Cyclops fans we lost, my 2 cents

[Kurosawa]

I am a self-proclaimed nerd/geek/freak and I wear my colors proudly, but I don't worked up over afictinal character. I just love hearing you guys talk about how upset it makes you and how they've supposedly f**ked up the franchise. Face it, Cyclops was disposable. That was proven in X2 when he was absent for the most part and nobody really cared except for Cyclops fanboys.

They made Cyclops disposable by portraying him as an incompetant idiot in X1.

 

[The Lumberjack]

good to now you wear it must be great with the ladies and i never said the franchise was ruin i felt like it was more of a legacy and 30 years old story that was ruined and if you really where such a proud nerd i think you would be affected too otherwise whats the fun in wearing it loud and proud if you don't back it up

Did the cheap Captain Americamovies ruin his legacy? Did the early 90s Fantastic Four film kill their story? What effect did Dolph Lundgren have on the Punisher as a whole? Those movies all blew and should have ruined their legacy according to your logic. Just because I didn't cry and cut myself whenever Venom died in the comics doesn't mean I'm not a true comic geek.

As far as ladies go, (which is a pointless argument on the interent and I feel ******ed for even responding) any female that's worth the time isn't really going to give a damn if you collect comics.

 

[gambitfire]

Did the cheap Captain Americamovies ruin his legacy? Did the early 90s Fantastic Four film kill their story? What effect did Dolph Lundgren have on the Punisher as a whole? Those movies all blew and should have ruined their legacy according to your logic. Just because I didn't cry and cut myself whenever Venom died in the comics doesn't mean I'm not a true comic geek.

As far as ladies go, (which is a pointless argument on the interent and I feel ******ed for even responding) any female that's worth the time isn't really going to give a damn if you collect comics.

no they don't i should know but i was referring to look not passion. Im sure your going to make some horrible statement on how the looks don't matter but w/e. Anyways as far as the legacy thing well i probably wont' be around in 20 years when they try to remake all of this or i probably won't be such a fan by then so yea to me it does matter now. Whats your favorite character? Do you feel they had justice done to them? And if your not upset well good for you not everyone handles things they way you want them.

 

[martinbluther]

Did the cheap Captain Americamovies ruin his legacy? Did the early 90s Fantastic Four film kill their story? What effect did Dolph Lundgren have on the Punisher as a whole? Those movies all blew and should have ruined their legacy according to your logic. Just because I didn't cry and cut myself whenever Venom died in the comics doesn't mean I'm not a true comic geek.

As far as ladies go, (which is a pointless argument on the interent and I feel ******ed for even responding) any female that's worth the time isn't really going to give a damn if you collect comics.

If any of those movies had been seen by anyone, they might have...

 

[DRob]

My honest to god opinion whether u ridicule me or not if u ask most if not every person that reconise the x-men (the comics or animated series not the movies) , Cyclops is the second most reconisable guy on the team like it or not. And any knowing fan of Cyke will tell u that he has much more potential (power-wise and emotional) than being some m*****-f******* second banana.

 

[The Guard]

WTF???? Guard why the hell would you take the time to write that much? that seems boring, I could'nt even read past the first word. Go get laid.

Because I can. Because I feel like it. Because I tire of having Cyclops's character dragged through the mud because of bias. And I "get laid" plenty. How the hell do you think I have the energy to write these long posts?

If any of you so-called Cyclops fans read Guard's post, it's obvious(at least to people with comprehension skills) that he is not being biased towards Wolverine. He is defending the movie version Cyclops and Wolverine and he is also defending himself on what a poster said.

See? This person reads every word in the sentences I write, and then puts them in context. They don't make broad assumptions about my opinions based on a few words.

I'm still looking forward to the film, but the filmmakers deciding to kill of Cyclops is profoundly stupid.

As opposed to what, doing what was done in X2 and having almost NO drama surrounding his character in the film?

And furthermore, they KNOW fans will be pissed. They've acknowledged concerns about Cyclops' role in the film, and all they've done is give us fans the runaround.

Actually, all they've done is tell you the truth.

*FOX has never had any love for Cyclops. Sorry, Guard, but they've done nothing but punk Scott since day one.

