Can Pulp Heroes make a comeback at the movies?

[Breogan]

I am aware of the Doc Samson[I think you mean Savage] movie in the works, can they modernize the heroes or keep them in period piece movies? And if so what heroes would you like to see. I am all for a new Flash Gordon

It probably depends on the property, My instinct, what I prefer is to see them set in their original time periods.
Although with some exceptions I'm pretty open to complete modern reboots. Or legacy versions adopting the mantles and acknowledging past versions.

For some, a middle ground might work best, the kind of imaginary nondescript decopunk like Batman Animated series first used, having the look and tone of the past, hybrid with modern visual elements.

Not sure how they are doing Doc Savage, probably a complete modern reboot?, The Shadow, Green Hornet, if they ever do a Spider, The Black Bat, Spy-Smasher, I would prefer them all in that decopunk, or dieselpunk I think is the right time frame/setting.
The Phantom too, but I also think a completely modern Phantom or future Phantom(as we've seen) works.

Zorro I would prefer to see the classic origin actually told. Although I'm kind of defending in concept the idea of the future post-apocalyptic Zorro (and yeah it's getting allot of hate), but a world reset to a wild frontier, and he's been established as a legacy character, is exactly where a Zorro would resurface, with some modern tec. elements added. it works for me.

 

[gwynplaine]

Tom Hidleston would make a great Mandrake.

 

[Warhammer]

Pulp heroes can make a comeback if the marketing is top notch and the concept doesn't appear to be too niche. That's the only way.

John Carter is an example of poor marketing. Pure crap marketing. At least emphasize Mars by putting it in the title.

 

[Airwings]

Tom Hidleston would make a great Mandrake.

Wouldn't Michael Fassbender or a Prestige-esque Hugh Jackman be better?

 

[Goshdarn Batman]

I hope we'll see more of the pulp heroes on the big screen.

"The Spider" should have his own movie. Maybe something like Tim Truman's comic book version...it would probably look something like Burton's Batman, or BTAS. Action-packed, with giant robots, mad scientists and crazy stuff like that.

It must be rated R.

 

[Lord]

We do see some inspired works like Indiana Jones and Star Wars, the later has largelly deviated from Pulp, but Indy has remained like that and lead into the creation of other similar films, The Mummy and National Treasure are kinda pulpy in fact. If they make another The Shadow or even a The Spider film, i hope they cut on the cheese and make something dark and serious with good athmosphere.

But what i really hope is that we see a return from

What i'm really not sure is if they should let him stay a regular guy where trouble finds him, or if they should just make him a full blown fighter against the Axis powers, that would make the plot easier to flow, instead of having to search for an excuse to put him in the action.

Pirates of the Caribbean also keeps a lot of the fun and adventure elements from good Pulp, which is one of the reasons i really enjoy it, would like to see Disney going ahead with all the three Pulpy franchises: Indiana Jones, Pirates of the Caribbean and The Rocketeer.

 

[Breogan]

So we just had Tarzan one of the biggest pulp franchises, was that the last gasp for the pulp revivals? How did it fair?

Will it be up to Doc Savage with Dwayne Johnson playing the Man of Bronze to revitalize interest?
How are they playing him set in classic 30s-40s, or reset in modern times?
Is updating them what it takes to make them relevant? Or playing them classic?
Why did Indian Jones work?
Why didn't just modernizing Green Hornet work?

What do people prefer for the old pulp/radio/and comic-strip characters?
Set in their time, or modernized?

Of late we've had:

The Green Hornet 2011
Conan the Barbarian 2011
John Carter 2012
The Lone Ranger 2013
Tarzan 2016

What are they doing Wrong? Right?

 

[Breogan]

We'll unbelievably if Green Hornet is so soon back on the table. http://www.superherohype.com/news/385807-new-green-hornet-movie-in-development-from-gavin-oconnor
I guess they are all fair game for reboots!


Wants:

Shadow
Phantom
Mandrake
Flash Gordon
Zorro classic setting De La Vega full Origin tale (actually never told on film)
Solomon Kane, although a sequel would still be fine.
Conan, to soon?
Not sure on the plans for Savage, i'm already anticipating the reboot.

