Christopher Nolan's Inception

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Btw, whats up with the names? OK i get "Ariadne" (Thisseas, maze, Minotaur, etc) but what kind of name is Dom Cobb? I mean seriously...

Let's talk about the names. This has been discussed elsewhere on the net, but I thought I'd look them up.

Dom means "The greatest" or "The greatest god" in Latin. Cobb is the last name of Nolan's character in FOLLOWING. "Cobb" is also, and you may find this interesting...a type of parasite or bacteria. So his name could mean "The greatest parasite", which is sort of fitting in a sense.

Mal Cobb is one I figured out in the theatre. Mal means evil in latin (and by extension Spanish and French). So "Mal Cobb" could mean "Evil Cobb".

Ariadne is obvious to anyone familiar with Greek mythology and mazes. She led Theseus out of the Minotaur maze.

Arthur is obvious, in terms of its heroic connotations. It could also be a veiled reference to Arthur C. Clarke, who wrote the book that became the movie 2001: A SPACE ODYSSEY, a movie that seems to influence INCEPTION. And let's face it, we do see a zero g moment from Arthur in the movie.

Robert Fischer. This is a longshot, but it could be a reference to Bobby Fischer, the American chess champion. Chess? Eh? Probably not, but it's interesting to think about.

"Eames" could be an homage to Charles and Ray "Eames", who were designers, and had an impact on...architecture and film.

"Nash" could be a reference to matematician John Nash of A BEAUTIFUL MIND.

Yusef I'm still trying to figure out beyond the fact that it means "Joseph", and Michael Caine's character of Miles.

I've seen several times that character development for the supporting cast didn't matter...because this was Cobb's story.

Then you develop characters relationships with Cobb.
 
just watched inception today...
amazing movie!!!
i read the reviews prior to watching the movies and i understood the whole plot!!...some people did not like it because it was too complicated but i think Christopher nolan did an awesome job and this movie
10/10
 
They did...it's called Reloaded. I wouldn't bother.

No, in Reloaded all they did was add more kung-fu action scenes. I was expecting Neo to really be able to warp the reality of the Matrix, similar to what they did in Inception actually, but with more ramifications.

And that's fine Niel. I don't dislike the Matrix. I love the first movie, I just thought that they had a lot more potential. Still a great movie though.
 
so why do you think nolan didn't push the 'wacky' nature of dream world more?
"Dreams feel real while we're in them." If he had gone all out with the surrealism, we wouldn't have bought it as real because the audience is awake while watching the movie. The mind tricks itself as it's dreaming, but Nolan doesn't quite have that power. :cwink: By going the real route, Nolan attempts to trick the audience's mind into questioning what's real and what's not, kinda like how he went backwards with Memento to give the audience a taste of what Leonard experiences every day.

Also, they explain the realism in the movie too - the subject of the dream would rebel through projections and kill the other dreamers if they felt what they were experiencing wasn't real. It's easier for that to happen if there are other people in your dream messing things up, and not just you being creative.
 
so why do you think nolan didn't push the 'wacky' nature of dream world more?

Well, the subconscious aspect dealt more with mental constructs than full on dreams. If they weren't held back, it'd be pretty easy to tell the difference between reality and dreams, which would contradict the film's main theme.

EDIT: Anita beat me to it.:cmad:
 
Let's talk about the names. This has been discussed elsewhere on the net, but I thought I'd look them up.

Dom means "The greatest" or "The greatest god" in Latin. Cobb is the last name of Nolan's character in FOLLOWING. "Cobb" is also, and you may find this interesting...a type of parasite or bacteria. So his name could mean "The greatest parasite", which is sort of fitting in a sense.

Mal Cobb is one I figured out in the theatre. Mal means evil in latin (and by extension Spanish and French). So "Mal Cobb" could mean "Evil Cobb".
That's great and all, but these two names dont sound real.
 
useful info for the people who have seen the movie. don't read if you havent

Totems - The purpose of a totem is to give you a way to make sure you're not being conned by someone else. In any dreamworld, one person is the host, and everyone else is a subject. The host's mind is responsible for creating the setting and objects in the dream world. The subjects then populate the world with their subconscious. As long as you keep something specific about your totem secret, such as its weight or feel, a host will never be able to recreate it right, and this you can always use your totem as a test to make sure you're not in a deeper level of reality than you think you are.

