David Finch: "No More Ultimate Comics."

[UK_Stu]

616 Cap hasn't been a soldier for a long time. Yes he was originally a soldier, yes he fought in the WWII, but after he was de-frosted in the 60s he's been a superhero.

Not to say Cap doesn't still have some military characteristics, but he has had years of evolution, since he was last a soldier. He's had years of Marvel time to adapt to his new 'era', he's been involved in epic galactic and earth-shattering events, fought numerous super villains and has become an iconic hero. Its no wonder he no longer acts or thinks like a soldier.

 

[J. J. Jameson]

But if someone doesn't read ANY Ultimate comics, why are they like, "YES! Finally! **** Ultimate comics!" If they don't read them when they're coming out, why the hell do they care if they STOP coming out. They were never reading them in the first place!

I personally hate the fact that for all the video games and movies and such, the Ultimate line is the first place the go to get costumes, parts of the story, etc.

I have no problem blending the two together to make it more accessible to those familiar with one origin story and not another. I mean, look at "Spectacular Spider-Man". It incorporated elements from the movie, Ult. Spider-Man, and Amazing Spider-Man when it told the origin story. So a guy familiar with just the movie could look at it and go, "Oh, hey, I remember that." Likewise a guy who reads Ult. Spidey or ASM could watch it and think, "Yeah, that seems familiar."

What I can't stand, though, is when the Ultimate Line is treated as the definitive story. Especially the costumes. I hate nearly every Ultimate costume. I don't dislike everything about the Ult. titles...for instance, I like that Nick Fury/SHIELD is assembling the Avengers in the movie-verse...because that just makes more sense and is more believable. But once the Ultimate line is gone, maybe we'll see some more respect given to the 616, classic stories. I don't know...call me old fashioned but I can't take it when some dude is watching the X-Men movies and says, "Oh, hey, it's the gay Colossus dude!!"

 

[Darthphere]

The problem with 616 Cap....

Is that there is no problem.

 

[Themanofbat]

Why do the people who hate the Ultimate Universe care if the Ultimate comics stay or go? If they aren't reading them, how exactly would it make a difference either way?

Because if it's gone, then the top notch creators on the Ultimate books can carry over some of that creative goodness to 616 characters that might need the sales boost.

 

[The Question]

Is that there is no problem.

Wrong. The only problem is that he's dead.

 

[Norman Osborn]

Because if it's gone, then the top notch creators on the Ultimate books can carry over some of that creative goodness to 616 characters that might need the sales boost.

Advocating more 616 Bendis are we?

 

[J. J. Jameson]

Wrong. The only problem is that he's dead.

...And yet his book continues to kick like a mule.

Talk about legacy...

 

[THANOSRULES]

616 Cap hasn't been a soldier for a long time. Yes he was originally a soldier, yes he fought in the WWII, but after he was de-frosted in the 60s he's been a superhero.

Not to say Cap doesn't still have some military characteristics, but he has had years of evolution, since he was last a soldier. He's had years of Marvel time to adapt to his new 'era', he's been involved in epic galactic and earth-shattering events, fought numerous super villains and has become an iconic hero. Its no wonder he no longer acts or thinks like a soldier.

He's been involved in "wars" since..he's operated in Iraq and Afganistan solo before his death.

He's been involved in "kill or be killed" situations , even involving the entire destruction of earth.

He's should only be roughly 10-15 years "marvel years" removed from WWII.

He would still very much be a soldier. He was still , as of very recently in marvel time an ACTIVE captain in the US army, if I'm not wrong. He has been active shield.

 

[ironman29758]

I personally hate the fact that for all the video games and movies and such, the Ultimate line is the first place the go to get costumes, parts of the story, etc.

I have no problem blending the two together to make it more accessible to those familiar with one origin story and not another. I mean, look at "Spectacular Spider-Man". It incorporated elements from the movie, Ult. Spider-Man, and Amazing Spider-Man when it told the origin story. So a guy familiar with just the movie could look at it and go, "Oh, hey, I remember that." Likewise a guy who reads Ult. Spidey or ASM could watch it and think, "Yeah, that seems familiar."

What I can't stand, though, is when the Ultimate Line is treated as the definitive story. Especially the costumes. I hate nearly every Ultimate costume. I don't dislike everything about the Ult. titles...for instance, I like that Nick Fury/SHIELD is assembling the Avengers in the movie-verse...because that just makes more sense and is more believable. But once the Ultimate line is gone, maybe we'll see some more respect given to the 616, classic stories. I don't know...call me old fashioned but I can't take it when some dude is watching the X-Men movies and says, "Oh, hey, it's the gay Colossus dude!!"