And as crazy as it sounds I think Disney(John Carter) and recent WarnerBros(Tarzan) should pool their busted Edgar Rice Burroughs franchises and stars (Kitsch & Skarsgård), go against all expectations and rational, and do a shared Lords of Mars crossover.
It's just so insane it could work!

 

[Alex Murphy]

I wouldn't mind seeing a shared universe with characters like the Shadow, Doc Savage, the Green Hornet, the Phantom, and the Spirit.

↑

We'll unbelievably if Green Hornet is so soon back on the table. http://www.superherohype.com/news/385807-new-green-hornet-movie-in-development-from-gavin-oconnor
I guess they are all fair game for reboots!


Wants:

Shadow
Phantom
Mandrake
Flash Gordon
Zorro classic setting De La Vega full Origin tale (actually never told on film)
Solomon Kane, although a sequel would still be fine.
Conan, to soon?
Not sure on the plans for Savage, i'm already anticipating the reboot.

And as crazy as it sounds I think Disney(John Carter) and recent WarnerBros(Tarzan) should pool their busted Edgar Rice Burroughs franchises and stars, and do a Lords of Mars crossover.
It's just so insane it could work!

What about The Mark of Zorro with Tyrone Power?

 

[Breogan]

↑



What about The Mark of Zorro with Tyrone Power?

That's why I said "full".
That wasn't really a full origin. That and most interpretations have begun with him already trained, an adult coming back from Spain to find Cali overrun by a corrupt Gov.
I'm referencing the full tale expanded on in the Allende Novel which includes everything that leads up to that.
His Father's arrival in California war with his mother's tribe.
His Grandmother and his vision quest which gives him his totem animal.
His voyage to Spain.
Studies, adventures and training there under la Justicia,
...and finally eventful return to Cali where he becomes Zorro.

For an abridged take on it check out Wagner's recent Zorro run at Dynamite.

 

[Alex Murphy]

That wasn't his full origin.

Did McCulley ever go into it in that much depth?

 

[Breogan]

Did McCulley ever go into it in that much depth?

Curse of Capistrano had no ongoing origin told at all. Zorro already exists, fully formed as it begins, everyone already knows and fears him from the start of the story.
It's only at the end he describes how it began when he was 15 and saw injustice, and determined to play what he describes as "the game" In secret practicing horsemanship and how to wield a blade - "..and then the time came and my work began" He tells how it felt to put on a mask and have two identities.
But it's just a small explanation, the details are never filled in.
This is hard to imagine today since it's become such an obvious and common trope it would be expected,, but the reason it's not an origin tale, is as you read Curse, you are not supposed to know Diego and Zorro are one and the same, since Zorro already exists. Although you suspect, in the end this is supposed to come as a surprise not revealed till the end.

Later McCulley tales gave more details bit never a full stand alone origin tale.
Hence ZPI contracted Allende to for the first time do the full origin and fill in those details.

There are currently two Zorro films in production, one of them by SONY is that Origin tale - http://forums.superherohype.com/showthread.php?t=368369

 

[Breogan]

Fair enough. I wouldn't mind seeing a shared universe with characters like the Shadow, Doc Savage, the Green Hornet, the Phantom, and the Spirit.

Sadly most of these are optioned by different movie studios at the time.
Even King Feature properties which could all exist in the same universe; The Phantom, Mandrake and Flash Gordon are all currently at different movie studios.
The same with Lone Ranger and Green Hornet.
The Burroughs characters Tarzan & John Carter (add Carson of Venus).
Howard's Conan & Red Son(j)a.
The Street and smith characters; Doc Savage, The Shadow, The Avenger

For a brief window Dynamite has managed to gather several licenses under the same house, and pulled off (with varying degrees of success) a few miracles.

As well as the Lords of Mars above:

 

[Alex Murphy]

That's why I said "full".
That wasn't really a full origin. That and most interpretations have begun with him already trained, an adult coming back from Spain to find Cali overrun by a corrupt Gov.
I'm referencing the full tale expanded on in the Allende Novel which includes everything that leads up to that.
His Father's arrival in California war with his mother's tribe.
His Grandmother and his vision quest which gives him his totem animal.
His voyage to Spain.
Studies, adventures and training there under la Justicia,
...and finally eventful return to Cali where he becomes Zorro.

