal Caine, one of the lead actors in the movie, a highly respected one at that, describing how the character applies the make-up in the context of the film.

Some people argue that with Joker's first comic appearance it looks like he's got make-up on even though there is no explanation. That would be exactly in-line with the movie if no explanation is given.

I am all for that, but I don't think that is the case.

 

[Jokers_Wild]

Have you seen the leaked pic? The make-up is smudged all over his face. The white is mixing with the black and red make-up. You can see flesh tone. No lighting can hide the fact it is make-up.

Rumours. But right now we have an actual quote from Micheal Caine, one of the lead actors in the movie, a highly respected one at that, describing how the character applies the make-up in the context of the film.

I am all for that, but I don't think that is the case.

In the leaked pics, you can definitely see the black around the eyes running. But it's hard to tell whether some part of the white is permanent. He could use white make-up to even out some of the blotchy white spots. This debate will never die. t:

 

[metalhead971]

I'm kinda hoping it turns out he just wears make-up, so Nolan can stick it to the permawhite crowd and show 'em it doesn't take bleached skin to make a really great Joker.

 

[Eggyman]

I don't mind "complaints," good sir. It's the rabid individuals who are like, "I CAN'T BELIEVE HE'S FREAKING DOING THIS! THEY KILLED THE CHARACTER! DOWN WITH NOLAN!"

The reason I come here, good sir, is to discuss and debate certain things. My entire point is, the movie's 6 months away, no one here has seen it, and for some, the very IDEA of Joker wearing make-up signals the End of Days. No one even really knows in what context this might be. I'm all for a discussion of the topics. But, damn, some people really get their Batman underoos in a bunch over certain things.

I see your point, budfri.

On an altogether different topic -- have we really used that many names up on the hype that someone needs to call themselves batmop hahahahahahahahahahaha. That's a good one!

 

[GoogleMe94]

How could you like that version of the character when it's NEVER, EVER been like that?

exactly. i dont get some of these posters. newbs perhaps? i dunno. but i am still very skeptical. it doesnt sound to me like this will be a "classic" representation of the joker, but just makin him a phychopath. jack was a classic joker. hell, even ceaser romero was classic in his own right. but ledger....dont know yet. but im leaning on not. i really hope im not dissapointed with this version of joker, i feel like im setting myself up for disaster. first i was dissapointed with the drastic batmobile change, now i have to deal with the extreme change of the joker. gah, why cant they juist keep things untouched? they always gotta mess with 'em. i dont mind if he messed with other villians. even though he messed up scarecrow bigtime, i could handle it because hes not one of my ultra favorite villians or anything. but joker!?? you cant mess with HIM! nolan is doing to joker what burton did to penguin. hes changing the character ALOT. but i have hope that maybe ledger will be as awsome a character as burtons penguin was, but i have doubt in nolans vision a little bit.

as for the caine comment, i have a hard time taking him seriously because it sounds like hes just saying good stuff to get good publicity for the film. but like ive said, i will wait till the movie comes out to make up my own mind.

 

[Eggyman]

exactly. i dont get some of these posters. newbs perhaps? i dunno. but i am still very skeptical. it doesnt sound to me like this will be a "classic" representation of the joker, but just makin him a phychopath. jack was a classic joker. hell, even ceaser romero was classic in his own right. but ledger....dont know yet. but im leaning on not. i really hope im not dissapointed with this version of joker, i feel like im setting myself up for disaster. first i was dissapointed with the drastic batmobile change, now i have to deal with the extreme change of the joker. gah, why cant they juist keep things untouched? they always gotta mess with 'em.

as for the caine comment, i have a hard time taking him seriously because it sounds like hes just saying good stuff to get good publicity for the film. but like ive said, i will wait till the movie comes out to make up my own mind.

Wow, you just have good stuff to say about everyone LOL! And I don't see how you're 'setting yourself up for disaster', since you seem so negative about it all.

 

[GoogleMe94]

Wow, you just have good stuff to say about everyone LOL! And I don't see how you're 'setting yourself up for disaster', since you seem so negative about it all.

no im not "negative about everything". just joker mainly. everything else sounds fine BUT joker. in fact, thats the only thing ive been complaining about.

 

[GoogleMe94]

I've been saying that, but people don't listen for some odd reason. It's more realitic to a certain point, but it's not 'reality' based. Batman Begins is still a comic book movie without the flashy elements from other superhero films.

but whats wrong with those "flashy" elements? those are the elements that get ppl into theaters in the first place! i dont think any of those good big budget blockbusters would have made lots of money if they didnt have those big expensive fights/battles with the cool visuals. these kinds of movies are all about the visuals, and nolan seems to just want gritty but no "punch" to the visual effects. that is a flaw in his films i notice. hes got to up the ante with his batman films. burtons films were dark and gritty but the visual effects still had that kick that entertained ppl and was fun to look at and enjoy. why cant nolan do something similiar?

