The Dark Knight Capes and Cowls - New Batsuit Discussion Thread

[The Shape]

God that suit was sweet. How I miss it so. It's so sleek, and smooth and if I do say so myself, as a :meow: ... it was very SEXY.

Really? That picture just exposes each of the things I hated most about the Begins suit: the dishwashing gloves, the puffiness, and the fact that since the suit is so thick and rigid, it forces Batman to look like he's throwing his chest back trying to awkwardly look cool, not to mention the fact that his neck is too massive andthose damn latches for the cape.

Each of these problems have been solved with the new suit. Though everyone calls it "busy" and "too techy", I think Bale looks much more comfortable and less awkward in the new ad.

 

[batman11]

And whoever posted pages ago about Batmans belt is right. It seems like all these designers want to do is get rid of the classic Batman belt alltogether, they keep making it tinier and tinier. THAT BELT CANT HOLD ANYTHING!!!

Actually, from the "Got Milk" pic alone, we can see he has two grenades, and about two metallic pouches containing bombs and what not. I'd say that's something.

And when you are talking about making it tinier, are you referring to the transition from BB to TDK? Or just in general? Cause I'm pretty sure the two belts are the exact same size.

 

[the_monk]

If you say so.


I know what your point is. I am disagreeing with it. Plenty of people cared about those flaws. Plenty of people will care about the new flaws.

It's fine if we disagree, and I respect your opinion.

My argument is that the flaws with the Begins suit still made some sense in the context of the film. Batman was just starting out and he had to piece together the suit.

We don't really know the reasoning behind the new suit yet, nor have we seen it in much action. It's like gauging an actor's performance through the trailer, when you haven't seen why he's using that particular accent, or how the dialogue fits into the context of the scene.

Nolan's take is meant to be a realistic one. If that's not the Batman you like, that's fine. But he tends to do a good job of putting things in their correct context. I've learned to give him the benefit of the doubt by this point. If Batman chooses to dress more like a SWAT officer, it's probably because it's necessary for him to fit into Nolan's Gotham.

Schumacher's ugly costumes actually do work in his creepy, dayglo interpretation of Gotham. I just don't like him or respect his interpretation of the story. Nolan's, I do like.

So to make a long story short, I guess we'll have to agree to disagree. Now I expect you'll splice my statement into pieces and respond accordingly.

 

[Saint]

ok they may want to get rid of the classic look ... but it looks very stable to me....
a belt made of leather wouldnt hold a thing...

Who said anything about a belt of leather? If anything, the faithful alternative is more realistic, as it would be based on the belts worn by police officers, SWAT, military, etc.

 

[Action ACE]

Here's how I see the comings and complaints of the new suit...

...Christian Bale was, as he said many times, extremely uncomfortable in the previous suit. He said it was hot, and that he couldn't move very well. My guess is that he had a lot of say in this new suit. There was probably a lot of discussion on it not having to be so bulky (a-la a thinner Bale), and being much more streamlined than the previous suit. Thus we get the thinner neck that allows movement and along with it a thinner suit, which also allows more movement. I just have a great hunch that Christian had A LOT to do with it.

On the cowl...no one was *****ing about the nose when the first picture was released a year ago with Batman standing on the police car. No one was *****ing when we saw the first trailer. Hell, no one was *****ing when the character banners came out and that was only a month ago. One or two bad images hardly represents what we will see. Especially when compared to all of the images we have seen up until this point. The image on the magazine was a bad choice and bad lighting obviously. I just doubt very much it is what we will see on film. Why? Because we have 2 trailers that says otherwise.

The belt...Nolan is a huge fan of the belt. He has said so in the past. It is his favorite part of the Batman get-up. The belt is fine, and looks identical to begins IMO.

TDK is gonna be fantastic. I would suggest focusing on the great story and phenomenal acting rather than nitpicks over the suit, cowl etc...

EDIT: I will admit, however, that I want a bigger bat symbol.

