Chaos War

Eh, they worked with the Avengers against Proctor long enough that I'd consider it a fair assessment. I'm sure there are other Avengers who never got "officially" inducted.
 
But the thing is they've never been heard of since. The Avengers/Squadron Supreme Annual 1998 as a matter of fact. Steve Rogers offered them official slots but they turned it down. Iron Man then used Magdalane's power lance to create a portal to Earth S and they left with the Squadron.
 
So they were short-term members. Not really a big deal to me. Everyone still thinks of Rage as an ex-Avenger, even though he was only on for a short time before getting booted off for being underage.
 
Rage was actually introduced (along with Sandman) to the press as a probationary member.
 
The Avengers have a slew of "honorary" or "reserve" or "one-time" members. The old lady actress who Hawkeye & Mockingbird bought their WCA base from was made an honorary Avenger after she helped them beat Crossfire. I don't think D-Man was an Avenger for anything notable or important besides beating the Thing in a pie eating contest. Despite being the pen pal adopted daughter of Jarvis, Silverclaw has done so much of nothing in the last 10 years she may as well not have existed (she was a bit of a rip of Vixen anyway). I am sure Nova will be considered an Avenger in some Handbook list despite only being on Steve's secret team for one mission and accomplishing nothing besides getting brainwashed. And on it goes.

The Vision should've come back. I mean, really, Yellowjacket and Swordsman? Who even gave a f*** that they were dead? :cmad:

I like the idea of Rita DeMara coming back. She never really made a mark as a character originally, so she's a blank slate for Pak & Van Lente, or Gage, or whoever wants to use her. Also, nobody is using the Yellowjacket name right now. The last one was a Skrull and he's been dead 2-3 years. Much like "Wasp" is apparently a gender neutral name (even if everyone rightly mocked Pym for cross-dressing by using it to honor Jan), Yellowjacket is, too. Plus, as Janet Van Dyne is currently dead, DeMara could take her place as "shrinking lass with bug wings and bio-blasts". She has most of the benefits of being a new character without being one and having some history to poke at.

I'm with you on Swordsman, though. The one from "the Gathering" was still around if anyone wanted to use him, which they haven't since the 90's. While he was written well in DEAD AVENGERS, I wasn't rooting for him to come back. I wanted Deathcry back because there are so few Shi'ar characters who aren't owned lock, stock, and barrel by the X-office (or by now the space office) and she was one. Plus, she and Hercules used to hang out, so she could have become some sort of supporting character for him like Namora was for a bit. Granted, Rita told Thor she had "two dead Avengers who weren't dead" with her; either she meant Swordsman AND herself, or one of them survived off panel.

We've been over why Victor Shade can't come back. He can't come back so long as Jonas is the robot Vision guy now. It would supplant Jonas' importance and he's one of few Young Avengers who is actually filling a void anyone cares about; the rest of them are sidekicks no hero wants. They would look exactly the same in terms of design aside for height, and much like with Steve Rogers and James Barnes, artists would mess up their height differences anyway (I have never seen any artist draw Rogers as substantially larger if BOTH are dressed as Capt. America). The Young Avengers as they are remain a neglected, going nowhere, doing nothing franchise due to editorial mismanagement and Shade coming back would further that by making Jonas obsolete. At least these days anyone who wants the Vision has to use Jonas, and they usually figure they may as well have Stature tag along, and that's fine.

Are there ways that Victor could return and things be handled well? Probably. He could be made distinct in terms of design by donning his 90's era white look, even if that look symbolized a lack of personality (perhaps keep that design, but make it green or gold instead, his other colors). Ideally he would remain distinct, while having similar programming to Jonas and act as some sort of mentor figure who understands what Jonas is going through, having been programmed by someone else's brain waves and having a villain involved in that past, yet trying to be one's own man. However, the chance of editorial handling this even 10% as well as I described is literally less than zero. There are higher odds of Marvel selling an issue of NEW AVENGERS for one penny than this being handled well. I would rather see Victor stay dead than to have him return and then see either him or Jonas thrown to the wayside and handled poorly. Captain America and Iron Fist are the only legacy heroes Marvel has handled in any way, shape, or form well. And the era of Captain America being one may be due to come to an end for a film, and Iron Fist's only doing it well because he sells so poorly, editorial doesn't give a damn how well it's being handled. If Victor came back, only Heinberg would be allowed to handle him, and I have no faith in Heinberg to write anything in an above average way for long. Let the robot rest in piece. He had a good appearance in DEAD AVENGERS, and it provided him a much better "death" sequence than DISASSEMBLED did. That alone satisfies me.

Puck just became Lord of Hell in the recent issue of Wolverine. He got his hands on the Devil's soul-sword and was last seen saying to a bunch of demons, "That's right you sacks of crap, bow to the new big cheese! Now let's talk about how I get outta here!":awesome:

I knew Puck was involved in the "WOLVERINE GOES TO HELL" story (I'd say it's about time), but...he's Lord of Hell now!? Like Dan Ketch used to be? Sounds awkward.
 
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I don't think the Vision coming back does anything to Vision, Jr. He's the Vision for the Young Avengers; the Silver Age Vision is the Vision for the Avengers. Have him teach at Avengers Academy or something. Hawkeye being back and calling himself Hawkeye again hasn't done anything to damage Kate Bishop or revoke her use of the name or anything. :o
 
Turn Vision Jr back into Iron Lad if they bring back the old Vision. There can be only 1!
 
But then people will confuse Iron Lad with Iron Man! :awesome:

Tony can go run Stark Resilient as a civilian while Iron Lad, Rescue and War Machine take over the action. Fraction, make it happen! In 30,000,000 words or less preferably :mad::o
 
Turn Vision Jr back into Iron Lad if they bring back the old Vision. There can be only 1!

