Christopher Nolan's Inception

[Solidus]

This is Inception vs Matrix, not a comparison of the directors' entire filmography. The Wachowski's could make a dozen more turds for all I care, doesn't retroactively erase the amazing work they did with the first Matrix.

Inception had moments of brilliance; the hallway fight, your avvy, the paradox staircase, zero-g bodies, etc. He'll have these great visions for a particular shot, but I just feel like he can't maintain it for an entire sequence. The main action beats were so...generic. I can't stress that enough. People shoot, guys fall, tons of bullets miss, people shoot some more. Aside from the standout moments I mentioned, what was really there in the actual choreography? It was hollow to me.

I won't knock Nolan too much for this, as I can't think of a single director that actually has the ability to film action and story so well, on a consistent basis. It's worthy to make note of, however. It's a standout weak point in an otherwise fantastic movie.

Actually someone did say something about thir skills as a director and of course I went into their whole filmography to talk more about further skills of directing but that was not my main point. The Matrix is brilliant I have the collection on Blu. But as for the action I guess all I can say is I did not feel the same. To me Kung-Fu and cool kicks don't get me going any more than just bullets and gunfire. I never felt generic I felt pumped the entire time. But with Nolan films the action sequences are usually the least part of my worries. And not the focus of the film for me. But again I will just admit we may have different view on that.. But I agree The Matrix is a classic.

But I think Inception will become one too. Maybe on different grounds but still something that will be remembered.

 

[spider-neil]

The movie isn't even about that though. That's just window dressing.

I said the bits that interested ME, but tell a lie I did find the story of cobb and mel compelling but I felt that I had seen it before having seen shutter island but to be fair that is no fault of nolan.

 

[Solidus]

EDIT: So I guess this is to two people lol. Forgive me for that. Wow I must be tired. Sorry for the sloppy edit but my point still stands.

I don't agree with that at all.. It is a complex film it may not be your cup of tea but this film discusses many of the themes and beyond that Philip K. Dick and many other sci fi writers have discussed.

I've heard that exact line from people describing Blade Runner for the past 15 years on the internet as well as The Matrix or 2001. To me some people just don't want to admit a film's complex if they don't like it. I don't like calculus at all but I won't deny it's complexity.

 

[spider-neil]

I saw your post before the edit so I guess I will go off of that. NM I thought it changed lol. EDIT: So I guess this is to two people lol. Forgive me for that.

I don't agree with that at all. Dude you don't like the film that's fine. . It is a complex film it may not be your cup of tea but this film discusses many of the themes and beyond that Philip K. Dick and many other sci fi writers have discussed.

I've heard that exact line from people describing Blade Runner for the past 15 years on the internet as well as The Matrix or 2001. To me some people just don't want to admit a film's complex if they don't like it. I don't like calculus at all but I won't deny it's complexity.

is that aimed at me? of course the movie is complex, its a dream, within a dream, within a dream but for me the important thing is the characters (maybe more so than the plot) and nolan takes next to no time to develope anyone beyond cobb, that's fine but he then takes those undeveloped characters and places them in action scenes (with little to no threat) and expects people to care what happens. I just can't do that.

for instance, for all the flaws of avatar no one can say when home tree fell they didn't fell anything.

 

[Crook]

But as for the action I guess all I can say is I did not feel the same. To me Kung-Fu and cool kicks don't get me going any more than just bullets and gunfire.

For me it's not about the actual gunfire, hits, or explosions. It's how you paint them. People love to emphasize the emotion behind the characters during an action sequence, and yet completely fail to consider the other half that makes it complete...the visuals and choreography.

People certainly argue against anyone that felt books and movies convey a story the exact same way, so it does strike me weird they don't realize there is more than one component that makes up a visual space.

But with Nolan films the action sequences are usually the least part of my worries. And not the focus of the film for me.

To be fair the discussion was about one particular aspect of both films. If we're talking about action, I'm not concerned with the script. At that point we're not even discussing the same subject.

 

[Sentinel X]

EDIT: So I guess this is to two people lol. Forgive me for that. Wow I must be tired. Sorry for the sloppy edit but my point still stands.

I don't agree with that at all.. It is a complex film it may not be your cup of tea but this film discusses many of the themes and beyond that Philip K. Dick and many other sci fi writers have discussed.

I've heard that exact line from people describing Blade Runner for the past 15 years on the internet as well as The Matrix or 2001. To me some people just don't want to admit a film's complex if they don't like it. I don't like calculus at all but I won't deny it's complexity.

To be honest, I don't think the movie is that complex either. Sure, it is more complex then most films out there but if you paid attention well there is no need to not understand the film after one viewing. I think it was a really well layered film (like Memento) that might warrant another viewing for some if your mind was wandering off elsewhere at any particular point in time. I agree that it may have some really heavy themes and metaphors but then again some of the most simple movies can too.

Not knocking it down or anything, though. Its possibly one of my top 5 favorite films ever.

