Can Iron Man be redeemed?

[LouFerignoDemon]

I Had A Thought About Tony's Manipulation Of People Would That Include Manipulating The Ny Board Of Education Into Not Rehireing Science Teacher Peter Parker? That Way The Old Parker Luck Would Get A Push By Stark Ingenuity

As much as I detest the American Education system, I doubt they'd rehire a teacher as "immature" as Parker seemed to be.

 

[Grim Goblin]

One could say that he didn't let Rhodey know, because he wanted Rhodey to BE Iron Man in thought, where if he believed Tony to be alive, he wouldn't really commit to the Iron Man persona. Though I fully agree. Rhodey should've been trusted in this situation.

Rodhey commited to it quite well the first time around and Stark was still alive.

bottom line is, Tony's an a**!

 

[LouFerignoDemon]

Of course Rhodey did, he thought he was the permanant Iron Man.

 

[bkhedr]

Of course Tony can be redeemed, its not like her murdered Marilla the Inhuman nanny in cold blood....oh wait

 

[LouFerignoDemon]

Of course Tony can be redeemed, its not like her murdered Marilla the Inhuman nanny in cold blood....oh wait

He also killed Supremor, but people got over that as well. Captain America, if they ever do decide to become friends again, is more or less the "should he be forgiven" party. Tony didn't smack him in the face with a shield, he only tried to extend a hand in friendship and the hopes of an understanding. However, as Marvel is going to puss out with this, it'll probably end with Steve recognizing that Tony was trying to do good, and want to give him another shot. And people being the goats they are following the herder, will follow suit.

 

[BrianWilly]

Stark is an irredeemable *****ebag.

Dr. Strange is awesome.

 

[The Infernal]

He also killed Supremor, but people got over that as well. Captain America, if they ever do decide to become friends again, is more or less the "should he be forgiven" party. Tony didn't smack him in the face with a shield, he only tried to extend a hand in friendship and the hopes of an understanding. However, as Marvel is going to puss out with this, it'll probably end with Steve recognizing that Tony was trying to do good, and want to give him another shot. And people being the goats they are following the herder, will follow suit.

He actually killed people in cold blood? Could someone explain to those who aren't that aware of Iron Man's history?

I think Iron Man can be redeemed. They've had worse villains turn into good guys before. The thing is, I want Tony to be a villain. At least for a good while after Civil War. I think it would make his own comic series a lot more interesting. Though technicaly he isn't a true villain, but we have Iron Maniac for that.

 

[CBK]

If most of the thunderbolts can be redeemed than i dont see why tony can't be. but we don't even know how its going to end.

 

[bkhedr]

He actually killed people in cold blood? Could someone explain to those who aren't that aware of Iron Man's history?

I think Iron Man can be redeemed. They've had worse villains turn into good guys before. The thing is, I want Tony to be a villain. At least for a good while after Civil War. I think it would make his own comic series a lot more interesting. Though technicaly he isn't a true villain, but we have Iron Maniac for that.

I really cant see Tony as a villain under any circumstances, but he is a *****e. A well intentioned *****e.

As for the killing people deal, during The Crossing (horrible Avengers story) the Avengers had a murderer in their midst. Whoever it was had killed Marilla and YellowJacket II (i think). After investigating it turned out the murderer was Tony (he was being manipulated by Kang but he still killed two innocent people in cold blood)

eventually he redeemed himself by overcoming Kang's manipulations and sacrificing himself to end the conquerer's plot....only to be reborn as teenage Stark (god that was a bad year for comics)

As for the Supreme intelligence it wasnt just Tony it was a bunch of Avengers, and it was the black knight who delivered the killing blow, and it turned out the supremor wasnt really dead anyway. Oh and in Avengers Forever it was revealed that Immortus manipulated the Avengers into killing the supremor. So i guess Tony gets a bye on that one

phew

long story short. Tony could burn down an orphanage on purpose and be redeemed

 

[The Infernal]

I really cant see Tony as a villain under any circumstances, but he is a *****e. A well intentioned *****e.

As for the killing people deal, during The Crossing (horrible Avengers story) the Avengers had a murderer in their midst. Whoever it was had killed Marilla and YellowJacket II (i think). After investigating it turned out the murderer was Tony (he was being manipulated by Kang but he still killed two innocent people in cold blood)

eventually he redeemed himself by overcoming Kang's manipulations and sacrificing himself to end the conquerer's plot....only to be reborn as teenage Stark (god that was a bad year for comics)

As for the Supreme intelligence it wasnt just Tony it was a bunch of Avengers, and it was the black knight who delivered the killing blow, and it turned out the supremor wasnt really dead anyway. Oh and in Avengers Forever it was revealed that Immortus manipulated the Avengers into killing the supremor. So i guess Tony gets a bye on that one

phew

long story short. Tony could burn down an orphanage on purpose and be redeemed

I never meant a true villain. Iron Man, agreed he's a big jerk but he would still save the world and such. Yet at the same time he would be a member of an oppressive government and seeing him live with that choice would be interesting.