 

[The Battousai]

Who said anything about a belt of leather? If anything, the faithful alternative is more realistic, as it would be based on the belts worn by police officers, SWAT, military, etc.

Do they do what Batman does? Something like that would cause the various gadgets to gt in the way and hamper movement which we all know isn't something Batman would want to do.

IMO, of course

 

[HUMANIMAL]

Who said anything about a belt of leather? If anything, the faithful alternative is more realistic, as it would be based on the belts worn by police officers, SWAT, military, etc.

i was thinking bout the belt in the comics...the classic belt .
..yes like in the pic, certainly stable and realistic too...it would work also...but they choosed to go another way with it

 

[Saint]

My argument is that the flaws with the Begins suit still made some sense in the context of the film. Batman was just starting out and he had to piece together the suit.

Rationalizations made by fans to excuse design flaws after the fact are not the same as the flaws making sense. Moreover, being pieced together doesn't explain the puffing, bunching, and so on, which was the real problem. It was a specially designed military garment.

We don't really know the reasoning behind the new suit yet, nor have we seen it in much action.

Neither the reasoning nor the action will magically make it less ugly, nor will they make it more like Batman. There's no excuse for either, as the functions of the suit could have been produced with a more faithful design.

Nolan's take is meant to be a realistic one.

Sweet Jesus, really? It all makes sense now!

If that's not the Batman you like, that's fine. But he tends to do a good job of putting things in their correct context. I've learned to give him the benefit of the doubt by this point. If Batman chooses to dress more like a SWAT officer, it's probably because it's necessary for him to fit into Nolan's Gotham.

And which "realistic" consideration requires overdesigned armour plates? Or roadmap legs? Which "realistic" consideration disqualifies a cleaner, streamlined design? Which "realistic" consideration disqualifies alternative designs that serve the exactly same purpose while simultaneously being faithful, as demonstrated many times in this very thread?

There's this idea that the suit serves a toned down, modern, realistic aesthetic, but it doesn't. It doesn't look real, it doesn't look SWAT inspired. It's not toned-down. It's over-the-top Sci-fi body armour. The really sad truth, though, is that the same people who complain about faithful alternatives being "unrealistic" don't seem to realize that those alternatives contain the exact same elements that afford the "realism" Nolan's suit enjoys, just designed in such a way that they are not ugly, and are more appropriate to Batman.

The BB suit was a soft-armour combat suit. So, how is this soft-armour combat suits less realistic?

The TDK suit is a combination of soft armour and rigid armour. How is this combination of soft and rigid armour less realistic?

How is this, which is essentially identical to the Begins suit, but with the armour disguised, less realistic?

If someone wants to tell me they prefer the TDK suit based on visual appreciation alone, that's fine--but the idea that it needed to look that way to be convincingly realistic, protective, or functional simply does not fly. Aside from elements of the design serving no purpose (roadmap legs), the purposes served by other elements could have easily been replicated in a more faithful manner.

 

[inflames]

Rationalizations made by fans to excuse design flaws after the fact are not the same as the flaws making sense. Moreover, being pieced together doesn't explain the puffing, bunching, and so on, which was the real problem. It was a specially designed military garment.


Neither the reasoning nor the action will magically make it less ugly, nor will they make it more like Batman. There's no excuse for either, as the functions of the suit could have been produced with a more faithful design.


Sweet Jesus, really? It all makes sense now!


And which "realistic" consideration requires overdesigned armour plates? Or roadmap legs? Which "realistic" consideration disqualifies a cleaner, streamlined design? Which "realistic" consideration disqualifies alternative designs that serve the exactly same purpose while simultaneously being faithful, as demonstrated many times in this very thread?

There's this idea that the suit serves a toned down, modern, realistic aesthetic, but it doesn't. It doesn't look real, it doesn't look SWAT inspired. It's not toned-down. It's over-the-top Sci-fi body armour. The really sad truth, though, is that the same people who complain about faithful alternatives being "unrealistic" don't seem to realize that those alternatives contain the exact same elements that afford the "realism" Nolan's suit enjoys, just designed in such a way that they are not ugly, and are more appropriate to Batman.