 

[Solidus]

is that aimed at me? of course the movie is complex, its a dream, within a dream, within a dream but for me the important thing is the characters (maybe more so than the plot) and nolan takes next to no time to develope anyone beyond cobb, that's fine but he then takes those undeveloped characters and places them in action scenes (with little to no threat) and expects people to care what happens. I just can't do that.

for instance, for all the flaws of avatar no one can say when home tree fell they didn't fell anything.

To a point. Forgive me spider lol I was yelling at my dog for chewing up the sprinkler and to stop. While talking to you. My mistake lol.

As for the other stuff I did find great complexity in the charactgers on my multiple viewing it was just subtle and hard for me to grasp in a different light on my first few viewings. Once I saw the idea that Cobb truly is the center of the film in many ways, I loved it more.

But again to eaches own. I'm off to stop the dog for a moment.

 

[redfirebird2008]

could it be 'the emperor's new clothes' with some of the GA with all proclaiming this movie cerebral, complex and dense and no one wanting to admit they didn't get it else they will be labeled stupid. I didn't think the plot was complex at all, several characters go at length to explain the details (one of my problems with the movie is too mcuh exposition) my problem was they spend so much time explaining inception they left no time to develope the team that were tasked with implementing inception.

It's a heist flick on the surface but underneath it's a therapy session for one character. With that in mind, I'm not sure why people expected 2 hours of developing each member of the team. They're doing it for money just like criminals usually do. I did feel Hardy did a great job with his character. Page was surprisingly great as DiCaprio's therapist.

 

[spider-neil]

To be fair the discussion was about one particular aspect of both films. If we're talking about action, I'm not concerned with the script. At that point we're not even discussing the same subject.

the script and action are kinda linked because the script leads the characters to the moment in time where the action starts, if the script has done its job competently you will care if the characters live or die, if the script has failed in this aspect regardless of how spectaular or bambastic the action they will be no emotional rapport with the characters and you'll not care either way what happens. think of all the best action sequences in the history of cinema, chances are you cared about the characters in those action scenes.

 

[Solidus]

For me it's not about the actual gunfire, hits, or explosions. It's how you paint them. People love to emphasize the emotion behind the characters during an action sequence, and yet completely fail to consider the other half that makes it complete...the visuals and choreography.

People certainly argue against anyone that felt books and movies convey a story the exact same way, so it does strike me weird they don't realize there is more than one component that makes up a visual space.

To be fair the discussion was about one particular aspect of both films. If we're talking about action, I'm not concerned with the script. At that point we're not even discussing the same subject.

I see your point but I guess it did not bug me much in this film. But good points.

To be honest, I don't think the movie is that complex either. Sure, it is more complex then most films out there but if you paid attention well there is no need to not understand the film after one viewing. I think it was a really well layered film (like Memento) that might warrant another viewing for some if your mind was wandering off elsewhere at any particular point in time. I agree that it may have some really heavy themes and metaphors but then again some of the most simple movies can too.

Not knocking it down or anything, though. Its possibly one of my top 5 favorite films ever.

And I know your not knocking it down, but to me something is complex where there is no answer or black and white, and endless theories and ideas that can spawn from it. But maybe I'm using the wrong word usage.

I'm sorry guys my past few posts have been bad cuz I'm trying to multi-task and I'm failing miserably lol.

 

[redfirebird2008]

is that aimed at me? of course the movie is complex, its a dream, within a dream, within a dream but for me the important thing is the characters (maybe more so than the plot) and nolan takes next to no time to develope anyone beyond cobb, that's fine but he then takes those undeveloped characters and places them in action scenes (with little to no threat) and expects people to care what happens. I just can't do that.

The stakes are very high if you care about Cobb at all. If the job fails, he goes to prison for the rest of his life and never sees his kids again. So even if his team members are only participating because of the money, their success or failure has a direct impact on Cobb.

 

[spider-neil]

It's a heist flick on the surface but underneath it's a therapy session for one character. With that in mind, I'm not sure why people expected 2 hours of developing each member of the team. They're doing it for money just like criminals usually do. I did feel Hardy did a great job with his character. Page was surprisingly great as DiCaprio's therapist.

this reminds me of 'heat' with one of the supposed greatest shoot out scenes in cinematic history. I didn't care one jot for al pacino/de niro' characters so when this big massive shoot out starts I didn't care who lived or died.

I can honestly say I enjoyed the dialogue (in inception) far more than I enjoyed the action.

 

[jmc]

It's a heist flick on the surface but underneath it's a therapy session for one character. With that in mind, I'm not sure why people expected 2 hours of developing each member of the team. They're doing it for money just like criminals usually do. I did feel Hardy did a great job with his character. Page was surprisingly great as DiCaprio's therapist.

