BvS City Battles in BVS.

[Zionite1]

I liked the film, and I still agree something was missing at the end. It didn't help that the climax didn't feel like a climax, and it was cut short.

Something cool would've been Superman stepping out of the train station, realizing how much damage has been caused and how many lives he failed to save. He thinks he's failed and, for a moment, decides to flee, afraid of what people will think of him.

But he remembers Pa Kent's words about "standing proud in front of the human race" and decides to stay, and what would follow is a montage of Superman helping and directing medical teams and fire trucks, helping construction teams rebuild, and news reports covering his efforts. Slowly, we see Metropolis become whole again. And as things get brighter, segue into the scene with Swanwick.

Something like that would've been an uplifting way to conclude it. It's a rare thing to see superheroes help civilians pick up the mess - The Avengers sure has hell didn't. Seeing Superman do something like that would be great in BvS.

that truly would have been beautiful and would have singlehandedly ended all complaints

 

[king666]

Honestly, I would love to watch another city battle. But this time I want to see Superman absolutely desperate, trying to save everyone (and succeeding to do so) while also fighting the villain.

 

[ЯɘvlveR]

I liked the film, and I still agree something was missing at the end. It didn't help that the climax didn't feel like a climax, and it was cut short.

Something cool would've been Superman stepping out of the train station, realizing how much damage has been caused and how many lives he failed to save. He thinks he's failed and, for a moment, decides to flee, afraid of what people will think of him.

But he remembers Pa Kent's words about "standing proud in front of the human race" and decides to stay, and what would follow is a montage of Superman helping and directing medical teams and fire trucks, helping construction teams rebuild, and news reports covering his efforts. Slowly, we see Metropolis become whole again. And as things get brighter, segue into the scene with Swanwick.

Something like that would've been an uplifting way to conclude it. It's a rare thing to see superheroes help civilians pick up the mess - The Avengers sure has hell didn't. Seeing Superman do something like that would be great in BvS.

exactly this.

 

[Flint Marko]

If MOS2 was the original plan, which I believe it was, then Snyder still could have planned on addressing the collateral damage in MOS2, instead of BvS.

Who knows what the Snyder's intention was? Nobody on these boards. But controversy creates interest. And to have fans STILL talking passionately on both sides about a superhero movie from last year means Snyder won, even if he didn't plan it this way.

And yes, I def believe that the fun comedic light tone over at Marvel (movies I love, btw) prevented a similar backlash for Marvel movies. Quips keep even the darkest hour fun!

Well, the only reason we are still talking about MoS is because it's the first movie in the pipeline for a DCCU. Not to mention it's the second on screen iteration of Superman in twenty years. Also the reception was so divided which shows that half of us talking about it are picking apart it's flaws. So I wouldn't exactly hand it to Snyder for getting us talking, it's more due to the situation the movie finds itself in. Once again, when BvS comes out all talking about Man of Steel will dramatically decrease.
And I don't think the backlash is present in regards to Marvel's films simply because Marvel hasn't displayed destruction in such an over the top, indulgent way. The closest they got in any movie was the Avengers, in which case they addressed both containing the fight and the casualties/consequences of such a battle in NYC. If they had just moved on so callously and quickly I'm sure it would be a point of contention, no matter how many jokes were thrown in.

 

[Bwahaha!]

Well, the only reason we are still talking about MoS is because it's the first movie in the pipeline for a DCCU. Not to mention it's the second on screen iteration of Superman in twenty years. Also the reception was so divided which shows that half of us talking about it are picking apart it's flaws. So I wouldn't exactly hand it to Snyder for getting us talking, it's more due to the situation the movie finds itself in. Once again, when BvS comes out all talking about Man of Steel will dramatically decrease.
And I don't think the backlash is present in regards to Marvel's films simply because Marvel hasn't displayed destruction in such an over the top, indulgent way. The closest they got in any movie was the Avengers, in which case they addressed both containing the fight and the casualties/consequences of such a battle in NYC. If they had just moved on so callously and quickly I'm sure it would be a point of contention, no matter how many jokes were thrown in.

The phenomenal sales of the MOS blu-ray (phenomenal even when compared to Marvel blu-ray sales) seems to indicate that people actually wanted to own the movie, even if the citywide destruction turned them off. So I still say Snyder won.

I think we'll have to agree to disagree. Because I totally believe MOS's serious tone played a big role in the debate about collateral damage. I even remember reading an article where the author basically tracked loss of life/property between MOS and Avengers and there was no huge difference. And there were multiple Avengers fighting, MOS only had Superman. Why couldn't all those Avengers do more? <--something you never read on the boards.