So what. mARVEL IS MIXING REAL LIFE PEOPLE GIVEN SUPER POWERS. In real life people won't believe Thor is actually a thunder god or CA is actually a solider. So if you destroy Ultimate Marvel is like killing a 4 year old and that's harsh enough as it is. Ultimate Marvel is how I got conected to Movie Marvel, Heroes Reborn Marvel, Marvel Mangaverse, some Marvel fan fic and finally 616 marvel

 

[J. J. Jameson]

So what. mARVEL IS MIXING REAL LIFE PEOPLE GIVEN SUPER POWERS. In real life people won't believe Thor is actually a thunder god or CA is actually a solider. So if you destroy Ultimate Marvel is like killing a 4 year old and that's harsh enough as it is. Ultimate Marvel is how I got conected to Movie Marvel, Heroes Reborn Marvel, Marvel Mangaverse, some Marvel fan fic and finally 616 marvel

I sympathize with Ultimate Marvel at some points...or at least, with Ultimate Spider-Man. Ultimate Spider-Man will always remain my favorite series. It was the first comic I read, and the beginning of an obsession with comics. And like I've said before, Ultimate Spider-Man captured what the goal of Ultimate Marvel was...it kept the spirit of the character there, made the reader familiar with the character, free from a complicated and sometimes intimidating amount of history. When I made took the first steps from Ult. Marvel to 616 Marvel, I could pick up a 616 Spidey book and feel like I knew the character, only the 616 version was a more experienced, more mature version of the Ult. character I'd been reading about. And from there I branched out into the rest of the MU.

But looking at so many of the othe Ult. titles...the characters are so different, would readers crossing over to 616 MU even feel that they were reading about the same character? It's supposed to be "old characters with a new twist", not "Old characters raped beyond regcognition.". (I'm looking at you, Ultimate Cap).

616 Marvel Universe can believe that Thor is a "god". Because to them, what is a god? An alien? A more powerful being? Well, they have no trouble believing in that, not since Galactus and the Silver Surfer visited them, not since the Avengers fought in the Kree/Skrull War, not since the Secret Invasion. 616 Thor isn't so much a "mystical being" as he is a "higher being". He's tangible and he's vulnerable to some extent.

When I see a man crawl on walls, or a woman fly over my head, or Elektra miraculously not mooning the world with every step she takes, I will certainly be able to believe in Thor.

 

[TheCorpulent1]

Not many people in the Marvel universe believe that Thor's a god either, by the way. They think he's just another superhero, just with more of a god complex than most.

 

[J. J. Jameson]

Not many people in the Marvel universe believe that Thor's a god either, by the way. They think he's just another superhero, just with more of a god complex than most.

Very true. Like I was saying...just seems like he's something "higher"...whether he's just another super or alien or whatever. As you put it, a lot is dependent on the way he carries himself ans the way he appears to the public. A lot of the times in the 616 comics you'll see people saying to each other "You think he's really a god?".

 

[TheCorpulent1]

Even Iron Man didn't believe he was really a god until he saw Asgard, and Thor and Iron Man were very close friends in the early comics. I think he still has some doubts to this day (although I think they go away a bit more each time Thor owns his ass in fights).

 

[yenaled]

I did think anyone would say that a solider is meant to be relatable.

Sitting here in my big comfy chair, a nice cup of a tea and a hot sunny day outside... I think being a solider and being at war is one of the least relatable thing I can think of. Especially a solider like Cap, being the figurehead of a whole country.

 

[TheCorpulent1]

The last part is why I don't think Cap's meant to be relatable even to other soldiers. He's not just a soldier--that's where he started, but he grew to essentially be the spirit of the United States as a whole. Even other soldiers in WWII were awestruck by him, let alone today, after he miraculously reappeared decades after he was thought to be dead. You don't get much larger than life than Captain America.

 

[The Overlord]

I personally hate the fact that for all the video games and movies and such, the Ultimate line is the first place the go to get costumes, parts of the story, etc.

I have no problem blending the two together to make it more accessible to those familiar with one origin story and not another. I mean, look at "Spectacular Spider-Man". It incorporated elements from the movie, Ult. Spider-Man, and Amazing Spider-Man when it told the origin story. So a guy familiar with just the movie could look at it and go, "Oh, hey, I remember that." Likewise a guy who reads Ult. Spidey or ASM could watch it and think, "Yeah, that seems familiar."