 

[Rory Gets Paid]

no im not "negative about everything". just joker mainly. everything else sounds fine BUT joker. in fact, thats the only thing ive been complaining about.

And where, may I ask, has complaining got you? lol

 

[bane]

but whats wrong with those "flashy" elements? those are the elements that get ppl into theaters in the first place! i dont think any of those good big budget blockbusters would have made lots of money if they didnt have those big expensive fights/battles with the cool visuals. these kinds of movies are all about the visuals, and nolan seems to just want gritty but no "punch" to the visual effects. that is a flaw in his films i notice. hes got to up the ante with his batman films. burtons films were dark and gritty but the visual effects still had that kick that entertained ppl and was fun to look at and enjoy. why cant nolan do something similiar?

LOL, you have some messed up perspective of how movies should be made...

 

[Eggyman]

no im not "negative about everything". just joker mainly. everything else sounds fine BUT joker. in fact, thats the only thing ive been complaining about.

Don't quote me if you can't do it right.

 

[The Guard]

I'm amazed at how many people think The Joker equals "chemicals". Yes, that is the accepted origin, but the character can easily exist without this origin, and even be better for it. Because he can have real motivations that go beyond "tragedy". That makes him so much scarier, in my mind.

I submit that Christopher Nolan's Joker will not be insane. People will wish to define him as such, but I believe we're going to see a Joker with some very obvious underlying sanity, who simply does horrible things because he no longer values society's restrictions.

 

[Rory Gets Paid]

I'm amazed at how many people think The Joker equals "chemicals". Yes, that is the accepted origin, but the character can easily exist without this origin, and even be better for it. Because he can have real motivations that go beyond "tragedy". That makes him so much scarier, in my mind.

I submit that Christopher Nolan's Joker will not be insane. People will wish to define him as such, but I believe we're going to see a Joker with some very obvious underlying sanity, who simply does horrible things because he no longer values society's restrictions.

Agreed!

 

[metalhead971]

I'm amazed at how many people think The Joker equals "chemicals". Yes, that is the accepted origin, but the character can easily exist without this origin, and even be better for it. Because he can have real motivations that go beyond "tragedy". That makes him so much scarier, in my mind.

I submit that Christopher Nolan's Joker will not be insane. People will wish to define him as such, but I believe we're going to see a Joker with some very obvious underlying sanity, who simply does horrible things because he no longer values society's restrictions.

Agreed. Permawhite and Joker do not have to go hand in hand.

 

[TheBatman072]

Agreed. Permawhite and Joker do not have to go hand in hand.

Not true.


Origin and Joker don't have to go hand in hand. Permawhite and Joker go hand in hand, go steady, and then go down on each other in the movie theater.

Becuase that's the way Joker was in his first appearences, of which Nolan's Joker is based on. Permawhite with no origin.

 

[terry78]

It's safe to assume that he either did it himself, or something happened to him physically that we will never know about that caused him to go that route. It's not anything remotely fantastic or supernatural that caused him to become Joker in any universe.

 

[Rory Gets Paid]

Not true.


Origin and Joker don't have to go hand in hand. Permawhite and Joker go hand in hand, go steady, and then go down on each other in the movie theater.

Becuase that's the way Joker was in his first appearences, of which Nolan's Joker is based on. Permawhite with no origin.

I doubt anyone was even thinking in terms of "permawhite" when Batman #1 was first released. The Joker is/was just the Joker, and everyone has their own idea of what he's all about, including Nolan.

 

[TheBatman072]

I doubt anyone was even thinking in terms of "permawhite" when Batman #1 was first released. The Joker is/was just the Joker, and everyone has their own idea of what he's all about, including Nolan.

Doesn't matter.

His skin, even everything below the neckline, was chalk white.


That's what the Joker was in his VERY first appearence. The first one. And how he has been for over 60 years.

 

[CaptainClown]

Well permawhite is what makes him different.

Description 1 - A serial killer who dresses as a clown. He applies make up and kills without mercy.

Description 2 - A serial killer who dresses as a clown. He has permanent make up and kills without mercy.

That white skin is what sets him apart

 

[Carnotaur3]

Well permawhite is what makes him different.

One could argue that it sort of hinders the uniqueness of him, given the fact that the vat of chemicals is too much like all other villian origins. Having nothing remotely connected whatsoever to the sanity (or insanity) of Joker can be considered more unique.

 

[Rory Gets Paid]

Well permawhite is what makes him different.

Description 1 - A serial killer who dresses as a clown. He applies make up and kills without mercy.

Description 2 - A serial killer who dresses as a clown. He has permanent make up and kills without mercy.

That white skin is what sets him apart

...to you. I personally could care less if he's permawhite or not. Actually, I think I more prefer make-up than some over-elaborate chemical tragedy.