Casting the DC Universe

[Franklin Richards]

The Smallville universe spinning off into the DC film universe would be brutally horrible and convoluted.


Thankfully they aren't going that way.



I'm all for the DC films having one universe; but tying the whole thing to a CW drama that 3 million watch is ******ed.

How do you know?


And remember Smallville has prolly made more cash than Superman Returns and all the films combined. These businessmen don't really care about art...


they care about the bottom line.

 

[Man of Tomorrow]

I disagree. These forums just happen to be super sticklers for the look of Supes. Its pretty ridiculous. An actor with a good enough look that can knock the ball completely out of the park performance would and should always be better than an "actor" with an off-the-page appearance and barely passable acting ability

And such a known actor has never been suggested on the boards..


Hence why a replacement for Routh would have to be an unknown, and the casting search for the prior Superman projects leading into SR was extensive.


Any role that requires that kind of extensive and meticulous search is by default a difficult role to cast.

 

[Man of Tomorrow]

How do you know?

So you're claiming WB/DC is setting up Superman, Flash, Green Arrow, Aquaman etc to all be spinoffs of Smallville...? .... and the Smallville universe will be the DC film universe?

Do you realize how unimportant and irrelevant Smallville is to the Warner Bros film studio?

And remember Smallville has prolly made more cash than Superman Returns and all the films combined. These businessmen don't really care about art...they care about the bottom line.

Because it's been running 8 years on TV.. that doesn't mean it would be profitable as a 200 mil budget movie..


Not to mention, it's utterly pointless using the convoluted continuity backdrop of Smallville for a Superman film when Warners is trying to reintroduce the character with a completely new fresh take.


We're getting an origin story for Superman most likely, due to the impeding issues with Superman's origin beyond 2013.

Why would they want to re-tell Smallville's already established convoluted take on the origins on the bigscreen?

 

[cerealkiller182]

And such a known actor has never been suggested on the boards..

Because like I said people are incredibly held up on looks. Ive seen plenty of other actors actually brought up, most of which have been dismissed for appearance purposes.

Hence why a replacement for Routh would have to be an unknown, and the casting search for the prior Superman projects leading into SR was extensive.

I dont see why there is such a call for "unknowns"

Any role that requires that kind of extensive and meticulous search is by default a difficult role to cast.

It doesnt. There is a considerable lack of open-mindedness that has led to a "Routh vs Cavill debate, no other takers allowed."

Before the whole "Ryan Reynolds as Gl and Deadpool? Why doesnt he just play everyone?" cynicism, I pushed for him as Superman. Most negative replies were I like him as an actor, but his face doesnt work. He's not straight off the panel, but easily passable as far as movie look to comic look ratios have been.

 

[Metamorpho1977]

personally I like Michael Rosenbaum for Wally. He can handle the wit, and the seriousness in Wally pretty good I think. He did good on the JLU cartoon with the character and I think he can do it.

 

[Man of Tomorrow]

sure they can do that but then we are just getting things into a confusing place again. like how sr was a vauge sequel/quasi sequel to superman 1 and 2. If its clean slate i and i know others out their would want it to be a total clean slate. To help this next film totally step away from all the faults SR was and to not have anything holding it back.

There's nothing about Brandon that would hold it back with general audiences; that's the key.


Superman Returns is barely even remembered today; imagine it by 2012/13.

Brandon Routh isn't even a household name; so it wouldn't be confusing in the slightest for ticket buyers.



With the film development in the short-term and Routh still in contact with Alan Horn and Warners and a favorite of the studio, right now... things look promising for him.

But it all depends whether Warners will actually proceed with the development of Superman or find a loophole to stall it for years..... the later would be the end of Brandon of course.

 

[Franklin Richards]

So you're claiming WB/DC is setting up Superman, Flash, Green Arrow, Aquaman etc to all be spinoffs of Smallville...? .... and the Smallville universe will be the DC film universe?

No. I'm claiming that Welling might be cast as Superman. Pulling in the tested actor and vaguely recalling his past as Superboy.

Do you realize how unimportant and irrelevant Smallville is to the Warner Bros film studio?
Because it's been running 8 years on TV.. that doesn't mean it would be profitable as a 200 mil budget movie..
Not to mention, it's utterly pointless using the convoluted continuity backdrop of Smallville for a Superman film when Warners is trying to reintroduce the character with a completely new fresh take.

Smallville was a great focus group for a film. Hardly unimportant. The ratings alone are sufficient for a business to proceed. As far as the continuity I'm sure they don't care. Star Trek benefited from bringing back Khan from a vague TV continuity. They didn't feel the need to adhere to every aspect of that episode. Khan acted like he knew Chekov and nobody but the biggest geek cared.

