Character development and personalities

[sf2]

This...

Perhaps ultimately in MoS, Superman will come to see the entire Earth as his 'extended' family and that is the drive/motivation he needs to protect it.

wow. bingo. if they manage to translate this into the movie, it would be a great hit!

 

[El Payaso]

I think you nailed it. The Kent's are so important to who he is, not to mention the weight of the legacy of his birth parents. Without family, he's wouldn't be the man he became. It's the crux of his existence.

 

[Boy Scout]

Copied and pasted from another forum I post at, here is how I would handle Clark Kent.

Instead of being a bumbling nerd or easily forgettable, I think Clark should be the strong, silent type, who is very dedicated to his work. Most of his time should be spent at his desk working on articles. He is much too busy for idle chit-chat.

Social interactions with his co-workers should be kept to a minimum, but when he does stick around for a chat around the water cooler, he should be polite and warm (to an extent), but not above [abruptly, almost rudely] excusing himself to go chase down a new lead [or to stop Brainiac from destroying the city].

And no one would suspect that he's Superman because they would never be around him long enough to get a feel of his personality. All they would know about him is that he's a damn good reporter who tells the occassional joke every once in a while. He's not really the odd man out in the office, but he very rarely ever attends office parties or other social gatherings. It's more of a case of everyone wanting to be his friend, but he doesn't let them, because he's always so busy. [So, really, no one really knows Clark Kent at all.]

This is the way I would portray Clark Kent if I were writing MOS. It's an effective way, I think, of establishing Clark as a real person, but also quite separate from Superman.

 

[Panthro]

I like the way you think, Boy_Scout.

 

[KRIM]

My issue with Clark existing outside the social circle, is that it in fact does shape opinions on him regardless. People are defined both by the decisions they make, and those they choose not to. By passively isolating himself, it would absolutely draw attention. Not in a highly suspicious manner, but certainly within the lines of "there is US, and then there is HIM".

I think it's time to implement a more natural and effective form of camouflage. As the saying goes, "The best place to hide an elephant is in a herd of elephants." Make Clark the everyman, who follows typical social norms and whose personality is neither dull nor too distinct. That way he truly is part of the crowd.

 

[Nevaratoiel]

Since we're copying what's been said in another topic, I'll go ahead too.

I have a colleague at the newspaper I work for who is absolutely how I'd imagine Clark Kent to be (glasses and all).

He can be a bit airheaded/doofy - just enough that he comes across completely harmless/clueless and you often find yourself using the phrase -'oh what are you like?'

He acts a bit naïve, goes out of his way to help people and his good nature is sometimes taken advantage of.

But he's got a lot of pride in his work and he is incredibly confident in his ability to do it - as is everyone else.

Both in and out of work, he's a good humoured, popular person and very involved in the community - the kind of guy who goes over to visit his next door neighbour ever now and then just because she's old and lonely.

He's not a saint or old fashioned. He goes drinking with the boys and he doesn't say 'golly' all the time.

Just a real life nice guy.

Hmmm... Now that I think of it, I really do like the guy

Yeah, the type of character would be good for Clark's character. I mean, the "golly" just doesn't fit in this day and age, so that's unnecessary, but that's the vibe I got from Clark's character in Superman Returns. That is the kind of character I'd like to see. Reeve's Clark could be a bit too wimpy at times. I did like, I think at the end of Superman III or IV where Clark comes back after being sick and he's in the crowd with Lois and Jimmy, where he has to interview people, and then he forgot his recorder. The way Christopher Reeve does that scene is just classic.

Having said that, I do like your interpretation of the character too Boy Scout. In my opinion, it's just that Clark was already portrayed the way he is. To change that would be too much. At least for me.

 

[I SEE SPIDEY]

My issue with Clark existing outside the social circle, is that it in fact does shape opinions on him regardless. People are defined both by the decisions they make, and those they choose not to. By passively isolating himself, it would absolutely draw attention. Not in a highly suspicious manner, but certainly within the lines of "there is US, and then there is HIM".