"Punk Scott"? What the hell does that mean?

Wolverine is clearly the main character in the movies and they clearly want the audience to follow his story.[qwuote]
That's true. How about that?

The X-men are just supporting characters. All Cyclops is to the audience is an obstacle for Wolverine to be with Jean and to control the team.

Nope, that's just your interpretation of things. I don't see Wolverine seeking to control the team at all.

He's not a character that is given enough time or development for the audience to care about. All he is is a vanilla character for the audience to sneer at.

These are ensemble films. You care about the characters if you like them. Hell, even Wolverine hasn't really been developed that much. Simple fact is, the writers simply do not have time to "develop" every single one of them. These are story-driven films, not so much character-driven ones. Are you still pretending that nothing about Scott has been explored?

Sure they would. People want to see the characters struggle and overcome adversity. Getting Jean away from Scott is part of Wolverine's struggle in the movies. Having her flat-out leave Scott for Wolverine could make the audience dislike WOlverine, so instead they kill Scott.

Is this similar to the way Xavier is the one everyone wants to see Magneto overcome because he's an obstacle? Wow.

3 movies and he's hardly done anything right yet.

-Was instrumental in saving Wolverine and Rogue.
-Saved Jean
-Planned the X-Men's strike on Liberty Island
-Led the X-Men into battle
-Spotted the method of Magneto's threat
-Got rid of Sabertooth via optic blasts
-Was instrumental in saving the day at Liberty Island
-Was the bigger man in numerous confrontations with Wolverine
-Expressed a desire to carry on if Xavier was taken out of action
-Provided emotional support to Jean when she was distressed in X2
I don't consider that "hardly doing anything right".

Meanwhile, Wolverine has kicked tons of ass in the films. Wolverine is impressive as hell in the movies-he near unstoppable. True, he takes some punishment, but he always-ALWAYS wins.

Of course Wolverine kicks tons of ass. That's what he does. Are you whining because Scott hasn't had as many two-minute long fight scenes? That's not Scott's character. Scott blasts things, and figures things out. Wolverine kicks ass.
"Wolverine always wins"? Odd, I seem to remember that in X-MEN,he got his ass handed to him by Sabertooth, Magneto AND Mystique, effectively LOSING in each confrontation. I could be wrong, though. You could have actually watched these movies and remembered them accurately. Doubt it though. Hmm, seems like you're wrong. Again.

Scott is portrayed as being weak in the fiels and a poor leader, making idiotic decisions.

Weak in the field how? Examples please? Are you referring to when he gives strong orders without a moment' shesitation like "Storm, fry him", and even smacks down Wolverine's ideas about things, and makes the final call on his own to blast the machine? Or when he questions his commander, Xavier? Of his calm under pressure? Doesn't strike me as "weak", to me.
Which "idiotic decisions" has he made? And be specific, please.

And that's exactly what she's saying. He excites her. She sticks with Scott because he's dependable. Scott's a Honda Accord, Wolverine's a Harley.

So he excites her. As I said before, god forbid a redblooded woman is excited by a handsome, rugged man. And a woman sticking with a man she loves because he is dependable is bad, because...

She chose Scott because he's dependable. But it's clear that all the actual sexual attraction is between her and Wolverine.

Why? Because there's no sex scene between Jean and Scott? So there couldn't be? Just because you don't see any? You're an idiot, friend. With a complete lack of imagination.

First of all, **** you for that comment.

Oh, no. I'm being cursed at. Know why I made that comment? Because with NO INDICATION that I have any scorn or hatred for the character of Cyclops, you choose to assume I do, and outright called me a liar in the process. I tire of your ignorance. People like you make this world dumber.

I could just as easily say you have half a brain for the way you just blindly accept and defend whatever the studio does.

You could, but you'd be wrong. I'm not sitting here calling you a liar based on things you haven't said. I'm not blindly accepting and defending what the studio does. I'm explaining it. There is a huge difference. I'm defending the writers, yes. Writing is not easy.

Of course they're not out to personally offend me. They don't care how many Cyclops fans they offend because they're enough apologists like you to take up the slack.