We're getting an origin story for Superman most likely, due to the impeding issues with Superman's origin beyond 2013.

Why would they want to re-tell Smallville's already established convoluted take on the origins on the bigscreen?

They wouldn't have to retell his origin. A simple recap during the credits would be sufficient. And I'm sure other people agree with me that if I have to see Superman's origin one more ****ing time, I'm gonna scream.


These aren't my preferences. I'm just speculating.

 

[Man of Tomorrow]

Because like I said people are incredibly held up on looks. Ive seen plenty of other actors actually brought up, most of which have been dismissed for appearance purposes.

Because Superman has always been 50% a physical role. The look is very important.

Just as Marvel's Thor is.

I dont see why there is such a call for "unknowns"

That's always how Superman has been cast; mainly because the required look facially and proportions is so uncommon with known actors.

It doesnt. There is a considerable lack of open-mindedness that has led to a "Routh vs Cavill debate, no other takers allowed."

Cavill isn't even being considered by Warners according to ThinkMcfly's studio connections.

So such a debate on this board and BT (that's the extent of it.. lol) is utterly pointless nevertheless.

Before the whole "Ryan Reynolds as Gl and Deadpool? Why doesnt he just play everyone?" cynicism, I pushed for him as Superman. Most negative replies were I like him as an actor, but his face doesnt work. He's not straight off the panel, but easily passable as far as movie look to comic look ratios have been.

He has the physical proportions indeed but not the facial resemblence; not even in the slightest.


Superman doesn't wear a mask, a visual facial resemblence to the character is a must. The studio has learned from the mistakes of the 90s; like Nick Cage.

 

[cerealkiller182]

Because Superman has always been 50% a physical role. The look is very important.

Just as Marvel's Thor is.

That's always how Superman has been cast; mainly because the required look facially and proportions is so uncommon with known actors.

I disagree. It requires this to an extent, but the extent people hold it too is far beyond what is necessary.

And they didnt even find someone who looks like Thor. Besides being physically big and having occasionally long blonde hair, his look compared to Thor is WAY less than what people are considering for Superman appearance.

Cavill isn't even being considered by Warners according to ThinkMcfly's studio connections.

So such a debate on this board and BT (that's the extent of it.. lol) is utterly pointless nevertheless.

Regardless, its not that hard as long as people take their heads out of their asses and actually find someone performance worthy rather than Superman incarnate. Superman is the only character they are searching for this and it is nowhere near as important has people pretend.

He has the physical proportions indeed but not the facial resemblence; not even in the slightest.

Superman doesn't wear a mask, a visual facial resemblence to the character is a must. The studio has learned from the mistakes of the 90s; like Nick Cage.

Hes a drawing. His characterisitcs have changed from artist to artist. You dont need someone who looks like they jumped off the page. Just like everyother superhero, you find someone who can actually act like the character who looks enough like the character. Masks are irrelevant considering in most superhero stories you eventually see that person without the mask so appearance is still a concern, just not a life or death one.

 

[Man of Tomorrow]

No. I'm claiming that Welling might be cast as Superman. Pulling in the tested actor and vaguely recalling his past as Superboy.

Haha.

Well you'd have to ignore the fact that Welling doesnt want to play Superman and "stay out of the tights" (real quote by him) and that he's had zero connection or relevance to the film studio since his brief meeting with Ratner in 2003

Welling having any association with the current Superman project that Warners is developing is ridiculously unlikely. Like I'd say less than 0.1%.

Smallville was a great focus group for a film. Hardly unimportant. The ratings alone are sufficient for a business to proceed. As far as the continuity I'm sure they don't care. Star Trek benefited from bringing back Khan from a vague TV continuity. They didn't feel the need to adhere to every aspect of that episode. Khan acted like he knew Chekov and nobody but the biggest geek cared.

Smallville's ratings are mediocre. They're good for the lameass CW network but incredibly weak compared to the other networks; and will drastically decrease with the move to fridays.

Comparing it to Trek is apples and oranges. Trek was a show cancelled before it's time that a strong fan movement over a decade of syndication and replays let to an eventual reunion movie...then a film franchaise.

They wouldn't have to retell his origin. A simple recap during the credits would be sufficient. And I'm sure other people agree with me that if I have to see Superman's origin one more ****ing time, I'm gonna scream.


These aren't my preferences. I'm just speculating.

Your speculation is pretty far reaching... but at least you recognize its speculation.

And prepare to scream because a fresh origin take is the best bet we're getting thanks to the heirs acquiring the origin by 2013.