Kicks - A kick only brings you back to the reality in which it happened, it only reaches one reality deep, and it only affects you if you're conscious in the reality the kick is trying to pull you from. On top of that, it appears that a trained dreamer can resist the effect of a kick to a certain degree based on the severity of the kick and the strength of the sedative used. When layering multiple dreams, multiple kicks are needed to work backwards through the layers. For example, the crashing elevator in the hotel level would pull those in the ice fortress level back to the hotel. Once they were conscious in the hotel level, they would be susceptible to the kick of the van crashing into the water. There was no kick planned in the airplane, though, meaning that they would have to wait in the van level for the sedative in the airplane to wear off.

Hosts vs. Architects - The architect merely designs the level needed for a mission, but the architect is not necessarily the host. It is implied that the architect, likely through other shared dreams, is able to help the actual host prepare the level he will be hosting. In the mission shown in the movie, Ariadne is not the host to any of the levels. In fact, she wasn't even supposed to go along on the mission, and only insisted on going after seeing just how unstable Cobb was. Yusuf, the chemist, is the host to the van level. (His failure to go the bathroom before getting sedated on the plane is the reason why it is raining in his level.) Arthur, the point man, is the host of the hotel level. Eames, the forger, is the host of the ice fortress level. It is implied that in a layered dreamworld, the host can't go deeper than the world he is hosting. This is why Yusuf goes no deeper than van level, Arthur goes no deeper than the hotel level, and Eames goes no deeper than the ice fortress level. (Note: Arthur is able to use the stair paradox trick in the hotel level because he is that level's host.)

Guests vs. Marks - A guest's subconscious populates a host's dreamworld. Apparently a guest who knows what he or she is doing can control this to an extent, and thus only the mark's subconscious ends up making up the majority of the world's populous. However, if another guest, such as Cobb, has difficulty controlling his subconscious, parts of it, such as Mal, can start to enter the hosted world.

Forgers - A Forger has the ability to alter his or her projection within a level. Weather or not he can do this in a level he is hosting is unknown. What special skills allows a forger to do this is also unknown, but its possible that a forger has developed a very strong control over his subconscious's sense of self. (In the van level, Eames interrupts Arthur's firing of a sub machine gun by telling Arthur that he shouldn't be afraid to dream bigger. Eames then attacks the enemies with a grenade launcher. There are two possible explanations for this... 1. Eames' forger ability allow him to create not just new personae for himself, but also new tools. 2. The teamed worked with the architect to design the van level prior to the mission itself, and it was during this shared dream planning that the various members let the architect know which tools they wanted available in the level. Eame's remark to Arthur was then simply Eame's way of saying to Arthur that next to he plans for a mission, he shouldn't be afraid to tell the architect to give him some truly impressive tools.

Time - Time in a dreamworld moves faster than time in a level above it. In a multi layered dream, this effect compounds. It is stated that under normal circumstances, five minutes in the real world allows for 1 hour in the dream world below. This is a ratio of 1:12. It is also stated that a strong enough sedative can increase this ratio. For the mission, the ratio is said to be 1:20. Thus, one hour on the airplane would be 20 hours in the van level, which in turn would be almost 17 days in the hotel level, and close to one year in the ice fortress level.

Death - Getting killed in a dreamworld typically causes one to awake in the level above where you were killed. However, a strong enough sedative can suppress this feature, and will instead send the individual who died to limbo. During the mission, Saito is shot while in the van level and slowly begins to die. When he enters a lower level, the wound is no longer on his body, however he is still slowly dieing. (He is dying at 1/20th the rate at each subsequent level, due to the time compounding effect.) When Saito finally dies in the van level, his death propagates down through all the levels and he goes to limbo. Normally he would have returned to the airplane, but the strong nature of the sedative prevented that from happening. When Fischer is killed in the ice fortress level, he does not wake up back in the hotel level, because the same strong sedative was used between the hotel level and the ice fortress level.

