Cloud Atlas

[Matt Mortem]

This is my favorite film this year. I saw it a 2nd time today and loved it even more. I guess I can understand it's not for everyone.

For those who saw it did you have have a favorite section? I think mine was the Somni 451 but The Fall one comes close too.

My favorite is probably a tie between Frobisher's story and Sonmi 451.

 

[redhawk23]

So I've heard some reports of the Wachowski's logic for the way Hanks was cast, and I actually quite like it though I don't think I would have ever figured it out.

The echo of Hanks character through history is a fairly terrible person in almost all of the stories.

The poisonous Dr. on the boat, the Cockney brawler even when he's just playing the front desk worker in the hotel in the Frobisher story he acts only to fulfill his covetous nature.

In the 70s story he's playing a scientist who is doing some work for some fairly greedy evil people who want to purposely cause a nuclear accident. He knows this is the case, but was getting ready to pick up and leave without doing anything about it.

Until he meets Halle Berry. As he describes, he feels a connection to her that he can't explain. She inspires him to help her take action against the conspiring company. Unfortunately, the company has him killed shortly after.

In the 2012 story line, Hanks character, having never crossed paths with an iteration of Halle Berry, is back to being a crappy self centered person.

In the final story line, 100 winters after the fall, the echo of Hanks has been through a journey rather than just being reiterated in each life. There has been some change, possibly linked with the brief connections with Halle Berry. He is no longer the manipulating lunacy of the 19th century ships doctor. He is still quite conflicted, struggling with the darker, self centered and self doubting aspect of himself. This aspect is personified by the weird Hugo Weaving imp.

Hanks once again meets Barry and in this life, they are able to make a stronger connection and the interaction allows Hanks to finally overcome the struggle with the darker parts of his soul.

 

[Matt Mortem]

So I've heard some reports of the Wachowski's logic for the way Hanks was cast, and I actually quite like it though I don't think I would have ever figured it out.

The echo of Hanks character through history is a fairly terrible person in almost all of the stories.

The poisonous Dr. on the boat, the Cockney brawler even when he's just playing the front desk worker in the hotel in the Frobisher story he acts only to fulfill his covetous nature.

In the 70s story he's playing a scientist who is doing some work for some fairly greedy evil people who want to purposely cause a nuclear accident. He knows this is the case, but was getting ready to pick up and leave without doing anything about it.

Until he meets Halle Berry. As he describes, he feels a connection to her that he can't explain. She inspires him to help her take action against the conspiring company. Unfortunately, the company has him killed shortly after.

In the 2012 story line, Hanks character, having never crossed paths with an iteration of Halle Berry, is back to being a crappy self centered person.

In the final story line, 100 winters after the fall, the echo of Hanks has been through a journey rather than just being reiterated in each life. There has been some change, possibly linked with the brief connections with Halle Berry. He is no longer the manipulating lunacy of the 19th century ships doctor. He is still quite conflicted, struggling with the darker, self centered and self doubting aspect of himself. This aspect is personified by the weird Hugo Weaving imp.

Hanks once again meets Barry and in this life, they are able to make a stronger connection and the interaction allows Hanks to finally overcome the struggle with the darker parts of his soul.

That's the conclusion I drew from Hanks various roles. It took some thinking to piece together, but I kind of like those character archs, looking back on it. It makes sense once you lay everything out like that.

 

[redhawk23]

At the same time they admit though that much of Hank's casting was just the result of Hanks really wanting to be in as many of the stories as he could. So take that for what you will.

 

[addison81]

Yeah I like how that's laid out. I think ill notice something new every time I watch this film.

And in the 2012 story Hanks has a glance at Berry's character and it feels like for a moment they have a connection.

 

[Poeman]

I have to ask....what was Hugo Weaving like as a woman?

Amazing, I bet Hugo enjoyed working on this film.

 

[Sloth7d]

and a cheesy message that should only be profound to Jr. High Schoolers.

So, how was the Hunger Games?

 

[Pink Ranger]

I finally got to see it; I found it quite entertaining, and I almost didn't notice the 3 hours passing by (which I even can't say for return of the king).

Not sure if this movie is Oscar worthy though, will have to ruminate on that.

 

[I SEE SPIDEY]

So, how was the Hunger Games?

It's on DVD for you to see and judge for yourself, obviously I really liked it and so did a lot of other people.

How was Star Wars, Indiana Jones, Batman, X-Men, Harry Potter, Prometheus, Avengers and all the other kids movies on these boards that we all pretend aren't kids films, in your opinion?

