Christopher Nolan Meeting With Directorial Candidates

[Mrs. Sawyer]

I think you can have a self-doubting Superman, but that shouldn't be the..the spine of the narrative.

Indeed. Some writers get a bit anvilistic about Superman doubting his beliefs. I don't like Self-doubting Superman because few writers know how to approach this.

You're right, one of the aspects of Superman is that he's a confident guy. That was one of my problems with Singer's interpretation: I think he went too far into the deep end & it ultimately neglects the other aspects that makes Superman..Superman.

That's been the main problem with Superman. Many writers try make him human and that's alright. But they try to make him too human when Superman's appeal was that he was a powerful alien who stands for optimism.

 

[echostation]

Too much argument... my main thing is these directors will not care

They will combine aspects of Pre and Post Crisis Superman and just see what they can do to fit their stories even with all the power inconsistencies and all... It happens in so many Superhero films where the heroes' powers are inconsistently portrayed as it fits the vices of the plot. Like the Vices of a penile warrior on his savage pie prey....

The director who is standing in line for this gig needs to make sure to have the S in the costume to be Crisp, RAZOR SHARP and metallic. It should be very pointy and curved at the same time, like a crescent. This will be good and help market Superman abroad as more of a world friendly creature as opposed to an American. Heck they should add GREEN onto his costume in some way...

 

[Astrodust]

A few of you guys have really derailed this thread. Can't you get angry at each other in the other thread?

 

[Octoberist]

Duncan jones!

 

[Dark Knight]

I think Nolan and Snyder would be a BEASTLY colaberation! I am all up for that for a Superman film, I can't see one thing that would be wrong.

Goyer, the Nolan Brothers, and Snyder with Hamm as Superman FTW!

This team would give us the kick ass Superman film that has been needed for quite some time!

 

[akfj]

But haven't they said that the movie may be well into Superman's career and not an origin story?

Nolan and Goyer haven't said anything specific about what they want to do. The only story details we have come from Latino Review.

What was the studio that got Donner fired?

That was actually the Salkinds. Warner Bros. didn't have much to do with the production of Donner's film.

 

[Mr. Earle]

I'm just tired of self-doubting Superman. I want a very confident Superman. You can make a great Superman film without having him doubt his morals all the time.

Where do you get this stuff? Superman's morals are crystal clear 99% of the time. Of course everyone has to self doubt himself at times, but that's what the stories are for. Do you just want to see him challenged on a physical level?

Post Crisis Superman was given a lot of the traits spider-man/marvel characters were known for....like emphasis on the secret identity being the most important one and soap opera style storytelling.

And if I were talking about Morrison's Superman, there wouldnt even be an argument. Morrison's All Star Supes is not the current DCU character, which is still about Clark being the true self above all.

Its a given thast his "basic" characterization hasnt changed....but that dosent mean the current characterization is somehow good. Batman has always had the same basic characterization, and he still had crappy writing. Superman's head cheese in name only. Hes barely in the large company crossovers, and the hero that rallies the troops is Alan Scott most of the time. Superman today is just there.

The crossovers arent always about the same characters. Generation Lost is about the JLI even though its a worldwide thing, Blackest Night was about the GLs, Final Crisis featured Superman above all, etc.

You cant always have the same cast. Besides, Alan is like the granpa awesome of the DCU. I have no problem with him.

 

[Mr. Earle]

They limit how strong they make Superman as a character because of the financial situation. It's not a bad business decision but it's a terrible creative one.

STAS came out a decade before this financial situation. And seriously, if they wanted to hurt Superman so that the family wouldnt want him they would have made an animated series about some other hero. Hell, they even tried to revive his movie franchise with SR.

They put Superman in the Captain Marvel DTV because they have no confidence in their other characters and they treat the Marvels even worse than they do Superman.

Its proven by sales records that any DTV movie without Batman or Superman didnt sell so well. Therefore they ve have been limited to Superman/Batman movies for some time now and they re trying to promote other characters by having Superman there. Its a good thing.