It wouldnt be a simple recap; there's 9 years of convoluted stories to cover that would be a relevant to a year one Superman film;

How Clark met Lois in highschool, Fake Jimmy Olsen dying and Jimmy's little brother being the real Jimmy, Clark's past with Lex, Lex's death, Brainiac's origin, Clark's past with Brainiac, Clark's past with the Kents, Jonathan's death, Why Clark and Lois are already at the Planet, the Red-Blue Blur etc


Smallville has pretty much already established everything from Superman's origins in their own convoluted and halfassed way except Superman...


It would be an incredibly complicated task to spin a CW drama with a 3 million audience to something seen worldwide by people who have never followed the series.

And an incredibly unnecessary task

 

[Franklin Richards]

I've got one thing to say.



White Chicks 2.

 

[Franklin Richards]

double

 

[Man of Tomorrow]

I disagree. It requires this to an extent, but the extent people hold it too is far beyond what is necessary.

And they didnt even find someone who looks like Thor. Besides being physically big and having occasionally long blonde hair, his look compared to Thor is WAY less than what people are considering for Superman appearance..

I'd say the look is very necessary.

Even Routh took a lot of flack for supposedly appearing 'too skinny and youthful' for Superman during SR.... this wasn't just with the fanboys but with the gen audience and media.

Routh himself even addressed this in interviews. There's ALOT of emphasis placed on Superman's look. There's no way around it. People want to see Superman look like Superman.

That's part of the reason why unknowns are always cast in this role.

Hes a drawing. His characterisitcs have changed from artist to artist. You dont need someone who looks like they jumped off the page. Just like everyother superhero, you find someone who can actually act like the character who looks enough like the character. Masks are irrelevant considering in most superhero stories you eventually see that person without the mask so appearance is still a concern, just not a life or death one.

Yet there's no artists or known Superman comic artwork that visually resembles Ryan Reynolds or anywhere close.

The characters do take off their masks with their civilian identities but the superhero identity is most important from a visual standpoint.

 

[Man of Tomorrow]

I've got one thing to say.



White Chicks 2.

Ha.


We can take this discussion to the Superman Casting thread.


This isn't what I had this thread made for.

 

[cin0]

Smallville's ratings are mediocre. They're good for the lameass CW network but incredibly weak compared to the other networks; and will drastically decrease with the move to fridays.

hold up, hold up, hold up. smallville's ratings are mediocre? smallvile is one of the highest rated shows on television period, how is it mediocre? if u think im lyin check me.

1. True blood
2. NCIS
3. Family Guy
4. House
5. Bones
6. Greys Anatomy
7. Private Practice
8. Lost
9. Weeds
10. Smallville

it may be at the bottom of the top ten but its ratings are hardly mediocre.
no disrespect to u, but that statement is false.

 

[Changeling]

I'm 100% sure that Welling won't be Superman, and all these movies DEFINITELY wont be spin offs of Smallville. Trust me

 

[MadVillainy]

wait where are you getting you're numbers from?

True Blood? I thought American Idol was the top rated show on TV

http://www.zap2it.com/tv/ratings/za...1_num+,cdb_05_txt+&PageSize=50&Page=1&Query=*

 

[cin0]

i doubt it too, and wouldnt really want to see unless it looked really good in previews. the only reason star trek got a movie spin off was because the show was iconic and it had been off air for long time. this wont happen for smallvile because it hasnt even finished and is planning on going for a 10th season and top of that it really hasnt change the way people think of great television shows. star trek was something very unique at the time and still had fans after the show went of air. i might be able to see this happening 20 years from now.

 

[cin0]

wait where are you getting you're numbers from?

True Blood? I thought American Idol was the top rated show on TV

http://www.zap2it.com/tv/ratings/za...1_num+,cdb_05_txt+&PageSize=50&Page=1&Query=*

your source is for primetime only, though. true blood doesnt come on during primetime that's probably why.

 

[Man of Tomorrow]

Where's your ratings list from?

Look at the numbers on Blackman's list 12,190,000 - 26,880,000 million viewers for the top 20.


Smallville is generally in the 3 million range nowadays give or take. It's bound to decrease beyond that too with the move to Fridays.

The CW is a network that's really in the mud right now.


There's no way SV would have lasted as long on any of the successful networks; CW is the same network that gave Charmed 8 seasons and 7th Heaven 11 Seasons..

Smallville's supposed "success" is really relative to the network it's on.



Nevertheless, it's completely irrelevant to the WB film studio and the DC films franchaises that we're discussing in this thread.

 

[cerealkiller182]

I'd say the look is very necessary.

Even Routh took a lot of flack for supposedly appearing 'too skinny and youthful' for Superman during SR.... this wasn't just with the fanboys but with the gen audience and media.

