Cyclops fans we lost, my 2 cents

[The Guard]

Coming into this thread with that attitude is a bit foolish. Like you wouldn't be throwing a massive hissy if they wrote Wolverine, let's say, suddenly gay in the movies? Gimme a break. You'd be all up in arms about it. You have ahissy when people say that Wolverine isn't the be all end all. Example: your 2 (count 'em 2) threads trying to argue that Logan loved Jean more than Scott and she him. No. Wrong. Cyke's death sucks. Period.

Uh, Cyclops has not been written as gay. And yes, Cyclops's death sucks. Most deaths do.

I agree. Even though I am not a diehard Cyclops fan, I must admit
that the X-Men trilogy did him no justice and I feel for those that are
fans of Cyclops not getting his due.

Depends on what "getting his due" means. If you mean "perfectly characterized according to comic book mythology", then NO character has received that treatment in this franchise. Not even Xavier and Magneto. If you mean "had some moments that nail the character as he is in the comics", then you are pretty much just wrong.

It simply made no sense for Fox to give Wolverine this much exposure when they were going to eventually give him his own solo project.

It makes perfect sense. Wolverine has been the central character in this entire franchise. He's hugely popular, and Hugh Jackman, who is a fantastic actor, has done a wonderful job in the role.

Cyclops isn't the first character to suffer from this, characters such
as Lady Deathstrike and Sabretooth were also misused for the trilogy and other characters were given alot more screen time than necessary, such as Storm, Pyro, Mystique and Rogue to name a few.

Let's talk about other superhero franchises who have "misused" characters, shall we?

If killing Cyclops is necessary than atleast have him go out more
heroically , especially considering that he is the X-Men's field leader,
and by the simple fact that he barely appeared in X2. Cyclops would have been great in the conclusion of X3, fighting with the team and
optic blasting foes. So much lost potential for his character.

Gasp! Lost potential for a character? In a movie? NO!

Let's see...Wolverine always wins, every woman wants him, He's always portrayed as being more experienced than other characters, better in battle, unstoppable...etc. He's a character who is always a 100% badass who no one can beat. Even characters like Punisher have been humiliated by Wolverine. That's why pulling for him is like pulling for Bill Gates to make money or like pulling for Brad Pitt to get the girl. It's like pulling for the winning team in a replay on classic sports. Wolverine never gets screwed over or humiliated in stories. He's a lock to be written as a winner.

I'd like to point out that Wolverine has had his ass handed to him MANY times in the comics, and especially in the movies, including X3 (Where he apparently gets his butt kicked by Jean, Magneto, Juggernaut, and maybe someone else). He wins for the same reason Batman and Superman and any other hero tend to win: Few people like it if the bad guys win.

 

[Loganbabe]

Your avatar says everything that needs to be said. Wolverine fans are jerks who love to rub their characters supposed superiority in other people's faces.

Altough I wouldn´t say that all Cyclops fans are jerks, you are a jerk for saying that all Wolverine fans are jerks.
I guess you´re the one who sees yourself as superior and better than the rest.

 

[Kurosawa]

Uh, Cyclops has not been written as gay. And yes, Cyclops's death sucks. Most deaths do.



Depends on what "getting his due" means. If you mean "perfectly characterized according to comic book mythology", then NO character has received that treatment in this franchise. Not even Xavier and Magneto. If you mean "had some moments that nail the character as he is in the comics", then you are pretty much just wrong.



It makes perfect sense. Wolverine has been the central character in this entire franchise. He's hugely popular, and Hugh Jackman, who is a fantastic actor, has done a wonderful job in the role.



Let's talk about other superhero franchises who have "misused" characters, shall we?



Gasp! Lost potential for a character? In a movie? NO!



I'd like to point out that Wolverine has had his ass handed to him MANY times in the comics, and especially in the movies, including X3 (Where he apparently gets his butt kicked by Jean, Magneto, Juggernaut, and maybe someone else). He wins for the same reason Batman and Superman and any other hero tend to win: Few people like it if the bad guys win.

He also wins against all other heroes that he fights. He never loses. He might lose a fight but ultimately he always ends up looking superior to whoever he's up against.

 

[Aptman]

He's portrayed as a better martial artist than Iron Fist.
A better Samurai than Silver Samurai.
A better spy than Nick Fury.

It's sickening.