Limbo - Limbo is an unconstructed dream state of pure subconsciousness. It is apparently very hard for a dreamer to maintain awareness of reality and even self awareness while in limbo. The rate of time in limbo is very unpredictable, and an unprepared dreamer in limbo could find himself stuck there for a near infinite period of time. The only way it is shown to exit limbo is to commit suicide there, or possibly to live long enough in limbo for the sedative to wear off. It is also not clear if someone else can kill you in limbo to set you free, or if you have to choose to kill yourself. It is also implied that limbo is not bound by the normal host/guest rules. Multiple dreamers are apparently able to share a limbo, and with practice are able to both shape limbo to be whatever they want. The movie doesn't give much info on what a truly uncontrolled limbo is like. Its possible that the limbo during the mission would have simply been a jumbled mess of the subconscious of all the members of the shared dream. Cobb, however, has extensive experience shaping and controlling limbo, and thus is able to host limbo, (or at least part of it), as another level beneath the ice fortress level. When he creates this new level, he connects Adaidne and Fischer to himself with a dream machine in the ice fortress level, thus allowing them to be guests in his hosted limbo, and proving the pathway by which to "kick" Fischer back to the ice fortress level. The kicker that Eames uses on Fischer is to shock him with the defibrillator. This apparently provides enough of a shock to the system to trigger a kick. However, since the only way to leave limbo is to die in limbo, Fischer has to jump from the skyscraper when he detects the kick happening. Ariadne in turn has to jump from the sky scraper when she detects that Eames triggers the second kick in the ice fortress level, by imploding the fortress on itself. (When Fischer is "kicked" back to the ice fortress world, his bullet wound is apparently gone. Why this happened it unexplained, however there are several possibilities. 1. The wound was merely a flesh wound that had an unlucky side effect of stopping his heart. 2. Eames, as the host of the level, was able to alter the nature of the wound while Fischer was in limbo. 3. Once Cobb made peace with Mal, the wound she had caused Fischer was undone. 4. The act of dying in Limbo resets Fischer's subconscious self awareness of life and death, and thus when he wakes up from limbo back in the ice fortress level, his subconscious projects a new, non-dead persona of himself. (Note: Cobb, by not committing suicide in limbo, avoided the kick in the ice fortress level. He then spent an unknown amount of time hunting for Saito in limbo. It is implied that this takes many decades since Saito is now an old man, however Cobb is not old, which leads to two possibilities. 1. Limbo moves at a different pace for each person. 2. Cobb, as an experienced dreamer in limbo knew that it was all still just limbo, and this his subconscious didn't age him.) When Cobb finally finds Saito, he hands him a gun and convinces Saito to commit suicide with him, setting them both free from limbo. It is unclear weather or not their subconscious minds cause this event to happen right as the sedative on the airplane is wearing off, or if the suicide sends them to some truly unconscious state that they both wait in unaware until such time as the sedative in the airplane wears off.
 
So i've heard a lot of you guys say that
Mal is scary and i have to ask why. Does her face change into a monstrous face? Does she sneak up on people? What's the deal?
 
So i've heard a lot of you guys say that
Mal is scary and i have to ask why. Does her face change into a monstrous face? Does she sneak up on people? What's the deal?
No. It's just that when she shows up,
**** hits the fan. Kinda like the Joker without makeup. :funny:
 
useful info for the people who have seen the movie. don't read if you havent

Totems - The purpose of a totem is to give you a way to make sure you're not being conned by someone else. In any dreamworld, one person is the host, and everyone else is a subject. The host's mind is responsible for creating the setting and objects in the dream world. The subjects then populate the world with their subconscious. As long as you keep something specific about your totem secret, such as its weight or feel, a host will never be able to recreate it right, and this you can always use your totem as a test to make sure you're not in a deeper level of reality than you think you are.

Kicks - A kick only brings you back to the reality in which it happened, it only reaches one reality deep, and it only affects you if you're conscious in the reality the kick is trying to pull you from. On top of that, it appears that a trained dreamer can resist the effect of a kick to a certain degree based on the severity of the kick and the strength of the sedative used. When layering multiple dreams, multiple kicks are needed to work backwards through the layers. For example, the crashing elevator in the hotel level would pull those in the ice fortress level back to the hotel. Once they were conscious in the hotel level, they would be susceptible to the kick of the van crashing into the water. There was no kick planned in the airplane, though, meaning that they would have to wait in the van level for the sedative in the airplane to wear off.

Hosts vs. Architects - The architect merely designs the level needed for a mission, but the architect is not necessarily the host. It is implied that the architect, likely through other shared dreams, is able to help the actual host prepare the level he will be hosting. In the mission shown in the movie, Ariadne is not the host to any of the levels. In fact, she wasn't even supposed to go along on the mission, and only insisted on going after seeing just how unstable Cobb was. Yusuf, the chemist, is the host to the van level. (His failure to go the bathroom before getting sedated on the plane is the reason why it is raining in his level.) Arthur, the point man, is the host of the hotel level. Eames, the forger, is the host of the ice fortress level. It is implied that in a layered dreamworld, the host can't go deeper than the world he is hosting. This is why Yusuf goes no deeper than van level, Arthur goes no deeper than the hotel level, and Eames goes no deeper than the ice fortress level. (Note: Arthur is able to use the stair paradox trick in the hotel level because he is that level's host.)

