David Goyer's Script Discussion

[Cain Estrell]

Had Goyer's version been used, i think there would have been even more unhappy people than there are now, it just isnt the GR i know and love IMO, at least PARTS of MSJ's effort was.

At least the majority of masses whom NEVER even heard of 'Ghost Rider' before seemed to enjoy it, didn't they?

I’ve always loved Blaze during my childhood, and I still do now! Sure, he was never the most morally-upright, virtuous man; I mean, I could still recall a vague image of him leaving dozens of citizens in distress just to save his girlfriend, Rocky (don’t remember what issue that happened, but it did), yet he was still portrayed with a heroic, sympathetic side. He may have been (at times) selfish, and even started to act ruthless once Zarathos’ influence began to take form, but deep down.......he still had a genuine good soul.

Zarathos himself -- for all the violence and the “You fools will DIEEE!” tendency of his, barely resorted to merciless killing (as strange as it sounds, I know!).

^ These qualities were the main redeeming factors of the two characters that made them lovable to me, flawed as they were. As I’m sure the new generations of GR readers will feel the same....

But ALAS! Goyer completely wiped out those traits!!! I hope that all the people who wish this franchise to go ‘darker’ must also realize that ‘dark’ – alone – won’t create a good movie. Sure, all the “Skinner shreds his skin” moments will undoubtedly look cool, but the movie still requires a certain touch for most people to fully enjoy it with; and that’s........heart.

Just by reading the first few pages of his interesting work (plus Bishop2’s startling comments!), it’s obvious that “heart” is what David Goyer’s script clearly lacked.

I’m so glad they kept this monstrosity tucked away.....

 

[Midnyte_Sun]

You guys got it all wrong. Goyer's script was flawed, yes, but it wasn't the final script that would have been used for the movie. In fact, the studio was rewriting the script to appease Marvel and were trying to find ways to make it better.

The biggest problem was that that when Sony got the rights, they insisted the movie be PG-13. When Goyer heard the news he quit the project and MSJ stepped in to take over.

In my opinion Goyer would have eventually created one kick-ass script (as he usually does) and under the right director, it would have been one hell of a movie.

Sony just wanted to make a quick buck and MSJ was the eager tool to do it.

 

[AVEITWITHJAMON]

At least the majority of masses whom NEVER even heard of 'Ghost Rider' before seemed to enjoy it, didn't they?

I’ve always loved Blaze during my childhood, and I still do now! Sure, he was never the most morally-upright, virtuous man; I mean, I could still recall a vague image of him leaving dozens of citizens in distress just to save his girlfriend, Rocky (don’t remember what issue that happened, but it did), yet he was still portrayed with a heroic, sympathetic side. He may have been (at times) selfish, and even started to act ruthless once Zarathos’ influence began to take form, but deep down.......he still had a genuine good soul.

Zarathos himself -- for all the violence and the “You fools will DIEEE!” tendency of his, barely resorted to merciless killing (as strange as it sounds, I know!).

^ These qualities were the main redeeming factors of the two characters that made them lovable to me, flawed as they were. As I’m sure the new generations of GR readers will feel the same....

But ALAS! Goyer completely wiped out those traits!!! I hope that all the people who wish this franchise to go ‘darker’ must also realize that ‘dark’ – alone – won’t create a good movie. Sure, all the “Skinner shreds his skin” moments will undoubtedly look cool, but the movie still requires a certain touch for most people to fully enjoy it with; and that’s........heart.

Just by reading the first few pages of his interesting work (plus Bishop2’s startling comments!), it’s obvious that “heart” is what David Goyer’s script clearly lacked.

I’m so glad they kept this monstrosity tucked away.....

You do realise i was saying i'm glad Goyer's script wasnt used dont you?

Ha ha believe me, i prefer what we got a lot more than what we could have with script. And the movie got both GR and JB pretty close to their CB counterparts IMO.

You guys got it all wrong. Goyer's script was flawed, yes, but it wasn't the final script that would have been used for the movie. In fact, the studio was rewriting the script to appease Marvel and were trying to find ways to make it better.

The biggest problem was that that when Sony got the rights, they insisted the movie be PG-13. When Goyer heard the news he quit the project and MSJ stepped in to take over.

In my opinion Goyer would have eventually created one kick-ass script (as he usually does) and under the right director, it would have been one hell of a movie.

