COuld you forgive...

[Chris Wallace]

1. Really, REALLY crappy art if the story was good?
2. Complete disregard of historical continuity if the story was enjoyable?
3. A ridiculously hard-to-follow story that had a great ending?
4. One extremely horrendous element or event in an otherwise great story arc?

 

[Manic]

1. Really, REALLY crappy art if the story was good?

I've dropped comics for having crappy art.

2. Complete disregard of historical continuity if the story was enjoyable?

It depends on how greatly things were retconned, and for what purpose. I can forgive the occasional long lost child for the sake of adding to the supporting cast, but I'm likely to avoid your comic altogether if you try to say that a UN spy organization was always secretly controlled by a terrorist group, even when they were fighting and stopping said terrorist group's plots for years.

3. A ridiculously hard-to-follow story that had a great ending?

Only if the ending makes the middle of the story easier to understand, especially on the second reading.

4. One extremely horrendous element or event in an otherwise great story arc?

I dropped X-Men Legacy just because Juggernaut was made into a villain again over the course of a single issue with no valid reason given. And I loved X-Men Legacy up to that point. So... no.

 

[Chris Wallace]

Your response to #3-that's basically what I meant.

 

[Manic]

Oh. In that case, yes. I like a good mystery, and part of a good mystery means that the ending puts all of the clues and red herrings into perspective.

 

[Alastor]

I say yes to all of the above.

 

[Chris Wallace]

5. A badly drawn book (I mean consistently bad throughout) from an artist you generally like?

 

[Anubis]

1. Really, REALLY crappy art if the story was good? Yes
2. Complete disregard of historical continuity if the story was enjoyable?No
3. A ridiculously hard-to-follow story that had a great ending?yes
4. One extremely horrendous element or event in an otherwise great story arc? no

 

[Tron Bonne]

1. Really, REALLY crappy art if the story was good?

Yes, to an extent, but if it is really hideous then no.

2. Complete disregard of historical continuity if the story was enjoyable?

Not a complete disregard no.

3. A ridiculously hard-to-follow story that had a great ending?

No

4. One extremely horrendous element or event in an otherwise great story arc?

I don't know exactly what you mean...

 

[Max J Power]

1. Maybe. If the story was as good as the art was bad.
2. Not completely. For example, I enjoyed the Civil War main series pretty well, but I hated how the characterization of Iron Man, Mr. Fantastic, and Hank Pym was changed so the story could make it clear that one side was the bad side.
3. Yes.
4. It depends on how big the bad element is. The fifth book of Y: The Last Man for example, had an element I really didn't like, but it didn't ruin the story.
5. No.

 

[Chris Wallace]

I don't know exactly what you mean...

Say just mid-way through something really stupid happened. Someone did something incredibly out of character just for the sake of moving the story along. An example for me would be the Spider-Man/Batman crossover; Carnage shouldn't have been scared of Joker's psycho-plague. It certainly shouldn't have caused his symbiote to freak out, but obviously they felt it was the only way to justify Batman being able to beat him down.

 

[Manic]

4. It depends on how big the bad element is. The fifth book of Y: The Last Man for example, had an element I really didn't like, but it didn't ruin the story

The one where they reached San Francisco? What was the thing you didn't like?

 

[Alastor]

1. Really, REALLY crappy art if the story was good?
Its all about the story for me. The artwork is bonus, but I want the story to be good, which is one reason I never liked Image in the beginning or their "popular" artists

2. Complete disregard of historical continuity if the story was enjoyable?
I like Grant Morrison's approach to continuity. I dont get people that just have to have EVERYTHING fit in continuity, or follow it.

3. A ridiculously hard-to-follow story that had a great ending?
Of course, I don't like things always spelled out for me.

4. One extremely horrendous element or event in an otherwise great story arc?
If its just one aspect of an overall story, why would I let myself miss out on a great story because of nitpicking?

 

[Chris Wallace]

I enjoyed the Civil War main series pretty well, but I hated how the characterization of Iron Man, Mr. Fantastic, and Hank Pym was changed so the story could make it clear that one side was the bad side.

See, for me, CW was an example of #2 AND #5. I enjoyed the story overall, but to have all of the pro-regs acting like complete *****ebags was a slap in the face. An even bigger slap in the face was watching Spider-Man, after years of carefully guarding his identity & seeing his life unraveled & turned into utter disaster every time one of his enemies learned the name behind the mask, suddenly becoming convinced that telling the whole world who he was would be a good idea. How could he not have expected the backlash that followed?

