Endgame Captain America/Steve Rogers - Chris Evans

[nickelette424]

In TWS, Peggy says something about Cap looking so young. I know she had dementia but that line in hindsight with Endgame would indicate that she had seen Cap when he was old; ala the one who travels back in time and lives out his life with her.

She doesn't mentioned anything about how young he looks. After she slips out of lucidity, she forgets that she's seen him since he's been out of the ice and proclaims, "you're alive!"

 

[Webfoot Hero]

After seeing the conclusion to the Steve-Bucky arc, I do wish it had been dealt with a bit more. Just feels that it got the short end of the stick in both IW and Endgame.

 

[KRYPTON INC.]

After seeing the conclusion to the Steve-Bucky arc, I do wish it had been dealt with a bit more. Just feels that it got the short end of the stick in both IW and Endgame.

I'm of the mind that it was kinda fumbled right from the start. TFA does a poor job of making the audience believe in the relationship and despite all the funny slash memes etc. I don't think TWS or CW did all that much to further it. We are told a lot about how it's this deep friendship and Steve takes actions that indicates what Bucky means to him but we aren't ever really shown it I'd say outside of the scene that takes place after Steve's mother dies in TWS and honestly, that felt tacked on to me, almost an admittance that you didn't really get a sense of their bond in TFA.

This is where I think the change from the comic hurt a MCU film. If Bucky had been a markedly younger guy, say a soldier Steve meets and takes under his wing during his time in Europe and they showed us this older brother protective relationship it would make more sense. That type of guilt is an easier sell to me. Instead Bucky dies halfway through and it doesn't really register in TFA. Make it Bucky "dying" during the final mission of TFA like the comics and it would be one of the last things people remembered from the film. Then when Bucky shows up again in TWS it would feel more meaningful, at least that's how I see it.

 

[The Caped Knight]

Yes. I hope he has a greater part in Black Panther 2 as The White Wolf.

I think Bucky will get more focus in the Disney + show (Falcon & The Winter Soldier)

 

[Iceman]

I think Bucky will get more focus in the Disney + show (Falcon & The Winter Soldier)

Yes I’m looking forward to that. Although I hope he gets some film appearances too.

 

[The Caped Knight]

Check out this review quote about Chris Evans.

 

[universeman]

Has this been posted yet?

Spoiler

Looks like the writers disagree with the directors.

Fandango: So people are asking... Does this mean an old Captain America was hanging out this whole time while another Captain America was saving the day?

Christopher Markus: That is our theory. We are not experts on time travel, but the Ancient One specifically states that when you take an Infinity Stone out of a timeline it creates a new timeline. So Steve going back and just being there would not create a new timeline. So I reject the "Steve is in an alternate reality" theory.

I do believe that there is simply a period in world history from about '48 to now where there are two Steve Rogers. And anyway, for a large chunk of that one of them is frozen in ice. So it's not like they'd be running into each other.

Exclusive Interview: The 'Avengers Endgame' Writers Break Down The Biggest Moments in The Movie [Spoilers!] | Fandango

 

[KevTravels]

After seeing the conclusion to the Steve-Bucky arc, I do wish it had been dealt with a bit more. Just feels that it got the short end of the stick in both IW and Endgame.

Bucky should have gone on the run with Cap after T'Challa healed him. The scene in BP could have featured Shuri informing him Cap needs his help.

 

[The_Manhunter]

Spoiler

How is he a Gary Stu? He still lost, even with the powers of Thor, and with Thor and Iron Man fighting alongside him.

Meanwhile Scarlet Witch and Captain Marvel are both powerful enough to solo Thanos on their own as long as he doesn't have the Infinity Stones.

In what way is Captain America the overpowered one here?

Spoiler

It seems pretty simple to me. The power is inside Thor, and the hammer was created to help Thor channel that power. Later, as punishment for Thor's arrogant, wreckless, and violent behavior, Odin stripped Thor of his power and sealed it inside the hammer, then made an enchantment that would give the power to any worthy person (Odin was basically implying that Thor himself would never be worthy, so he would give the power to anyone else who was). However, after the hammer is destroyed by Hela, the enchantment is rendered moot and Thor eventually learns how to access his powers on his own.