Routh himself even addressed this in interviews. There's ALOT of emphasis placed on Superman's look. There's no way around it. People want to see Superman look like Superman.

That's part of the reason why unknowns are always cast in this role.

Thats body. Bodys can change. Im talking about the face. If there is a hair out of place fanboys jump all over the suggestion.

Yet there's no artists or known Superman comic artwork that visually resembles Ryan Reynolds or anywhere close.

The characters do take off their masks with their civilian identities but the superhero identity is most important from a visual standpoint.

That wasnt my point that Superman and Ryan Reynolds look exactly alike. IMO Ryan looks enough like the character to hypothetically play him, but as usual people scrutinize the Superman actors more than necessary. There is absolutely no reason for it. Im not saying appearances arnt important, Nic Cage as Superman is a bad idea. But an actor with reasonable enough look makes up for it easily with acting ability. When appearance is held more important to talent that talent isnt even discussed anymore, there is a serious problem. These people are casting a movie not a photoshoot.

 

[Man of Tomorrow]

Thats body. Bodys can change. Im talking about the face. If there is a hair out of place fanboys jump all over the suggestion.

Okay, well I can't speak for the fanboys.

And I agree the body can change; but the general audience does place emphasis on the physical look of the character, that was my point.

That wasnt my point that Superman and Ryan Reynolds look exactly alike. IMO Ryan looks enough like the character to hypothetically play him, but as usual people scrutinize the Superman actors more than necessary. There is absolutely no reason for it. Im not saying appearances arnt important, Nic Cage as Superman is a bad idea. But an actor with reasonable enough look makes up for it easily with acting ability. When appearance is held more important to talent that talent isnt even discussed anymore, there is a serious problem. These people are casting a movie not a photoshoot.

Well it's all a matter of opinion I suppose.


Personally I don't see a facial resemblence between Ryan and Superman at all; not enough to be passable in the role. Same with his voice, delivery and acting style.

I think someone like Cavill has a 'reasonable' look even if the studio doesnt want him.


I can't speak for all the fanboys but RR's definitely a much better fit for Flash and Hal Jordan than Ryan Reynolds as the last son of Krypton.

 

[cerealkiller182]

Okay, well I can't speak for the fanboys.

And I agree the body can change; but the general audience does place emphasis on the physical look of the character, that was my point.

And Im not trying to disprove that. Steve Buscemi should not play Batman. My point is when it comes to superman people look for perfection in looks, and IMO would sacrifice acting talent for appearance.

Well it's all a matter of opinion I suppose.


Personally I don't see a facial resemblence between Ryan and Superman at all; not enough to be passable in the role. Same with his voice, delivery and acting style.

I think someone like Cavill has a 'reasonable' look even if the studio doesnt want him.

At all? Frankly the only thing that is incredibly different is his chin is much thinner. His voice and acting style has matured over the years. Like most people in his position, he has performed excellently in independents.

Now considering this is a manip with stuble and fake hair and odd coloring(forgot who did it, but its not mine), I think he looks convincing enough to back it up with performance.
Picture

Spoiler

AND BEFORE SOMEONE FREAKS ABOUT HIM PLAYING TO MANY SUPERHEROES. IM NOT ADVOCATING HIM (anymore). JUST TRYING TO PROVE A POINT.

I can't speak for all the fanboys but RR's definitely a much better fit for Flash and Hal Jordan than Ryan Reynolds as the last son of Krypton.

I dont disagree with that, although IMO he has grown out of Flash and is better suited for Hal at this point. I was using him as hypothetical.

 

[Man of Tomorrow]

And Im not trying to disprove that. Steve Buscemi should not play Batman. My point is when it comes to superman people look for perfection in looks, and IMO would sacrifice acting talent for appearance.
At all? Frankly the only thing that is incredibly different is his chin is much thinner. His voice and acting style has matured over the years. Like most people in his position, he has performed excellently in independents.

Now considering this is a manip with stuble and fake hair and odd coloring(forgot who did it, but its not mine), I think he looks convincing enough to back it up with performance.
Picture

Spoiler

AND BEFORE SOMEONE FREAKS ABOUT HIM PLAYING TO MANY SUPERHEROES. IM NOT ADVOCATING HIM (anymore). JUST TRYING TO PROVE A POINT.

Sorry dude, the manip doesn't help. Facially he still doesn't resemble the character.

Here's something better than still pictures; a recent interview with him with slightly darker hair:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p2adGZ9ytG4

There's like zero resemblence to Superman facially IMO but your mileage may vary.

 

[cerealkiller182]

Your obviously looking for someone who looks EXACTLY like Superman with absolutely no wiggle room. If his chin was wider, we wouldnt be having this conversation IMO. But oh well.......