I think it's time to implement a more natural and effective form of camouflage. As the saying goes, "The best place to hide an elephant is in a herd of elephants." Make Clark the everyman, who follows typical social norms and whose personality is neither dull nor too distinct. That way he truly is part of the crowd.

Yeah, I think that Metropolis Clark should just be an unassuming every man.

 

[Boy Scout]

I like the way you think, Boy_Scout.

Thanks.

My issue with Clark existing outside the social circle, is that it in fact does shape opinions on him regardless. People are defined both by the decisions they make, and those they choose not to. By passively isolating himself, it would absolutely draw attention. Not in a highly suspicious manner, but certainly within the lines of "there is US, and then there is HIM".

As long as they don't start suspecting that he's Superman, I don't think it matters. But that's JMO.

I think it's time to implement a more natural and effective form of camouflage. As the saying goes, "The best place to hide an elephant is in a herd of elephants." Make Clark the everyman, who follows typical social norms and whose personality is neither dull nor too distinct. That way he truly is part of the crowd.

I wouldn't have a problem with that at all.

Having said that, I do like your interpretation of the character too Boy Scout. In my opinion, it's just that Clark was already portrayed the way he is. To change that would be too much. At least for me.

No worries, I understand where you're coming from.

 

[hopefuldreamer]

My issue with Clark existing outside the social circle, is that it in fact does shape opinions on him regardless. People are defined both by the decisions they make, and those they choose not to. By passively isolating himself, it would absolutely draw attention. Not in a highly suspicious manner, but certainly within the lines of "there is US, and then there is HIM".

I think it's time to implement a more natural and effective form of camouflage. As the saying goes, "The best place to hide an elephant is in a herd of elephants." Make Clark the everyman, who follows typical social norms and whose personality is neither dull nor too distinct. That way he truly is part of the crowd.

Completely agree with that.

I think if Clark is too quite, he becomes mysterious. People start to wonder about him.

And what's more believable; that guy that no one knows much about, who's really secretive and dissapears all the time is Superman - or that their friend and co worker who they have a laugh and a joke with, who everyone knows as the guy who grew up on a farm in Kansas and is a bit 'clueless' and harmless, is Superman?

 

[Boy Scout]

Completely agree with that.

I think if Clark is too quite, he becomes mysterious. People start to wonder about him.

To the extent that they start to suspect he might be an alien who shoots fire from his eyes? Probably not.

And what's more believable; that guy that no one knows much about, who's really secretive and dissapears all the time

Clark has a good excuse to be away from the bullpen all the time: he's doing his job. A job he's pretty good at. Obviously, he can't always be MIA, but I find it hard to believe that anyone would get overly suspicious just because they don't see Clark hanging around all the time. Surely there are people in real life who are so dedicated to what they do that it sometimes (emphasis on sometimes) gets in the way of their social life?

or that their friend and co worker who they have a laugh and a joke with, who everyone knows as the guy who grew up on a farm in Kansas and is a bit 'clueless' and harmless, is Superman?

I never implied that Clark wouldn't eventually get close to anyone. Quite the contrary. He should be close to Lois and Jimmy and Perry. He should be friendly enough with his other co-workers as well. But the majority of the Planet staff shouldn't know too much about CK other than the fact that he's nice, funny, and a damn good reporter.

But that's only one way to do it. I'm very much open to other interpretations.

 

[KRIM]

To the extent that they start to suspect he might be an alien who shoots fire from his eyes? Probably not.

On the point of "as long as they don't start suspecting him, it's valid", isn't that free reign for... anything? There isn't a single existing personality that makes you wonder "hm, this one is pretty incredible. I wouldn't be surprised if they were an alien, had capability of flight, and possess the strength of a god".

Clark has a good excuse to be away from the bullpen all the time: he's doing his job. A job he's pretty good at. Obviously, he can't always be MIA, but I find it hard to believe that anyone would get overly suspicious just because they don't see Clark hanging around all the time. Surely there are people in real life who are so dedicated to what they do that it sometimes (emphasis on sometimes) gets in the way of their social life?

