Script Reviews and Discussion

[BIGGUN]

Came across this at aint it cool news...Harry says he read the production script and gives a brief review: http://www.aintitcoolnews.com/display.cgi?id=19995

"Hey folks, Harry here -- just recently laid my meaty paws upon the production draft of GHOST RIDER. Written By David Goyer with Revisions by Shane Salerno and the most recent revisions coming from Mark Steven Johnson. Personally - I absolutely love David Goyer's hard-R GHOST RIDER script, and when the orders from everywhere came down to making it PG-13 -- well I knew many things would be missing. Upon reading this script though - it has become far more fanciful. Set in Texas (albeit shot in Australia - aka the smaller less macho version of Texas - heh) the film begins in the old west with the cowboy Ghost Rider - then to the seventies and the oh so very young Johnny Blaze - and his story of how he got hooked up with ol horn head. Then it flashes to the modern day where Nick will be taking over the role... The Father of the X-Games... ugh. But there's something wonderful about the doesn't give two ****s attitude where he overshoots his landing to crash, and doomed to always walk away. Originally - the Goyer version was many times more violent, graphic and sad. He turned a visual icon into something far more. I miss that script - here though - he's got more badguys from the books. Folks like BLACKHEART and ABIGOR and the rest of THE HIDDEN. THen there's the CARETAKER and of course there's ol' sctatch himself. As written it'll be a very fun GHOST RIDER - just not the one I wish was made from Goyer's script. It's like - FANTASTIC FOUR - for me, remembering that Michael France draft - which was pretty dead on perfect... and reading the one they have decided to make. It's tragic - but in this case - the script at least is very fun, just not as emotional or brutal or vengeful."

keep in mind he "loves" Goyer's version.....so take that as you will.
regardless its pretty interesting concerning the characters and situations...that is if he has a legit script and not a fake...

 

[skorponok]

Goyer writes emotional scripts??? (a scene or two from zigzag nonwithstanding since it was based on a book)

 

[BIGGUN]

exactly....i was really let down by Goyer's script. i gather Harry liked since it had lots of over the top gore, violence and "gritty" language
but hey thats his prerogative...

 

[emi]

Yup, I agree: the script that Goyer developed with Norrington was really bad and lame with no emotional resonance. If I don't care for the character then I don't care for the movie. 'nuff said!

 

[InVictus]

Goyer/Norrington movies are really focused on "looks" and coolnes of the heroes, but often their characters are too cartoonish and without emotional characterization. GR's script was full of very cool scenes, but most of them were filled with nonsense imho(especially when GR enter on scene, very erratic way, but there was very cool scenes, as when GR dig/melts ot of the truck a guy O_O).... Violence is good, but if it has a strong purpose it works even better, most of GR comics are build like that... the more you can identify yourself in JB feelings, the more his and GR actions on screen get emotional impact, a thing violence only can't get.
I theory, starting from a Goyer/Norrington script then having it corrected by MSJ & co should compensate the action/cool part with the character building part...so at the end we should have now a very balanced/faithful script.. at least i hope so
There's also the question of GRII strong moral code,(don't kill any human being, only make them suffer eventually with penance stare) will it be in the movie? I think so, it's an interesting and big part of GR way of thought.

 

[BIGGUN]

good summation InVictus...i agree completely.
if the audience cant identify w/ the human characters its not even worth it...well maybe a bit as long as GR is in it for 90% of the film
personally im hoping for the "evil" GR from the 70s...or at least show him w/ evil tendencies (and cant remember his past as in the books). what i liked about the original 70s series was how this evil demon was forced to do good by Blaze's strong moral code. as a result both personalities ended up in a bitter fight over possession of the same body and led to alot of interesting situations. ive always liked that classic inner struggle of good vs evil in stories/films....its a area that hasnt been touched on too much in Marvel films.