The BB suit was a soft-armour combat suit. So, how is this soft-armour combat suits less realistic?

The TDK suit is a combination of soft armour and rigid armour. How is this combination of soft and rigid armour less realistic?

How is this, which is essentially identical to the Begins suit, but with the armour disguised, less realistic?

If someone wants to tell me they prefer the TDK suit based on visual appreciation alone, that's fine--but the idea that it needed to look that way to be convincingly realistic, protective, or functional simply does not fly. Aside from elements of the design serving no purpose (roadmap legs), the purposes served by other elements could have easily been replicated in a more faithful manner.

no offense but the straps or w/e they are going around the legs looks like crap.

 

[Saint]

Do they do what Batman does? Something like that would cause the various gadgets to gt in the way and hamper movement which we all know isn't something Batman would want to do.

If he needs to carry gadgets that size, they'll get in the way regardless of what belt they're attached to--including the Begins/TDK belt. Pouches made out of metal do not magically make his gadgets less cumbersome than pouches made of fabric. The size of what he is carrying will dictate the size of the compartments on the belt; the belt being metal or fabric has nothing to do with how cumbersome it is.

Don't get me wrong: I'm not particularly bothered that the belt is metal. I'm just explaining the viability of an alternative.

 

[namtaB]

If someone wants to tell me they prefer the TDK suit based on visual appreciation alone, that's fine--but the idea that it needed to look that way to be convincingly realistic, protective, or functional simply does not fly. Aside from elements of the design serving no purpose (roadmap legs), the purposes served by other elements could have easily been replicated in a more faithful manner.

Its a movie and not real life so the whole purpose of the Batsuit is the look and comfort for the actor. So aren't arguments on protection and functionality moot points? I can see their validity if this were a real invention and certain criteria were needed to be met, you were filing for a patent, etc.

Nolan went with a design that he liked. Its pretty clear the "knight" theme is proliferated throughout the aesthetics of the suit from the chain mail like fabric portion to especially the shoulder and chest plates.

People like it and people don't.

 

[Saint]

no offense but the straps or w/e they are going around the legs looks like crap.

That really wasn't the point.

 

[inflames]

That really wasn't the point.

I thought the whole point was to design a 'better' looking suit that still seems realistic or w/e?

 

[HUMANIMAL]

i like that .....welll maybe except the strings going away from the belt to his legs but this could also work as well.....

 

[Saint]

Its a movie and not real life so the whole purpose of the Batsuit is the look and comfort for the actor. So aren't arguments on protection and functionality moot points? I can see their validity if this were a real invention and certain criteria were needed to be met, you were filing for a patent, etc.

Nolan went with a design that he liked. Its pretty clear the "knight" theme is proliferated throughout the aesthetics of the suit from the chain mail like fabric portion to especially the shoulder and chest plates.

People like it and people don't.

Correct.

 

[phillyboy]

Here's how I see the comings and complaints of the new suit...

...Christian Bale was, as he said many times, extremely uncomfortable in the previous suit. He said it was hot, and that he couldn't move very well. My guess is that he had a lot of say in this new suit. There was probably a lot of discussion on it not having to be so bulky (a-la a thinner Bale), and being much more streamlined than the previous suit. Thus we get the thinner neck that allows movement and along with it a thinner suit, which also allows more movement. I just have a great hunch that Christian had A LOT to do with it.

On the cowl...no one was *****ing about the nose when the first picture was released a year ago with Batman standing on the police car. No one was *****ing when we saw the first trailer. Hell, no one was *****ing when the character banners came out and that was only a month ago. One or two bad images hardly represents what we will see. Especially when compared to all of the images we have seen up until this point. The image on the magazine was a bad choice and bad lighting obviously. I just doubt very much it is what we will see on film. Why? Because we have 2 trailers that says otherwise.

The belt...Nolan is a huge fan of the belt. He has said so in the past. It is his favorite part of the Batman get-up. The belt is fine, and looks identical to begins IMO.