It's not so much attracting suspicion as a result of personality. As I indicated above, there is no such thing as garnering gossip akin to superhuman comparisons. It just doesn't happen. Short of pulling ridiculous supernatural feats during parties, anyone can interact however they may please without being accused as Superman.

It's a matter of entertaining the notion of "so if Superman was hiding amongst us, who would it likely be?" That's the type of talk I can imagine naturally growing into a conversation, in a world where Superman exists. It is at that point people start making mental lists of people they are around, and types they would likely pinpoint as suspicious. The meek, silent, distant, and/or highly inconspicuous individuals are ostensibly the types socially marked as those of hidden agendas.

 

[Boy Scout]

On the point of "as long as they don't start suspecting him, it's valid", isn't that free reign for... anything?

In the context of Clark being so "quiet" and "mysterious" that people start wondering about him (apparently to the extent that they begin to suspect he's Superman), I don't think what I said implied that at all.

It's not so much attracting suspicion as a result of personality. As I indicated above, there is no such thing as garnering gossip akin to superhuman comparisons. It just doesn't happen. Short of pulling ridiculous supernatural feats during parties, anyone can interact however they may please without being accused as Superman.

Very true.

It's a matter of entertaining the notion of "so if Superman was hiding amongst us, who would it likely be?" That's the type of talk I can imagine naturally growing into a conversation, in a world where Superman exists. It is at that point people start making mental lists of people they are around, and types they would likely pinpoint as suspicious. The meek, silent, distant, and/or highly inconspicuous individuals are ostensibly the types socially marked as those of hidden agendas.

I'm sure they are. But (and this is probably my fault) I still don't see the problem. Let's just assume that Clark Kent is someone who is fairly well-known for being a little too good at his job. In fact...he's so good that his social life suffers a little because of it. Considering Clark's line of work...why would that arouse suspicion? Of any sort? If anything, it would be viewed as normal.

Clark is a reporter. It's his job to get out of the bullpen and expose the truth. I don't see why anyone would even bat an eye at him being consistently missing for extended periods, especially if his stories are just as frequently published and praised as Lois Lane's.

"Damn. No wonder Kent's been gone for so long. Look at this piece about Suicide Slums! He must have really done his homework! Look at these in-depth interviews!"

Forgive the terrible dialogue.

Look...I'm not saying that Clark should be a social outcast. He should definitely interact with his co-workers. He simply can't be absent all the time. He should have friends/acquaintances. He should go out for a drink with the guys every once in a while. But it shouldn't be a secret that work is a top priority for him, and because of that, most people simply don't get the opportunity to get to know Clark as much as they might like to. But they know enough to know that he's certainly not Superman.

 

[KRIM]

I'm sure they are. But (and this is probably my fault) I still don't see the problem. Let's just assume that Clark Kent is someone who is fairly well-known for being a little too good at his job. In fact...he's so good that his social life suffers a little because of it. Considering Clark's line of work...why would that arouse suspicion? Of any sort? If anything, it would be viewed as normal.

Clark is a reporter. It's his job to get out of the bullpen and expose the truth. I don't see why anyone would even bat an eye at him being consistently missing for extended periods, especially if his stories are just as frequently published and praised as Lois Lane's.

"Damn. No wonder Kent's been gone for so long. Look at this piece about Suicide Slums! He must have really done his homework!"

That's not the question being asked. You are viewing it in the opposite direction. The line of inquiry starts with suspicion, sparked by inquiry or intrigue in Superman possibly having another identity. That's when the usual suspects come into play and the finger-pointing begins.

I'm not saying that Clark should be a social outcast. He should definitely interact with his co-workers. He simply can't be absent all the time. He should have friends/acquaintances. He should go out for a drink with the guys every once in a while. But it shouldn't be a secret that work is a top priority for him, and because of that, most people simply don't get the opportunity to get to know Clark as much as they might like to. But they know enough to know that he's certainly not Superman.