Then quit acting like they are. There are more important thingsin life. Like learning to interpret things in context without extreme bias. And learning that the world isn't always black and white.

It's definately Luke. But Han is hardly the background character that Cyclops is in the movies. Cyclops has about as much screen time in X2 and X3 as characters like Wedge. Maybe a bit more, but definately not as much as Lando. Plus when he's on screen he's either getting his ass kicked or captured.

He has far more screentime than Wedge, and more dramatic screentime, too, for the most part. Definitely in Lando realm. I love how you think getting your ass kicked or captured is neccessarily a bad thing for a character. It's called "conflict". Look it up.

Both characters got enough screentime and development to where they drew legions of fans. Cyclops in the movies is a footnote at best, especially in X2 and X3.

This isn't STAR WARS, though, is it? Not remotely the same writing approach. What's your point? That Cyclops and Wolverine could have been balanced better? I agree. They could have been (and there would have been some tradeoff, either less Magneto, or less Xavier, or no Storm or something along those lines). But simply because it could have been done better is no reason to piss all over what HAS been done with Cyclops.

Yeah, but in these movies it just makes Cyclops look weak.

Why? If anything, it makes him look stronger, because he doesn't whine about it or fight Wolverine over it. Should I panic when my girlfriend thinks an attractive man is attractive? Should I act like a baby and go fight him because I'm insecure about the situation? It's not like Jean left him for Wolverine. There's no cuckolding or anything along those lines.

Had X3 been done correctly, it would be easier to look past this crap. But X3 is just the final slap in the face to Cyclops fans.

And a love letter to fans of THE X-MEN.

In X1 he's an incompetant idiot.

Why? Details, please. Though I think I've already pointed out why he's competent. YOU JUST COMPLETELY IGNORE IT BECAUSE IT INVALIDATES YOUR ARGUMENT. Classic fanboy bickering strategy.

In X2 he's a non factor.

True, except in the development of his and Jean Grey's relationship, and the set up it provides for X3. And his scenes rock.

Then in X3 he gets killed 15 minutes into the movie. Now what fan of any character would be pleased with that and would defend it?????

A fan who doesn't see everything in "I want it this way, so it should be this way". A fan who knows a damn sight more than you do about writing, and about what happened behind the scenes at FOX and WB during X3/SUPERMAN RETURNS.

As I said, had X3 been made correctly, it would be easier to look past this stuff. But X3 didn't, and in it we see her all over him yet again, while Scott's worm food. Of course it's the dark part of her-I'm sure that's the siade of her that's attracted to him in the first place.

It's also in line with what has happened in the comics in the various Phoenix stories.

By the way, I personally feel love triangles are cheap clichés.

So are superheroes and villains and dealing with powers as curses/gifts. So is life, at this point. What's your point?

Cyclops never gets payback when he gets his ass kicked in the movies. That's the difference. ALL he does is get his ass kicked.

So...he's "weak" because "he doesn't get payback" (when it's not possible because he's bothering to save Jean's life and focus on the mission rather than go hunt Toad (who is already dead/injured by Storm) and he's more interested in saving Jean and joining the X-Men again (and Wolverine has dispatched Deathstrike). WOW. So...unless you get payback...you're weak? That weak-ass Jesus. What the hell was he thinking, turning the other cheek and not seeking out revenge at every turn? Maybe, just maybe, Cyclops isn't interested in payback...he's interested in getting the job done. Wait...Wolverine never gets payback EITHER.

No, that's stupid thinking and it was done for the precise reason of making Scott look like an idiot.

Why is it stupid thinking? They are in a tight spot, and it stops Magneto's plan, and btw, they're not guaranteed to die. He says "Fry him", not "fry the statue", and Storm used localized lightning on Sabertooth earlier in the film. So, be specific, what's stupid about it? What would YOU do in that situation? I know what I'd do. Open my eyes and BLAST at the sound of Magneto's voice. So no fair taking that one. What would you do?

Did you see where he screwed up their cover in Grand Central?

Oh no. A mutant is visible in public. I don't recall it being an issue.

Or where Toad kicked his ass?

