Superman Returns CG Superman Ragdoll?

[Spare-Flair]

Maybe it's just me, but I find your concerns to be completely ******ed.

You site a couple of split second shots from SR like you know what the CG in the movie is going to look like. I've got a couple of suggetions that maybe you should consider:

1. Do you need a shot like in SIII where the MX (or whatever thay damn missile was called) makes Supes do some sh**ty backflips?

I said I thought the plane sequence looked great and wasn't intended to be in the clip. I never even mentioned it in my original post.

2. The scene in BB that you reference is a ahot of a human hanging from an actual moving object as it moves down a city street. In no way should this be compared to a shot of someone trying to save a plane.

The point is the effort made to use human stunt actors in every feasible scene. Therefore, in very simple sequences like him falling from above or him landing, they could have easily just filmed the actual actor against a greenscreen...or do you think the CG of him landing looks good or better than if it were actually him jumping?

3. We all saw shots of Batman hanging from something while moving (the helicopter in Batman Forever) and the only shots that looked sh**ty were the live action shots.

I think those teeney little snippets looked fine, and I'm not even a fan of GCI

Most of Batman Forever looked ****ty and I wasn't aware there was any CG used in it for action shots aside from minatures. But the live action was comparable to the first two Batman films...the problem wasn't in the live action but the mise en scene being so ******ly colorful and tasteless.

Look, I admit they are just small snippets and in light of the whole 2 1/2 hour movie, it is pretty ******ed to be talking about petty things like this...but these are the same scenes we have seen in all the trailers and they stick out like sore thumbs...and they aggregate. What if other CG shots look like this? What if the whole film has sequences like this? This thread is about the 3D model of Superman and what we've seen specifically. I think the model of Clark is near perfect when they have him jumping onto the silo and running and flying through Smallville, the animation and physics feel spot on. I think the 3D model of Superman leaves much to be desired.

 

[GothicPowerMix1]

I think the 3D model of Superman leaves much to be desired.

That is your opinion & you are pretty much alone there

 

[Spare-Flair]

To bad it suffers the 80s Look. They need to get the LFL Guys that cleaned up the Original Star Wars Trilogy for the first DVD Release. They did an amazing job fixing up the Video

Yeah, but then they went and made Luke's saber green in A New Hope. You can't just go back and made old things look better. There are things all over the film that will still stick out or things that you will miss or cause more problems for. Consistency is the key and that's also what I'm talking about in this thread...consistency between amazing shots of Superman (the plane sequence is good) versus some very jarring "fake" shots like him falling and landing and who know what else might be in the final film. That's just like George Lucas throwing in so many CG extras and vehicles and aliens and effects into the original series and they stick out like sore thumbs. It ruins the consistency.

As for the old Superman films, I think they should leave it alone. The original Superman is limited by the horrible special effects in the background but better to leave it untouched. It's a product of it's time and age. I brought it out because I wanted to show that traditional live action choreography looks great and more natural than *some* CG shots that we've seen from SR. Even using motion capture balls on Routh and filming him from above or landing would have helped. It seemed like the animators just played with the model in the computer without motion capture.

 

[dark_b]

And there will always be people who deflect criticism by labeling the detractors as whiners. I've also a film student and this is average par for discussing and comparing technical merits.

What's my goal? I find myself simultaneously excited by several things in the film, but also let down in several areas. It's frustrating and I want it to stop. I like Singer, he's a great director for the human element in films. I just don't like him directing science fiction films because he overuses CG. I know my opinion isn't worth more than anyone else's on this board, everybody has a right to their opinion and whether to like or dislike this film.

WTF
this makes zero sense.

singer overusing CGI? for christ sake all people are saying that he is the one who uses minimum of CGI in hes X-men movies.


dude WTF seriously?

 

[KrypJonian]

I said I thought the plane sequence looked great and wasn't intended to be in the clip. I never even mentioned it in my original post.

But there was a clip attached. I'm noT the only person who thought that that is what you were referring to

The point is the effort made to use human stunt actors in every feasible scene. Therefore, in very simple sequences like him falling from above or him landing, they could have easily just filmed the actual actor against a greenscreen...or do you think the CG of him landing looks good or better than if it were actually him jumping?