And btw, the scenes that came after the Zod fight, where SM told the military they wouldn't find where he hung his cape, and then the Daily Planet scene that ends with Clark smiling...well, it just seemed obvious to me that those scenes didn't occur the day after the destruction. I always thought several months had passed (no damage to Daily Planet, so time had passed for repairs)...and even after the real life tragedy of 9-11, it's safe to say that New Yorkers were laughing and smiling a month or two later. We might have even found some being happy two weeks later. Even after great suffering, we have to find a way to move on, or be hopelessly stuck in the chaos-riddled past.

 

[Flint Marko]

The phenomenal sales of the MOS blu-ray (phenomenal even when compared to Marvel blu-ray sales) seems to indicate that people actually wanted to own the movie, even if the citywide destruction turned them off. So I still say Snyder won.

I think we'll have to agree to disagree. Because I totally believe MOS's serious tone played a big role in the debate about collateral damage. I even remember reading an article where the author basically tracked loss of life/property between MOS and Avengers and there was no huge difference. And there were multiple Avengers fighting, MOS only had Superman. Why couldn't all those Avengers do more? <--something you never read on the boards.

Once again, the Avengers attempted to keep the fight within a three block radius. Iron Man patrolled the perimeter and tried to contain everything escaping, while Thor did his best to contain the portal. You also saw Cap, Hawkeye, and a few others getting civilians out of harm's way. That is why there is no complaining of wanton, thoughtless destruction. Not to mention that they were all fighting hundreds of alien creatures, which would require more thought and control than fighting just one guy.
Nothing like that was present in MoS; at no point did we get the idea that he was trying to contain the fight or tone down the casualties. The tone played little to no part in that.

And btw, the scenes that came after the Zod fight, where SM told the military they wouldn't find where he hung his cape, and then the Daily Planet scene that ends with Clark smiling...well, it just seemed obvious to me that those scenes didn't occur the day after the destruction. I always thought several months had passed (no damage to Daily Planet, so time had passed for repairs)...and even after the real life tragedy of 9-11, it's safe to say that New Yorkers were laughing and smiling a month or two later. We might have even found some being happy two weeks later. Even after great suffering, we have to find a way to move on, or be hopelessly stuck in the chaos-riddled past.

No one will argue that was obviously quite some time later. But that doesn't change the fact that they just brisked past the consequences; if anything that makes it worse, because we are just to assume everything moved on as normal despite the fact that several city blocks were leveled and a lot of people lost their lives. There was no mourning, no dwelling on the repercussions of what just happened. Superman screams and hugs Lois, and then here we are a few weeks or months later and he's destroying more government property and smarting off to a military officer. It was an awkward, haphazard transition that should have been fixed.

 

[kguillou]

I'm very very curious how Batman and Supes' showdown is going to be staged. I would think that a seasoned vet like Batman wouldn't want to engage Superman in the middle of Metropolis but if they really are going for the Frank Miller vibe then maybe he won't really care. lol

 

[John-An]

If you address the devastation and loss in some form or fashion (like instructing those involved to keep it within a three block radius, or a candle-light vigil/monument honoring the dead after its all over), you're free to show as much calamity as you want without anyone complaining.

Or having shawarma at the end... yeah... If I think like you of course I can say the point was that the invasion was really fast and you know a REAL THREAT was from MOS, not 2 hours of punching and killing 3 billions of alliens that his function was to be punchbags and those fight vs 6 heroes that have plenty of time to back up and plan but yeah that's a big threat
And yeah you can be devastating the city, but if is made up with jokes because yeah adding funny things or worshipping heroes that they haven't even know and then they have merchandishing? yeah is very factual And yeah wanting Superman to do everything because he needs to plan, to do multiple tasks and at the same time dealing with a pretty fast happening invasion. He's not the omnipresent robot some were used to that could do anything perfectly and nothing bad happens on his sight, that were 30 years ago.. geez.

Some people need to understand that not everything are jokes, happy times, and no casualties especially if you're talking about a grounded and relatable universe with an ALIEN INVASION!


And you need to see the AoU trailer to see if that action is inspired in the MCU or in some movie that you're bashing... lol... No but now that Avengers is doing then they can worship them.....Hyperbole coming...

BTW you forgot to add in your post... Marvel rules.

 

[AnneFan]

Team don't care as long as it's done right.