Guests vs. Marks - A guest's subconscious populates a host's dreamworld. Apparently a guest who knows what he or she is doing can control this to an extent, and thus only the mark's subconscious ends up making up the majority of the world's populous. However, if another guest, such as Cobb, has difficulty controlling his subconscious, parts of it, such as Mal, can start to enter the hosted world.

Forgers - A Forger has the ability to alter his or her projection within a level. Weather or not he can do this in a level he is hosting is unknown. What special skills allows a forger to do this is also unknown, but its possible that a forger has developed a very strong control over his subconscious's sense of self. (In the van level, Eames interrupts Arthur's firing of a sub machine gun by telling Arthur that he shouldn't be afraid to dream bigger. Eames then attacks the enemies with a grenade launcher. There are two possible explanations for this... 1. Eames' forger ability allow him to create not just new personae for himself, but also new tools. 2. The teamed worked with the architect to design the van level prior to the mission itself, and it was during this shared dream planning that the various members let the architect know which tools they wanted available in the level. Eame's remark to Arthur was then simply Eame's way of saying to Arthur that next to he plans for a mission, he shouldn't be afraid to tell the architect to give him some truly impressive tools.

Time - Time in a dreamworld moves faster than time in a level above it. In a multi layered dream, this effect compounds. It is stated that under normal circumstances, five minutes in the real world allows for 1 hour in the dream world below. This is a ratio of 1:12. It is also stated that a strong enough sedative can increase this ratio. For the mission, the ratio is said to be 1:20. Thus, one hour on the airplane would be 20 hours in the van level, which in turn would be almost 17 days in the hotel level, and close to one year in the ice fortress level.

Death - Getting killed in a dreamworld typically causes one to awake in the level above where you were killed. However, a strong enough sedative can suppress this feature, and will instead send the individual who died to limbo. During the mission, Saito is shot while in the van level and slowly begins to die. When he enters a lower level, the wound is no longer on his body, however he is still slowly dieing. (He is dying at 1/20th the rate at each subsequent level, due to the time compounding effect.) When Saito finally dies in the van level, his death propagates down through all the levels and he goes to limbo. Normally he would have returned to the airplane, but the strong nature of the sedative prevented that from happening. When Fischer is killed in the ice fortress level, he does not wake up back in the hotel level, because the same strong sedative was used between the hotel level and the ice fortress level.

Limbo - Limbo is an unconstructed dream state of pure subconsciousness. It is apparently very hard for a dreamer to maintain awareness of reality and even self awareness while in limbo. The rate of time in limbo is very unpredictable, and an unprepared dreamer in limbo could find himself stuck there for a near infinite period of time. The only way it is shown to exit limbo is to commit suicide there, or possibly to live long enough in limbo for the sedative to wear off. It is also not clear if someone else can kill you in limbo to set you free, or if you have to choose to kill yourself. It is also implied that limbo is not bound by the normal host/guest rules. Multiple dreamers are apparently able to share a limbo, and with practice are able to both shape limbo to be whatever they want. The movie doesn't give much info on what a truly uncontrolled limbo is like. Its possible that the limbo during the mission would have simply been a jumbled mess of the subconscious of all the members of the shared dream. Cobb, however, has extensive experience shaping and controlling limbo, and thus is able to host limbo, (or at least part of it), as another level beneath the ice fortress level. When he creates this new level, he connects Adaidne and Fischer to himself with a dream machine in the ice fortress level, thus allowing them to be guests in his hosted limbo, and proving the pathway by which to "kick" Fischer back to the ice fortress level. The kicker that Eames uses on Fischer is to shock him with the defibrillator. This apparently provides enough of a shock to the system to trigger a kick. However, since the only way to leave limbo is to die in limbo, Fischer has to jump from the skyscraper when he detects the kick happening. Ariadne in turn has to jump from the sky scraper when she detects that Eames triggers the second kick in the ice fortress level, by imploding the fortress on itself. (When Fischer is "kicked" back to the ice fortress world, his bullet wound is apparently gone. Why this happened it unexplained, however there are several possibilities. 1. The wound was merely a flesh wound that had an unlucky side effect of stopping his heart. 2. Eames, as the host of the level, was able to alter the nature of the wound while Fischer was in limbo. 3. Once Cobb made peace with Mal, the wound she had caused Fischer was undone. 4. The act of dying in Limbo resets Fischer's subconscious self awareness of life and death, and thus when he wakes up from limbo back in the ice fortress level, his subconscious projects a new, non-dead persona of himself. (Note: Cobb, by not committing suicide in limbo, avoided the kick in the ice fortress level. He then spent an unknown amount of time hunting for Saito in limbo. It is implied that this takes many decades since Saito is now an old man, however Cobb is not old, which leads to two possibilities. 1. Limbo moves at a different pace for each person. 2. Cobb, as an experienced dreamer in limbo knew that it was all still just limbo, and this his subconscious didn't age him.) When Cobb finally finds Saito, he hands him a gun and convinces Saito to commit suicide with him, setting them both free from limbo. It is unclear weather or not their subconscious minds cause this event to happen right as the sedative on the airplane is wearing off, or if the suicide sends them to some truly unconscious state that they both wait in unaware until such time as the sedative in the airplane wears off.