 

[ghost113]

Of course Iron man can be redeemed he didn't do anything wrong.

 

[Spideywebs]

I think too many video games and listening to rap music turned Tony to the dark side...

 

[LouFerignoDemon]

He actually killed people in cold blood? Could someone explain to those who aren't that aware of Iron Man's history?

I think Iron Man can be redeemed. They've had worse villains turn into good guys before. The thing is, I want Tony to be a villain. At least for a good while after Civil War. I think it would make his own comic series a lot more interesting. Though technicaly he isn't a true villain, but we have Iron Maniac for that.

It actually wouldn't make sense for him to turn into a villan on any level really. People are blowing his actions in CW WAAAAY out of proportion to the cosmic levels. His acts aren't really villanous at all. In fact, one could liken it to very similar acts undertaken by superhero's all the time in his doing of the SHRA cooperation. Doctor Strange, the Silver Surfer, the Hulk, and Namor were far larger enemies (though Stark isn't one) as the Order.

 

[The Infernal]

It actually wouldn't make sense for him to turn into a villan on any level really. People are blowing his actions in CW WAAAAY out of proportion to the cosmic levels. His acts aren't really villanous at all. In fact, one could liken it to very similar acts undertaken by superhero's all the time in his doing of the SHRA cooperation. Doctor Strange, the Silver Surfer, the Hulk, and Namor were far larger enemies (though Stark isn't one) as the Order.

That's not true. Iron Man has helped manipulate this situation. Regardless of his vision, he has done dodgy things. Hiring the new Titanium man for one thing. Tony Stark isn't the most altruistic of heroes and is a bit of a jerk. Just because other superheroes have made similar choices doesn't make his own choice right or excusable.

 

[LouFerignoDemon]

That's not true. Iron Man has helped manipulate this situation. Regardless of his vision, he has done dodgy things. Hiring the new Titanium man for one thing. Tony Stark isn't the most altruistic of heroes and is a bit of a jerk. Just because other superheroes have made similar choices doesn't make his own choice right or excusable.

You act as if Tony is the first to manipulate events to get to his goal? And as I will fully admit the use of the Titanium Man was horribly unnecessary, I will not decide to sit quiet while people try to villify him while other hero's deserve just as much criticism. Unfortunately, people LOVE Captain America, who Tony Stark is basically against. So people take sides.

 

[The Infernal]

You act as if Tony is the first to manipulate events to get to his goal?

No, I don't. Other people's decisions shouldn't matter, even if they have bearing on the situation at hand. He's responsable for his own actions. Saying that other people have made similar decisions is like saying 'oh, but he started it'.

And as I will fully admit the use of the Titanium Man was horribly unnecessary, I will not decide to sit quiet while people try to villify him while other hero's deserve just as much criticism.

It sounds like you're not happy with his portrayal by Marvel at the moment. That's just it though. Right now he's being characterised that way, and it comes off as a potential villain.

You're right though, many of the heroes on both sides deserve a lot of criticisms. Cap has been just as zealous as Iron Man. I wouldn't say that either group were completely in the right, but I do believe that Pro-Regisration wouldn't work.

Unfortunately, people LOVE Captain America, who Tony Stark is basically against. So people take sides.

In a way, you're right. A lot of people are siding with Cap. America because they either like him more or he's usually seen as the altruistic one. Yet more people are simply siding with him because it seems that the Pro-Reg side are more in the wrong.

 

[LouFerignoDemon]

No, I don't. Other people's decisions shouldn't matter, even if they have bearing on the situation at hand. He's responsable for his own actions. Saying that other people's made such decisions is like saying 'oh, but he started it'.

You can't start saying that Tony deserves something without pulling other hero's into consideration with the same task. Without doing so gives the notion of either you really dislike Stark, or that you really didn't think he wasn't the only one.

In that respect, it's unfair to villify Iron Man, when people who go against Registration have done similar things. Strange for example.

It sounds like you're not happy with his portrayal by Marvel at the moment. That's just it though. Right now he's being characterised that way, and it comes off as a potential villain.

Actually, aside from the TA, he's pretty much the same character he's always been. I dislike PEOPLE'S portrayal of him.

You're right though, many of the heroes on both sides deserve a lot of criticisms. Cap has been just as zealous as Iron Man. I wouldn't say that either group were completely in the right, but I do believe that Pro-Regisration wouldn't work.

I'd actually place Cap's zealousness over IM's, but they both are rash. And it's easy to see why.

