Captain America has lost his moral authority

[Willowhugger]

Captain America has lost his moral authority....

I was supporting Captain America only reluctantly after we started to see Gulags, hunting down superheroes, freeing supercriminals and all the other stuff that comes from overwhelming government craziness in action.

Now...I've come to the conclusion Captain America is a dick.

Let's face it. Captain America is easy to root for. However, his behavior since the start of this has become borderline insane. Let's review some of his wonderful tactical decisions upfront.

* He finds out about the Registration's clause about hunting down bad guys, is nearly gunned down. Does he report this to the media? Retire? No, he declares WAR.
* He recruits a bunch of kids and tells them not You need to go lay low and retire from this but "Abandon your families and work with me in a gurilla war that has no definite end" (it's FEDERAL LAW moron-they'll be on the run for the rest of their lives).
* He expects Hank Pym to join with him on this bizarro crusade of his and live his life on the run too.
* He dismisses the fact that Peter Parker has a VERY GOOD reason for supporting Registration and made a heartfelt decision based on the idea it was for MONEY.

That especially bugs me and shows me Captain America is a no down, lying, dirty ingrate whom apparently has no faith in his friends and no judge of character. He turned his back on them and apparently can't understand there's MERIT to the position.

* His words towards Peter during Issue 3# are beyond the pale and frankly of a dirtbag that I wish Spidey had pounded within an inch of his life. Captain America has NO idea what this kind of problem is.
* His cheap shot at Iron Man also removes any semblance of moral authority the man has.

Who the hell does Captain America think he's fighting anyway? Nazis? He's fighting a democratically created LAW that's about people no longer being allowed to be vigilantes. It's always been outlawed before and he's never been beating up Police for going after Spiderman. No, apparently his ego can't take the idea that HE'S outlawed and instead he dismisses the others as traitors.

His behavior is increasingly sickening.

 

[The Leaguer]

This thread is sickening.

 

[Joker]

I totally disagree with every single one of your points

 

[The Leaguer]

I only had one.

 

[Vanguard07]

I disagree wholeheartedly. The registration act is a mistake. Cap is right to be fighting it.

People have a right to privacy. the SHRA is just the first step towards fascism.

Maybe the act alone could be acceptable if the MU government could be trusted even one tiny bit but look at their track record. Look at the Xavier institute, once a haven for mutants, now practically a concentration camp.
Now the government is backing known supervillains and demonizing heroes.
They're sending shield agents out to arrest people for being good samaritans. They're making it a federal offense to be a good human being unless you're a registered good human being.
What if a guy who takes karate lessons stops a mugging? are they gonna throw him in prison for being an unregistered combatant?

First it's people with powers and masks, then it's people with powers, then it's people with skills. Eventually it'll just be people.
"noone was left to speak out when they came for me"

Cap may have made strategic mistakes because he was naive about his friends loyalties but morally he's absolutely in the right. His comments are the result of a highly emotionally charged conflict and him lashing out because he's hurt by the percieved betrayals by his friends who honestly should know better. Harsh words dont make him a bad person.

and a vote doesnt make a bad idea less bad.
Hitler was elected remember? This law is just another mistake that'll have horrible results.

 

[Willowhugger]

Well lets look at it this way. Captain America is unwilling to talk to people he's gone to war with on dozens of occasions and is perfectly willing to beat the crap out of them....including Spiderman whom he should KNOW would never lay a finger on him unless he threw the first punch.

The way Captain America is behaving (Crazy) it's no wonder he sided with Tony (wrong as Tony is).

We need someone whose against BOTH of these losers.

I'd LIKE to believe in Captain America but all I can tell is the fact that he doesn't want to show the REAL Enemy (Maria Hill, whomever ordered Nitro to blow up Stanford) but instead paint it black and white. It's not.

 

[Kevin]

This thread is sickening.

 

[The Leaguer]

Well lets look at it this way. Captain America is unwilling to talk to people he's gone to war with on dozens of occasions and is perfectly willing to beat the crap out of them....including Spiderman whom he should KNOW would never lay a finger on him unless he threw the first punch.

The way Captain America is behaving (Crazy) it's no wonder he sided with Tony (wrong as Tony is).

We need someone whose against BOTH of these losers.

Like Captain America.

 

[Willowhugger]

Like Captain America.

I would like to know where he's gone at this point. It's like he's been exchanged with his Ultimates counterpart to be perfectly honest.

 

[The Leaguer]

No, ultimate Captain America is still in the Ultimates. Captain America is in his own title, and Civil War, and New Avengers, and a few other cameos.

 

[JackBauer]

* He dismisses the fact that Peter Parker has a VERY GOOD reason for supporting Registration and made a heartfelt decision based on the idea it was for MONEY.

honestly? I stopped reading after this RIDICULOUS argument, because if there is one hero who has all the reasons to go against the registration, it's Spider-Man.