Regarding Hosts: This is EXACTLY what I have been saying all along and kept being told that I'm wrong. Host is a much better term for it than "dreamer". It's more like a dungeon master than "everyone is in my dream". So everyone who kept saying "this was so and so's dream" was wrong...they were all sharing a dream, with one person as Host.
 
useful info for the people who have seen the movie. don't read if you havent

Totems - The purpose of a totem is to give you a way to make sure you're not being conned by someone else. In any dreamworld, one person is the host, and everyone else is a subject. The host's mind is responsible for creating the setting and objects in the dream world. The subjects then populate the world with their subconscious. As long as you keep something specific about your totem secret, such as its weight or feel, a host will never be able to recreate it right, and this you can always use your totem as a test to make sure you're not in a deeper level of reality than you think you are.

Kicks - A kick only brings you back to the reality in which it happened, it only reaches one reality deep, and it only affects you if you're conscious in the reality the kick is trying to pull you from. On top of that, it appears that a trained dreamer can resist the effect of a kick to a certain degree based on the severity of the kick and the strength of the sedative used. When layering multiple dreams, multiple kicks are needed to work backwards through the layers. For example, the crashing elevator in the hotel level would pull those in the ice fortress level back to the hotel. Once they were conscious in the hotel level, they would be susceptible to the kick of the van crashing into the water. There was no kick planned in the airplane, though, meaning that they would have to wait in the van level for the sedative in the airplane to wear off.

Hosts vs. Architects - The architect merely designs the level needed for a mission, but the architect is not necessarily the host. It is implied that the architect, likely through other shared dreams, is able to help the actual host prepare the level he will be hosting. In the mission shown in the movie, Ariadne is not the host to any of the levels. In fact, she wasn't even supposed to go along on the mission, and only insisted on going after seeing just how unstable Cobb was. Yusuf, the chemist, is the host to the van level. (His failure to go the bathroom before getting sedated on the plane is the reason why it is raining in his level.) Arthur, the point man, is the host of the hotel level. Eames, the forger, is the host of the ice fortress level. It is implied that in a layered dreamworld, the host can't go deeper than the world he is hosting. This is why Yusuf goes no deeper than van level, Arthur goes no deeper than the hotel level, and Eames goes no deeper than the ice fortress level. (Note: Arthur is able to use the stair paradox trick in the hotel level because he is that level's host.)

Guests vs. Marks - A guest's subconscious populates a host's dreamworld. Apparently a guest who knows what he or she is doing can control this to an extent, and thus only the mark's subconscious ends up making up the majority of the world's populous. However, if another guest, such as Cobb, has difficulty controlling his subconscious, parts of it, such as Mal, can start to enter the hosted world.

Forgers - A Forger has the ability to alter his or her projection within a level. Weather or not he can do this in a level he is hosting is unknown. What special skills allows a forger to do this is also unknown, but its possible that a forger has developed a very strong control over his subconscious's sense of self. (In the van level, Eames interrupts Arthur's firing of a sub machine gun by telling Arthur that he shouldn't be afraid to dream bigger. Eames then attacks the enemies with a grenade launcher. There are two possible explanations for this... 1. Eames' forger ability allow him to create not just new personae for himself, but also new tools. 2. The teamed worked with the architect to design the van level prior to the mission itself, and it was during this shared dream planning that the various members let the architect know which tools they wanted available in the level. Eame's remark to Arthur was then simply Eame's way of saying to Arthur that next to he plans for a mission, he shouldn't be afraid to tell the architect to give him some truly impressive tools.