Toad kicked everyone's ass. Via surprise. What's your point? You know what I DID see? Cyclops GETTING UP from Toad's attack, blasting, and ready to go, and saving his friend/lover.

Or where he almost got Storm to fry the entire team?

See, you just ASSUME the team would have been fried. That's not neccessarily the case. Again, Storm had used localized lightning on Sabertooth. Just because Magneto implies it doesn't make it true.

It made him look sloppy and incompetant. If he had given her a decent fight, then it would have been different.

Deathstrike. DEATHSTRIKE. DEATHSTRIKE! Who handed WOLVERINE his ass until he fought dirty.

No, he's portrayed as incompetant.

You still haven't given me a single valid reason why. Not one. "Failing temporarily" or "not being perfect" does not equal incompetent. Otherwise, every single CHARACTER in these films would be incompetent. And in every OTHER film. It's called CONFLICT. Perfect characters are BORING.

Wolverine is portrayed as incredibly tough and resiliant and impossible to stop.

Impossible to stop? Then how does he get stopped THREE TIMES in X-MEN?

No matter how hard he's beaten down, he keeps coming back.

Uh, ditto Cyclops, who gets back up after Toad's attack. And he shakes off mind control pretty fast.

 

[The Guard]

All Cyke is ever shown to do is fail, except when he blasts Magneto.

And when he infiltrates Liberty Island in a jet without the X-Men being detected by patrols? When he saves Jean? Spots the machine? Comes up with the best PLAN to stop the machine? These are SUCCESSES.

Which he had to have Wolverine's help to do. That's not a bad thing-emphasizing the team idea-but in X2 they got away from that and it became 100% the Wolverine show.

Apparently it's lost on you that Jean and Storm helped, too. As in "teamwork". In the final sequence, Wolverine is not the only reason for success. It is Cyclops who essentially tells Wolverine his plan sucks, and then comes up with the plan that works.

He's incompetant all through X2 and all he does in X3 is die.

I would call destroying a dam with just the snapback from your optic blasts ptretty competent. I would also call dispatching several guards competent. He did fail once in X2, when he was captured and brainwashed. However, he succeeded as a character in his arc with Jean, and he hasn't been portrayed as an incompetent character overall.

Ooooo, he beat up a guard. Big f'n deal. And Marsden had to push to get that much.

Actually he beat up a guard and shot a guard. Who cares if he had to push for the scene? It's in the movie. For someone who doesn't want "politics" to affect his view of things, you're certainly letting them when it suits you.
I'm still waiting for you to tell me if Xavier is incompetent because he got gassed.

The moviegoer would like to see their heroes succeed on occasion. Which Cyke never does.

Yes he does.
-Saves Rogue and Wolverine
-Obviously rocks in terms of faithfulness to his teacher and lover
-Is the bigger man in confrontations with Wolverine
-Organizes raid on Liberty Island
-Saves Jean.
-Flies X-Jet into Liberty undetected
-Spots threat
-Devises final plan
-Stops Magneto, enabling Wolverine to stop machine
-Defeats guards
-Is damn strong when he has to be at the end of X2
Every single one of those things is a success.

If you truly loved the character then you would find what they're doing in X3 unacceptable.

No, if I truly loved the character, I would PREFER something else. Which I do. I would love to see Scott get more screentime in X3, and see his arc with Jean/Phoenix resolved in a better way. There is no really "unacceptable" aspect to me when it comes to adaptions, within reason. As long as the characters stay in character and resemble themselves, I can handle change to the mythos.
If YOU really found it unacceptable, you'd do something about it, like firebomb FOX or sabotage X3's release. Otherwise, in a way, you're kind of accepting it, aren't you?

That doesn't mena that you wouldn't still go to the movie, but you would at least have a problem with that aspect of it. Every other Cyclops fan in these forums is outraged. hell, even some fans who DON'T like Cyke say it's wrong and lame.

I HAVE a problem with that aspect of it. But I'm still going to enjoy the movie, and Marsden's role in it, because there are lots of other fantastic elements in X3 besides Cyclops part, and I can't sit there and ***** about "what should have been" when I have no control over it. Most people aren't as forgiving as I am. I.E, most people are more anal. And most people are sheep, and afraid to have a differing opinion on the Cyclops situation.