Sony just wanted to make a quick buck and MSJ was the eager tool to do it.

I dont know, Goyer's Blade 3 script was terrible, and his scripts for both Blade and Blade II were changed vastly when being filmed.

 

[Cain Estrell]

You do realise i was saying i'm glad Goyer's script wasnt used dont you?

Ha ha believe me, i prefer what we got a lot more than what we could have with script. And the movie got both GR and JB pretty close to their CB counterparts IMO.

I know, AVE . I was just backing up your post about the kind of GR YOU and I love so much -- that just DIDN’T show in any particular way in this version of Goyer’s script; plus point out the fact that a lot of people became new fans of the comic thanks to MSJ’s version (which BTW, mostly consist of younglings that range between 10 to 14 year olds – including my own).

What we need to understand here is that we, the GR fans of old, are now few & dwindling in numbers (no matter what other guys may think, otherwise). In that sense, at least a PG-13 ‘Ghost Rider’ helped assured that - there will still be new generations of Flameheads who’ll be reading this comic when our time is up (which are, obviously, our children). Had Goyer’s script been used, I can just see the faces of so many parents telling their kids to “Stay away from that book!” whenever they see it in stores ......

 

[Midnyte_Sun]

Kids these days reading Ghost Rider? Ahem...but reading what? The current comic has T&A, foul language, and excessive blood, gore, and violent action. None of which is acceptable for the 10 and 14 year olds. In fact Jack O Lantern decapitated a teenie bopper in the comic.

Obviously even Marvel itself knows that Ghost Rider is dark in nature, it was Sony and Avi who wanted to make it 'fun for all age groups' like Winnie the Poo...but with his head on fire driving a motorcycle seaking honey..err. vengeance...it was just not anything it was hyped up to be.

Goyer has written some fantastic stuff like Batman Begins, Blade 1&2 and as for Blade III...he didn't care at that point what the movie was going to be like - 2 great directors (both of whom would have been GREAT for Ghost Rider)made his stories Gold, he just wanted to have fun and it showed.

 

[Cain Estrell]

Kids these days reading Ghost Rider? Ahem...but reading what? The current comic has T&A, foul language, and excessive blood, gore, and violent action. None of which is acceptable for the 10 and 14 year olds. In fact Jack O Lantern decapitated a teenie bopper in the comic.

Obviously even Marvel itself knows that Ghost Rider is dark in nature, it was Sony and Avi who wanted to make it 'fun for all age groups' like Winnie the Poo...but with his head on fire driving a motorcycle seaking honey..err. vengeance...it was just not anything it was hyped up to be.

Goyer has written some fantastic stuff like Batman Begins, Blade 1&2 and as for Blade III...he didn't care at that point what the movie was going to be like - 2 great directors (both of whom would have been GREAT for Ghost Rider)made his stories Gold, he just wanted to have fun and it showed.

I was referring to the more “superhero-oriented” stories in the seventies that I started in myself – which, as you know – have since been reprinted. I’ve just finished purchasing some of them for my child, awhile back - who loved the movie and, thus, have been begging me to buy some since. Of course, I could NEVER allow her to read the current violent series Dan Way is writing, so as one of the guys at work suggested: “Why not the ones featuring JB in the old days?” So I bought em, and it worked! In time, these kids whom now been exposed to the marvel of GR will become flameheads, themselves – old enough to read even the Vol. 2 and the Vol. 3 series, for that matter.

Personally, I want the 2nd film to be focused more on adult-rated, dark-material myself -- but the fact also remains that Goyer didn’t envision the ideal GR film I crave for – “dark-enough” as it was. Heck, he didn’t even get what the ‘Spirit of Vengeance’ is all about; he just envisioned another ‘monstrous killing machine’ who thinks even the slightest “sin” is already accountable for the electric chair!

Sorry MS , but as much as this franchise needs enough ‘dark’ to please older, more hardcore fans, I don’t think Goyer is the right man for the job, either. I want someone who can envision not only dark, kickass action -- but also a heartfelt-enough style of characterization that faithfully follows what the comics presented – something that can even make J.M. DeMatteis proud!