In a way, you're right. A lot of people are siding with Cap. America because they either like him more or he's usually seen as the altruistic one. Yet more people are simply siding with him because it seems that the Pro-Reg side are more in the wrong.

Both sides in all actuality would work. And while I support anti-reg, pro-reg is a far more logical choice to make. However, I feel most of the people who side anti are either Stark-haters, all gut types, and those who just really hate the government, or my favorite, those who think it's fascist needlessly. (ANY form of control is a step toward fascisism. Stop lights, speeding tickets, taxes, ANY of that could be fascist behaviour.)

 

[The Infernal]

You can't start saying that Tony deserves something without pulling other hero's into consideration with the same task. Without doing so gives the notion of either you really dislike Stark, or that you really didn't think he wasn't the only one.

In that respect, it's unfair to villify Iron Man, when people who go against Registration have done similar things. Strange for example.

This has nothing to do with me hating Stark. I liked Iron Man before this.

Now I'm not aware what's Strange has done so I'll take your word on it. I've seen people from both sides have made bad decisions. That's a part of why I'm only talking about Stark here. If we get into other poeple's decisions it threatens to become a mess, that is unless their decisions directly affect Stark's. As of yet I can't see much cause.

Plus, I think I can argue about his actions alone here because I'd pretty much treat the other side the same if anyone made similar mistakes. I don't feel the need to compare his actions with other people's or vice versa. I've already admitted that I've noted a couple of instances with their side.

I'd actually place Cap's zealousness over IM's, but they both are rash. And it's easy to see why.

Well, that's something anyone can take their own view on and not be in the wrong. Me, I think they're as bad as each other and are just two sides of the same coin. By that I'm not implying Cap's good and IM's bad. Just their viewpoints.

Both sides in all actuality would work. And while I support anti-reg, pro-reg is a far more logical choice to make. However, I feel most of the people who side anti are either Stark-haters, all gut types, and those who just really hate the government, or my favorite, those who think it's fascist needlessly. (ANY form of control is a step toward fascisism. Stop lights, speeding tickets, taxes, ANY of that could be fascist behaviour.)

I'd argue in theory both sides could work, but not reality. There's so many people on either side, and all with their own agendas. There's too many chances for abuse in either case for it to work.

Can't really say that I'm a Stark-hater. I liked Iron Man, but he is being perceived as being in the wrong here. I also think it's unfair, and perhaps whishful thinking on your part to label people Stark-haters because there are so many.

I do have to admit that I do hate the government on some levels. That might help with my viewpoint that the Pro-reg represents an oppresive government, and I don't see why I should be ashamed of it. You might as well argue the opposite for people who love the government.

I think you're arguement about fascism is overly simplistic. Despite the actual definition of the term, you still knew what people meant. The Pro-reg isn't too far away from the Mutant-reg act that was completely villified when it was a threat.

I think why people are getting so heated about Cap Vs IM is because that neither really seem to be in the right at the moment. I think we're supposed to empathise more with people like Ben Grimm and Peter Parker (who seams to be the heart of the story). I feel kinda nuetral about this myself, in the fact that I don't support either group as their methods are both questionable. I do still believe that Anti-reg should win though because that's the ideal I'm holding too.

 

[Spade]

I don't agree with the particular phrase that people on this thread are using to refer to Tony, but I do agree with them on principle- Tony Stark has fumbled in his best of intentions many a time. I disagree on Darthphere's interpretation that from the getgo he was written in as a morally unambiguous person in that I feel that was explored later on as he interacted more with other heroes, but it's also not something new. Force Works was around when I first got into Iron Man, and even back then he was making decisions for those around him. Throw the 'Kang was controlling him' and 'he's been good for years' excuses aside- this is nothing new. I take offense that he's being used as a mule by Marvel to validate Civil War and to give us a side to root for in a saga where they say both sides are valid, but that doesn't negate the fact that Tony has gone rogue for the 'greater good' as he sees it one time too often.

 

[3dman27]

As much as I detest the American Education system, I doubt they'd rehire a teacher as "immature" as Parker seemed to be.

oh yeh ifi recall the storyline midtown high was woefully understaffed at the time andhad to hire a science teacher to keep its acrediation level

 

[BrianWilly]

After the latest issue of New Avengers, I don't see how anyone could possibly continue to defend Stark. Oh, I know that they will, but I just can't imagine how they could.

He betrayed Jessica Drew without a moment's hesitation to SHIELD. In fact, he said outright that he would have done it in the first place if not for Captain America breathing down his neck. This was someone who tried to trust him, depended on him to protect her secret...and he sold her out the very second that she becomes a liability. Just like he did Luke Cage. Just like he will do to Spider-Man, I imagine.

