Bought/Thought May 21st, 2008

[venom892]

Daredevil to me Remains Bendis greatest superhero work.That's not saying much but it was really good.Brubaker's killing it on the title right now though.He made Mr.Fear cool for god's sake.

 

[Xofenroht]

Brubaker is the ****ing man. This is the guy who drew me to Cap.

 

[fifthfiend]

post deleted due to eh, just not worth it.

 

[venom892]

Brubaker is the ****ing man. This is the guy who drew me to Cap.

Me too.I love his work.Ever read the Man who laughs?That's my second favorite Joker story of all time.

 

[Xofenroht]

I haven't read that actually. I'll have to check it out.

 

[Marcdachamp]

Um, yeah, the fact that the story doesn't actually read like one that's been planned for years supports our claims. You say that the Skrulls invasion is the big culmination of Bendis' Avengers saga, and yet before the NA: Illuminati #1 in 2007 there has been nothing. About. Skrulls. In his Avengers books. And he started writing the Avengers in 2004. And I don't mean that a Skrull should have appeared in the first issue and announced that they were going to invade, I mean that the fake Elektra that the New Avengers found could have turned out to be an Ewok in disguise and it would actually have been about as supported by Bendis' past issues as her Skrull reveal was. The addition of Skrulls into his storyline -- and that's what it was, an addition -- didn't resolve anything. It didn't pay off an earlier moment or answer a ongoing question; all it did was to be random and arbitrary.

And it would be different if, say, Bendis actually had any sort of track record at all of setting up significant stories in advance or had any history whatsoever of cleverly paying off a long-running plot point...but, no, he doesn't. In fact, as Dread has mentioned, he has the opposite of that. So, again I ask, can you give us even a tiny bit of reason to take Bendis at his word here other than "Well, he said so, and I really really want to believe him"?

The Kree/Skrull War is referenced about 20 times throughout the run. Reed mentions never sending Matt to the Raft in the second arc, a plot point which has, since, been nearly forgotten, the Skrulls show up facing the Sentry in a flashback... those are just off the top of my head.

The point is, we're 2 issues into the main series, and we're seeing a lot of revelations in New and Mighty Avengers. Now, you can say all that you want that Bendis is retconning, but the simple fact of the matter is, there's less proof to support your claim than there is to support mine. All you've said is "I think it hasn't been planned, and it doesn't read that way to me, so you're wrong."

 

[RockSP]

Reed mentions never sending Matt to the Raft in the second arc, a plot point which has, since, been nearly forgotten,

What's that got to do with the skrulls?

 

[Marcdachamp]

What's that got to do with the skrulls?

That would seem to imply that impostors were around even back then.

 

[RockSP]

What would they gain by sending Murdock to the raft to talk to The Sentry, though?

 

[Marcdachamp]

What would they gain by sending Murdock to the raft to talk to The Sentry, though?

It looks like the Skrulls organized the breakout, and some of the dead inmates may actually be sleeper Skrulls. We know that the Skrulls have had their eyes on The Sentry, perhaps they released him in order to have an easier time getting him to lose it and kill himself? Right now, it's all conjecture, but we know a Skrull was impersonating both Murdock and Elektra. Combine this with the fact that Reed had no idea what Tony was talking about and we've got ourselves a lead.

 

[Darthphere]

So Jigsaw is a skrull and that's how he broke Spider-Man's arm!

YAY!

 

[TheCorpulent1]

Eh, at least it provides some in-universe explanation for a real world ****-up.

 

[Doc Destruction]

That kind of retcon is actually one that I don't mind.

I'd accept that.

 

[BrianWilly]

The Kree/Skrull War is referenced about 20 times throughout the run.

It really wasn't.

Reed mentions never sending Matt to the Raft in the second arc, a plot point which has, since, been nearly forgotten,

What does this have to do with Skrulls? All this shows was that something strange was going on. Bendis could have come up with any sort of explanation for this "something strange" in the interim where that issue was published, what about this makes you think that he planning to use Skrulls all along? Please, I'd honestly love to know how you're justifying this.

the Skrulls show up facing the Sentry in a flashback... those are just off the top of my head.

What, the issue that came out last week? Are you even understanding how adding flashbacks to his books in the present do not actually show that he's been planning it a long time ago?

The point is, we're 2 issues into the main series, and we're seeing a lot of revelations in New and Mighty Avengers.

Right, revelations that he's just now introducing in the present. Are you even understanding how adding flashbacks to his books in the present do not actually show that he's been planning it a long time ago?

