Chaos War

[Judge Holden]

Reread thread, dude. The villain is Mikaboshi, a Japanese god that played a role in the "Sacred Invasion" arc, a bit over a year ago. Basically, Hercules was tasked with leading a team of gods from various Earthly pantheons into space to battle the primary gods of the Skrulls, as a way to repel the Secret Invasion. Mikaboshi (who was responsible for the Greek gods from being driven out of Olympus) was among them, and when they were fighting the Skrull gods and the deities from the pantheons of all the alien worlds they'd conquered, he faked his death, then took over all the alien gods after Hercules and his crew left.

Mikaboshi is awesome. I loved the Ares mini from a few years back when he kidnapped Phobos.

 

[taskmaster]

Man, I'm loving all of these smaller cross-overs, I'm really excited for this and Shadowland.

 

[Dread]

I might be more interested in this than SHADOWLAND, if only because there will be less to buy. SHADOWLAND has a gazillion mini's and one-shots and it's stretching from DAREDEVIL, a book I haven't read in years.

 

[runawayboulder]

I'm skipping all the excess crap with Shadowland. I need to ease up for a bit after Second Coming and SIEGE.

 

[Tron Bonne]

I'm all for seeing more God Squad, the arc featuring them in the ongoing was one of my favorites.

 

[SouLeSS]

Reread thread, dude. The villain is Mikaboshi, a Japanese god that played a role in the "Sacred Invasion" arc, a bit over a year ago. Basically, Hercules was tasked with leading a team of gods from various Earthly pantheons into space to battle the primary gods of the Skrulls, as a way to repel the Secret Invasion. Mikaboshi (who was responsible for the Greek gods from being driven out of Olympus) was among them, and when they were fighting the Skrull gods and the deities from the pantheons of all the alien worlds they'd conquered, he faked his death, then took over all the alien gods after Hercules and his crew left.

The hell they calling it Chaos War when the godling of Chaos isn't even a part of it then?

He's gonna make a big comeback whenever he does though, and it will be amazing.

 

[TheCorpulent1]

Mikaboshi represents chaos in Japanese mythology.

 

[bored]

The hell they calling it Chaos War when the godling of Chaos isn't even a part of it then?

He's gonna make a big comeback whenever he does though, and it will be amazing.

Aside from what Corpy mentioned, they can use the word "Chaos" without a certain character being involved.

 

[Dread]

I may be reading something that wasn't intended at all, but it is kind of funny that the we have some high profile Western gods facing down against the worst threat of the cosmos, and it proves to be a Japanese God that is amassing hordes of followers. As is, sort of like how Western Comics have battled a long, seemingly endless battle for the hearts and minds of anyone under 30 against Japanese Manga & Anime, which while in a decline aren't going away?

At any rate, just something that crossed my mind. At any rate, more Herc is good, and I'll be all aboard this mini.

Sadly, PRINCE OF POWER #1's debut sold very poorly, so I hope this garners more attention.

 

[TheCorpulent1]

I don't really see that subtext, but I don't think American comics are "battling" manga in the first place. They each have their audiences--which overlap to a large degree, yes, but neither is really going away or actively trying to "steal" fans from the other, as far as I've seen. If anything, American comics have embraced manga art styles and manga has embraced a lot of American characters, so they're in an odd sort of symbiosis.

 

[Dread]

I doubt it. I mean, yes, in terms of art styles and story telling, maybe. On a professional level there is some symbiosis since the 80's. But sales wise? I don't see much crossover. Older comic readers who are Western comic consumers may read some manga, but hardcore 20 and under manga readers usually are too snobbish for any Western comic that isn't SCOTT PILGRIM. At least in New York, from what I've seen.

Although I think the scourge of illegally downloading manga (and anime) is effecting manga in America a lot worse than it is effecting Western comics. But that could be wrong.

 

[TheCorpulent1]

Eh, at the end of the day, I don't really care as long as American comics continue being published.

