The Dark Knight Capes and Cowls - New Batsuit Discussion Thread

[inflames]

the roadmap legs are strange looking but i believe they do serve two purposes. the mesh allows the leg to fit more snugly but the shapes help to prevent buckling when he crouches by allowing more independant movement and still providing the appearance of protection. it also seems to me they would provide bale with more ventilation than solid rubber would.

my opinion on the suit is that it does indeed look too busy in some of the promo shots but on film it looks fantastic so far. when heavily shadowed it gives batman a really defined musclature that a less busy (and smoother) suit might not. it also helps to reinforce the idea of escalation. his suit looks more armored, more intricate, and more "extreme" than before reinforcing the idea that things have gotten rougher in gotham. im not saying any of these things could not have been acheived any other way.

i will (per usual) reserve judgement until i see it in action. the true test of any costume designed for the screen is how it looks on screen.

*bows* AMEN.

 

[inflames]

I am not certain how it's frequency makes it any less reasonable. If this is your logic, you must also think that every single person who comes in and says "I like the suit" is also being unreasonable, since that has been "spoken about to death." You must also think that your own post, where you said that it's been said a million times, is also unreasonable, since that, too, has been said a million times.

You know just forget it, you're right, I'm wrong. I'm dumb and your the all knowing intellectual being. Unlike you I'm not going to write an essay on the littlest things in the world.

 

[Saint]

the roadmap legs are strange looking but i believe they do serve two purposes. the mesh allows the leg to fit more snugly but the shapes help to prevent buckling when he crouches by allowing more independant movement and still providing the appearance of protection. it also seems to me they would provide bale with more ventilation than solid rubber would.

As has been explained in the past, the flexibility point would be valid if the breaks were designed to conform to points of stress or buckling, but they're not. They're designed too look like techy junk. There aren't a lot of places on the leg that require breaks, and even if you add a couple of breaks just to be safe, you don't wind up with TDK legs. Adding a bunch of superfluous breaks where there's no reason to do so won't create extra mobility, and designing them to look like angular, technological nonsense won't, either. If the breaks were designed in a way conducive to mobility (such as in Wams drawing), well, there would be no problem (or, at least, the problem would be significantly marginalized). As it stands, it's just nonsensical, unnecessary, and unpleasant.

Ventilation (for Bale's sake, not for story purposes) is likely a valid point, but as explained by the Guard, ventilation is mostly needed in the neck and head, not the extremities. And, in either case, I'd rather Bale sweat a little more than wear an ugly suit.

 

[Saint]

You know just forget it, you're right, I'm wrong. I'm dumb and your the all knowing intellectual being. Unlike you I'm not going to write an essay on the littlest things in the world.

Since my comment was not an essay and did not require an essay in response, I can only conclude that your decision to no longer participate has nothing to do with an aversion to essay posts.

 

[bunk]

no offense but the straps or w/e they are going around the legs looks like crap.

There are "no strap" versions as well.

That's the beauty of keeping designs simple; refining them is relatively easy.

 

[deathfromabove]

I am not certain how it's frequency makes it any less reasonable. If this is your logic, you must also think that every single person who comes in and says "I like the suit" is also being unreasonable, since that has been "spoken about to death." You must also think that your own post, where you said that it's been said a million times, is also unreasonable, since that, too, has been said a million times.

this logic only works if you hold the opinion that everything is worthy of the same level of analysis and discussion and that every statement is worthy of further insight in order to make it valid.

personally, i dont.

its kind of a bit like "the boy who cried wolf". by overanalyzing nearly every statement you respond to, your valid and worthy statement have no weight or real value because people are going to eventually stop listening (or caring). as any good writer will tell you sometimes less is more.

(to be fair you do seem to have adopted this mentality a bit more as of late. whether that is a conscious effort to make your posts more readable or just a sense of apathy over discussing the same points over and over im not sure.)

 

[inflames]

Since my comment was not an essay and did not require an essay in response, I can only conclude that your decision to no longer participate has nothing to do with an aversion to essay posts.

I don't understand why you feel the need to respond to everything with a word for word response out of a text book, frankly it's annoying and you come off as a jerk. Just because you use big and fancy words doesn't mean your any better or superior and yea I know you never claimed such a thing but that's the vibe you give off.