It looks like the Skrulls organized the breakout, and some of the dead inmates may actually be sleeper Skrulls. We know that the Skrulls have had their eyes on The Sentry, perhaps they released him in order to have an easier time getting him to lose it and kill himself? Right now, it's all conjecture, but we know a Skrull was impersonating both Murdock and Elektra.

Sigh. Everything about this has been revealed in the past year. Nothing about this was ever stated in any time before that. Therefore, it does not show or even suggest in any way that Bendis has been planning anything before that the past year.

Now, you can say all that you want that Bendis is retconning, but the simple fact of the matter is, there's less proof to support your claim than there is to support mine.

No, actually, there's more. Look up "burden of proof" sometime, which is incumbent on the person making the positive claims, the affirmative team, the side saying that something exists when the a priori assumption is that it doesn't. Meaning you. All you need to do is to come up with a single piece of evidence to prove that Bendis did plan on using Skrulls all this time and my entire position falls to pieces, and yet you haven't been able to do that. Everything you've been saying, in your own words, has been "conjecture." All I have to do is to defend the facts as we each and every one of us have known them before your newer, positive claims. Fact: nothing before NA: Illuminati #1 suggested a Skrull invasion. Thus, to assume that Bendis has been planning a Skrull invasion from any time before then is fallacious.

Heck, need I remind you yet again that the stories you're hinging your position on haven't even happened yet? Your argument isn't even "I think this is what's going on," your argument is "I think this will be what's going on"!

All you've said is "I think it hasn't been planned, and it doesn't read that way to me, so you're wrong."

Wow, which conversation have you been following? I've actually said a lot more than that, but hey you're totally welcome to willfully ignore anything that doesn't support your position, it's not like I haven't seen it often here before. vv

 

[fifthfiend]

I'm pretty sure Robert's Rules of Arguing on the Internet states that once somebody starts demanding that you prove a negative you're permitted to not care anymore.

 

[Darthphere]

I'm pretty sure Robert's Rules of Arguing on the Internet states that once somebody starts demanding that you prove a negative you're permitted to not care anymore.

John Gray Roberts is a genius.

 

[Marcdachamp]

It really wasn't.

What does this have to do with Skrulls? All this shows was that something strange was going on. Bendis could have come up with any sort of explanation for this "something strange" in the interim where that issue was published, what about this makes you think that he planning to use Skrulls all along? Please, I'd honestly love to know how you're justifying this.

What, the issue that came out last week? Are you even understanding how adding flashbacks to his books in the present do not actually show that he's been planning it a long time ago?

Right, revelations that he's just now introducing in the present. Are you even understanding how adding flashbacks to his books in the present do not actually show that he's been planning it a long time ago?

Sigh. Everything about this has been revealed in the past year. Nothing about this was ever stated in any time before that. Therefore, it does not show or even suggest in any way that Bendis has been planning anything before that the past year.

No, actually, there's more. Look up "burden of proof" sometime, which is incumbent on the person making the positive claims, the affirmative team, the side saying that something exists when the a priori assumption is that it doesn't. Meaning you. All you need to do is to come up with a single piece of evidence to prove that Bendis did plan on using Skrulls all this time and my entire position falls to pieces, and yet you haven't been able to do that. Everything you've been saying, in your own words, has been "conjecture." All I have to do is to defend the facts as we each and every one of us have known them before your newer, positive claims. Fact: nothing before NA: Illuminati #1 suggested a Skrull invasion. Thus, to assume that Bendis has been planning a Skrull invasion from any time before then is fallacious.

Heck, need I remind you yet again that the stories you're hinging your position on haven't even happened yet? Your argument isn't even "I think this is what's going on," your argument is "I think this will be what's going on"!

Wow, which conversation have you been following? I've actually said a lot more than that, but hey you're totally welcome to willfully ignore anything that doesn't support your position, it's not like I haven't seen it often here before. vv

The Skrulls show up in the first Sentry arc, actually. Issue 8. I didn't refer to the Mighty Avengers arc.

The Kree/Skrull War is referred to in issues 12, 14 and 18. I found that after about 10 minutes of looking, but there are more examples. You can look for yourself. Also, in 18, Skrull Jarvis is the one telling the story about the Kree/Skrull War.

A possible alien invasion is also mentioned in issues 11 and 14.

Reed says that he never sent Matt to the Raft and a Daredevil Skrull shows up later on in the run. That doesn't seem at all to connect to you?

You don't wanna buy it? Fine, okay, cool, but the fact of the matter is that there are references right there, whether you want to believe it or not.