I somewhat agree. But I don't want a shot like George Reeves jumping off a trampoline out a window (so to speak)
If they had BR in live action dropping frm the sky, it would either look too slow or it would look just like it does (if they sped it up)

Most of Batman Forever looked ****ty and I wasn't aware there was any CG used in it for action shots aside from minatures. But the live action was comparable to the first two Batman films...the problem wasn't in the live action but the mise en scene being so ******ly colorful and tasteless.

There was no CGI used in the first 2 Batman films, at least as far as Batman is concerned.

Look, I admit they are just small snippets and in light of the whole 2 1/2 hour movie, it is pretty ******ed to be talking about petty things like this....

I agree

 

[GothicPowerMix1]

(sighs) I give up its not worth it. You have fun complaining about every little thing possible.I really do get the impression that your another user on another name. You have fun complaining also knowing that no one else will agree with you

 

[KrypJonian]

Goodnight all, see you in the mornin...or afternoon if you're on CA time

 

[Spare-Flair]

WTF
this makes zero sense.

singer overusing CGI? for christ sake all people are saying that he is the one who uses minimum of CGI in hes X-men movies.


dude WTF seriously?

There's a lack of cohesiveness between the CG that he does use and the sets that he uses. It goes toward destroying the suspension of disbelief. Too many things end up looking like it was filmed on fake looking soundstages combined with CG. The same problems are in other movies, like Spider-Man for example. The rooftop scenes in both Spidey and SR come to mind.

GothicPowerMix1 - I hate complaining. I hate that the movie is turning out like this, that a franchise and comic that I've been reading for decades is resulting in this... and I've only ever been me on SHH. I hate that nobody else agrees with me on this forum and it's disheartening to the point where this will be the last thread I'll start with my complaints. You have my word on that. I'm preaching the wrong message to the choir here, you all are convinced that this is going to be a beautiful film and I'm glad you will all enjoy it and I'm happy you are all excited about it.

I've talked to my friends, other people on other forums, comic readers, casual fans, people I meet, etc. and typically they do agree with what I'm saying but it's not worth mentioning them because I know that is considered another one of those "baseless" arguements (fair enough, it is) as per SHH's typical criticisms against those that don't conform or care about details.

 

[Spare-Flair]

But there was a clip attached. I'm noT the only person who thought that that is what you were referring to

That was 1 frame of him flying back from the wing that accidentally got stuck to the part where he was falling. The falling sequence is what I was talking about.

I somewhat agree. But I don't want a shot like George Reeves jumping off a trampoline out a window (so to speak)
If they had BR in live action dropping frm the sky, it would either look too slow or it would look just like it does (if they sped it up)

The scene needs a little more impact and kinetic motion. The arms stuck to the sides in a robotic pose makes the scene look too static and Superman unnatural. And if Superman doesn't buckle since he is hard as steel...then the ground needs to reverberate or sink to a greater degree. I know this is like 2 second in the whole movie, but hey, I had to write an entire thesis on minute details like this in film school.

There was no CGI used in the first 2 Batman films, at least as far as Batman is concerned.

Of course not, why were you talking about live action being the only shots that sucked in Batman Forever then? Everything was live action & minatures (therefore the whole movie sucked which is obstensibly true but that is Shumacher's fault and not that live-action as a medium is somehow faulty).

 

[GothicPowerMix1]

I hate complaining. I hate that the movie is turning out like this, that a franchise and comic that I've been reading for decades is resulting in this... and I've only ever been me on SHH. I hate that nobody else agrees with me on this forum and it's disheartening to the point where this will be the last thread I'll start with my complaints. You have my word on that. I'm preaching the wrong message to the choir here, you all are convinced that this is going to be a beautiful film and I'm glad you will all enjoy it and I'm happy you are all excited about it.