X3 is one of the most rushed movies ever done. They waited to get started because they were bickering with Singer.

One of most rushed movies ever done? Could you BE any more hyperbolic? Do you know how long it took Joel Schumacher to make TIGERLAND? PHONE BOOTH? X3 may have been rushed, but they had time to make a good film. And they appear to have done so. They wanted to get started, in part because they didn't want to compete with SUPERMAN RETURNS and SPIDER-MAN 3 (wise, wise decisions on both counts), and in part because it had been several years since X2, and they felt they might be losing their window for a sequel. This proposed "feud" with SUPERMAN RETURNS and Singer is just window dressing for fan and critical complaints. It has no real truth to it beyond the basics: Singer left as development was beginning, and they needed a new director to replace him. Had Singer been there, X3 would have been coming this Summer anyway, from what I hear.

And the fact that they've made a version of the X-Men where he is not vital is proof that they don't respect the comics or the comics fans.

No, it proves that they have chosen not to make that a focal point of their mythology. There are plenty of examples of how they HAVE shown respect for the comics and comics fans.

He's the main character of the movies 100%. The other characters are nothing but supporting players.

Yes, he's the main character of this franchise. It's been that way for two films, and will be that way for three? What's your point? That it should have been different? It WASN'T. And ISN'T. And whining about it is not going to change that. Every movie has main and supporting characters. Even the comic books put characters in supporting roles, depending on the storyline. Wolverine, Xavier, and Magneto have made fantastic main characters with much to offer cinematically.

The best storyarc besides his is Nightcrawler in X2. I thought every minute Nightcrawler was on screen was cool as hell. they did a great job with him.

But you can't glean similar meaning from Cyclops's scenes. This I don't particularly understand.

No, I want him to be accurate to his comic self. I'd rather see more of the entire team and less of Wolverine. Wolverine is a character I tolerate at best. I hate the character.

Cyclops HAS been accurate to his comic book self, in the context of a more realistic movie. What do you want to see that you haven't seen elements of?

Except for Nightcrawler in X2, no other character has had much of their own storyline.

Uh, Xavier, Magneto, Cyclops, Jean, Iceman and Rogue have had clear storylines.

Iceman and Rogue are just Wolverine's little sidekicks.

Rogue best represents the concept of power being a curse or gift, depending on how you deal with it. She has an arc with Bobby, and clearly an arc with Wolverine. Bobby represents the decision to use powers for good, rather than evil, or not using them at all, despite it being easier to do so. Pyro is his foil, and represents the opposite, the decision to hate because of an inability to achieve a certain lifestyle. Bobby has an arc with Rogue, and in X3 clearly has more to do, and an arc with Kitty. He also has an arc with Pyro, and we saw a bit of his home life and feelings on the school, allowing a glimpse into the mutant lifestyle. He's far more than "Wolverine's sidekick".

Jean's the love interest

Jean represents the concept of evolution/power and the curse/gift of it in the franchise. She has done far more than be "the love interest".

Storm finally gets some face time in X3

Storm has been power personified in X-MEN and X2. The nature of fear/anger and their intersection with bias and bigotry has been explored through her character.

Scott's a background character.

He has been, yes. That doesn'tmean he hasn't been used to explore any concepts.

Mystique has gotten more and better screentime in the movies than Scott. MYSTIQUE!

I think they're eprobably about equal. Mystique had hardly any screentime in X-MEN, and Scott had much more in X-MEN. I wouldn't remotely call Mystique's screentime better. As of X2, she had yet to have a truly emotional scene, whereas Scott had several, and his power usage was far more impressive.

If you can't see the movies are blatently biased in favor of Wolverine and that it's detrimental to the other characters-Cyclops most of all-then you're blind.

I never said that wasn't the case. Absolutely some characters are being given less screentime and development because Wolverine has so much. Ditto Magneto's screentime in each film having a same effect. And Xavier's. And Jean's, come to think of it. I'm not even sure why you're bringing this up, as this is not a point I've ever contended, and the point you've quoted me saying has nothing to do with this concept.