As I said, their Superman was always unimpressive not just on JLA. He got consistently knocked out by electrical shocks for crying out loud.

Isnt that electric girl one of his comics villains anyway?

Superman was always that. Where they have messed up is they have mistook his compassion, care and decency for extreme naivete. The seem to equate positivity and optimism with blind cheerfulness.

I disagree. Only Batman thought he was naive at first and then he understood him and made him his bro. Everyone else admires him for his character.

1) You don't know what a Mary Sue is.
2) You never read comics when Superman was the most respected and beloved hero in the DCU and even Batman looked up to him. So I can't expect you to understand a time and a culture that you never experienced and never read.

Oh i know what a Mary Sue is. Its the character that everyone loves, that has all the best traits, and always wins in everything at the end of the day. See Bella from Twilight for example.

So please continue to hate DC because some character in their huge universe doesnt really like Superman. EVERYONE HAS TO LIKE HIM, RIGHT?

Once again: Superman should not have to win Batman over. If anything, it should be the opposite.

Batman had to win him over as well. Superman came to understand that Batman uses those methods because he has no superpowers and its the only feasible way to do crime fighting.
Batman on the other hand didnt like how he always sees the best in people, how he needs to have a secret identity when he could work 24/7, etc. Just read "SM/BM: Annual 2".

Of course for you "SUPERMAN RULES, BATMAN SUCKS. EVERYONE BOW TO SUPERMAN AND PREY HE ACCEPTS YOU".

All Kryptonians are near genius level intellect by Earth standards. Hence the "My son is 5 and doesn't know his calculus yet" line. And the place they've taken Superman to is a place that makes him look like a naive little fool. And Superman's origin is more epic and tragic than humble. Clark himself is humble by design, not because rural farmers are humble or some sort of group to be looked on with pity.

Its epic indeed, but the way he was raised was humble and cosy. There has to be a reason Siegel and Shuster chose a Kansas couple and not some Wall Street bankers.

All of which has kept him an eternal child and a loser.

If bad writers treat him like that, its their fault. Otherwise you dont have to be an orphan to be a man. That's ridiculous.

And not every element from the 40's still works but the basic ones do and those are the ones they kept from the 30's until the 80's. Superman as an ADULT. Clark as a nebbish. His beginnings as tragic, his life dedicated to others. His selflessness. The feelings of loneliness he had, and the lost world he can never save. Jettison all of that and you have a pretty bland character with no soul or pathos. It's just not compelling.

The thing is that i see those elements in the current Superman and i dont see him as an emo man-child the way you do.

They talk the talk, but then in the stories the character is consistently ineffective. Look at the New Krypton/War of the Superman mess where all he does is fail and fail. He's become a loser and people don't like losers unless they overcome it somehow.

New Krypton was crappy, so what did you expect from that lousy story?

You don't even know anything about the Bronze Age Lex except for what you've been told. But it's too late to educate you now because you're holding on to that "one dimensional mad scientist" crock that the DC propaganda machine fed people for years. Lex is a million time more interesting as the fallen friend whose potential for greatness is stifled due to his obsession with Superman. He could surpass Superman if he wasn't held back by pride and that wouldn't bother Superman one iota as long as the people reaped the rewards.

They still have that for Luthor. I've seen countless conversations between them where Lex claims that he could have cured cancer had it not been for him. And then Superman says that he would have if he cared enough for it.

Or that time he was a total toad in DKR which is about a million times better known a story?

The story is acclaimed because of its portrayal of Batman and because it brought grimdark batman back. Nobody takes Miller seriously when he writes other superheroes, or rather... nobody takes Miller seriously fullstop. And neither should you.

And yeah, I made it up where he totally failed all those times and got owned. Sure. I broke into DC's offices and filed those stories personally actually.

Every hero fails at first so that tension is created until he ultimately wins the day.
Would you like to tell me about these failures you re talking about? Last time i checked, he and a legion of his successors saved the world for Darkseid and Mandrakk.

 

[Astrodust]

Duncan jones!