Time - Time in a dreamworld moves faster than time in a level above it. In a multi layered dream, this effect compounds. It is stated that under normal circumstances, five minutes in the real world allows for 1 hour in the dream world below. This is a ratio of 1:12. It is also stated that a strong enough sedative can increase this ratio. For the mission, the ratio is said to be 1:20. Thus, one hour on the airplane would be 20 hours in the van level, which in turn would be almost 17 days in the hotel level, and close to one year in the ice fortress level.

Death - Getting killed in a dreamworld typically causes one to awake in the level above where you were killed. However, a strong enough sedative can suppress this feature, and will instead send the individual who died to limbo. During the mission, Saito is shot while in the van level and slowly begins to die. When he enters a lower level, the wound is no longer on his body, however he is still slowly dieing. (He is dying at 1/20th the rate at each subsequent level, due to the time compounding effect.) When Saito finally dies in the van level, his death propagates down through all the levels and he goes to limbo. Normally he would have returned to the airplane, but the strong nature of the sedative prevented that from happening. When Fischer is killed in the ice fortress level, he does not wake up back in the hotel level, because the same strong sedative was used between the hotel level and the ice fortress level.

Limbo - Limbo is an unconstructed dream state of pure subconsciousness. It is apparently very hard for a dreamer to maintain awareness of reality and even self awareness while in limbo. The rate of time in limbo is very unpredictable, and an unprepared dreamer in limbo could find himself stuck there for a near infinite period of time. The only way it is shown to exit limbo is to commit suicide there, or possibly to live long enough in limbo for the sedative to wear off. It is also not clear if someone else can kill you in limbo to set you free, or if you have to choose to kill yourself. It is also implied that limbo is not bound by the normal host/guest rules. Multiple dreamers are apparently able to share a limbo, and with practice are able to both shape limbo to be whatever they want. The movie doesn't give much info on what a truly uncontrolled limbo is like. Its possible that the limbo during the mission would have simply been a jumbled mess of the subconscious of all the members of the shared dream. Cobb, however, has extensive experience shaping and controlling limbo, and thus is able to host limbo, (or at least part of it), as another level beneath the ice fortress level. When he creates this new level, he connects Adaidne and Fischer to himself with a dream machine in the ice fortress level, thus allowing them to be guests in his hosted limbo, and proving the pathway by which to "kick" Fischer back to the ice fortress level. The kicker that Eames uses on Fischer is to shock him with the defibrillator. This apparently provides enough of a shock to the system to trigger a kick. However, since the only way to leave limbo is to die in limbo, Fischer has to jump from the skyscraper when he detects the kick happening. Ariadne in turn has to jump from the sky scraper when she detects that Eames triggers the second kick in the ice fortress level, by imploding the fortress on itself. (When Fischer is "kicked" back to the ice fortress world, his bullet wound is apparently gone. Why this happened it unexplained, however there are several possibilities. 1. The wound was merely a flesh wound that had an unlucky side effect of stopping his heart. 2. Eames, as the host of the level, was able to alter the nature of the wound while Fischer was in limbo. 3. Once Cobb made peace with Mal, the wound she had caused Fischer was undone. 4. The act of dying in Limbo resets Fischer's subconscious self awareness of life and death, and thus when he wakes up from limbo back in the ice fortress level, his subconscious projects a new, non-dead persona of himself. (Note: Cobb, by not committing suicide in limbo, avoided the kick in the ice fortress level. He then spent an unknown amount of time hunting for Saito in limbo. It is implied that this takes many decades since Saito is now an old man, however Cobb is not old, which leads to two possibilities. 1. Limbo moves at a different pace for each person. 2. Cobb, as an experienced dreamer in limbo knew that it was all still just limbo, and this his subconscious didn't age him.) When Cobb finally finds Saito, he hands him a gun and convinces Saito to commit suicide with him, setting them both free from limbo. It is unclear weather or not their subconscious minds cause this event to happen right as the sedative on the airplane is wearing off, or if the suicide sends them to some truly unconscious state that they both wait in unaware until such time as the sedative in the airplane wears off.
scanners.gif
 
Regarding Hosts: This is EXACTLY what I have been saying all along and kept being told that I'm wrong. Host is a much better term for it than "dreamer". It's more like a dungeon master than "everyone is in my dream". So everyone who kept saying "this was so and so's dream" was wrong...they were all sharing a dream, with one person as Host.
Yusuf = 1st host
Arthur = 2nd host
Eames = 3rd host
Cobb = 4th host
???? = ????
 