It's Batman with bad grammar.
Old stories with Wolverine were great. It wasn't so much that he was the greatest fighter in the world, it was that he just didn't stop. You'd beat on him, and he'd keep trying. unfortunitely that led to his healing factor going way over the top, so that it was impossible to keep him down for long. I like a character with strong will powered, not very over-powered.

 

[Kurosawa]

Altough I wouldn´t say that all Cyclops fans are jerks, you are a jerk for saying that all Wolverine fans are jerks.
I guess you´re the one who sees yourself as superior and better than the rest.

Wolverine fans live to harp on their favorite's superiority and rub other people's faces in it. I don't have an avatar of Cyclops kicking Wolverine's ass and snarky comments about taking your girl. I have an avatar of a Jewish comedian who's been dead for 50 years.

 

[Kurosawa]

It's Batman with bad grammar.
Old stories with Wolverine were great. It wasn't so much that he was the greatest fighter in the world, it was that he just didn't stop. You'd beat on him, and he'd keep trying. unfortunitely that led to his healing factor going way over the top, so that it was impossible to keep him down for long. I like a character with strong will powered, not very over-powered.

Batman had 50 years of being equal to the other heroes, not superior. Wolverine's been showing other characters up since day one. He's a character that's been built up by making other characters look bad.

 

[Aptman]

Uh, Cyclops has not been written as gay. And yes, Cyclops's death sucks. Most deaths do.



Depends on what "getting his due" means. If you mean "perfectly characterized according to comic book mythology", then NO character has received that treatment in this franchise. Not even Xavier and Magneto. If you mean "had some moments that nail the character as he is in the comics", then you are pretty much just wrong.



It makes perfect sense. Wolverine has been the central character in this entire franchise. He's hugely popular, and Hugh Jackman, who is a fantastic actor, has done a wonderful job in the role.



Let's talk about other superhero franchises who have "misused" characters, shall we?



Gasp! Lost potential for a character? In a movie? NO!



I'd like to point out that Wolverine has had his ass handed to him MANY times in the comics, and especially in the movies, including X3 (Where he apparently gets his butt kicked by Jean, Magneto, Juggernaut, and maybe someone else). He wins for the same reason Batman and Superman and any other hero tend to win: Few people like it if the bad guys win.

Sorry if I'm not following your post right, but are you saying that movies mess up characters all the time, so its no big deal that its happening in this movie too?

 

[siops]

He also wins against all other heroes that he fights. He never loses. He might lost a fight but ultimately he always ends up looking superior to whoever he's up against.

Relax.. if it makes you feel any better wolverine has never won against cyclops. The only time wolverine came on top was in ultimate when he was fighting a immature 19 year old Scott Summers and when apocalypse made wolverine his horseman "death".

 

[Aptman]

Batman had 50 years of being equal to the other heroes, not superior. Wolverine's been showing other characters up since day one. He's a character that's been built up by making other characters look bad.

I guess you can blame his first appearence. Goes up against the Hulk and doesn't get his head completely smashed in... and the legacy begins...

 

[Kurosawa]

Relax.. if it makes you feel any better wolverine has never won against cyclops. The only time wolverine came on top was in ultimate when he was fighting a immature 19 year old Scott Summers and when apocalypse made wolverine his horseman "death".

Wolverine makes Cyclops look like a loser constantly. Especially the entire love triangle retcon.

 

[Kurosawa]

I guess you can blame his first appearence. Goes up against the Hulk and doesn't get his head completely smashed in... and the legacy begins...

Then Thunderbird gets killed off because he and Wolverine are too similar.

 

[WorthyStevens]

Relax.. if it makes you feel any better wolverine has never won against cyclops. The only time wolverine came on top was in ultimate when he was fighting a immature 19 year old Scott Summers and when apocalypse made wolverine his horseman "death".

Heh, Wolverine as Death. There's one thing that Wolverine could never top anyone at.

No mutant will ever make a greater or more memorable Death than Angel.

 

[siops]

Wolverine makes Cyclops look like a loser constantly.

No he doesnt..

 

[siops]

Heh, Wolverine as Death. There's one thing that Wolverine could never top anyone at.

No mutant will ever make a greater or more memorable Death than Angel.

You are correct sir

 

[Loganbabe]

Wolverine fans live to harp on their favorite's superiority and rub other people's faces in it.

And Cyclops fans live to call Wolverine fans jerks. And to feel superior in doing that.