It's cute that you are mad at my review of this box office, audience and crtical failure. Most importantly though, it failed as a movie in my eyes. It's real shame that the W-siblings haven't made a good film since 1999.

 

[Matt Mortem]

It's cute that you are mad at my review of this box office, audience and crtical failure.

It's not doing great at the box office, but I wouldn't call it a failure with the critics and audiences. It's got a 63% critic approval rating and a 76% audience approval on RT. Not what I would call a failure at all. It's not getting rave reviews, but to call it a failure is a little hyperbolic, don't you think?

How was Star Wars, Indiana Jones, Batman, X-Men, Harry Potter, Prometheus, Avengers and all the other kids movies on these boards that we all pretend aren't kids films, in your opinion?

Also, in what world is Prometheus meant as a kids movie?

 

[Tanin]

It's on DVD for you to see and judge for yourself, obviously I really liked it and so did a lot of other people.

How was Star Wars, Indiana Jones, Batman, X-Men, Harry Potter, Prometheus, Avengers and all the other kids movies on these boards that we all pretend aren't kids films, in your opinion?

It's cute that you are mad at my review of this box office, audience and crtical failure. Most importantly though, it failed as a movie in my eyes. It's real shame that the W-siblings haven't made a good film since 1999.

I can understand all the others.... but how is Prometheus a kid's film?

 

[Doctor Jones]

I knew what the point of the film was because the movie constantly screamed out what the point was. I still don't like yellow face or black face because of the history of it and frankly the make up was horrible any how. It was horrible and unconvicing on Berry, Hanks Strugess and Bae. There is only racist hurtful history associated with yellow face and black face and probably jewish face too. So for the record I don't approve of any of them. I wonder why they chickened out on say putting Hanks and Strugess in black face make-up? hmmm one wonders..

I'm happy to read you guys opinion though as everyone is entitled to theirs. I wasn't trying to covince anyone of anything, I was merely stating that I was disgusted by the yellow face make-up. If you guys weren't offended, fair enough but I was.

Honestly, I don't get how this is a problem since one of the Wachowski's had a sex change and seems to be ok with these ideas. Not to mention you had actors who agreed to play and knew what some of their parts entailed. Plus I doubt they went out of their way to be racist in their ideas with this. If the make up is bad because it comes off as racist, it would have to be done with racist intent which isnt the case at all. I thought the idea was to show that we are all the same no matter what race or ethnicity? Despite your opinion on the presentation, that isn't racist at all. That's just simply bad make up and presentatIon, not racism.

 

[I SEE SPIDEY]

It's not doing great at the box office, but I wouldn't call it a failure with the critics and audiences. It's got a 63% critic approval rating and a 76% audience approval on RT. Not what I would call a failure at all. It's not getting rave reviews, but to call it a failure is a little hyperbolic, don't you think.

That website's so called audience reviews are almost always positive and it's directed towards people who will like the type of film Cloud Atlas is more than the general public. The movie might be a hit overseas for all I know but it bombed hard in North America. And the audience has shown that they don't love it very much like fanboys and fanboy critics do. If they did it would be heading for an Argo style drop this weekend and it is not.

I'm not saying that anyone on here or anywhere can't proclaim it the greatest most original film of all time but the majority don't see it that way. The W-siblings got their movie made and they like it so I don't think that they should care about the reception but the reception is what it is. Hell, I loved Drive (it was the best movie of last year IMO) but the audience didn't love it nearly as much as I did at all. And unlike people on these boards I'm not going to pretend like they did to make myself feel better and I try not to throw out the constant and tired "every movie I loved is going to be seen as a classic!" cry that fanboys love doing on here.

I'm happy for the people who loved Atlas and don't have a problem with the yellow face. Watch the movie to your hearts content but I'm not going to be bullied (it's just a word, you guys obviously aren't bulling me) into liking or accepting the yellow face or any of the other make-up. Saying that the sex change of one of the directors nullifies my complaint about the asian make-up is kinda like saying that Strom Thurman wasn't racist because he had sex with a black teenage female. I'm not even calling the W-siblings racist per se anyway.

 

[redhawk23]

I see spidey, people disagreed with on the effect or the intent of the makeup. They expressed their disagreement. How is this a problem?


But honestly, how is the "yellowface" different from Halle Berry playing a white Jewish woman or Bae as a ginger? I understand that this films use of non Asian actors to play Asians arguably fits into a longer trend of films doing so, but the makeup use has to be taken into consideration with in the context of the film itself which used makeup along many different racial and gender lines.