That's all well and good, but again you're looking at it from a different position. The reason why I would place the discussion in Superman's identity, in a non-conventional way, is that unlike most superheroes Superman doesn't wear a mask. A man that freely displays himself to the public is to be taken at face value. Compared to mask vigilantes, it is an automatic presumption they are not dressed up like that at all times. Thus, the mind wanders into assumptions of dual identities. Suspicion is aroused from a mask.

With Supes, I think it would have to come from a different perspective. When there are no immediate signs of disingenuous behavior, how does conversation form around the concept of a Superman that also lives like an average human? In such scenarios, I think it would spring from the fascination with such an other-worldly being. His very existence being so unlike us, the normal folk begin conjuring up ideas of what he is like and how he lives. Out of that, it wouldn't be unfeasible to cover the ground of daily routines. Questions will arise and no doubt it would soon be pondered, "what if Superman is off somewhere pretending to be one of us, in his downtime?".

So you see, you don't look to the average citizen for a possible connection to Supes. Whatever abnormal or quirky behavior being observed are simply written off as idiosyncrasies that you always encounter from person to person. Instead you look it from the top-down, on the presumption that Supes perhaps desires a normal life. From that, a line of suspicion is formed.

The question isn't "is Clark really Superman?", it's "can Superman be Clark?".

 

[manofsteel4life]

The thing that helps the disguise is that noone would think superman would need a disguise....they would think he's superman 24,7

 

[Boy Scout]

That's not the question being asked. You are viewing it in the opposite direction. The line of inquiry starts with suspicion, sparked by inquiry or intrigue in Superman possibly having another identity. That's when the usual suspects come into play and the finger-pointing begins.

I suspected this was what you were getting at, but I wasn't entirely sure. Now that we're on the same page, I have to ask...why in the world would anyone suspect that Superman has a secret identity in the first place?

...With Supes, I think it would have to come from a different perspective. When there are no immediate signs of disingenuous behavior, how does conversation form around the concept of a Superman that also lives like an average human? In such scenarios, I think it would spring from the fascination with such an other-worldly being. His very existence being so unlike us, the normal folk begin conjuring up ideas of what he is like and how he lives. Out of that, it wouldn't be unfeasible to cover the ground of daily routines. Questions will arise and no doubt it would soon be pondered, "what if Superman is off somewhere pretending to be one of us, in his downtime?".

Disregard that first question.

Yeah, I could see that happening. But I'm not convinced that such a thing would ever be seriously considered or investigated by anyone of importance.

So you see, you don't look to the average citizen for a possible connection to Supes. Whatever abnormal or quirky behavior being observed are simply written off as idiosyncrasies that you always encounter from person to person. Instead you look it from the top-down, on the presumption that Supes perhaps desires a normal life. From that, a line of suspicion is formed.

The question isn't "is Clark really Superman?", it's "can Superman be Clark?".

Dude...I can't say I disagree with anything you've said up to now. And I don't think you're disagreeing with me either. What we've really been discussing is personal preference. I think we'll both be happy if we get a Kent who is a real, normal, good person who doesn't draw too much negative attention to himself and is taken seriously.

 

[Nevaratoiel]

Clark has a good excuse to be away from the bullpen all the time: he's doing his job. A job he's pretty good at. Obviously, he can't always be MIA, but I find it hard to believe that anyone would get overly suspicious just because they don't see Clark hanging around all the time. Surely there are people in real life who are so dedicated to what they do that it sometimes (emphasis on sometimes) gets in the way of their social life?

I never implied that Clark wouldn't eventually get close to anyone. Quite the contrary. He should be close to Lois and Jimmy and Perry. He should be friendly enough with his other co-workers as well. But the majority of the Planet staff shouldn't know too much about CK other than the fact that he's nice, funny, and a damn good reporter.

But that's only one way to do it. I'm very much open to other interpretations.

Well, I think his job is a big thing. He's a journalist. He's supposed to be 'running around' getting stories and all that. That's what makes it interesting. I'm pretty sure he has to come up with some lame excuses or sometimes is just plain MIA.