No thank you. Did you see the pacing for Moon? Let's see if Jones can do an action film first. Not let's see if Jones can direct action for Superman. Reeves and Snyder are the best choices from that list. The problem is if they are willing to have another director oversee their work. You cant have 2 conductors directing one orchestra. Reeves and Snyder might be too big to want to work with someone else. That's why you don't see names like James Cameron, Spielberg, or Ridley Scott on the list.

 

[Octoberist]

People have to think outside of the box. With certain filmmakers, can you tell that they have that 'it' factor. Now predicting who's gonna be 'it' is hard sometimes because look at GAVIN HOOD did with Wolverine. But then you've got Batman Begins from a guy who has never done an action movie prior. It's always a gamble.

So yes, I would gamble on Jones because I feel like he has that geek sensibilities and IMAGINATION to handle something like this. And like what I've said before, Jones should bring in a rough cut of Source Code to WB, to prove that he can handle action.

Let's say Jones gets the gig, I can see people being skeptical but I can't see anyone overly objecting to him.

 

[hatebox]

I'm not completely opposed to Synder but I don't want it to have the same (fake) look as 300, Watchmen or Suckerpunch.

I don't need my superman to be Nolan-esque realistic, but I want the story to take place in a recognizable world.

 

[solidsnake86]

I think depending on how the script plays out whichever director gets chosen will have a real opportunity to do something amazing. If it is true that brainiac is the villain, between him and if he has drones we may finally get to see superman let loose. With SR we got glimpses of what a superman movie could be (i still think the airplane scene was amazing) but that was the high point of the action. Obviously this film will be dependent on the budget but WB isn't one to go cheap on these things, heck they gave the dark knight 185 million. If there is one good thing we can take away from having to wait another 6 years for a new film to come out is the leap in technology from 2006.

 

[Astrodust]

People have to think outside of the box. With certain filmmakers, can you tell that they have that 'it' factor. Now predicting who's gonna be 'it' is hard sometimes because look at GAVIN HOOD did with Wolverine. But then you've got Batman Begins from a guy who has never done an action movie prior. It's always a gamble.

So yes, I would gamble on Jones because I feel like he has that geek sensibilities and IMAGINATION to handle something like this. And like what I've said before, Jones should bring in a rough cut of Source Code to WB, to prove that he can handle action.

Let's say Jones gets the gig, I can see people being skeptical but I can't see anyone overly objecting to him.

Yes but Superman needs top notch action and Jones has done 1 and half films. Even with experienced director's, their style can differ greatly. Ridlly Scott, Michael Bay, John Woo, and Timur Bekmambettov all have vastly different approaches to action. The problem is we don't really know what Jones is capable of. You can't just give him 200 million and say show us what you can do. No place in their right mind would hire you without looking at your resume first. Just cause a director can handle characterization doesn't remotely mean they can handle action. And just cause someone has made a good small budget indie film doesnt mean they know anything about big budget summer tentpole movies.

 

[souvlaki]

Yes but Superman needs top notch action and Jones has done 1 and half films. Even with experienced director's, their style can differ greatly. Ridlly Scott, Michael Bay, John Woo, and Timur Bekmambettov all have vastly different approaches to action. The problem is we don't really know what Jones is capable of. You can't just give him 200 million and say show us what you can do. No place in their right mind would hire you without looking at your resume first. Just cause a director can handle characterization doesn't remotely mean they can handle action. And just cause someone has made a good small budget indie film doesnt mean they know anything about big budget summer tentpole movies.

Everything you just said could have perfectly described Christopher Nolan and Batman Begins back in 2004.

 

[Kurosawa]

Mostly going around in circles, but a couple of things to address:

Oh i know what a Mary Sue is. Its the character that everyone loves, that has all the best traits, and always wins in everything at the end of the day. See Bella from Twilight for example.