 

[Nemeres]

Or having shawarma at the end... yeah... If I think like you and of course not to mention the point was that the invasion was really fast and you know a REAL THREAT not 2 hours of punching and killing 3 billions of alliens vs 6 heroes that have plenty of time to back up and plan yeah that's a big threat
And yeah you can be devastating the city, but if is made up with jokes because yeah adding funny things or worshipping heroes that they haven't even know and then they have merchandishing? yeah is very factual

And you need to see the AoU trailer to see if that action is inspired in the MCU or in some movie that you're bashing... lol... No but now that Avengers is doing then they can worship them.....Hyperbole coming...

BTW you forgot to add in your post... Marvel rules.

You sound like you're fuming more than laughing.

 

[Flint Marko]

Or having shawarma at the end... yeah... If I think like you and of course not to mention the point was that the invasion was really fast and you know a REAL THREAT not 2 hours of punching and killing 3 billions of alliens vs 6 heroes that have plenty of time to back up and plan yeah that's a big threat
And yeah you can be devastating the city, but if is made up with jokes because yeah adding funny things or worshipping heroes that they haven't even know and then they have merchandishing? yeah is very factual

And you need to see the AoU trailer to see if that action is inspired in the MCU or in some movie that you're bashing... lol... No but now that Avengers is doing then they can worship them.....Hyperbole coming...

BTW you forgot to add in your post... Marvel rules.

I'm not trying to sound rude but it's tough piecing together what you are trying to say.
The shawarma scene (an inconsequential post-credits stinger that lasted all of ten seconds) did nothing to take away the fact that you saw people's reactions to the devastation, monuments made to those who lost their lives, etc. The fallout was actually addressed, whereas in MoS that wasn't present and it would have helped the movie out a lot. Also the Avengers made an effort to keep the damage to a minimal, while Superman punched Zod through buildings on multiple occasions with little to no effort to contain the fight. I get that he hasn't really used his powers at that scale before, but Superman should have made an effort at some point to calm the fight down. The film makers should have shown him going out of his way to save people while fighting, or clean up in the aftermath but no, none of that happened which is where the complaints arise. What am I missing here, is that not true?
No idea what you're talking about with AoU either, your post isn't very legible.

 

[Bwahaha!]

Once again, the Avengers attempted to keep the fight within a three block radius. Iron Man patrolled the perimeter and tried to contain everything escaping, while Thor did his best to contain the portal. You also saw Cap, Hawkeye, and a few others getting civilians out of harm's way.

SM absolutely deserves a break for being so green. As for Avengers, must be nice to have all those seasoned heroes against Thor's adopted ornery brother. Lol. Let's wait for Justice League and find out how DC's A-team stack up against whatever big bad they're facing...and how the League uses strategic maneuvers to minimize collateral damage.

No one will argue that was obviously quite some time later. But that doesn't change the fact that they just brisked past the consequences; if anything that makes it worse, because we are just to assume everything moved on as normal despite the fact that several city blocks were leveled and a lot of people lost their lives. There was no mourning, no dwelling on the repercussions of what just happened. Superman screams and hugs Lois, and then here we are a few weeks or months later and he's destroying more government property and smarting off to a military officer. It was an awkward, haphazard transition that should have been fixed.

Actually I agree that a brief mourning scene would've been appropriate in MOS. But I and many others read between the lines and knew Clark had surely mourned for Metropolis. I mean, c'mon! In fact, I never thought his piercing scream was just for Zod but for everything that had just happened.

Anyway, trust me the fact we are discussing all this now is music to Snyder's ears. Plus, from the leaked set photos it's obvious the tragedy will be overtly addressed in BvS. So what you're trying to claim re SM not caring about what happened (because, there he goes again, destroying Govt property, lol) is gonna be debunked in March 2016.

Last, your attempt to make it seem like MOS was so fatally flawed that it needed fixing was disproven when it became a hit on blu-ray. Why would all those people want to own such a terribly divisive and poorly executed movie? And let's not forget that in theaters it was Top 5 domestic for the entire year and Top 10 internationally. It was a genuine box office hit and if memory serves, was more successful than Marvel's initial movie(s) that launched its verse in phase one. And SM had an uphill battle, not being relevant anymore and coming off the heels of a boring badly received reboot (SM Returns).

 

[Flint Marko]

SM absolutely deserves a break for being so green. As for Avengers, must be nice to have all those seasoned heroes against Thor's adopted ornery brother. Lol. Let's wait for Justice League and find out how DC's A-team stack up against whatever big bad they're facing...and how the League uses strategic maneuvers to minimize collateral damage.

Once again, something, anything to show that Superman is trying his best to minimize the destruction would have been fine. Instead we got absolutely nothing. I don't see how you can make excuses for that.

Actually I agree that a brief mourning scene would've been appropriate in MOS. But I and many others read between the lines and knew Clark had surely mourned for Metropolis. I mean, c'mon! In fact, I never thought his piercing scream was just for Zod but for everything that had just happened.