In my opinion, and I may have voiced it clearly or unclearly before, he's this really nice guy, a little bit clumsy and clueless, but doing his job well and getting along with most people around him. People know him, and they know he's there, or that he's around, but they never really be bothered with it. He just be visible invisible, if that makes any sense.

Well, I had more to say in my mind, but we have some visitors...

 

[Dr.]

In my opinion, and I may have voiced it clearly or unclearly before, he's this really nice guy, a little bit clumsy and clueless, but doing his job well and getting along with most people around him. People know him, and they know he's there, or that he's around, but they never really be bothered with it. He just be visible invisible, if that makes any sense.

Clark-in-glasses, hiding in plain sight as an innocuous background figure at the DP, is reasonably plausible. Traditionally, though, Clark isn’t a background figure; he’s in the thick of it with Perry, Jimmy and Lois. And in Lois’s case, there’s the whole sexual tension/flirtation business. So when Supes – likewise – interacts with Perry, Jimmy and (especially) Lois, the plausible nature of the subterfuge is pretty much out the window.

 

[Boy Scout]

Well, I think his job is a big thing. He's a journalist. He's supposed to be 'running around' getting stories and all that.

Exactly.

That's what makes it interesting. I'm pretty sure he has to come up with some lame excuses or sometimes is just plain MIA.

Yep. And let's be honest: it doesn't matter how much of a workaholic Clark is, his excuse can't always be, "I was working!"

In my opinion, and I may have voiced it clearly or unclearly before, he's this really nice guy, a little bit clumsy and clueless, but doing his job well and getting along with most people around him. People know him, and they know he's there, or that he's around, but they never really be bothered with it. He just be visible invisible, if that makes any sense.

That's a perfectly valid way to do it. It's just not my preference. And that's fine, because as long as the Kent character is taken seriously treated with respect, I'll be satisfied.


EDIT: As for Superman...I want to see him be a little more agressive and reactive when it comes to fighting crime. I want him to have the enthusiasm and aggresiveness and reactivity that I've seen him possess in the current Action Comics titles, but I also want him to have the maturity and good judgement and old-fashioned charm that I've always associated with Superman.

 

[hopefuldreamer]

I never implied that Clark wouldn't eventually get close to anyone. Quite the contrary. He should be close to Lois and Jimmy and Perry. He should be friendly enough with his other co-workers as well. But the majority of the Planet staff shouldn't know too much about CK other than the fact that he's nice, funny, and a damn good reporter.

But that's only one way to do it. I'm very much open to other interpretations.

I just think the best way to keep a secret like that is to act like you don't have any.

If his life is an open book, and everyone knows he grew up in Smallville, what his favourite tv show is etc, then he doesn't cross their mind as someone who might actually be leading a double life as a superhero.

Most people don't think Superman grew up on earth. So their not looking at people with an evidential childhood.

Their looking for someone who is quiet and secretive. Someome who is a bit of a question mark.

And that seems to be what your suggesting he be like. Which I just don't think is a good disguise.

 

[Rusty Mcgoofy]

Most people don't think Superman grew up on earth. So their not looking at people with an evidential childhood.

Exactly. We, the audience, are in on it. But we have to look at it from the perspective of the characters in the movie. Put ourselfs to that frame. If Superman existed in our world and we knew he was an alien you would never ever think your co-worker, the mild mannered polite guy from Kansas is that super powered alien. Even if he kind of resembles him. So what lot's of people resemble one another. But that thought would never cross most people's mind. Except for Lois Lane, but thats another topic now. t:

And thats why I disslike Chris Reeve's version of CK so much. They took it to the extreme when that wasent necessary. Just glasses, which not only make you appear different and change the shape of your face but also (in some cases) the tone of your eyes, haircut and a more slouchy stance which can make someone appear a bit shorter is enough for 99.9% to never even notice that Clark Kent guy resembles Superman. Or even think about it. The thought in itself, for the characters in that universe, would be nonsense.

Thats why I dont really understand why so many people are frowning upon the simple glasses disguise. Because 1. it's not just the glasses its the whole package and 2. dont look at it from your viewpoint you know everything.