Hold on I need clarification:

I thought the fourth level was limbo and not Cobb's? I know limbo is no one's specidic subconscious, it's just a mixture of what people created being trapped down there, but the only people who were was Cobb and Mal. So when Cobb went to get Fischer he went into the fourth level? I thought that was limbo and when he went to get Saito it was his own limbo that Saito created?
 
Regarding Hosts: This is EXACTLY what I have been saying all along and kept being told that I'm wrong. Host is a much better term for it than "dreamer". It's more like a dungeon master than "everyone is in my dream". So everyone who kept saying "this was so and so's dream" was wrong...they were all sharing a dream, with one person as Host.

No we were not wrong. Heretic seriously it is kinda getting irritating on how no matter what with like 50 people telling you other wise with facts you keep screaming no no no no no.

Now all of sudden some one gives what we were talking about a different name and you say: "Oh yea that's what it is." Give it what ever name you want that is exactly what we were talking about. The host is the one that dreams up the maze. This is still a fact.

Host dreamer same thing the name means nothing it is exactly what Anita myself and many others have been saying again and again.

EDIT: Also I just don't think you were listneing to half of what we said. Yes everyone shares the dream, with one person that dreams up the dreamworld on each level. Call them the host what ever. This is what we were talking about the entire time. Go back read all our posts again.
 
Yusuf = 1st host
Arthur = 2nd host
Eames = 3rd host
Cobb = 4th host
???? = ????
First of all...I think the movie implies (I've only seen it once) that they are at least intending to go to the Limbo realm when they enter 4. I mean, Cillian Murphy had "died" in the previous realm, which should have sent him to Limbo...though I honestly dont recall how Dicaprio and Page went after him. If they just went to sleep again then it seems like what they thought was Limbo was simply a level 4, with Cobb as Host. Not sure why Murphy was there since he surely should have been in Limbo, not realm 4. If they offed themselves then they'd go to Limbo...I dont remember how they made that trip. My mind is blank.

However, Limbo has no Host. It is a blank slate that anyone who is there can create on. When Page and Murphy left what I'll call Limbo 1...it left Dicaprio alone. He drown in level 1...which would have kicked him into Limbo. I actually like how he drown in Level 1, and pulled himself out of the water in Limbo....kind of mixing subconscious events together. Once there, he was in sort of a new Limbo, since Saito had been there for decades creating stuff.

This kind of opens up the thought that maybe their knowledge of the dream world isnt quite what they thought..since they thought they went to Limbo, as deep as it goes, and then went another level down...or sideways actually. Do all of the Limbo's exist in one realm, or do you jump from Limbo to Limbo? How many Limbos are there?? As many as people create? These are questions I think the film doesn't even want to answer. many people want ALL of the answers solved (LOST showed that...) and the fact is that the dream world has existed for as long as there have been dreams...and a 2 hour movie SHOULD NOT be able to definitively answer all of the questions about the realm of dreams. The entirety of human history in a completely unexplored realm of consciousness should not be able to be explained in 2 hours.

Short story long...I don't know the answer to your question...and neither does anyone else (though I'm sure someone will claim they do).
 
Hold on I need clarification:

I thought the fourth level was limbo and not Cobb's? I know limbo is no one's specidic subconscious, it's just a mixture of what people created being trapped down there, but the only people who were was Cobb and Mal. So when Cobb went to get Fischer he went into the fourth level? I thought that was limbo and when he went to get Saito it was his own limbo that Saito created?
I think we're all unclear about what level that is.

Cobb dies in level 1 when he drowns in the van, so he'd be in limbo anyway. That's how he "stays behind" to find Saito, who's doubly died from the gunshot wound in level 1 and drowning in the van. :funny:

I had assumed that Fischer wasn't dead yet, he was quickly dying which is why Eames hooked up the defibrillator to him. If he were already dead, then it would be too late since he'd be in limbo and Cobb would have to kill himself to get there. Cobb says they don't have enough time to revive him and finish the job before the final kick, but Ariadne says they do because she's good at math. :oldrazz:

My reasoning is that Cobb's level (the fourth one where Fischer is) looks like the limbo he built with Mal because he can't really dream anymore - he can only build dreams from his memory and that's the deepest subconscious he has.
 

each layer had a host but i was confused as to whether ariadne or cobb was the last host . i also assume there is no host in limbo because there is no control or structure.