The Blade trilogy worked despite almost completely being unfaithful to its (then) comicbook counterpart because – quite frankly – the Blade comic was never really that good prior to Goyer’s “improvised” creation. Goyer just happened to envision a much better idea Marvel liked; and adapted it to their world. As for ‘Batman Begins’ well…..heck, almost everyone knows Batman! You don’t even need an encyclopedia to understand what that character is all about, anymore......so the duo of Nolan and Goyer managed.

Perhaps if Goyer only stayed more faithful to the comic version of GR, then I might have been more accepting of him to go write the films. And who knows, maybe...JUST MAYBE.....the studio were indeed trying to improve his work to fit the comic world, better. But the fact remains that Goyer’s wasn’t that enthusiastic when it came to delivering what Ghost Rider was all about. He basically just recycled all of his previous ideas, mixed them into one....and there it is!

Ghost Rider needs to eat burning cinders to survive ???? Jeeeeezz, what a mess........

 

[AVEITWITHJAMON]

I know, AVE . I was just backing up your post about the kind of GR YOU and I love so much -- that just DIDN’T show in any particular way in this version of Goyer’s script; plus point out the fact that a lot of people became new fans of the comic thanks to MSJ’s version (which BTW, mostly consist of younglings that range between 10 to 14 year olds – including my own).

What we need to understand here is that we, the GR fans of old, are now few & dwindling in numbers (no matter what other guys may think, otherwise). In that sense, at least a PG-13 ‘Ghost Rider’ helped assured that - there will still be new generations of Flameheads who’ll be reading this comic when our time is up (which are, obviously, our children). Had Goyer’s script been used, I can just see the faces of so many parents telling their kids to “Stay away from that book!” whenever they see it in stores ......

Oh sorry, i misunderstood you. But yeah your right, people who were not fans of the comic enjoyed this movie, the DVD sales represent that, and so we have some new fans, which is great to see, and if we get a sequel, hopefully it will be even more successful.

Kids these days reading Ghost Rider? Ahem...but reading what? The current comic has T&A, foul language, and excessive blood, gore, and violent action. None of which is acceptable for the 10 and 14 year olds. In fact Jack O Lantern decapitated a teenie bopper in the comic.

Obviously even Marvel itself knows that Ghost Rider is dark in nature, it was Sony and Avi who wanted to make it 'fun for all age groups' like Winnie the Poo...but with his head on fire driving a motorcycle seaking honey..err. vengeance...it was just not anything it was hyped up to be.

Goyer has written some fantastic stuff like Batman Begins, Blade 1&2 and as for Blade III...he didn't care at that point what the movie was going to be like - 2 great directors (both of whom would have been GREAT for Ghost Rider)made his stories Gold, he just wanted to have fun and it showed.

But the scripts for Blade 1 and 2 were quite different to how the movies turned out, Blade III showed what he is truly capable of when left to his own devices and i wouldnt want to see that. IMO GR was vastly superior to Blade III as a movie.

 

[NDX]

Kids these days reading Ghost Rider? Ahem...but reading what? The current comic has T&A, foul language, and excessive blood, gore, and violent action. None of which is acceptable for the 10 and 14 year olds. In fact Jack O Lantern decapitated a teenie bopper in the comic.

As unacceptable as they are, that doesn't change the fact that kids those ages are reading the current run. Several of the kids I work with read the comic and ask me why it's different from the movie they saw.

 

[AVEITWITHJAMON]

As unacceptable as they are, that doesn't change the fact that kids those ages are reading the current run. Several of the kids I work with read the comic and ask me why it's different from the movie they saw.

At least they are reading it, which is good in my eyes, and could possibly bode well for the success of a sequel.

 

[GDM]

Does anybody have the full Goyer script?
If so could you PM it to me please.

 

[Docker2.0]

You guys got it all wrong. Goyer's script was flawed, yes, but it wasn't the final script that would have been used for the movie. In fact, the studio was rewriting the script to appease Marvel and were trying to find ways to make it better.

The biggest problem was that that when Sony got the rights, they insisted the movie be PG-13. When Goyer heard the news he quit the project and MSJ stepped in to take over.

In my opinion Goyer would have eventually created one kick-ass script (as he usually does) and under the right director, it would have been one hell of a movie.

Sony just wanted to make a quick buck and MSJ was the eager tool to do it.

Agreed! They should have the Goyer script for the sequel. Just turn it rated R now cuase I think the character has been established and people may want to see a sequel if Goyer writes it. I think it has potential..............Goyer's script that is.