 

[Saint]

this logic only works if you hold the opinion that everything is worthy of the same level of analysis and discussion and that every statement is worthy of further insight in order to make it valid.

Yes, I am aware of that. I chose the statements I compared it to accordingly. I think repeated complaints about the suit, which are at least routed in critical examination of the costume, are no less worthy of discussion than the admission that one likes the suit, or the complaint that the comment has been made ad nauseam, and perhaps more worthy, depending on the specific instance.

its kind of a bit like "the boy who cried wolf". by overanalyzing nearly every statement you respond to, your valid and worthy statement have no weight or real value because people are going to eventually stop listening (or caring). as any good writer will tell you sometimes less is more.

One's decision to "stop listening or caring" seems more his/her problem than mine.

 

[deathfromabove]

As has been explained in the past, the flexibility point would be valid if the breaks were designed to conform to points of stress or buckling, but they're not. They're designed too look like techy junk. There aren't a lot of places on the leg that require breaks, and even if you add a couple of breaks just to be safe, you don't wind up with TDK legs. Adding a bunch of superfluous breaks where there's no reason to do so won't create extra mobility, and designing them to look like angular, technological nonsense won't, either. If the breaks were designed in a way conducive to mobility (such as in Wams drawing), well, there would be no problem (or, at least, the problem would be significantly marginalized). As it stands, it's just nonsensical, unnecessary, and unpleasant.

i disagree. i think they are designed to provide maximum mobility while also looking like "techy junk". when bale crouches or bends his leg the flexible and presumably stretchy part of the suit (the mesh) will bend and give but the rigid parts will not bend becasue they are much more um rigid. but the space between the rigid parts will expand and contract along with his movement so the "plates" need to fit together but never touch. they look interlocking because they are designed to move


Ventilation (for Bale's sake, not for story purposes) is likely a valid point, but as explained by the Guard, ventilation is mostly needed in the neck and head, not the extremities. And, in either case, I'd rather Bale sweat a little more than wear an ugly suit.

this isnt true. while true the head must not get overheated ventilation in the extremities is what will prevent this. all ventilltion helps to keep the head cooler. thats why some running shorts have vents as well as some running shoes. ask a runner if they help. i think you know the answer.

further more, ventilating the head further isnt really an option so they do what they can to keep the suit cooler. since your thighs are the largest muscle group in the body, keeping it cool makes a lot of sense imo.

and again, im not saying any of these things could not have been achieved any other way.

 

[Saint]

I don't understand why you feel the need to respond to everything with a word for word response out of a text book, frankly it's annoying and you come off as a jerk.

When someone says something to me, I respond to their points. I don't think this is undesirable.

Just because you use big and fancy words doesn't mean your any better or superior and yea I know you never claimed such a thing but that's the vibe you give off.

I write in the way that is most comfortable to me, and I'm not concerned if you decide it makes me a jerk.

 

[inflames]

When someone says something to me, I respond to their points. I don't think this is undesirable.


I write in the way that is most comfortable to me, and I'm not concerned if you decide it makes me a jerk.

Ugh you are the most unenjoyable conversationalist I have ever met.

 

[Saint]

i disagree. i think they are designed to provide maximum mobility while also looking like "techy junk".

Naturally, but it's a question of degrees. To what degree are they designed for mobility, and to what degree are they designed to look like technological nonsense? The amount of unnecessary an nonsensical breaks not conducive to mobility suggests they were more concerned with the appearance of technological nonsense. As I said, the breaks aren't the issue. The stupid way they were designed is the problem.

Perhaps consider the Begins legs; looks at where the lines are on the thighs and kness. If you patterned your breaks on those lines, you'd have the same mobility, but it wouldn't look like crap. You could add an extra break or two if really necessary, and still have a superior design with comparable mobility.

when bale crouches or bends his leg the flexible and presumably stretchy part of the suit (the mesh) will bend and give but the rigid parts will not bend becasue they are much more um rigid. but the space between the rigid parts will expand and contract along with his movement so the "plates" need to fit together but never touch. they look interlocking because they are designed to move

I understand the principle.

this isnt true. while true the head must not get overheated ventilation in the extremities is what will prevent this. all ventilltion helps to keep the head cooler. thats why some running shorts have vents as well as some running shoes. ask a runner if they help. i think you know the answer.