TDK is gonna be fantastic. I would suggest focusing on the great story and phenomenal acting rather than nitpicks over the suit, cowl etc...

EDIT: I will admit, however, that I want a bigger bat symbol.

I approve this message.

 

[Saint]

I thought the whole point was to design a 'better' looking suit that still seems realistic or w/e?

Correct. Since the harness is not important to either goal, judgements on the harness are beside the point, by virtue of the harness' presence not being necessary to the goals.

 

[inflames]

Correct. Since the harness is not important to either goal, judgements on the harness are beside the point, by virtue of the harness' presence not being necessary to the goals.

Well I was just saying I didn't like the look of the harness, that's all. No secret hidden message. *sigh*

 

[batman11]

Anyone else think that perhaps the TDK suit is the Mark II for the Military suits that Wayne Enterprises were creating? I'm throwing this out there, because of the way the Mark I suit looked before Bruce painted it black. It sorta had "mesh cuts" to it, just not as prominent as the TDK suit. Perhaps the TDK suit is the Mark II, an extension of the Mark I, and the mesh parts were never painted over by Bruce?

If anyone could get a screenshot of the scene when Fox pulls out the suit in BB to show Bruce, you may see what I'm talking about.

 

[magus]

I like that 3rd manip, personally. It reminds me of the WB revamp of the animated series. The second one is nice as well, though it reminds me of Solid Snake with a cowl; lose the leg straps and I would accept that as well. The first manip is hard to judge based on the pose and the artwork but seems well enough.

I personally don't care much either way about the suit: I like it well enough that it doesn't piss me off when I look at it but I do understand some of the complaints and I do believe there were better alternatives.

 

[Saint]

The point has been made millions upon millions of times and we need to move on, yes they are busy and weird looking but for christ's sake you won't even see them half the time unless your literally going to sit there in the theater and analyze the legs for 2 and a half hours. Talk about making mountains out of mole hills.

Well I was just saying I didn't like the look of the harness, that's all. No secret hidden message. *sigh*

I know. I was only explaining that it's not relevant to the purpose of my post.

While we're here, consider the post I quoted above. Since you apparently feel it is reasonable to complain about harness straps, perhaps you should reconsider you position that it is unreasonable to complain about roadmap legs.

 

[inflames]

I know. I was only explaining that it's not relevant to the purpose of my post.

While we're here, consider the post I quoted above. Since you apparently feel it is reasonable to complain about harness straps, perhaps you should reconsider you position that it is unreasonable to complain about roadmap legs.

I said it was unreasonable because it's been spoken about to death, so I don't see your angle.

 

[deathfromabove]

damn.

 

[deathfromabove]

i have always loved this design. i would have loved a more bermijo-esq design for the armor.

Aside from elements of the design serving no purpose (roadmap legs), the purposes served by other elements could have easily been replicated in a more faithful manner.

the roadmap legs are strange looking but i believe they do serve two purposes. the mesh allows the leg to fit more snugly but the shapes help to prevent buckling when he crouches by allowing more independant movement and still providing the appearance of protection. it also seems to me they would provide bale with more ventilation than solid rubber would.

my opinion on the suit is that it does indeed look too busy in some of the promo shots but on film it looks fantastic so far. when heavily shadowed it gives batman a really defined musclature that a less busy (and smoother) suit might not. it also helps to reinforce the idea of escalation. his suit looks more armored, more intricate, and more "extreme" than before reinforcing the idea that things have gotten rougher in gotham. im not saying any of these things could not have been acheived any other way.

i will (per usual) reserve judgement until i see it in action. the true test of any costume designed for the screen is how it looks on screen.

 

[Saint]

I said it was unreasonable because it's been spoken about to death, so I don't see your angle.

I am not certain how it's frequency makes it any less reasonable. If this is your logic, you must also think that every single person who comes in and says "I like the suit" is also being unreasonable, since that has been "spoken about to death." You must also think that your own post, where you said that it's been said a million times, is also unreasonable, since that, too, has been said a million times.