 

[hopefuldreamer]

Agreed 100%

I don't get why people don't see how the disguise works either.

 

[Boy Scout]

I just think the best way to keep a secret like that is to act like you don't have any.

Absolutely. But nothing I've said about my interpretation of the character up to this point suggests that I would have him act like he's keeping secrets from anybody. Just because someone's busy all the time doesn't mean they're keeping secrets. It means they're doing their job.

I don't know. Maybe it's just me, but I don't see why anyone would be suspicious of a reporter who is constantly out there doing his job, especially when they constantly see evidence of his hard work everyday in the morning edition of the newspaper they all work for.

Their looking for someone who is quiet and secretive. Someome who is a bit of a question mark.

I've never suggested that he should be any of those things. My interpretation of the character is someone who is very passionate about what he does, and because he's so passionate about it, it sometimes interferes with his social life. Sometimes. Not all the time.

More than once I've said he would develop friendships with the people around him. I've said that he would go out for drinks with the guys every once in a while. Just because Clark isn't the life of the party doesn't mean he isn't at the party.

Granted...I did say that Clark would rarely attend social gatherings earlier. But on closer examination, I think that would make Clark out to be a little more anti-social than I would want him, so instead, I say that Clark would be happy to go to parties and such...so long as it doesn't interfere with work.

And that seems to be what your suggesting he be like.

Not at all.

 

[hopefuldreamer]

Absolutely. But nothing I've said about Clark's behavior suggests that he would act like he's keeping anything from any.


Which isn't my Clark at all.


Nope.

Huh... i'm a bit confused about what you are suggesting he be like then. From what you said here:

Instead of being a bumbling nerd or easily forgettable, I think Clark should be the strong, silent type, who is very dedicated to his work. Most of his time should be spent at his desk working on articles. He is much too busy for idle chit-chat.

Social interactions with his co-workers should be kept to a minimum, but when he does stick around for a chat around the water cooler, he should be polite and warm (to an extent), but not above [abruptly, almost rudely] excusing himself to go chase down a new lead [or to stop Brainiac from destroying the city].


And no one would suspect that he's Superman because they would never be around him long enough to get a feel of his personality. All they would know about him is that he's a damn good reporter who tells the occassional joke every once in a while. He's not really the odd man out in the office, but he very rarely ever attends office parties or other social gatherings. It's more of a case of everyone wanting to be his friend, but he doesn't let them, because he's always so busy. [So, really, no one really knows Clark Kent at all.]

This is the way I would portray Clark Kent if I were writing MOS. It's an effective way, I think, of establishing Clark as a real person, but also quite separate from Superman.

If no one knows much about him, or even has a feel of his personality... how is he not a question mark?

 

[Boy Scout]

Huh... i'm a bit confused about what you are suggesting he be like then.

I can see why you got confused. I'm really not communicating what I'm trying to say very well. And on top of that, my views on the character are constantly evolving, so sometimes, I even constradict myself. I already edited the post you just quoted to address some of your issues.

Now then...

Most of his time should be spent at his desk working on articles. He is much too busy for idle chit-chat.

What's the problem? Clark doesn't stop to talk when he's working. That's not to say that he would rudely turn people away when they try to strike up a conversation, it's just that most of attention would be on his article, so the conversation would be mostly one-sided. Once he's done, go ahead and grab a seat.

...they would never be around him long enough to get a feel of his personality...

You've convinced me to change my mind about this.

So, really, no one really knows Clark Kent at all.

By this I meant that he would be kind of like a friend of a friend: someone who you hang out with and can share laughs with and even have good conversations with, but you don't really know all that well. If that makes any sense.

 

[DrCosmic]

You know what would really set Clark apart as a non-Superman? A mid-western country twang. Big a big hick, a bit unkempt, a good ole boy. Choleric Sanguine where Superman is more more melancholy phlegmatic.

But you guys have some great ideas for setting up Clark's persona, my bigger question is, where does it come from for Clark? Is he just imitating someone? Is he being himself on any level? When he gets mad, does he show it at all? Or are all his emotional reactions fabricated for effect?