I didn't communicate myself clearly enough: I didn't mean to say that extremity ventilation was not helpful, just that body and head ventilation is more important. I'm not a runner, so I can't speak to that, but I can say that when I'm hot skiing, taking my gloves off or rolling up my sleeves won't do the trick--I've gotta open up my jacket.

further more, ventilating the head further isnt really an option so they do what they can to keep the suit cooler.

I think it's possible they could incorporate some discreet ventilation in the ears of the cowl.

and again, im not saying any of these things could not have been achieved any other way.

Naturally.

 

[Saint]

Ugh you are the most unenjoyable conversationalist I have ever met.

I wish I had room to put this in my signature. Instead, I'll add it to the random quote rotation at my forum.

 

[The Guard]

My problem is with the implication of who she is as a character if in the end, in her "retirement" she goes back to the sex industry, as a madam. Thats a completely different outlook on her story than the "overcoming prostitution" angle, which is far more inspiring than having her go back to the prostitution game in the end.

What Miller did with her story arc seemed to completely lessen and ignore her career as a world class thief.

Why? She's a thief and a supervillain. What makes you think Batman would let her keep any of the stuff she stole? Where does a lifetime thief go in her old age, when she has trouble getting a good job because she's a felon?

I am loving the argument that the ugly ass leggings reduce ugly buckling. Classic rationalization right there.

Man, I don't know. I really love the new Got Milk? shot of the Batsuit. I think it looks great, and the legs are starting to grow on me.

You are lost to us.

 

[inflames]

I wish I had room to put this in my signature.

Your like a friggen robot, you show zero human emotion are you even interested in seeing the movie? or are you just on here to say that Nolan has it all wrong and you could do better? if so then by all means start putting your money where your mouth is.

 

[Saint]

Your like a friggen robot, you show zero human emotion

Where in our conversation would I need to emote?

are you even interested in seeing the movie? or are you just on here to say that Nolan has it all wrong and you could do better? if so then by all means start putting your money where your mouth is.

I fully expect to love the movie, as I like most of what I've seen. Batman Begins happens to be my favourite film. That said, liking the movie does not mean I have to love every decision the production makes. I am still capable of examining the film critically and recognizing it's missteps.

 

[lujho]

Who said anything about a belt of leather? If anything, the faithful alternative is more realistic, as it would be based on the belts worn by police officers, SWAT, military, etc.

Are you kidding? Because that belt would look CRAP. If I saw Batman wearing that belt I would burst out laughing. And probably assume that he was somehow gay. But If I saw him wearing a gold watchband around his waist I would piss myself with fear. Or something.

 

[Saint]

Are you kidding? Because that belt would look CRAP. If I saw Batman wearing that belt I would burst out laughing. And probably assume that he was somehow gay. But If I saw him wearing a gold watchband around his waist I would piss myself with fear. Or something.

Jeeze, what was I thinking?

 

[lujho]

Do they do what Batman does? Something like that would cause the various gadgets to gt in the way and hamper movement which we all know isn't something Batman would want to do.

IMO, of course

YES! They do what Batman does, they ****ing fight crime and bad guys. Jesus Christ it's just a belt. And it's just a movie. You seriously think a belt like that would cause any problems whatsoever in the filming of a movie? Actors have had to do with more troublesome costume elements.

 

[BatmanFanatic]

This is the suit the likes of Lujho and myself have been describing since...forever. It is also the suit appearing in many of the manips posted on this board.

I agree that would be a far better version of the suit. But it seems clear that for "thematic" reasons, Nolan and the production designers have decided to amp up the "Knight" theme...and thats the reason we get a crap suit.

Actually, from the "Got Milk" pic alone, we can see he has two grenades, and about two metallic pouches containing bombs and what not. I'd say that's something.

And when you are talking about making it tinier, are you referring to the transition from BB to TDK? Or just in general? Cause I'm pretty sure the two belts are the exact same size.