Then Thor retrieves the hammer from the past, when the enchantment is still in effect, so when Cap picks it up he recieves the power that is still locked inside the hammer.

Spoiler

For me, what should make a character like Cap interesting doesn't come from summoning lightning and fighting superpowered beings. It's in the moments like his speech before they go back in time. The hammer both distracts from Cap and takes away something special from another character (mainly the latter). That's why I dislike it so much.

 

[The Caped Knight]

The Russo Brothers kinda answer Cap's final story
Spoilers beware
'Avengers Endgame' directors answer Captain America mystery

 

[BoredGuy]

I have to go with the Russo's on this

Spoiler

Him being Peg's secret husband all this time would create so many plotholes, and would directly contradict what the film had already established. Marcus and McFeely may be the writers, but they have to be wrong on this.

 

[KRYPTON INC.]

 

[Elayis]

Spoiler

If it truly is an alternate timeline instead of Steve always having been Peggy's husband, it destroys the Cap as a character and his moral high ground.

In the end Steve is not any better than anyone else. He's not some paragon of virtue, he's not even a good man. He willfully chose to erase Peggy's children from existence and the life she had built with her husband so he could selfishly have her for himself, as if she was some possession for him to take. He didn't care about her or what she wanted, the only thing that mattered to him was that he finally got the girl he'd had a crush on for 12+ years. They didn't even have a relationship, just a single kiss. His love isn't cute and romantic, it's creepy and stalker-like.

The only way that ending can work and still preserve Cap's morality is that he was always Peggy's husband. Maybe he assumed a fake identity, or used the stone to alter other peoples perception of him. It wouldn't be the first time a time traveling love interest was handled this way. My guess is that this was the reason the identity of Peggy's husband was never revealed.

Otherwise, the Russos have ruined Captain America. This is something Marvel should've had nailed down from the beginning, and the fact that the writers and directors are in disagreement is troubling.

 

[ZenTheAvenger]

Spoiler

If it truly is an alternate timeline instead of Steve always having been Peggy's husband, it destroys the Cap as a character and his moral high ground.

In the end Steve is not any better than anyone else. He's not some paragon of virtue, he's not even a good man. He willfully chose to erase Peggy's children from existence and the life she had built with her husband so he could selfishly have her for himself, as if she was some possession for him to take. He didn't care about her or what she wanted, the only thing that mattered to him was that he finally got the girl he'd had a crush on for 12+ years. They didn't even have a relationship, just a single kiss. His love isn't cute and romantic, it's creepy and stalker-like.

The only way that ending can work and still preserve Cap's morality is that he was always Peggy's husband. Maybe he assumed a fake identity, or used the stone to alter other peoples perception of him. It wouldn't be the first time a time traveling love interest was handled this way. My guess is that this was the reason the identity of Peggy's husband was never revealed.

Otherwise, the Russos have ruined Captain America. This is something Marvel should've had nailed down from the beginning, and the fact that the writers and directors are in disagreement is troubling.

Spoiler

On the contrary, it being an alternate timeline gives Steve the chance to be with Peggy knowing that he IS NOT erasing her husband and children in the Prime timeline.

It gives them the chance to have their life together without effecting what has already happened in the Prime timeline.

It fits perfectly with Cap now that he understands how the time travel works, he realised he could have his life with Peggy without ruining lives for anyone else.

Peggy's husband and children always were and always will be in the Prime timeline. Cap just created his own branch reality for them where they could have the life that was so cruelly taken away from both of them.

A fitting end.

 

[Elayis]

Spoiler

On the contrary, it being an alternate timeline gives Steve the chance to be with Peggy knowing that he IS NOT erasing her husband and children in the Prime timeline.

It gives them the chance to have their life together without effecting what has already happened in the Prime timeline.

It fits perfectly with Cap now that he understands how the time travel works, he realised he could have his life with Peggy without ruining lives for anyone else.

Peggy's husband and children always were and always will be in the Prime timeline. Cap just created his own branch reality for them where they could have the life that was so cruelly taken away from both of them.