You really think that's enough? Once again, completely unsatisfactory.

Anyway, trust me the fact we are discussing all this now is music to Snyder's ears. Plus, from the leaked set photos it's obvious the tragedy will be overtly addressed in BvS. So what you're trying to claim re SM not caring about what happened (because, there he goes again, destroying Govt property, lol) is gonna be debunked in March 2016.

Last, your attempt to make it seem like MOS was so fatally flawed that it needed fixing was disproven when it became a hit on blu-ray. Why would all those people want to own such a terribly divisive and poorly executed movie? And let's not forget that in theaters it was Top 5 domestic for the entire year and Top 10 internationally. It was a genuine box office hit and if memory serves, was more successful than Marvel's initial movie(s) that launched its verse in phase one. And SM had an uphill battle, not being relevant anymore and coming off the heels of a boring badly received reboot (SM Returns).

The home media thing is such an "also-ran" argument. To put it in perspective, Transformers: Dark of the Moon and Revenge of the Fallen are in the top 30 most bought blu rays of all time (19 and 27 respectively). Why would people want to own such a poorly executed movie? I don't know, but they do.
If his movie had been better it would have gotten better word-of-mouth and grossed more money while in theaters. Instead it was divisive and fell short of WB's expectations. Yes it still made a profit, yes it was still a hit, but so was ASM 2 from a financial standpoint.
And Superman is arguably the world's most iconic superhero, let's not pretend that he'd ever have an uphill battle to face when trying to get meat in the seats for his films. His movie was obviously more successful than Marvel's initial movies because no one knew or cared who Thor or Iron Man or Captain America was. It's obvious Superman would make more out of the gate.
Superman Returns was 6 years ago, which is a lifetime in Hollywood terms. That movies supposed "failure" (it had a decent box office return and good critical reviews) did nothing to hinder this movie.

 

[Whiskey Tango]

Giant city fights aren't the problem. Ignoring the immense devastation and loss of human life by quickly cutting to a scene of superman smarting off to a general was what rubbed a lot of people the wrong way.

What if instead there was immense devastation and loss of human life, and then we quickly cut away to a scene of Batman breaking the kneecaps of a crazed Shia LaBeouf?

 

[Bwahaha!]

Flint Marco, I stand behind everything I've said. And I don't see the point in further debating you, it's obvious by your signature that you have a marvelous agenda.

 

[Naked Shia]

Once again, the Avengers attempted to keep the fight within a three block radius. Iron Man patrolled the perimeter and tried to contain everything escaping, while Thor did his best to contain the portal. You also saw Cap, Hawkeye, and a few others getting civilians out of harm's way. That is why there is no complaining of wanton, thoughtless destruction. Not to mention that they were all fighting hundreds of alien creatures, which would require more thought and control than fighting just one guy.
Nothing like that was present in MoS; at no point did we get the idea that he was trying to contain the fight or tone down the casualties. The tone played little to no part in that.

This isn't true. He did try to send Zod in space and fight him there (this is the scene with the wayne satellite), but most people seem to forget that scene sadly.

 

[matt47]

This isn't true. He did try to send Zod in space and fight him there (this is the scene with the wayne satellite), but most people seem to forget that scene sadly.

People seem to forget a lot out of Man of Steel..

 

[matt47]

Once again, the Avengers attempted to keep the fight within a three block radius. Iron Man patrolled the perimeter and tried to contain everything escaping, while Thor did his best to contain the portal. You also saw Cap, Hawkeye, and a few others getting civilians out of harm's way. That is why there is no complaining of wanton, thoughtless destruction. Not to mention that they were all fighting hundreds of alien creatures, which would require more thought and control than fighting just one guy.
Nothing like that was present in MoS; at no point did we get the idea that he was trying to contain the fight or tone down the casualties. The tone played little to no part in that.

Don't you effing dare compare those Chitauri to the Kryptonians, the Chitauri were absolutely no one near as strong/smart as the Kryptonians. The Chitauri could be taken down by arrows, they were basically a human race with advanced weaponry. Also, there mission was to take hostages, where the Kryptonians mission was to terraform earth and kill all the humans and Kal.

"at no point did we get the idea that he was trying to contain the fight or tone down the casualties."
Let me just get this quote from Superman...,"If I don't get over to the Indian Ocean, the gravity bean will continue to expand." He specifically said that his part of the plan was to stop the world engine.
He was the ONLY one on earth that could stop the world engine, which he did, saving millions.

 

[Naked Shia]

don't you dare sayi the Man of Murder saved people!

