Can Disney still buy Sony Pictures after the Fox deal?

Comic Book Guy

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I ask this question because I believe Sony will eventually sell off their movie business and I was wondering if this Fox deal would make Disney too big for the government to allow any future acquisition of another film studio? This is important because it has major ramifications for the Spider-Man property in the future and whether Marvel/Disney will be able to get full rights back.
 
Honestly, I would not want Disney to buy Sony. That would be bad for the industry if they bought not 1 but 2 of the big 6 companies, especially just for Spider-Man. Besides, Marvel might be able to buy him back if Sony gets desperate at some point. Totally possible with their recent blockbuster performances outside of Spider-Man, but Homecoming may have saved them. We shall see how Venom does.
 
That's the thing, I think they would be more apt to just sell the whole thing than simply selling Spider-Man back, which is their only viable franchise right now. You take Spider-Man away and that's a major part of their worth in a potential deal. They'd want to at least keep the Spider-Man right available to make a deal worth more for them.
 
I ask this question because I believe Sony will eventually sell off their movie business and I was wondering if this Fox deal would make Disney too big for the government to allow any future acquisition of another film studio? This is important because it has major ramifications for the Spider-Man property in the future and whether Marvel/Disney will be able to get full rights back.
Unlikely for a variety of reasons. The studio is fiscally unhealthy, it's most profitable film franchise belongs to a rival company, its other marketable franchises are now toxic (like Ghostbusters),and there will also be some regulatory hurdles once the Disney/Fox deal closes as well.

Disney could in theory buy the Spider-Man rights back though if Sony was willing to sell, but they currently are not.
 
From a legal standpoint, they probably could. From a logical standpoint, it makes no sense.

Acquire or trade some rights for the remaining spiderman rights and call it a day.
 
I think Sony won't sell or trade Spider-Man. They want that MCU money. I think they're happy with the partnership and they want to use the Spider-Verse to piggy back off the MCU, hence the whole is it MCU or not MCU, same reality but not MCU etc hot mess from earlier this year. I am betting their end game is getting the Spider-Verse in the MCU come time to renegotiate the Spider-Man rights passed Homecoming 2.

We'll see how it goes, but my bet is Sony remains in the picture for a while.
 
The thing is I can't envision a scenario where Sony would be willing to sell back the Spider-Man rights.
I think Sony won't sell or trade Spider-Man. They want that MCU money. I think they're happy with the partnership and they want to use the Spider-Verse to piggy back off the MCU, hence the whole is it MCU or not MCU, same reality but not MCU etc hot mess from earlier this year. I am betting their end game is getting the Spider-Verse in the MCU come time to renegotiate the Spider-Man rights passed Homecoming 2.

We'll see how it goes, but my bet is Sony remains in the picture for a while.
Unless the two movies bomb.
 
From a legal standpoint, they probably could. From a logical standpoint, it makes no sense.

Acquire or trade some rights for the remaining spiderman rights and call it a day.
That's another thing too. Sony Pictures is at risk of becoming Increasingly fiscally insolvent, and the idea that any long term solvency being because of the Spider-Man rights would be an embarrassment for them as a company. How badly managed do they have to be to rely on a competitor to survive?

If the Spidey spin off films bomb (very real possibility) even on that front they could be in very serious trouble.
 
Couldn't Sony trade the rights for a percentage of all future Spidey film profits. They can trust Marvel to make money for them better than they can trust themselves.
 
That's another thing too. Sony Pictures is at risk of becoming Increasingly fiscally insolvent, and the idea that any long term solvency being because of the Spider-Man rights would be an embarrassment for them as a company. How badly managed do they have to be to rely on a competitor to survive?

If the Spidey spin off films bomb (very real possibility) even on that front they could be in very serious trouble.

If Venom bombs, then the chances Disney end up with Spider-Man dramatically increase. It succeeds, Sony is going to use it as a bargaining chip and try to weasel deeper into the MCU circle. Which I don't blame them for, it's smart business.
 
But how would they reacquire Spidey just from Venom bombing? It puts Sony in a bad state going forward but it would only push them to sell all assets rather than just Spider-Man.
 
But how would they reacquire Spidey just from Venom bombing? It puts Sony in a bad state going forward but it would only push them to sell all assets rather than just Spider-Man.

Sony was talking about getting out of movies a while back, so if their plan to expand their own brand fails, then they have basically no franchise outside Spider-Man himself. May force Sony's hand to sell their assets outright. I don't think Disney would end up with them (I would say Comcast would based on interest in FOX), but even if Comcast got Sony in my scenario, Disney gets Spider-Man from my understanding cause their agreement is non-transferable as far as I know.
 