 

[Pink Ranger]

I'm Asian (Chinese) and have been a vocal critic of whitewashed and yellowfaced casting in the past, so I'll weigh on this, though I don't think it's entirely relevant to this movie, which I generally liked.

A performer playing against race is not necessarily whitewashing or yellowfacing. It is not racist that most of the women to portray Turandot or Coco San have been 400-pound European women (you could make an argument about the exoticistic content of the operas themselves, but that's for another day). I have been to ballets like Swan Lake where the roles of European mythical persons have been portrayed by male and female dancers that were Asian.

That's where I feel Cloud Atlas lies. The film is highly representational and allegorical, it's almost like you're watching a play with a small repertory cast that hurries backstage to change into different costumes after each act. The race issues are meant to screw with your perceptions.

This film reminds me of an excellent Canadian film called "Lilies" from a while back. All the roles, male and female, are played by men, particularly a muscular black guy who portrays a flamboyant French widow. It's because the film is representational and is a story-within-a-story (taking place in a men's prison) and I feel Cloud Atlas is in that spirit.

Yellowfacing and whitewashing is often used in films that are more literal in representation. Mickey Rooney was literally portraying a Japanese man in Breakfast at Tiffany's, there's no allegory there. The film 21 was a literal telling about a group of math students trying to break the bank, which is why the casting was deliberate whitewashing.

 

[Sloth7d]

It's on DVD for you to see and judge for yourself, obviously I really liked it and so did a lot of other people.

How was Star Wars, Indiana Jones, Batman, X-Men, Harry Potter, Prometheus, Avengers and all the other kids movies on these boards that we all pretend aren't kids films, in your opinion?

It's cute that you are mad at my review of this box office, audience and crtical failure. Most importantly though, it failed as a movie in my eyes. It's real shame that the W-siblings haven't made a good film since 1999.

Now I'm not saying you're overreacting to me pointing out a double standard in your criticism of Cloud Atlas when you highly rated THG, which has a similar theme, but if I did, I would also let you know that my response had no ill intent behind it.

 

[redhawk23]

I'm Asian (Chinese) and have been a vocal critic of whitewashed and yellowfaced casting in the past, so I'll weigh on this, though I don't think it's entirely relevant to this movie, which I generally liked.

A performer playing against race is not necessarily whitewashing or yellowfacing. It is not racist that most of the women to portray Turandot or Coco San have been 400-pound European women (you could make an argument about the exoticistic content of the operas themselves, but that's for another day). I have been to ballets like Swan Lake where the roles of European mythical persons have been portrayed by male and female dancers that were Asian.

That's where I feel Cloud Atlas lies. The film is highly representational and allegorical, it's almost like you're watching a play with a small repertory cast that hurries backstage to change into different costumes after each act. The race issues are meant to screw with your perceptions.

This film reminds me of an excellent Canadian film called "Lilies" from a while back. All the roles, male and female, are played by men, particularly a muscular black guy who portrays a flamboyant French widow. It's because the film is representational and is a story-within-a-story (taking place in a men's prison) and I feel Cloud Atlas is in that spirit.

Yellowfacing and whitewashing is often used in films that are more literal in representation. Mickey Rooney was literally portraying a Japanese man in Breakfast at Tiffany's, there's no allegory there. The film 21 was a literal telling about a group of math students trying to break the bank, which is why the casting was deliberate whitewashing.

This is one of the worst cases of white washing because it wasn't just an Asian character they were mis portraying but a real person.

 

[DarkKnight88]

Vertigo was a box office, critical and audience failure too when it was released. And now it's lauded as one of the greatest.

I'm not sure where history will place Cloud Atlas, but to dismiss it just like that that is foolish.

Ambitious movies with big ideas always stand the test of time.

 

[Sentinel X]

Honestly, I don't get how this is a problem since one of the Wachowski's had a sex change and seems to be ok with these ideas. Not to mention you had actors who agreed to play and knew what some of their parts entailed. Plus I doubt they went out of their way to be racist in their ideas with this. If the make up is bad because it comes off as racist, it would have to be done with racist intent which isnt the case at all. I thought the idea was to show that we are all the same no matter what race or ethnicity? Despite your opinion on the presentation, that isn't racist at all. That's just simply bad make up and presentatIon, not racism.