Hell no, there can easily be 2. If DC can have 8 Batman's and 5 Flashes, Marvel can have 2 Vision's. Vision 1 is plain old Vision and the other can be Vision Jr. and give him the all white synthetic skin the old Vision had. They're both written with different manners of speaking anyway.
 
Hell, even give the Silver Age Vision his albino look again to differentiate them. Or make him a real boy! :up:
 
I don't think the Vision coming back does anything to Vision, Jr. He's the Vision for the Young Avengers; the Silver Age Vision is the Vision for the Avengers. Have him teach at Avengers Academy or something. Hawkeye being back and calling himself Hawkeye again hasn't done anything to damage Kate Bishop or revoke her use of the name or anything. :o

Did Kate Bishop do anything important? No. WILL she do anything important? No. Did anyone treat her like "the new Hawkeye" back when he was Ronin? No. WILL anyone treat her like "the next Hawkeye" now that Clint is back in the old purple and arrows? Definitely not. Now on this I'm in favor of the original being back because Ronin was a stupid name/costume. But you can see how Kate Bishop has lost most of her relevance with a Barton who is back as an archer hero. There's no reason for her to really exist. She might work as Clint's sidekick - too bad Marvel heroes would literally rather teenage heroes die than dare inconvenience themselves to mentor them; even Steve Rogers.

The Young Avengers as a team are at this point a nothing team. They never do anything important and serve no purpose other than to fill out background panels in event battles. They're supposedly the Avengers of the future, which for merchandise purposes can never happen. The buzz from their franchise is gone and while we have Doom and Wanda in their latest bi-monthly affair, I'm not convinced as many people care anymore - we're just waiting for it to move on. Will they re-enter the freezer after Heinberg is done or will Marvel, 6 years too late, finally make long term plans without him? I don't think enough people care anymore. And that's a shame because for a moment they had their audience, and Marvel botched it. That's rare for new, younger characters and that sort of lightening never strikes twice. The only way they have any relevance is if they offer something that none of their adult counterparts do, if only an identity. Jonas being the only robot Vision forces anyone who wants to use Vision in an Avengers story to use him, and usually Stature alongside him. You bring back Victor, and sure, all the old school Avengers fans and writers are happy. But then Jonas loses the only thing that got him appearing in stories like CAPTAIN AMERICA REBORN or MIGHTY AVENGERS.

Is there a way for editorial to handle such a thing properly? Yes. But I know for a fact they wouldn't, and I'd rather not see myself proven right in this regard. Much like I am sure a slew of Cassandra Cain fans would have rather she stayed out of comics for years versus getting all those horrible appearances and stories.

Hell no, there can easily be 2. If DC can have 8 Batman's and 5 Flashes, Marvel can have 2 Vision's. Vision 1 is plain old Vision and the other can be Vision Jr. and give him the all white synthetic skin the old Vision had. They're both written with different manners of speaking anyway.

And that's not even counting the Golden Age Vision, who is in INVADERS NOW! and prior Invaders material.

Hell, even give the Silver Age Vision his albino look again to differentiate them. Or make him a real boy! :up:

I suggested the albino look earlier, the only problem is it symbolized a black slate, a lack of his identity at the time. If he returned to it, I'd rather he shifted to a shade of green or gold rather than white, since green and gold are his colors anyway (or yellow or whatever the colorist decides).
 
Jonas being the only robot Vision forces anyone who wants to use Vision in an Avengers story to use him, and usually Stature alongside him. You bring back Victor, and sure, all the old school Avengers fans and writers are happy. But then Jonas loses the only thing that got him appearing in stories like CAPTAIN AMERICA REBORN or MIGHTY AVENGERS.
You phrase this like there's some kind of problem, but I... don't see any problem here. :huh:
 
No, I just don't give a f*** about Vision, Jr. where the Vision is concerned. But I think they can easily coexist, personally. You're the one who insists that the Vision coming back may as well be like a bullet in the synthetic brain to Vision, Jr.
 
Vision Jr hasn't been seen hide or hair since SIEGE. Cap Reborn and Mighty Avengers were almost a year ago. He was getting minimal use there anyway. Make his dumb ass all red or something and call him The Scarlet Vision.
 
I came up with the red Vision thing on the fly because on his first cover appearance in Avengers #57 he was all red. The name makes sense historically.
 
For some reason those 2 were always listed as being Avengers but they never really served in an official capacity.

They basically did. Swordsman especially went on a fair amount of missions with them.
 
They basically did. Swordsman especially went on a fair amount of missions with them.

Not really, he and Magdalane were enemies of the Avengers at first but that was put on hold for Operation Galactic Storm. When they returned at the end of 92, Swordsman was captured by the Avengers and helped him sort out the mystery of who he was. He spent a lot of time in Avengers Mansion being voluntarily studied by Hank Pym. The Avengers eventually came across Magdalane and she joined after being betrayed by Proctor, plus she wanted to be by The Swordsman side again.

Before they were reunited, Maggie got caught up in some situation with the Kree and helped the team out. Then came the Bloodties crossover with the X-Men and they were nowhere to be found. After Bloodties the whole Proctor/Sersi/Black Knight saga was wrapped up and Bob Harras was off the book a few months later. All in all, they only were there for stories dealing specifically with them.
 
Swordsman participated in some of the **** dealing with Masque/Madame Masque as well. He wasn't a regular team member in the way that Hercules or Vision were at the time, but he wasn't a total non-factor.
 

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