I don't have an avatar of Cyclops kicking Wolverine's ass and snarky comments about taking your girl. I have an avatar of a Jewish comedian who's been dead for 50 years.

Good for you, I don´t even have an avatar. If I had one, maybe it would be a Louise Brooks avatar, an american actress who´s been dead for quite a long time too.

 

[Aptman]

You are correct sir

Yet, Gambit will go down in history as the most well know Horseman...for his new mutant ability of having gas.

 

[Kurosawa]

And Cyclops fans live to call Wolverine fans jerks. And to feel superior in doing that.


Good for you, I don´t even have an avatar. If I had one, maybe it would be a Louise Brooks avatar, an american actress who´s been dead for quite a long time too.

You have to admit that his avatar was made for one reason: to piss Cyclops fans off.

 

[The Guard]

Wolverine makes Cyclops look like a loser constantly. Especially the entire love triangle retcon.

Are you referring to the love triangle where Jean clearly chose Scott and rejected Wolverine? And the relationship where Cyclops keeps taking the high road and doing the right thing, while Wolverine comes across as a jerk?

 

[Kurosawa]

Are you referring to the love triangle where Jean clearly chose Scott and rejected Wolverine? And the relationship where Cyclops keeps taking the high road and doing the right thing, while Wolverine comes across as a jerk?

The love triangle that started in the late 90's after Marvel started pushing Wolverine to the moon, and then retconed it into the past. The love triangle where Wolverine grabs Jean and kisses her in front of all the other X-Men and X-Factor and Cyclops does nothing.

 

[Kurosawa]

That's their right. However, it seems to me though that half of those people haven't even considered the elements involved, and have been completely unwilling to accept any compromise on anything about this franchise. Real mature viewpoints, there.

So all Cyclops fans who are upset over these decisions are immature? tell me, what motivation should a person who is a fan of Cyclops have to see a movie in which he does nothing but get killed in a humiliating manner and then replaced in the storyline by his rival? Why would any Cyclops fan enjoy seeing that done to the character?

Quote:
Yes, but that's not what we're talking about here.

What WERE we talking about, then? There is more to life than X3: THE LAST STAND. The world will still turn if it is not perfect.

That's not the point. We're on these forums to discuss this movie and what we think about it. those of us who are displeased with their decisions have every right to express our opinions. Of course there's bigger issues in the world than this. I have a ton of more important issues in my life than this. But if we're on this message board, then this movie is the issue we're concerning ourselves with at this particular time.

 

[The Guard]

The love triangle that started in the late 90's after Marvel started pushing Wolverine to the moon, and then retconed it into the past. The love triangle where Wolverine grabs Jean and kisses her in front of all the other X-Men and X-Factor and Cyclops does nothing.

Uh, in the comics, Cyclops has hardly been without stain. But then, I'm referring to the movies. Where Jean clearly chose Cyclops, and rejected Wolverine.

So all Cyclops fans who are upset over these decisions are immature?

Did I say that? No. I said refusing to ever compromise is an immature viewpoint. And Cyclops fans who are upset about it and let it affect their lives in this manner...yeah, they might be a bit immature.

tell me, what motivation should a person who is a fan of Cyclops have to see a movie in which he does nothing but get killed in a humiliating manner and then replaced in the storyline by his rival?

Motivation to see X3? In no particular order:

Xavier, Wolverine, Storm, Beast, Angel, Iceman, Rogue, Kitty Pryde, Colossus, Magneto, Phoenix, Mystique, Juggernaut, etc, etc, etc.

Another reason to see a movie where this happens? Because there are other ways to interpret that scene beyond "they ****ed up". Your interpretation is just one. I seriously doubt the writers sat down and said "Let's kill Cyclops in a humiliating manner, and replace Cyclops with Wolverine".

That's not the point. We're on these forums to discuss this movie and what we think about it. those of us who are displeased with their decisions have every right to express our opinions.

True. And by the same token, I have every right to express my opinion about your opinions.

Of course there's bigger issues in the world than this. I have a ton of more important issues in my life than this. But if we're on this message board, then this movie is the issue we're concerning ourselves with at this particular time.

Riiight.

 

[Kurosawa]

Uh, in the comics, Cyclops has hardly been without stain. But then, I'm referring to the movies. Where Jean clearly chose Cyclops, and rejected Wolverine.

They make it pretty clear in the movies that she'd prefer Wolverine sexually. It's part of their campaign to make Scott look like a wuss. Scott and Jean have next to no intimate moments in the movies and don't come off like much of a couple.