 

[matt47]

 

[kguillou]

Once again, the Avengers attempted to keep the fight within a three block radius. Iron Man patrolled the perimeter and tried to contain everything escaping, while Thor did his best to contain the portal. You also saw Cap, Hawkeye, and a few others getting civilians out of harm's way. That is why there is no complaining of wanton, thoughtless destruction. Not to mention that they were all fighting hundreds of alien creatures, which would require more thought and control than fighting just one guy.
Nothing like that was present in MoS; at no point did we get the idea that he was trying to contain the fight or tone down the casualties. The tone played little to no part in that.

Don't you effing dare compare those Chitauri to the Kryptonians, the Chitauri were absolutely no one near as strong/smart as the Kryptonians. The Chitauri could be taken down by arrows, they were basically a human race with advanced weaponry. Also, there mission was to take hostages, where the Kryptonians mission was to terraform earth and kill all the humans and Kal.

"at no point did we get the idea that he was trying to contain the fight or tone down the casualties."
Let me just get this quote from Superman...,"If I don't get over to the Indian Ocean, the gravity bean will continue to expand." He specifically said that his part of the plan was to stop the world engine.
He was the ONLY one on earth that could stop the world engine, which he did, saving millions.

^^THIS. THANK you for bringing this up. I dont understand what people were expecting Clark to do. He needed to first and foremost stop the gravity beam otherwise the planet wouldve been completely doomed. Secondly, once that was done he had to fight an enraged Kryptonian gemeral who completely outclassed him im combat and somehow find a way to stop him from destroying the planet.

Also, I love how people coveniently forget how in the battle of Smallville, while he was fighting TWO incredibly powerful Kryptonian warriors, he WENT OUT OF HIS WAY to save a soldier from falling to his death...you know, the same people who were shooting at him just moments earlier. But no, this superman just murders people and doesnt give a crap about anyone.

 

[Naked Shia]

he's not called murderman without a reason!

 

[the last son]

Zod punched Superman into space. Superman didn't take it there

 

[blumatic]

Superman didn't punch Zod through buildings. Where are people getting this from. He did put Zods face through some Windows of one building. Zod was winning most of that fight.

 

[Flint Marko]

Flint Marco, I stand behind everything I've said. And I don't see the point in further debating you, it's obvious by your signature that you have a marvelous agenda.

I believe this is called an ad hominem. Instead of addressing my points you try to discredit me by pointing out personal traits.

This isn't true. He did try to send Zod in space and fight him there (this is the scene with the wayne satellite), but most people seem to forget that scene sadly.

Go watch that scene again. It's Zod who brings Superman up into space; he throws him through several buildings, we get that shot of Superman floating upside down in the air for a brief moment, and then Zod rams into him and brings up into the atmosphere. People "forget" that scene in this regard because it isn't an example of Superman trying to not be wreckless.
Here's a youtube clip:[YT]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OMKsuA4Bi-c[/YT]
Go to 1:28 to see what I mean.

Don't you effing dare compare those Chitauri to the Kryptonians, the Chitauri were absolutely no one near as strong/smart as the Kryptonians. The Chitauri could be taken down by arrows, they were basically a human race with advanced weaponry. Also, there mission was to take hostages, where the Kryptonians mission was to terraform earth and kill all the humans and Kal.

"at no point did we get the idea that he was trying to contain the fight or tone down the casualties."
Let me just get this quote from Superman...,"If I don't get over to the Indian Ocean, the gravity bean will continue to expand." He specifically said that his part of the plan was to stop the world engine.
He was the ONLY one on earth that could stop the world engine, which he did, saving millions.

There were hundreds of Chitauri compared to a handful of Kryptonians. Yes the Chitauri weren't as powerful obviously, but there were literally hundreds of them (not to mention those monster worm things) so I don't see how it isn't comparable. I also don't think the Chitauri's mission is ever clearly stated, so I'm not sure where this idea comes from that they were just taking hostages.
Yes, he clearly saved millions of people by doing what he did, I'm not saying he didn't save the day and I'm certainly not calling him "murder man". However, my point stands that he was reckless and at no point did the film make it seem like he was either trying to contain the collateral damage or trying to help in the aftermath. Any sort of scene showing the consequences/fallout of him leveling a part of Metropolis would have been nice, but as I said, it then cuts to a scene of him destroying more property and smarting off to a military official.
I sound like a broken record here because I keep saying the same things over and over again, but they are valid criticisms whether some of you like it or not.
The whole point of this thread is whether or not we want another big city battle scene, in which I'd say "only if it was handled correctly". I don't want to see another supposed "realistic, grounded" fight that does nothing to show the consequences/effects of such a battle.