 

[Max J Power]

The one where they reached San Francisco? What was the thing you didn't like?

Yorick loses his ring and [BLACKOUT]gets really sick and they think he has the plague, raising the possibility that the ring was what kept him from getting the plague in the first place.[/BLACKOUT] Which is fine. What I didn't like was [BLACKOUT]that four issues later, we find out he had botulism poisoning from eating tomato sauce from a dented can and the "blood" he was coughing up was tomato sauce.[/BLACKOUT] All that buildup for such an abrupt, stupid resolution. I didn't like that plot point, but the rest of the book (and series as a whole) was good.

Come to think of it, there are other times in Vaughan's work where buildup spans several issues and resolution takes one or two pages.

 

[Manic]

Yorick loses his ring and [BLACKOUT]gets really sick and they think he has the plague, raising the possibility that the ring was what kept him from getting the plague in the first place.[/BLACKOUT] Which is fine. What I didn't like was [BLACKOUT]that four issues later, we find out he had botulism poisoning from eating tomato sauce from a dented can and the "blood" he was coughing up was tomato sauce.[/BLACKOUT] All that buildup for such an abrupt, stupid resolution. I didn't like that plot point, but the rest of the book (and series as a whole) was good.

Come to think of it, there are other times in Vaughan's work where buildup spans several issues and resolution takes one or two pages.

[blackout]Actually, I loved that revelation. In the end, the cause of the plague ended up being one of the least important things about the story, and the real explanation they gave us about how Yorick survived made a hell of a lot more sense than a mystical ring he bought from a magic trick shop. After all, if it was the ring that protected him, how the hell did Ampersand survive? By proximity?[/blackout]

 

[Chris Wallace]

6. Disregarding the character's mentality for the sake of a good story?

 

[Manic]

6. Disregarding the character's mentality for the sake of a good story?

I've avoided Spider-Man like the plague ever since Brand New Day started, so no.

 

[Chris Wallace]

I don't see how any good has resulted from THAT disregard.

 

[Mace Dolex]

Dark Knight Returns is probably the greatest Batman tale ever but at first I had a problem with Frank Miller's art.

 

[J. Custer]

Refering to question 1: I would have even loved The Dark Knight Strikes Again if Miller drew it with the same passion and skillz as say, Elektra Lives Again. I usually have to have an equal love of art and story to buy a book these days. But being an artist I have bought books for the art plenty of times. I have no interest in the story/characters/comicbook Shadowpact but as soon as I heard Bill Willingham (My all-time favorite artist) was drawing some issues I rushed right out to the comic shop. His art made the story enjoyable for me. If he was only writing I wouldn't have even cared and actually was done as soon as the new artist came aboard....

question 2: Thousands of stories are told in comics under these very circumstances. I'm not a complete stickler for continuity. For a character like Batman I think loose continuity works well since there are tons of interpretations of Batman- so loose continuity ala' Morrison is cool with me in that case. If the X-men started a conversation about Obnoxio the Clown I would be amused. It's overlooking major factual things that would bother me.

question 3: if the story doesn't make sense? No. I'd only be able to enjoy the IDEA behind the ending for it's own sake.....which isn't saying much... And then I'd be wishing somone else came up with the ending and a better story to boot! If it was something you have to read carefully to figure out the mystery and was actually a good story? Sure.

question 4: sure as long as it wasn't too glaring or had too big an impact to the story & characters.

 

[J. Custer]

Dark Knight Returns is probably the greatest Batman tale ever but at first I had a problem with Frank Miller's art.

I know what you mean. I think Miller was going for something very specific artistically(i.e. playing around with Batmans size and other porportional relationships, and attempting a cartoony-ness) that wasn't pulled off with Klaus Janson inking. He's a fantastic inker in my book. I remember hearing that Miller wasn't that happy with the inks. I always thought it would be cool if Miller inked the whole book insead of bits and pieces-it probably would have translated better.

 

[Comics N' Toons]

1. Really, REALLY crappy art if the story was good?

If the story was great and the art looked like an untalented McFarlane wannabe drew it I might be able to.

2. Complete disregard of historical continuity if the story was enjoyable?

HELL NO... (Superman Birthright anyone?)

3. A ridiculously hard-to-follow story that had a great ending?

Probably not! I have a short attention span anyhow!

4. One extremely horrendous element or event in an otherwise great story arc?

Yeah I could forgive it if the whole arc was good.