The X-Men's leader is a hell of a lot more important character than a C-list Batman villian.

I made a simple statement about the nature of the word "explore". I never said anything about the importance of Cyclops and Scarecrow. I wasn't comparing them.

First off, I think he's a better actor than Hugh, who has nothing but Wolverine. Jimmy has done more movies than any other X-Men actor since X1.

Jackman's easily a better actor. But Marsden is quite good. He's a bit of a niche actor, though, with a tad less range.

And it seems that Fox and WB worked and collaborated hard to allow Jimmy to make both movies... I think that also shows how well liked he is...regardless of how THEY feel about his "star" quality.

Agreed.

Try putting Hugh in solid shades and a visor, giving him poor dialogue, minimal scenes, no physical action, and see where he'd be today.... (a small theater production in Australia) LOL

Jackman was a Broadway star long before X-MEN, and wold have still been one without it. That's nothing to sneeze at. Did X-MEN and X2 help him become a star? Yes. But it can't be ignored that part of the reason for that is because he was good in them. It's not just that the role rocked. He did a lot with it.

Marsden just needs to break into leading man status and then I'll be satisfied. We all know he's capable. I'm tired of seeing him play the "other man" parts.

That may never happen. As I said, he's a bit of a niche actor. He's talented, and he knows how to act, but he hasn't got a whole lot of range. And he knows it, or he wouldn't keep taking the kinds of roles he does.

I hate this because i don't want to blame the Wolverine character or the Actor himself but he should know better than to say all that love nonsense i mean he was there he should now that his character was with jean FOR LIKE A WEEK OR LESS!!!!!! HOW THE HELL DO YOU FALL IN LOVE LIKE THAT!!??!?!

It's a movie. People have fallen in love over less. And it may be mostly lust, though he clearly does care for her and about her.

I think James Marsden did a great job with Cyclops, especially considering that if you put both movies together he had a total of 10 lines or something.

He's had far more lines than that. And moments.

 

[MJB]

I can't believe they killed off Scott with no purpose what so ever. I hate that Logan is in scott's place. This movie should have been about Scott and Jean or part 4. I think i'll like the movie, but doing the Phoenix storyline is to much along with the cure, Beast and Angel. I think they should have just focused on this cure. In fact the phoenix and cure should have been a two parter. i just see a lot of shrot changing here.

 

[tonytr1687]

I can't believe they killed off Scott with no purpose what so ever. I hate that Logan is in scott's place. This movie should have been about Scott and Jean or part 4. I think i'll like the movie, but doing the Phoenix storyline is to much along with the cure, Beast and Angel. I think they should have just focused on this cure. In fanct the phoenix and cure shoyld have been a two parter. i just see a lot of shrot changing here.

I gotta say...I cant wait to hear Kinberg and Penn's reasoning for killing off Cyclops now that we know his death isnt what sets Dark Phoenix in motion. The limited time Marsden had doesnt cut it b/c we know he had a month and a half off from SR, and the Fox parameters argument doesnt cut it unless the parameters were to specifically kill him off, which I doubt.

 

[Victor Creed]

I gotta say...I cant wait to hear Kinberg and Penn's reasoning for killing off Cyclops now that we know his death isnt what sets Dark Phoenix in motion. The limited time Marsden had doesnt cut it b/c we know he had a month and a half off from SR, and the Fox parameters argument doesnt cut it unless the parameters were to specifically kill him off, which I doubt.

I guess all that butt sex with Singer didn't save Cyke now.

But hey, at least you can look back on the other movies and say.....wow....this cyclops sucked anyways.

 

[Nell2ThaIzzay]

I gotta say...I cant wait to hear Kinberg and Penn's reasoning for killing off Cyclops now that we know his death isnt what sets Dark Phoenix in motion. The limited time Marsden had doesnt cut it b/c we know he had a month and a half off from SR, and the Fox parameters argument doesnt cut it unless the parameters were to specifically kill him off, which I doubt.

"We felt that by having Phoenix kill Cyclops early in the movie, it set the stage for just how corrupted Jean Grey had become"

 

[pyromaniac]

We've had slight differences, The Guard... but dedication willingly shows in every post you make.