For an abridged take on it check out Wagner's recent Zorro run at Dynamite.

Cool, thanks!

Curse of Capistrano had no ongoing origin told at all. Zorro already exists, fully formed as it begins, everyone already knows and fears him from the start of the story.

Just like Batman at the beginning of Detective Comics #27.

At the end he describes how it began when he was 15 and saw injustice, and determined to play what he describes as "the game" In secret practicing horsemanship and how to wield a blade, he tells "..and then the time came and my work began" How it felt to put on a mask and have two identities.
Bu the details are never filled in.
This is hard to imagine today since it's become such an obvious and common trope, but the reason is as you read Curse, you are not supposed to know Diego and Zorro are one and the same, it's not revealed to the very end.
Later McCulley tales gave more details bit never a full origin.
Hence ZPI contracted Allende to do the full origin and fill in those details.

There are currently two Zorro films in production, one of them is the Origin tale - http://forums.superherohype.com/showthread.php?t=368369

Thanks for the info.

Sadly most of these are optioned by different movie studios at the time.

Even King Feature properties which could all exist in the same universe; The Phantom, Mandrake and Flash Gordon are all currently at different movie studios.
The same with Lone Ranger and Green Hornet.
The Burroughs characters Tarzan & John Carter (add Carson of Venus).
Conan & Red Son(j)a.
The Street and smith characters; Doc Savage, The Shadow, The Avenger

For a brief window Dynamite has managed to gather several licenses under the same house, and pulled off (with varying degrees of success) a few miracles.

As well as the Lords of Mars above:

I'll check those out.

 

[rogue trooper]

I think Legend of Tarzan showed that there is strong potential in classic pulp material. Hopefully Shane Black's Doc Savage, the Zorro-project by Jonas Cuaron, and the recently- announced Green Hornet reboot by Gavin O'Connor will further display such potential.

 

[fancyarcher]

YOU SHUT YOUR ****E MOUTH!!!! Billy Zane was perfectly fine as the Phantom!!!!

He was also very committed to the role, so I don't think I'd consider his performance lazy.

As for the question, as with anything I think pulp heroes can make a comeback, as long as you get good directors, writers, actors etc... to get involved with them. None of this straight up darkening or modern day B.S. they seem to be trying to do with so many of these classic characters.

 

[Breogan]

None of this straight up darkening or modern day B.S. they seem to be trying to do with so many of these classic characters.

Which classic pulp era heroes did they "straight up darken"?

 

[fancyarcher]

Which classic pulp era heroes did they "straight up darken"?

Maybe not "super dark", but that recent Tarzan films come to mind, although the character started out with a dark backstory (the whole Lord Greystroke thing), there was no need for the grey cinematography and somewhat brutal violence, though very PG13ish in nature. A Tarzan movie should be a bit fun then that IMO.

 

[Breogan]

None of this straight up darkening or modern day B.S. they seem to be trying to do with so many of these classic characters.

Which classic pulp era heroes did they "straight up darken"?

Maybe not "super dark", but that recent Tarzan films come to mind, a.....

Yeah not sure that holds up, Rocketeer, Indiana Jones(inspired by pulps) were pretty light fare. Shadow, Phantom, Zorro based on pulp era heroes were all pretty light movies.
Solomon Kane was appropriately (supernatural) dark themed, but even in that context never got into just mindless gore.
Green Hornet (haven't seen it) looked like it went straight camp, John Carter was light and whimsical.
The only ones Lone Ranger (if we are counting it) had some laughably weird dark elements, but was more bizarrely camp and self loathing, which worked against it.If anything they could have gone more serious with it.
New Conan have not seen yet? But I would expect it to be somewhat dark and brutal.
So most seem to have been light adventure films, not sure that the latest Tarzan counts as a sign of suddenly darkening all these pulp characters?

 

[Silvermoth]

Wonder Woman was pulp wasn’t it? And people still love the f out of the Brendan Fraser movies. I reckon there’s tons of life left for pulpy heroes

 

[Mandon Knight]

It all depends who you 'aim' the film substance at, in that a younger (teens to late 20's audience) these days wouldn't give a flying F about any of the type of heroes these films or stories represent, aim it at parents who them themselves grew up in the 80's then possibly.