A fitting end.

Spoiler

That conflicts with the film's rules about time travel. The reason why the stones had to be returned to exactly the moment they were taken was to ensure their absence didn't adversely effect the future.

Of course the movie throws this out when Loki steals the Tesseract, but I assume his tv series will address this (not that that excuses it).

Ergo, they didn't actually change anything. What happened always happened, and they really did visit their past. The Peggy he married was not from an alternate timeline, as the movie went to great lengths to state that an alternate timeline would have negative consequences. If she was from an alternate timeline, then there's no reason to assume that timeline was any different than the main one. Peggy would've married and kids with someone else, but Steve robbed her of that.

 

[Mr. Peanut]

Spoiler

For me, what should make a character like Cap interesting doesn't come from summoning lightning and fighting superpowered beings. It's in the moments like his speech before they go back in time. The hammer both distracts from Cap and takes away something special from another character (mainly the latter). That's why I dislike it so much.

Spoiler

That's fair enough (though I don't feel the same way), but that still doesn't make him overpowered or a Gary Stu when he uses Thor's hammer. He still gets his ass whooped by Thanos, and Thanos in turn gets his ass whooped by Scarlet Witch, who in turn gets her ass whooped by Thanos's spaceship, which in turn gets obliterated by Captain Marvel (who also would've whooped Thanos if it wasn't for the Power Stone). That puts Cap at least a few levels below "overpowered" tier in this movie.

 

[Zarex]

I much prefer the writers explanation for what Cap did.

Spoiler

He was Peggy's husband all along - maybe he found that out while in her office - and traveled back in time to set the universe right.

Citizen Steve kept mostly to the shadows, and didn't do any super heroing. But maybe he joined the PTA, organized blood drives & tried to root out injustice wherever he saw it. But this time without trying to punch his way out of everything.

Of course, he's going to have an EXTREMELY uncomfortable conversation with his wife after her niece is born.

 

[ScarlettW]

Spoiler

The problem with him being her husband this whole time is that I can not see him sitting there living a happy life while he knows Bucky was being tortured, knowing that the shield was infiltrated by Hydra, Tony's parents would die, the misfortunes in the world without doing anything.
He living in an alternative line does not make sense because it sounds as if he went to that perfect world where he made friends, saved bucky, built family, a world without problems than the real.

If they wanted a happy ending, they could have retired him, give the dance, and he would back to Sharon Carter.

 

[The_Manhunter]

I'm of the mind that it was kinda fumbled right from the start. TFA does a poor job of making the audience believe in the relationship and despite all the funny slash memes etc. I don't think TWS or CW did all that much to further it. We are told a lot about how it's this deep friendship and Steve takes actions that indicates what Bucky means to him but we aren't ever really shown it I'd say outside of the scene that takes place after Steve's mother dies in TWS and honestly, that felt tacked on to me, almost an admittance that you didn't really get a sense of their bond in TFA.

This is where I think the change from the comic hurt a MCU film. If Bucky had been a markedly younger guy, say a soldier Steve meets and takes under his wing during his time in Europe and they showed us this older brother protective relationship it would make more sense. That type of guilt is an easier sell to me. Instead Bucky dies halfway through and it doesn't really register in TFA. Make it Bucky "dying" during the final mission of TFA like the comics and it would be one of the last things people remembered from the film. Then when Bucky shows up again in TWS it would feel more meaningful, at least that's how I see it.

I fully agree with this. I liked what we got for the most part but I think this could have made it a lot better.

 

[ArmsHeldOut]

Problematic as both situations are,

Spoiler

the Russos' theory makes the most sense here (and I use that term loosely lol) as it better aligns with the events of the film. Like Hulk explains, mucking around in the past doesn't change the present. Nebula proves this when she incurs no physical harm whatsoever upon slaying her counterpart from an earlier timeline. The Nebula who perished, in fact, belongs to an alternate reality wherein Thanos never had the chance to kill Gamora and subsequently use the Infinity Stones to halve the universe's population. Similarly, Cap's excursion to the 1940s would result in a number of divergences from mainstream continuity by virtue of him just being there. And yet, we're explicitly shown that changes to the past have no bearing on what has already transpired in a preceding period of time. What gives then? If an established course of events cannot be overwritten in one time but prevented in another, you're essentially acknowledging that the latter is a distinct offshoot of the former.