Not exactly. Bella is not quite a Mary Sue even though she is a clear stand in for Stephenie Meyer because how a Mary Sue is classically defined is they are a new character inserted into an already existing series and then made to look superior to the characters who were originally there. So examples of Mary Sues are more like Mara Jade from Star Wars, or Wolverine, Kyle Rayner, Storm is something of a Sue, etc. It's generally a bad thing but not all Mary Sue/Gary Stu characters suck.

So please continue to hate DC because some character in their huge universe doesnt really like Superman. EVERYONE HAS TO LIKE HIM, RIGHT?
Batman had to win him over as well. Superman came to understand that Batman uses those methods because he has no superpowers and its the only feasible way to do crime fighting.
Batman on the other hand didnt like how he always sees the best in people, how he needs to have a secret identity when he could work 24/7, etc. Just read "SM/BM: Annual 2".

I don't think everyone has to love him but most people should and he is looked on with disdain way too much nowadays.

Its epic indeed, but the way he was raised was humble and cosy. There has to be a reason Siegel and Shuster chose a Kansas couple and not some Wall Street bankers.

Well they never said Smallville was in Kansas, that was a change that was made in the Donner movie. Traditionally Smallville was in the Northeast but it was still a small, rural town, so it was similar. The idea that he came from a small town was the important thing, not the farm which in fact was abandoned pretty quickly as Pa Kent moved into town and ran a store instead.

If bad writers treat him like that, its their fault. Otherwise you dont have to be an orphan to be a man. That's ridiculous.
The thing is that i see those elements in the current Superman and i dont see him as an emo man-child the way you do.
New Krypton was crappy, so what did you expect from that lousy story?
They still have that for Luthor. I've seen countless conversations between them where Lex claims that he could have cured cancer had it not been for him. And then Superman says that he would have if he cared enough for it.

New Krypton was not bad until the got to the War of the Superman where Supes was a total flop. And his total lack of a reaction to it is even worse. They had a chance there to address some good stuff and missed it.

The story is acclaimed because of its portrayal of Batman and because it brought grimdark batman back. Nobody takes Miller seriously when he writes other superheroes, or rather... nobody takes Miller seriously fullstop. And neither should you.
Every hero fails at first so that tension is created until he ultimately wins the day.
Would you like to tell me about these failures you re talking about? Last time i checked, he and a legion of his successors saved the world for Darkseid and Mandrakk.

Batman had been grim and dark for years before DKR. I honestly don't know why it was so popular, I thought it sucked ass especially compared to the O'Neil/Adams Batman. And his best work ever was on another superhero, Daredevil.

Post Crisis Superman was given a lot of the traits spider-man/marvel characters were known for....like emphasis on the secret identity being the most important one and soap opera style storytelling.

And if I were talking about Morrison's Superman, there wouldnt even be an argument. Morrison's All Star Supes is not the current DCU character, which is still about Clark being the true self above all.

Its a given thast his "basic" characterization hasnt changed....but that dosent mean the current characterization is somehow good. Batman has always had the same basic characterization, and he still had crappy writing. Superman's head cheese in name only. Hes barely in the large company crossovers, and the hero that rallies the troops is Alan Scott most of the time. Superman today is just there.

Agree 100%. And hey, I love Alan Scott. He IS Green Lantern to me. And I like him being a leader. But Superman should not just be a face in the crowd. It's beyond lame. Superman should be going after Lex right now for killing the Kryptonians. Instead he's taking a Forrest Gump walk on his latest emo mope-fest while Lex has a ball beating up other supervillains and running around with a Lois Lane fembot. Man, their Superman is freaking lame as hell.

They need to go in the All-Star Superman direction for the movie. I don't trust Morrison completely but that book IS Superman.

 

[dark_b]

Everything you just said could have perfectly described Christopher Nolan and Batman Begins back in 2004.

and yet people complained that the action was nto big and good enough.

so ....................

 

[Octoberist]

who cares, it was a good movie.

The action in Dark Knight was jarring (besides the awesome car chase) but it's still great.

Now I do care if Duncan's action scenes was outright diasterous, and the narrative poor, but I have a good feeling about him.