A) If you hate coplaining then why do it ? There is a difference between discussions on a Message Board & Complaining. Nothing will change wether you either like it or not so it is useless to complain about these small things

B) Your using the VERY SMALL handful of People (which takes a VERY VERY VERY SMALL % of the entire Movie Fan Base as fact ? & you think that every Single other Fan thinks the same ?

C) You might as well just quit here. Please save us the trouble & go bother another Forum

 

[The Kid]

I'm looking at the pics and gif closely for something to complain about and agree with you on but I just dont see it.

I'll be on your side if like in the Matrix Reloaded, Supes turns into an obvious cgi double every other minute during an action scene and it stands out like bob sapp in japan, now THAT was bad overused cgi... but these few secs just don't look as bad to me if truly bad at all.

 

[Spare-Flair]

A) If you hate coplaining then why do it ? There is a difference between discussions on a Message Board & Complaining. Nothing will change wether you either like it or not so it is useless to complain about these small things

Because complacency is even worse. Superman is something I care about and I want it to be top quality.
"The freedom to speak one's mind is not only an aspect of individual liberty - and thus a good unto itself - but also is essential to the the vitality of society as a whole"
-C.J. Reinquivst, Supreme Court

The degree to which people on this forum especially (not so much on the other Superhero forums) seem to work together to quash criticism or people that don't seem to conform to the idea that the movie is fine irks me. That a movie like this can stir up controversy shows that it may have some weaknesses. That I criticize some aspects of the film is all I can do as per free speech to try and get people to understand my point of view which is ultimately all I can achieve as I know I can't change the movie. I've never attacked any of you for liking the movie or your points of view.

B) Your using the handful of People (which takes a VERY VERY SMALLL % of the entire Movie Fan Base as fact ? & you think that every Single other Fan thinks the same ?

Perhaps you missed the admission in my post that I understood it's futile to use my personal conversations as a valid argument here?

I've never taken any of that for a fact. The only thing I know for is fact is my opinion and those that I know in person. I've never said that any of you have to agree with me. I'm just presenting my arguements.

C) You might as well just quit here. Please save us the trouble & go bother another Forum

I usually hang out on the Batman, James Bond, Comic Books, and TV series boards on SHH which are much more open to debate and discussion. I find it alarming that this forum is so closed minded and dead to discourse.

 

[GothicPowerMix1]

I usually hang out on the Batman, James Bond, Comic Books, and TV series boards on SHH which are much more open to debate and discussion. I find it alarming that this forum is so closed minded and dead to discourse.

No we are open to debate. But when you complain about every little thing when we dont know how in the end they will come out is the annoying thing. This type of stuff should wait until AFTER EVERYONES SEEN THE DAMN MOVIE & your (Fire Bryan Singer) quote you have pretty much tells us your not looking forward to this Movie so why post here at all ? These post just cause trouble & pisses off an entire Board that is ACTUALLY looking forward to this Movie. Its one thing to not like a few things but it seems you clearly are not looking forward to / dont like this Movie in general. Why post in a Board that has to do with a Movie / Show anything you dont like or are not looking forward to ?

 

[Spare-Flair]

No we are open to debate. But when you complain about every little thing when we dont know how in the end they will come out is the annoying thing. This type of stuff should wait until AFTER EVERYONES SEEN THE DAMN MOVIE & your (Fire Bryan Singer) quote you have pretty much tells us your not looking forward to this Movie so why post here at all ? These post just cause trouble & pisses off an entire Board that is ACTUALLY looking forward to this Movie. Its one thing to not like a few things but it seems you clearly are not looking forward to / dont like this Movie in general. Why post in a Board that has to do with a Movie / Show anything you dont like or are not looking forward to ?

Because I care about Superman and I enjoy Superman to a ridiculous degree, but I saw what poor scripts and shoddy effects did to Superman III and IV and I'm seeing the same here (to a lesser degree) at least to my taste for details. I know that I'm not alone, I've read things from critics and comic book writers and artists (even those who worked on Superman) who echo my sentiments.

But you're right. I didn't want to believe it but you made me realize that yes, I'm not looking forward to this movie at all anymore and I guess I post out of frustration that I can't look forward to it anymore when once I really did...and it'll likely be this way for another 10-20 years until we get a reboot of the franchise.