 

[Tropico]

There's an official Civil War thread. After CW#3 came out about four more threads for things that could have been discussed in the same thread have sprung up. Then we get another thread like this from a person that doesn't even get what Cap is about. Why? WHY?!?!

 

[LouFerignoDemon]

I agree, and disagree. But most people will simply disagree simply without thinking about it because you blasted Cap there pal.

 

[Willowhugger]

honestly? I stopped reading after this RIDICULOUS argument, because if there is one hero who has all the reasons to go against the registration, it's Spider-Man.

Well that's the point, Spiderman has been defensive his entire life and what has it got him? Let's see......his CHILD MURDERED BY THE GREEN GOBLIN. Frankly, were I him, I too would look into the option of having friends to turn to and the authorities to protect his family as opposed to having nowhere to run to.

I bought the belief he wants to be a person appreciated for what he's done. Great issue.

Captain's belief that being unmasked is bad? WHEN HE IS A PUBLIC SUPERHERO...the height of hypocrisy.

 

[The Cleric]

how so? just because he is unmasked doesnt mean he believes its the best thing to do, or the right thing. hell, he is the only one thinking like an american. its all about freedom, and it is obvious that he knows the structure of the government, or the powers that be, to not fully trust them. to serve the people, which is what he is doing rightfully by NOT being monitered or controlled. even more important, not making every heros loved one a target to the countless villians who appear daily. how can you honestly think that being forced to reveal urself is right when you live by the ideas of what America is about?

 

[Ookami_Wolf1]

Captain America, Steve Rogers, is not arguing or fighting to protect his own name. He is fighting for those who have enemies that will hunted down and kill those that they care for. Hell Norman Osborn is now annoyed because everyone is going to be able to beat down on MJ and Aunt May before he can, due to Peter's going public. Being forced to do one thing or another is not a choice. Freedom is about choosing which path you wish to take, not having it shoved down your throat.

 

[Willowhugger]

Captain America, Steve Rogers, is not arguing or fighting to protect his own name. He is fighting for those who have enemies that will hunted down and kill those that they care for. Hell Norman Osborn is now annoyed because everyone is going to be able to beat down on MJ and Aunt May before he can, due to Peter's going public. Being forced to do one thing or another is not a choice. Freedom is about choosing which path you wish to take, not having it shoved down your throat.

That's the crazy part though. Who exactly is going to have this problem? Daredevil? Spiderman?

The two heroes WHOM ALREADY NOW HAVE PUBLIC IDENTITIES?

The Young Avengers have a bigger problem in the fact they're being ripped from their lives.

It's not like SHIELD didn't know their idenities anyway.

 

[The Cleric]

its about making it public, not into shield database.
who will have that problem? lets see.... how about every hero who puts a villian away. that villain would say "revenge will be mine"!!! how does he get? maybe would be smart enough to attack indirectly, by spying on the hero, see who the hero "chills" with, then whacking that person. in conclusion, EVERY HERO HAS THAT PROBLEM

 

[Ookami_Wolf1]

That's the crazy part though. Who exactly is going to have this problem? Daredevil? Spiderman?

The two heroes WHOM ALREADY NOW HAVE PUBLIC IDENTITIES?

The Young Avengers have a bigger problem in the fact they're being ripped from their lives.

It's not like SHIELD didn't know their idenities anyway.

Which Daredevil, Matt Murdock, or the new Daredevil? So you think that younger people have no right to decide what path they will take? Welcome to fascist-ville, population: YOU!

 

[Marcdachamp]

You didn't like V for Vendetta, did you?

Cap isn't being a dick, he's fighting for his beliefs. Tony deceived Cap first, and tranquilized two of his friends, too. Why should he want to listen to what he has to say at all?

 

[The Cleric]

willowhugger doeasn't seem to understand that.

 

[villejo]

I'm with Cap all the way, and I reall can't understand Spidey's decison. He is totally different from Senators and judges.
1. He isn't an elected official involved with politics.
2. He is the one who kicks ass and takes names, he does the dirty work, and everyone he puts away will want his head on a platter, instead of the judge who found him guilty (Aunt May doesn't know what she's talking about).
3. He has supervillians to worry about, and now it's not just GG, and Venom, it's now anyone who can get info from Shield.

 

[villejo]

You didn't like V for Vendetta, did you?

Cap isn't being a dick, he's fighting for his beliefs. Tony deceived Cap first, and tranquilized two of his friends, too. Why should he want to listen to what he has to say at all?

True that.

 

[Kool-Aid]

You didn't like V for Vendetta, did you?

Cap isn't being a dick, he's fighting for his beliefs. Tony deceived Cap first, and tranquilized two of his friends, too. Why should he want to listen to what he has to say at all?

Why can't he fight with words? Why does he have to try and beat up his friends that he's "trying to protect"?

 

[Willowhugger]

I loved V For Vendetta

However, the fact is that I don't necessarily believe Captain America has reason to believe it's degenerated to that point yet and he seems to show a remarkable lack of trust in his friends that he normally trusted to save the world.