Thats actually EXACTLY the point of it. Its sad that some people are too thick-skulled (or melodramatic) to notice that. All the actors played multiple races, sexes, sexual orientations, personas, economic classes, etc of people. It was clearly a reoccuring and prevalent theme in the movie. I don't see why it needs to be explained that its clearly not racist or why anyone cannot even see that

And I agree, some of the makeup was bad but there were far more successes than failures. The only real complaint I have is Doona Bae's makeup. They were horrendous for the most part (when she wasn't somni)-- especially her as a Mexican Woman (that looked like a madea movie makeup job)

 

[redhawk23]

Vertigo was a box office, critical and audience failure too when it was released. And now it's lauded as one of the greatest.

I'm not sure where history will place Cloud Atlas, but to dismiss it just like that that is foolish.

Ambitious movies with big ideas always stand the test of time.

This the same kind of argument that gets trotted out with every film that fails critically or at the box office these days.

Suffice it to say that most things that are dead on arrival, deserved or not, usually stay that way.

 

[Bruce Malone]

Yeah i've heard some complaints about the "yellow face" and this is probably the worst movie to hang that argument on. As pretty much every actor in the film is playing another race at some point so there is no specific singling out of races.

Now don't get me started on the Lone Ranger though...

 

[redhawk23]

Thats actually EXACTLY the point of it. Its sad that some people are too thick-skulled (or melodramatic) to notice that. All the actors played multiple races, sexes, sexual orientations, personas, economic classes, etc of people. It was clearly a reoccuring and prevalent theme in the movie. I don't see why it needs to be explained that its clearly not racist or why anyone cannot even see that

And I agree, some of the makeup was bad but there were far more successes than failures. The only real complaint I have is Doona Bae's makeup. They were horrendous for the most part (when she wasn't somni)-- especially her as a Mexican Woman (that looked like a madea movie makeup job)

Eh, whatever the "intent" people are allowed to have personal feelings on the ultimate effect of the film. The fact of the matter is though with a film that so heavily featured Asian characters, they could have done to have had some more Asian actors.

 

[Sentinel X]

Eh, whatever the "intent" people are allowed to have personal feelings on the ultimate effect of the film. The fact of the matter is though with a film that so heavily featured Asian characters, they could have done to have had some more Asian actors.

That would make no sense though. If you noticed the actors were hired based of the primary stories first and foremost. Eg: Doona Bae as Somni since that was her big story, Halle Berry as Luisa Rey since her big story was a woman influenced by her african-american father (in turn affected by abolishionist movements) to stop an evil coporation, etc

So actors were hired primarily on their most important stories. They put makeup on them when they crossed racial/sex lines as lesser characters in other stories but otherwise they remained their own race in the stories where they were the protagonist. The yellowface argument would have gravitas to it if Somni was a white woman in asian makeup but thats not the case. They made Jim Sturges an asian man in the somni storyline but he wasn't the main character in that (despire having a prominent role); his two big stories were as the composer and aboard the slave ship were he remained a white man.

 

[redhawk23]

^ You're acting as if the choice to have everyone in every story was necessary or even made sense ultimately.

They made the choice to have as many people in as many stories as possible, even if it was just for minor roles, and often those roles didn't make any sense according to their whole "echoing through time" thing. There's no real reason why Halle Barrey's 70s News Reporter is connected to a futuristic surgeon. There's no real artistic reason to have Halle Barrey in Asian makeup other than their choice to force in as many actors as they could. I personally didn't have a problem with that choice other than the low quality of some of the makeup ( which unfortunately takes away from some of the stellar work that they do elsewhere), but for other people it seemed even more unnecessary and invoked other trends in western filmmaking and they found it ultimately distasteful.

They have an opinion that is different from yours or mine...that is ok.

 

[Pink Ranger]

I'd also add that the "Asian" characters in the Sonmi storyline may not be meant to be interpreted literally as such; certainly there are enough regular Asian people in and about New Seoul to make it abundantly clear that these other men don't look Asian at all.

Considering that this is far, far into the future (when we have offworld colonies) and that genetic engineering is so prevalent, I interpreted the characters like Hae-Joo, the archivist and Boardman Mephi as being from a genetically engineered caste. Maybe like a separate sub-species made for military or law enforcement, which explains Hae-Joo's unparalleled fighting abilities. The fact that they all speak like Star Wars Imperial Officers makes it clear to me that they're not supposed to be "normal Asians." Jim Sturgess' character has a Korean name, but possibly the same way that River Tam in Firefly has a Chinese name.