Back on topic, my art and film background makes that CG stand out like a sore thumb and looks very artificial to me. Bad CG easily ruins movies for me. That's my problem and if none of you are seeing it, maybe I'm just too picky or jaded or cynical...but I'm not delusional. I'll butt out of here and stick to the caption thread where I can at least joke about things.

 

[GothicPowerMix1]

stick to the caption thread where I can at least joke about things.

Thats the whole point of the Caption Thread my friend

 

[DorkyFresh]

I'm of the completely opposite opinion. CG should be kept to a minimum and only for impossible sequences. I'd rather see real actors working hard in their roles. Reeve made wirework amazing...incorporating grace and flow from his experience as a glider pilot...the problem for him was the 1970s grainy film backgrounds on his flying.

that's an unfair comparison. you said CG should be kept to a minimum of only impossible shots, yet you're comparing shots from SR that OBVIOUSLY need to be CG to shots from S:TM that are some of the SIMPLEST shots to recreate...

...i agree that Superman is obviously CG in those shots, but they don't take me out of the movie because i don't acknowledge those shots as using a computer generated Brandon Routh.....i look at those shots and see Superman. if they take you out of the movie...i'm sorry that you're so hung up on the effects that you feel that way, but they're not going overboard with it. i would've used a CG Superman in those shots, as well, if i were put in Singer's shoes...

 

[Cinemaman]

I think CGI is very good in this film.

Besides we will also get Superman throwing New Krypton in space

Plane sequence looks great for me!

 

[Spare-Flair]

that's an unfair comparison. you said CG should be kept to a minimum of only impossible shots, yet you're comparing shots from SR that OBVIOUSLY need to be CG to shots from S:TM that are some of the SIMPLEST shots to recreate...

I don't know where everybody is getting that idea. I only want Superman falling and Superman landing to be real shots.

 

[ervann]

I thought the Dailey Planet Globe shot in the day (2nd trailer) look way to CG-obvious. Almost like an in-game sequence.

For great CG-cities, look no further than King Kong's 1930s New York.

 

[DorkyFresh]

I don't know where everybody is getting that idea. I only want Superman falling and Superman landing to be real shots.

even if they used the real Routh for both shots, i guarantee you that, even if you were satisfied, there would be hundreds of others who would probably think the shot looks even WORSE.

as a rule of thumb, not ALL live action shots look as good as CG shots. prime example......Peter Jackson wanted a particular shot for Return of the King where an oiliphant (huge elephant) rammed into another and both fell down. well, he had filmed real actors on horses and tried to use as much of it as they could, but it ended up looking weird so Peter Jackson told Weta to do the whole scene with CGI and it ended up looking EXACTLY how Peter Jackson wanted.

live action isn't always better. quit looking for special effects and you'll stop seeing them.

 

[Screenscribe]

I agree with Spare-Flair. And everyone here has a valid point. But just remember. Those of us who disagree did not step on your kitten, we did not key your car and we never took your lunch money. So when I look at something and say "looks fake, wire work would have been better" it is not a personal insult to you. I want this movie to work I'm sure more than any of you. Why? because I actaully had to put up with the previous producers of this film. I got a script many years ago to punch up and when I suggested that Superman should lose the black jetpack and glider wing I was taken off the project. I am THRILLED that the movie is being made. I want it to work. My concerns, and that of others, is not to insult you folks who like the movie, but not to be disappointed in it.

There nuff said

 

[Kane]

Spare-Flair complaining again...oh brother. I guess youre over the hair issue.

 

[BH/HHH]

The CG won't be finished yet. They won't put finished CG on the trailers so no one can rip it.

 

[Jakomus]

The Cg does not look obvious on the big screen. I don't know why, but it just doesn't.

 

[Lone]

The one where Superman is falling to Earth is definitely not cgi.

The other two I believe is a blend of both.

If you can't differentiate what is cgi and what isn't then I believe the animators/efx ppl deserve a big pat on the back for a job well done.