 
No we were not wrong. Heretic seriously it is kinda getting irritating on how no matter what with like 50 people telling you other wise with facts you keep screaming no no no no no.

Now all of sudden some one gives what we were talking about a different name and you say: "Oh yea that's what it is." Give it what ever name you want that is exactly what we were talking about. The host is the one that dreams up the maze. This is still a fact.

Host dreamer same thing the name means nothing it is exactly what Anita myself and many others have been saying again and again.

EDIT: Also I just don't think you were listneing to half of what we said. Yes everyone shares the dream, with one person that dreams up the dreamworld on each level. Call them the host what ever. This is what we were talking about the entire time. Go back read all our posts again.

And it is even more annoying that I was being told I was wrong all night simply because I didnt like the term "dreamer". The fact is that you ignored everything except the term dreamer and clung to it like your life depende on it...meanwhile I was the one who kept saying that other people than the dreamer could impact things, and the "dreamers" clearly were not impacting things as they could...and you gusy just brushed it off.

We're you right? Sure. Was I right? Absolutely. You simply want to give more power to one person that I do. They were not all sharing the Hosts dream. They were sharing the dream that the architect fed into the Host. Very slight difference that I am STILL being torn apart for...and yet Im still correct about.
 
Ding ding ding... let round 2 begin. Let's go to 5 AM tonight... :woot:
 
so why do you think nolan didn't push the 'wacky' nature of dream world more?


i don't know what you mean by wacky , part of it is that if you flip things too much the subconscious notices your presence and attacks. if this were my dream world
cobbs would of been killed by a werewolf and nobody would be able to piece anything together , it would be too chaotic .
 
Potential box office boost with a new demographic?

Nick Jonas via twitter said:
Just saw "Inception"... Wow. That was incredible.

:woot:
 
And it is even more annoying that I was being told I was wrong all night simply because I didnt like the term "dreamer". The fact is that you ignored everything except the term dreamer and clung to it like your life depende on it...meanwhile I was the one who kept saying that other people than the dreamer could impact things, and the "dreamers" clearly were not impacting things as they could...and you gusy just brushed it off.

We're you right? Sure. Was I right? Absolutely. You simply want to give more power to one person that I do. They were not all sharing the Hosts dream. They were sharing the dream that the architect fed into the Host. Very slight difference that I am STILL being torn apart for...and yet Im still correct about.

I said the same thing pages back.

Ariadne designs the dreams, and feeds them while designing them with the "hosts". She feeds them into them practicing. Then when the heist starts the architect is not required. She was not suppose to go but begged to because of Mal/Cobb ordeal.

And we were not getting hung up on names. But I never thought the name mattered. If it does to you that's fine. I don't mind what it's called but Anita and I and some others were saying exactly what that post said about the Host.

But maybe our communication was just not the best I dunno.
 
Ding ding ding... let round 2 begin. Let's go to 5 AM tonight... :woot:

LOL it would kill me if I stayed super late going into it again lol.

Potential box office boost with a new demographic?



:woot:

LOL, doubt it but would be interesting to see that demographic watching this movie. What is their demographic like 10 year old girls? lol.
 
okay, here's the difference;

neo is walking down the street with neo, neo looks at the girl with the red dress, next scene agent smith is pointing a gun at neo's head.
1 scene showed the audience that agents can jump into anybody.

the matrix SHOWED the new concepts visually, inception 'EXPLAINED the new concept verbally

every second spent explaining the concept is a second taken away from character developement

edit: Sorry Spider-neil, I was catching up on the pages and should have known people would have already commented on this specific post of yours.

Over the years i've seen numerous heist films and to be honest, I don't remember the majority of them giving much of the supporting cast character development either. Usually it focuses it's story or any background info on the leader and maybe someone else really close to him.

I'm not saying that that means people have to let that criticism slide but a lot of the critics who also didn't like the supporting characters not having development either haven't seen many heist films of the past or it's just been that long and they can't remember. Yes, the movie could have been that much better if they were given more development but this film was mainly about Cobb's journey to get back to his kids.

As for your example with The Matrix showing instead of telling, that's not accurate. For most of the scenes where Neo was learning, he had Morpheus there to verbally explain everything. That specific scene you pointed out, right after Neo looks back and it's an agent about to fire his gun, Morpheus tells them to freeze the program and then begins to explain it all to Neo...and the viewers of course. "Inside the Matrix, they are everyone and they are no one".
 
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