 

[shadowy_blue]

"We felt that by having Phoenix kill Cyclops early in the movie, it set the stage for just how corrupted Jean Grey had become"

Who said that?

 

[Nell2ThaIzzay]

Who said that?

Nobody, it's my imitation of their response to the reasons behind why they killed Cyclops off... should they kill him off.

 

[shadowy_blue]

Nobody, it's my imitation of their response to the reasons behind why they killed Cyclops off... should they kill him off.

I see. All this Cyclops fate thing in X3 has left me overly paranoid these past couple of days. Man, I can't wait for the 26th.

 

[Victor Creed]

I see. All this Cyclops fate thing in X3 has left me overly paranoid these past couple of days. Man, I can't wait for the 26th.

Man that little 7 minutes they had on Fox last week got me frickin pumped even more so. Thank god I have movie theater connections, FREE VIEWING, w00t.

 

[martinbluther]

Guard, it seems like the crux of your arguments is that because the creators have done a crappy, elementary jop of characterization so far, that we shouldn't blame them now... really?

Imagine if Joshua was given top billing in the OT because he kicked more ass than Moses, or if Lancelot more than Arthur... it's the same paradigm... and the reaction is perfectly sane... It's the easy way to say that the temper unleashed, the animals attacking, the girls gone wild, is the awesome.... But we know that's not true... The truly awesome is when we transcend our nature and when we (as WOLVY has done at his best) transcend our bestial natures to act super-human, which is the reason the X-Men exist... Marvel won't last unless they get this... no matter how much Q hates the X-Men...

 

[The Batman]

the game of guardball is often complex...

 

[The Batman]

and honestly, as much as lumberjack is an complete and utter *******, whats the point of complaining if you folks will still give Fox your money? Seriously.

 

[CapBeerCino]

They made Cyclops disposable by portraying him as an incompetant idiot in X1.

How did they show him as an idiot?

 

[logansoldcigar]

In the movie Jean asks Wolverine to kill her. He's not exacly asking for glory there is he? He's just doing what Jean wants him to do.

Happens in the actual saga. jean re-asserts control for a few moments and asks Wolverine to Kill her. In the comic he cant bring himself to do it. In the movie, it appears he can. if you ask me, the movie version speaks less for Wolverine's character.

 

[logansoldcigar]

I didn't want him to die. But at least he gets some respectful treatment before he goes. And THEN they give him a loophole to come back. But for Cyke? Zilch.

Just out of interest, how do we know that?

How do we know that if X3 makes shedloads of cash, they wont use the alleged after credit scene to justify a claim of Jean only teleported Cyke and Xavier to muir island(due to her subconcious and inner goodness asserting a small measure of control), and Moira didnt know this until she returned from the USA?

 

[logansoldcigar]

I feel bad for Cyclops. But the greatest injustice of this movie is Phoenix being killed by Wolverine. He kills her.... and she DOESNT let him.

As Jean, she asks him to kill her and he doesnt because he cant kill his love. Then at the end she is blasting him full force and he doesnt die.... and he walks up and stabs her and she turns back into Jean and she says goodbye.

HOW DOES HE SURVIVE HER TRYING TO KILL HIM?

It should be that if the Phoenix wants you dead... You're dead. Whether you have regenerative mutant powers or not.

because her sunconcious mind is not giving him the full whack, so she in reality allows him top kill her, thereby making a similar (though not identical) noble and heroic sacrifice to the one she made in the Original story

 

[logansoldcigar]

ohhhhh, im on a roll.
How do we, as members of the general pleblic, not know that james Marsden's contract for SR didnt require him to be available at all times for a certain period of time, and someone making a summer tentpole (ie fox) couldnt devote lunks of screentime to Marsden as he might be contractually obliged to drop the whole thing and dissappear for a moth, or two months, by the WB.

of course, its 99% certain that isnt the case, but we dont know that for sure, do we?

 

[LadyVader]

For ranting and complaining about Gambit please check out
The Official Gambit thread

However, let's keep things in perspective. Poor poor Cyclops.
Ah well... Nachos anyone?