 

[Dread]

Me too, but the sheer incompetence and inability for the Big Two to be able to gain and retain new readers who are under 21 whose parents aren't or weren't comic readers themselves is a dilemma that has to effect them eventually. The Big Two rely SO much on the children of comic readers for generational reading that I genuinely feel it would be in their best interests to set up a dating website to ensure that all their readers breed (or to at least up the odds).

 

[TheCorpulent1]

Interview with Pak and Van Lente about Chaos War and Prince of Power

Amadeus will be reunited with his best friend as "Chaos War" begins, but Hercules might not be the same God Amadeus remembers. He'll be a changed deity with a new title appropriate to the current era of the Marvel Universe, the God of Heroes.

"Galactus is sort of a reserve member of the God Squad. He's definitely there, though, and the Surfer is his herald and speaks for him," Van Lente explained. "They're brought together by a common threat and they don't necessarily all get along, particularly because there is a member of the new God Squad that has been left off the revealed roster. All of the God Squad members are divine, or at least partially divine, but one of them is rather, shall I say, diabolical. He shows up in 'Chaos War' #2."

"In the 'Ares' miniseries from several years ago, Mikaboshi single-handedly almost killed off all of the Olympian Gods, and since 'Sacred Invasion,' he's gorged himself on this army of slave gods. So now he's very close to being what he was beforehand, which was the Chaos and the Void that existed before existence," Van Lente elaborated. 'The Bible' talks about things being without form and void. Ovid in 'Metamorphoses' talks about that time as just Chaos. That's where the name Chaos King comes from. So Mikaboshi, the Chaos King, is a greater threat than Thanos, who simply wanted to kill everything in existence. He's a greater threat than Galactus, who wants to eat planets. Mikaboshi literally wants to annihilate all of existence and then become the only thing in the universe, which is what Amatsu-Mikaboshi is in Japanese mythology. He's what there was before there was anything.

I'm so excited for this. Love, love, LOVE the "god of heroes" idea for Herc. I don't know about the Surfer being "divine," as Van Lente says, but I'll give him a pass as something of a "space god," much like the Eternals. That secret member is so totally Mephisto, too, which is awesome. Mephisto's f***ed with pretty much everyone on the new God Squad, so he should bring a lot of interesting conflict to the table.

Pham's art looks different. Sketchier but also better than his Mighty Avengers art. I like it.

 

[Dread]

Pham's art looks better if he has more lead in time, and if a good inker does his work. When he is in a rush or inks his own stuff, it isn't as hot.

I agree, it is kind of weird to consider Silver Surfer and Galactus as "gods", but whatever. Pak obviously likes him since he keeps including him in stuff.

Here is something I don't get about Marvel's promotion department. They're shameless about sticking a popular franchise title onto so many books for the most dubious of reasons. They slap a HEROIC AGE label on a comic these days so long as it includes anyone who isn't in the X-MEN. They slap X-MEN on a title so long as it includes anyone who is related to the X-MEN. They slap AVENGERS on the title if anyone was even vaguely connected to them. I'm not saying it is wise, as all have lead to some retailer burnout. But the point is that they can help some lower selling stuff, at least for that first issue.

I mean, PRINCE OF POWER became HEROIC AGE: PRINCE OF POWER. It didn't work one whit for sales, but at least they tried.

So, why is this not AVENGERS: CHAOS WAR? I mean, Hercules, Thor, Sersi, and technically Cho were all Avengers. As far as shameless milking of a franchise's title, this isn't so bad. Hell, even Banner/Hulk was a founding Avenger. Do I think retailers would be fooled? Maybe not. But if you're going to peddle out those hot names as easily as a $2 ****e for everything else, why not this?

 

[TheCorpulent1]

Well, they're making it a big event and having various other comics tie into it. I would be pretty surprised if at least one of the Avengers titles weren't tying in. Thor too, most likely, and that's still a fairly big seller. Siege wasn't called Avengers: Siege, even though that was certainly an Avengers-centric event. I think we'll be looking to see Chaos War before the colons rather than after them, as in Chaos War: Thor or Chaos War: Avengers. I wouldn't worry about sales (but of course if you didn't worry about sales, you wouldn't be our Dready-poo ).