What I can't stand, though, is when the Ultimate Line is treated as the definitive story. Especially the costumes. I hate nearly every Ultimate costume. I don't dislike everything about the Ult. titles...for instance, I like that Nick Fury/SHIELD is assembling the Avengers in the movie-verse...because that just makes more sense and is more believable. But once the Ultimate line is gone, maybe we'll see some more respect given to the 616, classic stories. I don't know...call me old fashioned but I can't take it when some dude is watching the X-Men movies and says, "Oh, hey, it's the gay Colossus dude!!"

Actually don't mind Ultimate Cap, its not like he replaces 616 Cap or anything. Its interesting to see a more warped version of Cap.

Disagree about one thing, I don't think there are enough twists to the ultimate characters, the Ultimates villains, for example are either carbon copies of their 616 counterparts or not nearly as interesting as their 616 bcounterparts. None of the ultimate villains have any pathos and seem very interchangable. DCUA did a way better job revamping their villains than the UU did.

 

[TheCorpulent1]

Probably because the animated villains are still true to the core of the comic villains.

 

[Anubis]

Ehh, Some more so than others. I thought they did The Rogues all wrong in JLU...though I did like JLU trickster better than the comics version. And Boomer wasn't too bad. In fact, I only think they messed up on Mirror Master and Captain Cold.

Dr. Polaris kinda sucked, and not just because of the costume.

 

[TheCorpulent1]

But, on the other hand, the Weather Wizard was pretty cool (except for the bland-as-hell costume).

 

[Anubis]

Bland-as-hell all around after that original Flash/Superman team up in The Adventures of Superman.

 

[TheCorpulent1]

Well, none of the villains are as good the second time around except for the big'uns.

 

[The Overlord]

Probably because the animated villains are still true to the core of the comic villains.

I don't think that's the problem. Often I think the villains are too similar too their 616 counterparts (really how is Ultimate Electro different from regular Electro?)

The major problem is, they are pretty bland. How many have any sort of motive or back story? Why is Ultimate Electro a criminal?

Ultimate magneto is pretty boring though.

If they wanted to be different from the 616 universe, they could have taken a lame villain (like Trapster or Egghead) and made them more dangerous or they could have given some villain some pathos in the UU, none of the ultimate villains
have any pathos.

 

[J. J. Jameson]

I don't think that's the problem. Often I think the villains are too similar too their 616 counterparts (really how is Ultimate Electro different from regular Electro?)

Ultimate Electro is naked. t: More tushy, you see. Big difference.

The major problem is, they are pretty bland. How many have any sort of motive or back story? Why is Ultimate Electro a criminal?

Ultimate magneto is pretty boring though.

Wasn't Ultimate Magneto, like, a UU-wide threat back in the day? I remember back when I used to read Ult. X-Men (before it went to poop), there were several big stories in which Ult. Mags coulda done some serious damage to the whole UU.

If they wanted to be different from the 616 universe, they could have taken a lame villain (like Trapster or Egghead) and made them more dangerous or they could have given some villain some pathos in the UU, none of the ultimate villains
have any pathos.

Woah...there was a villain called Egghead??

"The power of my yolks compels you!"

 

[The Overlord]

Ultimate Electro is naked. t: More tushy, you see. Big difference.



UWasn't Ultimate Magneto, like, a UU-wide threat back in the day? I remember back when I used to read Ult. X-Men (before it went to poop), there were several big stories in which Ult. Mags coulda done some serious damage to the whole UU.

He's a threat but so is 616 Magento, the problem is he isn't an interesting character, he's a generic vile psychopath with no real motive, he's about as interesting as his Silver age counter part.

Woah...there was a villain called Egghead??

"The power of my yolks compels you!"

Yes there is:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Egghead_(comics)

If Timm can make Clock King an interesting character, surely someone could revamp Egghead. That would be impressive.

Here's an idea I had about him:

Ultimate Egghead:

Dr. Elihas Starr, was once of the top scientists at SHIELD, however, soon he was displaced by Hank Pym and Bruce Banner. He also got very little respect at work, with the other staff nick naming him "Egghead" because of his bookish nature and bald head (his head isn't shaped like a egg in the Ultimate Universe). Tired of the lack of respect he got at SHIELD, Dr. Starr decided to sell SHIELD secrets to the highest bidder, secretly sending out plans for top secret technology to any criminal or terrorist, in exchange for a huge sum of money wired into his Swiss bank account.

 

[TheCorpulent1]

Or they could just bring him back in the 616 universe with a makeover and a halfway decent evil scheme for once. Look at what the Knaufs just did for the Mandarin, a villain who's always been little more than a goofy, arguably offensive cultural stereotype.