Oh sure, I'm sure people will say he's just doing what's necessary. But how many more "necessary" things is this guy going to be doing that he gets away with? How far will he be allowed to go in the name of "necessity" before we admit that he has truly gone too far?

 

[Willowhugger]

I actually just am going to say that's WOEFULLY out of character for Stark. I'd like to think that Iron Man is just a suit of armor that Maria Hill cooked up. I can accept every aspect of Civil War but that one.

 

[LouFerignoDemon]

This has nothing to do with me hating Stark. I liked Iron Man before this.

Now I'm not aware what's Strange has done so I'll take your word on it. I've seen people from both sides have made bad decisions. That's a part of why I'm only talking about Stark here. If we get into other poeple's decisions it threatens to become a mess, that is unless their decisions directly affect Stark's. As of yet I can't see much cause.

No, I'm fine if people were to just talk about Stark's problems for the most part. But they blast Stark and then say they'd side with people like Strange and Castle, simply because the Pro-Reg is wrong, and then state how IM is a loser and such.

Plus, I think I can argue about his actions alone here because I'd pretty much treat the other side the same if anyone made similar mistakes. I don't feel the need to compare his actions with other people's or vice versa. I've already admitted that I've noted a couple of instances with their side.

And that's awesome.

Well, that's something anyone can take their own view on and not be in the wrong. Me, I think they're as bad as each other and are just two sides of the same coin. By that I'm not implying Cap's good and IM's bad. Just their viewpoints.

It wasn't just you I was talking about. You, for what I've seen, are fairly level headed.

I'd argue in theory both sides could work, but not reality. There's so many people on either side, and all with their own agendas. There's too many chances for abuse in either case for it to work.

In reality, neither side works perfectly. They all work in shades. Both work, since both could exist. But, I agree, neither work well, since it's all run by individuals.

Can't really say that I'm a Stark-hater. I liked Iron Man, but he is being perceived as being in the wrong here. I also think it's unfair, and perhaps whishful thinking on your part to label people Stark-haters because there are so many.

Not wishful thinking. Just look at what some people have to say about Stark.

I do have to admit that I do hate the government on some levels. That might help with my viewpoint that the Pro-reg represents an oppresive government, and I don't see why I should be ashamed of it. You might as well argue the opposite for people who love the government.

I'm not saying that you should be ashamed of it. I'm saying that one shouldn't make an arguement without first the pursuit of logic, and then, if you want to toss it out of the window, then go with what you want. But I just feel people should utilize logic first. Not "logic" as most understand it. Real logic. *Is curious how many people will look up logic's definition now.*

I think you're arguement about fascism is overly simplistic. Despite the actual definition of the term, you still knew what people meant. The Pro-reg isn't too far away from the Mutant-reg act that was completely villified when it was a threat.

Hardly. Most oversimply and exaggerate the use of it severely. However, the Pro-Reg act PB (Pre-Bendis) worked severely different from the Mutant registration act. In action, one was feasable, and the other was severely biased. Though now the Pro-Reg act (courtesy of Bendis. You just know his **** messed it up somehow.) has been turned INTO the mutant act (a shame really, Marvel basically had to villify the Pro-Reg act.)

I think why people are getting so heated about Cap Vs IM is because that neither really seem to be in the right at the moment. I think we're supposed to empathise more with people like Ben Grimm and Peter Parker (who seams to be the heart of the story). I feel kinda nuetral about this myself, in the fact that I don't support either group as their methods are both questionable. I do still believe that Anti-reg should win though because that's the ideal I'm holding too.

Incorrect. Many think Cap is in the right, where Tony is in the wrong. While many admit neither made good decisions, the main consensus is that Cap is right.

 

[LouFerignoDemon]

After the latest issue of New Avengers, I don't see how anyone could possibly continue to defend Stark. Oh, I know that they will, but I just can't imagine how they could.

He betrayed Jessica Drew without a moment's hesitation to SHIELD. In fact, he said outright that he would have done it in the first place if not for Captain America breathing down his neck. This was someone who tried to trust him, depended on him to protect her secret...and he sold her out the very second that she becomes a liability. Just like he did Luke Cage. Just like he will do to Spider-Man, I imagine.

Oh sure, I'm sure people will say he's just doing what's necessary. But how many more "necessary" things is this guy going to be doing that he gets away with? How far will he be allowed to go in the name of "necessity" before we admit that he has truly gone too far?

Though Jessica was basically selling them out first, after them trusting her?


I definitely couldn't trust someone who was lying to me constantly like she was.

 

[hippy fascist]

I think he can be redeemed because marvel's celarly going for a "he's not himself/under someone elses control" type of vibe here. Once he shakes it off he'll still be a *****e but he'll go back to being the *****e we all know and love.