I mean from the comics to live action. It's way too tiny in all the movies =P

I know it might look a little better, but it makes his belt useless to have it be just a piece of jewelry rather than pouches that can actually hold something. If a live action film designed the belt just how it was in the comics, but made it BLACK, I think it would work nicely and few purists would complain. The color is less of a liberty to take than the size and style.

]

And which "realistic" consideration requires overdesigned armour plates? Or roadmap legs? Which "realistic" consideration disqualifies a cleaner, streamlined design? Which "realistic" consideration disqualifies alternative designs that serve the exactly same purpose while simultaneously being faithful, as demonstrated many times in this very thread?

There's this idea that the suit serves a toned down, modern, realistic aesthetic, but it doesn't. It doesn't look real, it doesn't look SWAT inspired. It's not toned-down. It's over-the-top Sci-fi body armour. The really sad truth, though, is that the same people who complain about faithful alternatives being "unrealistic" don't seem to realize that those alternatives contain the exact same elements that afford the "realism" Nolan's suit enjoys, just designed in such a way that they are not ugly, and are more appropriate to Batman.

If someone wants to tell me they prefer the TDK suit based on visual appreciation alone, that's fine--but the idea that it needed to look that way to be convincingly realistic, protective, or functional simply does not fly. Aside from elements of the design serving no purpose (roadmap legs), the purposes served by other elements could have easily been replicated in a more faithful manner.

My theory is that people who like the films are going to find any excuse to justify the choices made, even when they're bad choices. There has been way too much rationalization about everything on these forums, from Bales skinny appearance ("In real life Batman needs to be an agile, quick ninja guy...") to the crazy techy suit ("Hey man, it's more realistic that Batman would need a ton of armor plates everywhere to protect his skinny @$$...")

But the truth is you cant apply Batman to reality or reality to Batman. This is all aesthetics. It's all the choices of the creative team, the director, the designers. There are no "logical" reasons for any of this stuff, it's just however they want Batman to look. And if they want him to look like a Knight from an outer space swat team from the future, that's what he's going to look like.

 

[Watson]

In terms of the new suit having more pieces because it improves ventalation, I think that it is a moot point because I'm pretty sure they have always built in cooling systems for the Batsuit (such as a vest that is worn underneath the suit that has cold water pumped into it) or they have a fridge truck on set that the actor can sit in between takes (I think I remember Bale saying something to this end). Though while shooting there may be some discomfort caused by heat, ventalation is clearly not a priority in the design since they have other ways of dealing with it. If ventilation were, surely we would have ended up with a more comfortable and breathable cloth suit?

 

[Midnite]

Is the TDK costume designer the same one from Batman Begins?

 

[Hole Shot]

The point of the TDK costume, weather you like it or not is to maint the armored look while giving the actor full range of motion and comfort. Some love it, some hate. As I said before, I'm waiting to really see it in context before judging rather than forming an opinion by overanalyzing the same still shots we see.

My theory is that people who like the films are going to find any excuse to justify the choices made, even when they're bad choices. There has been way too much rationalization about everything on these forums, from Bales skinny appearance ("In real life Batman needs to be an agile, quick ninja guy...") to the crazy techy suit ("Hey man, it's more realistic that Batman would need a ton of armor plates everywhere to protect his skinny @$$...")



But the truth is you cant apply Batman to reality or reality to Batman. This is all aesthetics. It's all the choices of the creative team, the director, the designers. There are no "logical" reasons for any of this stuff, it's just however they want Batman to look. And if they want him to look like a Knight from an outer space swat team from the future, that's what he's going to look like.

You spend to much time assuming you know how people that disagree with you think.

If ventilation were, surely we would have ended up with a more comfortable and breathable cloth suit?

As I said, they still want to have the armor look and this design I think gives them the lightest and most mobile option. I think the final product is going to look on screen.

 

[Superhobo]

I don't understand why you feel the need to respond to everything with a word for word response out of a text book, frankly it's annoying and you come off as a jerk. Just because you use big and fancy words doesn't mean your any better or superior and yea I know you never claimed such a thing but that's the vibe you give off.

Where is the TDK Tivo thread? Where is the TDK Tivo thread?!

 

[inflames]

Where is the TDK Tivo thread? Where is the TDK Tivo thread?!

what the ***** are you getting at?