Did I say that? No. I said refusing to ever compromise is an immature viewpoint. And Cyclops fans who are upset about it and let it affect their lives in this manner...yeah, they might be a bit immature.

How do you know how much it's "affecting our lives"?? So we rant about it on a message board. Big f'n deal.

Motivation to see X3? In no particular order:

Xavier, Wolverine, Storm, Beast, Angel, Iceman, Rogue, Kitty Pryde, Colossus, Magneto, Phoenix, Mystique, Juggernaut, etc, etc, etc.

To be honest, the temptatio to see Angel, Beast, Colossus and Juggs is there for me. But I know that how and why they're killing Cyclops will piss me off enough that I won't enjoy the rest of the movie.

Another reason to see a movie where this happens? Because there are other ways to interpret that scene beyond "they ****ed up". Your interpretation is just one. I seriously doubt the writers sat down and said "Let's kill Cyclops in a humiliating manner, and replace Cyclops with Wolverine".

No...Tom Rothman did.

 

[The Guard]

They make it pretty clear in the movies that she'd prefer Wolverine sexually.

1, we see this indicated where? She flat out rejects him when he tries something. And 2, so what? This is a real life issue. Or should we ignore the fact that attractive people walk the Earth in every love story? After all, love with no temptation is easy. And boring as hell.

It's part of their campaign to make Scott look like a wuss. Scott and Jean have next to no intimate moments in the movies and don't come off like much of a couple.

Ah, the conspiracy theory. Classic. Define "intimate", because hugging and "I love you so much" strike me as pretty intimate. "Sexual", maybe not, but those are two different things. And inasmuch as they don't have "picnic scenes", they definitey come across as a couple.

To be honest, the temptatio to see Angel, Beast, Colossus and Juggs is there for me. But I know that how and why they're killing Cyclops will piss me off enough that I won't enjoy the rest of the movie.

Must be rough. I mean, imagine if I hated a plotline that had Rachel Dawes and Ra's Al Ghul essentially telling Bruce Wayne what to do with his anger so much that I refused to enjoy all of BATMAN BEGINS. I mean, imagine it...

No...Tom Rothman did.

I seriously doubt it.

 

[cdude2k6]

NO!!!!!!!!

Why did you people tell me that cyclopes is gonna die in X3. I was looking forward to see this movie, but I'll have a hard time being suprised if I know that cyclops is gonna die! Well, I hope that all of you guys are lying and that cyclopes isn't gonna die. Atleast there's still pyro. If pyro dies I'm gonna leave at that point. HOW COULD THEY CUT OFF CYCLOPES!!!!!!

 

[Azrael23]

Depends on what "getting his due" means. If you mean "perfectly characterized according to comic book mythology", then NO character has received that treatment in this franchise. Not even Xavier and Magneto. If you mean "had some moments that nail the character as he is in the comics", then you are pretty much just wrong.

Well the ladder is not what I meant. The same can also be applied to
Magneto and Xavier as well, however since Magneto will be getting a spin-off movie then it really doesn't matter since he will be characterized more.
Cyclops shouldn't be sidelined just for Wolverine and Storm, especially since he is getting a solo film. You claim that NO character has recieved this
treatment, yet Wolverine comes very close. Even if other characters are not perfectly characterized I don't believe the field leader for the X-Men
team should be virtually ignored or sidelined to make more room for ONE lone character.

It makes perfect sense. Wolverine has been the central character in this entire franchise. He's hugely popular, and Hugh Jackman, who is a fantastic actor, has done a wonderful job in the role.

So just because Wolverine is popular that automatically means he is (suppose) to ge extra exposure? I don't think so, the films are called
X-Men, not Wolverine and the X-Men. Its really irrelevant on how good of a job Jackman has potrayed Wolverine, thats not whats in question.
The X-Men was a group long before Wolverine's appearance, he is not "the X-Men" he is merely a key member within it. So it doesn't make perfect
sense to focus a trilogy on ONE character when he will no doubt recieve one of his own.

Let's talk about other superhero franchises who have "misused" characters, shall we?

Why? I'm talking about X-Men! this is a board for X-Men correct?

Gasp! Lost potential for a character? In a movie? NO!

Yup! Plenty, I could go on and on. Wolverine himself doesn't even measure up to his fighting potential in the films.