I think Sony won't sell or trade Spider-Man. They want that MCU money. I think they're happy with the partnership and they want to use the Spider-Verse to piggy back off the MCU, hence the whole is it MCU or not MCU, same reality but not MCU etc hot mess from earlier this year. I am betting their end game is getting the Spider-Verse in the MCU come time to renegotiate the Spider-Man rights passed Homecoming 2.

We'll see how it goes, but my bet is Sony remains in the picture for a while.

It's nice to want things.

But how would they reacquire Spidey just from Venom bombing? It puts Sony in a bad state going forward but it would only push them to sell all assets rather than just Spider-Man.

As a long SNE holder, Sony needs to divest of SPE and double down on Playstation and network pronto.
 
If Venom bombs, then the chances Disney end up with Spider-Man dramatically increase. It succeeds, Sony is going to use it as a bargaining chip and try to weasel deeper into the MCU circle. Which I don't blame them for, it's smart business.
BUT that is where this crazy train gets any crazier. Sony letting go of the Spidey rights would take away their film studios primary source of revenue. Not to mention that Sony Corp has professed zero intention of ever letting the rights go. I can see Sony trying to weasel in no matter what. The only plans they have ever put forward have literally been to CC whatever Marvel is doing with whatever properties they've got. Some of their film plans alone sound literally insane.
 
Sony was talking about getting out of movies a while back, so if their plan to expand their own brand fails, then they have basically no franchise outside Spider-Man himself. May force Sony's hand to sell their assets outright. I don't think Disney would end up with them (I would say Comcast would based on interest in FOX), but even if Comcast got Sony in my scenario, Disney gets Spider-Man from my understanding cause their agreement is non-transferable as far as I know.

While I can only guess for X-Men and FF, I'm 100% sure that the rights are transferable in Spider-Man as of the 2011 contract. Only way it's not transferable is if this section of the contract was amended in 2015.
 
I've seen that before but where are people getting the idea that deal is non-transferrable? If that would be confirmed then it would put my mind at ease because it is only a matter of time before Sony sells, especially if Venom bombs. And like you, the most likely scenario I foresee in my head is them selling to Comcast if Disney can't buy them because of antitrust after this Fox deal.
 
BUT that is where this crazy train gets any crazier. Sony letting go of the Spidey rights would take away their film studios primary source of revenue. Not to mention that Sony Corp has professed zero intention of ever letting the rights go. I can see Sony trying to weasel in no matter what. The only plans they have ever put forward have literally been to CC whatever is doing with whatever they've got. Some of their film plans alone sound literally insane.

Sony I think is also trying to get the new Narnia: The Silver Chair made, again trying to get a new property to build off of. Given the struggles of passed Narnia films, I see it being a modest success at best or a flop at worst. Same with basically all their possible blockbusters outside Spider-Man. Sony is in trouble outside Spider-Man, and I know they have discussed selling their assets before. If they did, Disney would end up with Spider-Man regardless who buys them (based on my understanding).
 
Here is the section of transferring licenses on the 2011 amended spider-man contract:

23. ASSIGNMENT.
23.a. SPE’s Right to Assign. Subject to Section 23.b hereof, SPE shall be free to assign or license any or all of its rights hereunder, and/or to delegate any or all of its duties, obligations and liabilities, at any time and from time to time, to any person or entity. Upon such assignment, SPE shall be released and discharged of and from the delegated duties, obligations and liabilities if such assignment and/or delegation is to: (i) a person or entity into which SPE merges or is consolidated; or (ii) a person or entity which acquires all or substantially all of SPE’s business and assets and which assumes such obligations in writing; or (iii) a financially responsible entity which is controlled by, under common control with, or controls SPE which assumes such obligations in writing; or (iv) a “Major Studio“ (i.e., and expressly defined as limited to: Warner Bros., Fox, Disney, Paramount, Universal, or DreamWorks) or United States television network, which assumes such obligations in writing. Any purported assignment by SPE in violation of this Section 23 shall be void ab initio.
23.b. Limitations. SPE may not assign this Agreement in its entirety except to (i) a person or entity into which SPE merges or is consolidated, or (ii) a person or entity which acquires all or substantially all of SPE’s business and assets and which assumes such obligations in writing, or (iii) a person or entity which is controlled by, under common control with, or controls SPE, or (iv) a Major Studio which assumes such obligations in writing. SPE may not assign its right to produce any Production to, or enter into a co-production agreement with, any entity except (i) any of the entities described in Section 23.b(i) - (iv) hereof, or (ii) in connection a transaction pursuant to which (A) SPE has creative control over the applicable Production, and (B) SPE initially controls all United States distribution rights with respect to the applicable Production and either controls or has the right to obtain (e.g., through the exercise of one or more options) such United States distribution rights for the entire term of copyright. Upon any assignment or delegation permitted under Section 23.b(i) - (iv) above, SPE shall be released and discharged of and from the delegated duties, obligations and liabilities.
23.c. Gardner v. Nike. Notwithstanding any contrary provision of this Agreement, SPE shall have the unrestricted right to assign or license to any person or entity, on either an exclusive or non-exclusive basis, or otherwise exploit, any or all rights, licenses or privileges with respect to each and every Production produced hereunder by such manner and means and on such terms and conditions as SPE deems appropriate, including without limitation the assignment or licensing of any exhibition, performance, broadcasting, or distribution rights to exhibitors, broadcasters, subdistributors, consumers, end-users and other Persons and the granting to other Persons of the right to further license or assign the rights granted to them by SPE. Nothing contained in this Agreement is intended to limit or restrict in any manner the full and unrestricted exercise by SPE (and its licensees) of the Productions as SPE deems appropriate, and this Section 23.c is intended by the parties to be a specific consent by Marvel to such licensing and assignment (and further licensing and assignment by SPE and its assignees and licensees) and to overcome any restrictions on such licensing or assignment arising under the case Gardner v. Nike.
23.d. Marvel’s and the LP’s Right to Assign. Notwithstanding any contrary provision of this Agreement, Marvel and the LP shall have the unrestricted right to assign or license to any person or entity, on either an exclusive or non-exclusive basis, or otherwise exploit, any or all rights, licenses or privileges reserved to Marvel or granted to the LP hereunder by such manner and means and on such terms and conditions as Marvel or the LP (as applicable) deems appropriate. Nothing contained in this Agreement is intended to limit or restrict in any manner the full and unrestricted exercise by Marvel (and its licensees) or the LP (and its licensees) of all rights, licenses or privileges reserved to Marvel or granted to the LP hereunder as Marvel or the LP (as applicable) deems appropriate, and this Section 23.d is intended by the parties to be a specific consent by SPE to such licensing and assignment (and further licensing and assignment by Marvel and/or the LP and their respective assignees and licensees).
 
Sony was talking about getting out of movies a while back, so if their plan to expand their own brand fails, then they have basically no franchise outside Spider-Man himself. May force Sony's hand to sell their assets outright. I don't think Disney would end up with them (I would say Comcast would based on interest in FOX), but even if Comcast got Sony in my scenario, Disney gets Spider-Man from my understanding cause their agreement is non-transferable as far as I know.
There was talk among analysts in the States and in Japan, but Sony Corp (Japan) flat out denied they would ever go down that path. They literally are their own worst enemy.

If Sony didn't have the success of the PlayStation 4 to ride on currently they'd be experiencing a monumental world of hurt. Even that strategy is relatively dangerous. If the transition of the PS2 --> PS3 taught anything, is that in the game industry nothing lasts forever. On top of that Sony is already making some bonehead decisions in that market and that could come back to haunt them.

Right now, based on the evidence the only way Sony exits the Entertainment market is kicking and screaming while the ship burns and sinks.
 
Where'd you get that from? I thought the contracts weren't public?

Probably from back a few years ago when Sony was Hacked and much of their information became public.

Surfer
 
Here is the section of transferring licenses on the 2011 amended spider-man contract:

This would not be the most updated contract, though. Whatever they signed when they agreed to Homecoming would be. So this section could be moot and that may no longer be an option.
 
This would not be the most updated contract, though. Whatever they signed when they agreed to Homecoming would be. So this section could be moot and that may no longer be an option.
Agreed. Based on the language of this contract this would have had to have been updated when they made their deal with Marvel. The involvement of Marvel Studios and its assumption of creative control introduced elements not covered by the language in the original deal.
 
Did the leaked contract have the time limit by which Sony has to start principle production or the rights revert?
 
Agreed. Based on the language of this contract this would have had to have been updated when they made their deal with Marvel. The involvement of Marvel Studios and its assumption of creative control introduced elements not covered by the language in the original deal.

Like what? Not that I disagree, I do think this piece was most likely amended in 2015.

Did the leaked contract have the time limit by which Sony has to start principle production or the rights revert?

Pre 2011
3 years to start production, 5 years to release. They also had an option of extending it after 9 months from the previous release.

2011
3 years 9 months to begin production, 5 years 9 months to release it. 5 years to begin production if a trilogy is completed within an 8 year timeframe.

2015
Possible changes to this.
 

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