Yeah, you'd have to turn Inception into some 12 part HBO series in order to do better character development for all of them, I get the complaint that you don't really end up caring about the others team members, but as you say the film is really a therapy session for Cobb, and there's only so much you can do in 2 and half hours.

 

[Solidus]

It's a heist flick on the surface but underneath it's a therapy session for one character. With that in mind, I'm not sure why people expected 2 hours of developing each member of the team. They're doing it for money just like criminals usually do. I did feel Hardy did a great job with his character. Page was surprisingly great as DiCaprio's therapist.

Very well put sometimes you speak the words I'm trying to find lol.

 

[Sentinel X]

I see your point but I guess it did not bug me much in this film. But good points.


And I know your not knocking it down, but to me something is complex where there is no answer or black and white, and endless theories and ideas that can spawn from it. But maybe I'm using the wrong word usage.

I'm sorry guys my past few posts have been bad cuz I'm trying to multi-task and I'm failing miserably lol.

For films like this I say: deep. They have wonderful themes and can keep you thinking about them for days (like The Matrix). However, I think the plot was not too hard to follow (again, if you were paying attention).

I love how Nolan essentially created a whole new universe. There are so much stories that can be told but obviously it seems like this one was made to be a stand alone...which is how it should be.

 

[spider-neil]

The stakes are very high if you care about Cobb at all. If the job fails, he goes to prison for the rest of his life and never sees his kids again. So even if his team members are only participating because of the money, their success or failure has a direct impact on Cobb.

I think it would have made a massive difference if the adverts I saw before the movie were more akin to 'oceans 11' and not 'the matrix' because to be honest I went in expecting one thing and got another, that is why I am watching the movie again because my expectations were all wrong and inception deserves a second viewing if for no other reason than to make an original movie a success becuase the sequels and remarks are getting out of hand.

 

[redfirebird2008]

this reminds me of 'heat' with one of the supposed greatest shoot out scenes in cinematic history. I didn't care one jot for al pacino/de niro' characters so when this big massive shoot out starts I didn't care who lived or died.

I can honestly say I enjoyed the dialogue (in inception) far more than I enjoyed the action.

Yeah, well I would say that's true for any good movie. I enjoyed the philosophy of The Matrix more than I enjoyed the action in that film. And if you want to talk about films that do not engage the viewer's emotion, that one is darn near the top of my list. Keanu Reeves is as wooden as it gets. Did not give a damn about what happened to his character in that film, but I was very impressed that the Wachowskis were able to put all of that philosophical dialogue into a relatively big budget action movie. Took balls to do that and kudos to WB for letting them do it.

 

[Tacit Ronin]

Maybe its my fault. I expected every action scene in Inception to be as good as the transport chase from TDK.

So I guess it was too much expectation on my end.

 

[jmc]

I've never cared for The Matrix personally, I think it was Reeves that threw me off it.

 

[spider-neil]

Yeah, well I would say that's true for any good movie. I enjoyed the philosophy of The Matrix more than I enjoyed the action in that film. And if you want to talk about films that do not engage the viewer's emotion, that one is darn near the top of my list. Keanu Reeves is as wooden as it gets. Did not give a damn about what happened to his character in that film, but I was very impressed that the Wachowskis were able to put all of that philosophical dialogue into a relatively big budget action movie. Took balls to do that and kudos to WB for letting them do it.

kudos to WB for bank rolling;
the matrix - a completely new property
inception - a completely new property
watchmen - although it turned out to be a PoS WB still took a risk on a R rated superhero movie

 

[spider-neil]

another movie inception 'kinda' reminded me of was dark city. awesome sci-fi movie.

 

[redfirebird2008]

kudos to WB for bank rolling;
the matrix - a completely new property
inception - a completely new property
watchmen - although it turned out to be a PoS WB still took a risk on a R rated superhero movie

My only complaint about WB with Watchmen is that they forced Snyder to cut it down to 2 hours and 40 minutes or whatever the theatrical runtime was. The movie isn't perfect but I do enjoy the Director's Cut more than the theatrical version.

 

[spider-neil]

My only complaint about WB with Watchmen is that they forced Snyder to cut it down to 2 hours and 40 minutes or whatever the theatrical runtime was. The movie isn't perfect but I do enjoy the Director's Cut more than the theatrical version.

opening credits - best ever (and I mean EVER)
first 20 minutes - pitch perfect
rest of the movie - unwatchable

 

[Solidus]

My only complaint about WB with Watchmen is that they forced Snyder to cut it down to 2 hours and 40 minutes or whatever the theatrical runtime was. The movie isn't perfect but I do enjoy the Director's Cut more than the theatrical version.

Yea the Ultimate Cut was truly my favorite. The film had flaws for sure I ate crow about the new ending and I hated it lol. Squid should have been there.. But the Ultimate cut was actually pretty good.

 

[spider-neil]

leonardo dicaprio, best actor of his generation?

inception
shutter island
the departed
the aviator

I have problems with all four movies but one constant is utterly compelling performances from leo.