 

[Octoberist]

BTW, I did research on Brainiac.

DID YOU KNOW that the word Brainiac CAME from the character Brainiac? So it was invented in the comics and the term was implanted into our culture.

I had NO IDEA!

 

[dark_b]

who cares, it was a good movie.

The action in Dark Knight was jarring (besides the awesome car chase) but it's still great.

Now I do care if Duncan's action scenes was outright diasterous, and the narrative poor, but I have a good feeling about him.

he wanted to compare how Jones could be like Nolan in 2004. right?

some are natural talents when it comes to big action and some are not. Singer and Nolan are not. end of story. if they would be then everyone would list their movies as best action movies.

so i f... dont care if it was a good movie. they talked about action. doesnt f... matter if it was a good movie.

 

[Mr. Earle]

Batman had been grim and dark for years before DKR. I honestly don't know why it was so popular, I thought it sucked ass especially compared to the O'Neil/Adams Batman.

I think that the grimdark aspect was forgotten for a while and Miller brought it back. TDKR was a good book i think, but it was also bad in many ways.

And his best work ever was on another superhero, Daredevil.

I havent read it, but i've heard a lot of people say that. I should read it sometime.

Agree 100%. And hey, I love Alan Scott. He IS Green Lantern to me. And I like him being a leader. But Superman should not just be a face in the crowd. It's beyond lame. Superman should be going after Lex right now for killing the Kryptonians. Instead he's taking a Forrest Gump walk on his latest emo mope-fest while Lex has a ball beating up other supervillains and running around with a Lois Lane fembot. Man, their Superman is freaking lame as hell.

I agree, and i've heard a lot of people agree as well. New Krypton and millions of Kryptonians were killed and Superman cares more about a grief struck woman who was talking crap. Its just crap. I assume that DC wanted to try JMS' idea instead of having a bunch of issues about Superman crying about NK. Sucks either way.

 

[truth]

Wait, I thought it is a universally held TRUTH that Superman Returns was a failure.

A remake?

Routh?

Bad Acting?

Too dark?

Come on guys. Stop being funny. Superman Returns failed...hence the reboot talk that we're having with Nolan and co.

 

[Dark Knight]

I think depending on how the script plays out whichever director gets chosen will have a real opportunity to do something amazing. If it is true that brainiac is the villain, between him and if he has drones we may finally get to see superman let loose. With SR we got glimpses of what a superman movie could be (i still think the airplane scene was amazing) but that was the high point of the action. Obviously this film will be dependent on the budget but WB isn't one to go cheap on these things, heck they gave the dark knight 185 million. If there is one good thing we can take away from having to wait another 6 years for a new film to come out is the leap in technology from 2006.

Goyer, the Nolans, and Snyder would make for a DYNAMIC creative team to execute the next Superman film!

Get WETA to do the SFX and we may finally see the kick arse Superman film we have been waiting to see for quite some time!

I doubt Nolan will go with Zack though, but we shall see.

 

[BH/HHH]

BTW, I did research on Brainiac.

DID YOU KNOW that the word Brainiac CAME from the character Brainiac? So it was invented in the comics and the term was implanted into our culture.

I had NO IDEA!

Thats awesome

 

[HighFivingMF]

Wait, I thought it is a universally held TRUTH that Superman Returns was a failure.

A remake?

Routh?

Bad Acting?

Too dark?

Come on guys. Stop being funny. Superman Returns failed...hence the reboot talk that we're having with Nolan and co.

It wasn't a remake. A good handful of people liked Routh. The acting wasn't terrible. It made 120 million dollars over the budget. It didn't fail at the box office, it just underperformed.

The movie had a lot of bad ideas, a less-than-stellar script, and not much action. But it had some good ideas as well.

 

[BH/HHH]

It wasn't a remake. A good handful of people liked Routh. The acting wasn't terrible. It made 120 million dollars over the budget. It didn't fail at the box office, it just underperformed.

The movie had a lot of bad ideas, a less-than-stellar script, and not much action. But it had some good ideas as well.