 

[KRYPTON INC.]

I think the part where Steve does no real altering to the timeline of the prime MCU begs another question in regards to Thanos from the past... Nebula herself seems up to speed on the branching timelines idea, almost as if this was for her common knowledge. So... I assume Thanos has a similar view on all this. Does Thanos not care about the branch he left from? As long as he gets to cleanse A timeline/universe it's cool beans that there are others?

Damn my fanboy brain for thinking to hard on this!

 

[ArmsHeldOut]

I think the part where Steve does no real altering to the timeline of the prime MCU begs another question in regards to Thanos from the past... Nebula herself seems up to speed on the branching timelines idea, almost as if this was for her common knowledge. So... I assume Thanos has a similar view on all this. Does Thanos not care about the branch he left from? As long as he gets to cleanse A timeline/universe it's cool beans that there are others?

Damn my fanboy brain for thinking to hard on this!

I'm also curious about the future of our reality now

Spoiler

that the stones have been destroyed. As per Ancient Tilda, removing just one of them from the time stream can have catastrophic consequences. Hmm. Could Marvel be using this not only as a plot device/catalyst for introducing X-Men and F4 but also to gradually build toward a multiverse incursion epic, as informed by "Time Runs Out" in New Avengers and Secret Wars 2015?

 

[KRYPTON INC.]

Smiley cap in A1 outfit makes it.

 

[KRYPTON INC.]

Speaking of A1 costume for Cap...

In A1 Cap had his headpiece ripped off and while fighting alongside the others during the battle of New York he takes fire and the suit gets damaged. But in both the rerun of the "I'll have that drink now" scene and when current Steve encounters past Cap the suit is undamaged and of course past Cap has his cowl back on when the two fight.

I get that they needed the audience to distinguish the two during the fight. Still... it sticks out a bit to me upon reflection. But... So it goes with a complex story with time travel and multiple versions of characters running around.

 

[Xeno]

I much prefer the writers explanation for what Cap did.

Spoiler

He was Peggy's husband all along - maybe he found that out while in her office - and traveled back in time to set the universe right.

Citizen Steve kept mostly to the shadows, and didn't do any super heroing. But maybe he joined the PTA, organized blood drives & tried to root out injustice wherever he saw it. But this time without trying to punch his way out of everything.

Of course, he's going to have an EXTREMELY uncomfortable conversation with his wife after her niece is born.

I have an off-the-wall but really plausible theory about Sharon Carter. Just hear me out:

Spoiler

There is evidence from the Agent Carter TV show that Sharon was not related to Peggy.


We know from the Agent Carter series is that Peggy only had one brother, Michael, who died.* There was never any indication that Michael had children, therefore Peggy couldn't have had a niece, great or not. My theory is that Sharon simply used the coincidence of sharing Peggy's last name to pretend to be the former SHIELD director's relative. Peggy's dementia helped with that deception, preventing her from realizing that Sharon was an imposter (if they ever even met).

Although Sharon Carter represented herself as Peggy's great-niece, at no time did we see the two of them together. Sharon was allegedly talking to Peggy in TWS when she and Steve met in their apartment building, but for all we know that was a ruse on Sharon's part.

Why would Sharon pretend to be Peggy's niece? Well, for one thing, the supposed relationship could have helped her SHIELD career. Being the niece of the legendary Agent Carter would be very impressive to those deciding whether to accept Sharon for training and her own skills would put her over the top. Another possibility is that Sharon was one of the many Captain America 'stans in the MCU, like Phil Coulson and Scott Lang. From her actions in TWS, we saw that she was extremely loyal to Captain America, much like Scott is. When Cap was found in the ice, Sharon could have seen an opportunity to get closer to her idol.


Spies are deceptive by nature. Sharon just used the opportunities that fell into her hands to get what she wanted.