 

[bored]

"God of Power". Badass. And I agree, that extra member is totally Mephisto. I wonder if Mikaboshi has a dying aunt he needs saved

 

[Dread]

SIEGE was a line wide crossover promoted as ungodly important and written by Bendis. They could have called it FANBOYS SUCK IT and it would have done well. Granted, while it held up well over the course of all 4 issues, it was the lowest selling event in quite a while, selling less than FINAL CRISIS.

I worry about sales because they are important to the health of a franchise or a series. No series was ever canceled for selling too well, regardless of it being utter garbage. In fact writers have cemented entire careers about writing trash that sold well. But a great series that sells 20k max? Deader than Deadman. PRINCE OF POWER has sold ungodly low, and INCREDIBLE HERCULES has always been more of a cult hit rather than a big seller, at least after the first year.

PRINCE OF POWER has a caveat; it is starring Cho exclusively, and he sells worse alone than Hercules. That said, IH still was hovering around the Top 90 before the various mini's started.

Every time I go to a shop or even a convention, I hear nothing except how awesome Pak & Van Lente are in this series. But where are the 85k sales? They go to an issue of NEW AVENGERS in which the cast sits on a couch, talking in Yiddish about toilet seats and ninjas, and how important talking about things is, before discussing it further, before having a committee to explore discussing something that needs to be talked about.

CHAOS WAR is what looks to be the end of the series, and is the boldest chance to relaunch the series so it actually sells like it deserves. I'd like it to succeed. Marvel's actually displayed some patience for some low selling franchises, like ATLAS, but that has to eventually end.

 

[TheCorpulent1]

This is the final part of Pak and Van Lente's initial outline for Herc and Cho, I believe, and I very much doubt they'd just stop publishing the mini-series halfway through due to low sales--or anything else, for that matter. So, in a very real sense, sales literally don't matter for this. This is the endgame. Pak and Van Lente already managed to cobble together enough interest and monetary support from readers to get to this point. Anything after this is new stuff that they're coming up with on the fly, not part of the initial vision for iHerc. I'd love for Herc and Cho to continue in some format, but if they don't, no big deal. They've reached the natural end of the creators' initial plan. They made it in spite of the odds against new characters (Cho) and B-listers (Herc), and it looks f***ing badass, to boot. Just relax and enjoy it.

 

[Dread]

If it doesn't sell well, nothing that happens will matter or be embellished in any other titles. You think if that Knauf Mandarin story sold 500,000 copies, it would have been so easily dismissed? I'd like whatever happens in CHAOS WAR to last.

Besides, if it does well, Marvel may take more chances with this creative team. Even, heaven forbid, give someone else besides Millar or Bendis a shot at a line wide event for a change. It could really open doors if it sells well. It's a shame their run hasn't sold any better until now, I'd love for it to sell well just this once.

Besides, if the WONDER WOMAN news showed us anything, is that when fans of a franchise relax, that is when they're about to get ****ed the most. Vigilance is key, man.

 

[TheCorpulent1]

If Hercules ever gets big enough to warrant as huge a revamp as Wonder Woman's getting, he'll automatically be big enough that such a revamp inevitably won't stick and things will eventually go back to normal, just as they will with Wonder Woman sooner or later. My long-term cynicism > your long-term cynicism.

 

[TheCorpulent1]

Advance Preview of Chaos War #1

 

[fifthfiend]

If Hercules ever gets big enough to warrant as huge a revamp as Wonder Woman's getting, he'll automatically be big enough that such a revamp inevitably won't stick and things will eventually go back to normal, just as they will with Wonder Woman sooner or later. My long-term cynicism > your long-term cynicism.

He won't get "revamped", he'll just show up in a Millar / Bendis comic with a completely different, ****** personality and set of character relationships, which will stick, and all this other, good **** will be forgotten.

 

[Dread]

That's quite a preview for CHAOS WAR. I can see why Marvel wants to make a big deal of it. Herc can belt out quite a speech when he's full of omnipotence.

 

[fifthfiend]

Apparently he's the God of Heroes now or somesuch?

Man, **** yes