It could/would be argued, there is still demand for these type of tales (Banderes Zorro, Fraser Mummy films etc.) but we live in a different age these days and the 'demand' or willingness to accept 'tales from yore' just isn't there, it's all instant & thrown at the screen in terms of 'fast cut' action.

I appreciate I'm as old as the hills and have no real connection to what a younger audience is watching but the period of the 80's where Flash Gordon, the Indy films where at their peak etc. and I was a child, has long gone, both in terms of virtue and the requested need for such films, IMO.

Those that have been made since are pale versions of those, the films were made by a structure, an ideal, a state of the world view that no longer resonates.

 

[Consona]

I would love to see more pulpy superheroes. People need to dream again

Thor Ragnarok was not enough pulpy for you?

 

[Breogan]

Wonder Woman was pulp wasn’t it? And people still love the f out of the Brendan Fraser movies. I reckon there’s tons of life left for pulpy heroes

Not sure where consensus is for the start and end of the pulp era, but Tarzan began 1912, so Wonder Woman film is definitely set near that era. Towards the end of it is where the Indiana Jones franchise is set, as well as First Avenger, all popular films.
So the supposed problem is definitely not the era or material, but how it's just been handled, by some more successfully than others.

It could/would be argued, there is still demand for these type of tales (Banderes Zorro, Fraser Mummy films etc.) but we live in a different age these days and the 'demand' or willingness to accept 'tales from yore' just isn't there, it's all instant & thrown at the screen in terms of 'fast cut' action.

Again the settings for First Avenger and Wonder Woman, argue people will see fantastic adventure hero films and classic characters set in past eras.

The Shadow, the Phantom, Green Hornet, and others can all use another go done similarly. As well as Doc Savage, The Avenger, The Spider, and others!

None of this straight up darkening or modern day B.S. they seem to be trying to do with so many of these classic characters.

Also people need to distinguish, between some of the radio, the more friendly safe comic strips characters, and the actual pulp characters of the era, which actually were pretty steeped in some dark edgy sometimes grim brutal stories and imagery.
If anything some of the legit pulp characters when translated to film, could stand to go a little less camp than what we got in the 90s, and go a bit darker, yet still remain fun.

 

[terry78]

If they ever do that Jonny Quest movie it'd probably be in their best interest to leave it in the 60s era. Sim sim salabim Hadji and all.

 

[Infinity9999x]

I think pulp heroes can pretty easily come back. In simplest terms the number issue is just getting a good script. A big portion of the recent pulp heroes they've tried to reboot have all had middling to bad scripts, so that's the main reason why the movies didn't do all that well.

But take The Mask of Zorro, Pirates, and the first Mummy flick with Brenden Fraiser. Now, yes, I know technically only Zorro is a true pulpy hero, but both Pirates and The Mummy are in that same kind of pulpy action adventure mode that most of these characters are in. What made all these films work is that they took the bare bones of what made their source material work and added slight twists to them. Not so much of a twist that the film ever lost the essence of what it was, but enough to make them feel new and exciting.

Mask of Zorro had updated stunts and action, and a touch of darkness that previous Zorror films hadn't had. Pirates was a fun pirate swashbucker with some zombies thrown in. Mummy amped up the supernatural element and the adventure comedy. But what made them work is that while each of these films had slight twists, they still were essentially true to their original genre. Pirates has supernatural elements, yes, but it's still a fun adventure swashbuckler. Zorro had a revenge plot, but never lost it's sense of high flying swashbuckling fun etc.

And at the end of the day, they made good films. And that's all that really matters. Too often people start questioning a genre when movies don't do well. They blame the genre for a film failing, instead of realizing that the film was just a poorly made film in most cases. Now, sometimes do genre's get stale? In some cases, yes. But only specific ones I would argue. The Western genre had to change, but that's mostly because the hollywood golden age western relied on character tropes that were enhancing...if I'm being blunt...a lot of racist character tropes and glorifying the "manifest destiny" way of thinking. That version of the genre died out as America as a whole started to educate it's populace more on the negative parts of it's history. But the genre has since had a comeback as it begins to examine other aspects of the human condition, or even examine and comment on the tropes that it used to rely on.

So, yeah, at the end of the day, if you make a good flick, people will watch it.