 

[InVictus]

The "JB tricks GR to do good" could also be in the movie, there isn't incompatibility between the two incarnations issues, if done properly it could rock

 

[BIGGUN]

thats true too...hopefully Mark will have some element of that in the movie

now on to that review by Harry....he said that at the beginning of the film there is a "cowboy Ghost Rider". now is this the Carter Slade old west GR (the one dessed in white on a white horse) or could this be a old west variation of GR? i believe its the latter personally.....would make more sense that way. would show GR has been walking the Earth for a lonnnggg time before Blaze entered the picture. just as it was described in the books.
if thats the case i can see MSJ having a little creative freedom on how he would look...maybe even do the trenchcoat GR w/ hellfire shotgun. that way the modern GR would still look as he should and throw hellfire.

 

[FlameHead]

Something like this you mean?

 

[BIGGUN]

yeah...or like that Bernie Wrightson concept drawing...

 

[FlameHead]

Or the Javier Saltares one... which isn't Cowboy like at all... but there is a trenchcoat.

Edit: It's too big to post. Go here: http://img91.exs.cx/img91/6196/JS06.jpg

 

[BIGGUN]

Or even in the style of Ghostie as done by J. Saltares...a painting which he did on comission for yours truly

lots of ways they could go on this....and all of them would be COOL! heh

 

[totalpackage59]

Biggun the Old Ghostrider on the horse got me thinking , when they were shooting at the cemetery & then on Friday night at Docklands, I saw two horses one a kind of white australian stock horse & the other a larger black horse.Hope this helps you out

 

[BIGGUN]

Biggun the Old Ghostrider on the horse got me thinking , when they were shooting at the cemetery & then on Friday night at Docklands, I saw two horses one a kind of white australian stock horse & the other a larger black horse.Hope this helps you out

hmmm...interesting. it might be possible that the old Carter Slade GR is in there...but if they do show him how will they connect the character to the current demonic GR? wont know until next year probably...ARGGHH!!!

 

[InVictus]

Maybe....Caretaker is really Carter Slade???O_O
Or maybe they're gonna "demonize" him to fit better?
Two horses...one black and one white...the black one could be Mephisto's one...but if instead GR's one?Uhmmm the hellcycle is not "black" as the GRII one, but mostly chromed, so a white horse could even fit as western steed. Maybe Caretaker/Slade did a similar pact with Meph, obtaining different powers/prolongued life, showing that kind of adaptability of Mephisto "gifts" through history that was always somewhat hinted in the comics... ( a "GR legacy" from western to world war, '70 and '90)

BUT.
I don't think well' se the old pale rider as the western GR...probably the LARGE black horse is GR one... white one could be the one of Mephisto.. or Caretaker, if he wasnt the western GR...urgh, i'm frying my brain in this^^;

 

[BIGGUN]

thats an idea that i havent heard of....Caretaker=Carter Slade. interesting idea...
i have heard that one possible idea that Howard Mackie was toying w/ for the final issue of the GR series was that Caretaker was Mephisto in disguise. bizarre...
and yes my brain is cookin' along w/ yours on this situation...heh

 

[Riding Ghost]

There's also the question of GRII strong moral code,(don't kill any human being, only make them suffer eventually with penance stare) will it be in the movie? I think so, it's an interesting and big part of GR way of thought.

No. I don't think demons are generally renowned as having strong moral codes and I don't think this "code" that was much attributed to grk is a big part of the way gr thought. I really think we're talkin demon here, and not the ethical, moral soul of a ancient man -noble kale.

 

[Riding Ghost]

personally im hoping for the "evil" GR from the 70s...or at least show him w/ evil tendencies (and cant remember his past as in the books). what i liked about the original 70s series was how this evil demon was forced to do good by Blaze's strong moral code. as a result both personalities ended up in a bitter fight over possession of the same body and led to alot of interesting situations. ive always liked that classic inner struggle of good vs evil in stories/films....its a area that hasnt been touched on too much in Marvel films.

Yeah- thats what I'm talkin about

 

[Fettstyl]

No. I don't think demons are generally renowned as having strong moral codes and I don't think this "code" that was much attributed to grk is a big part of the way gr thought. I really think we're talkin demon here, and not the ethical, moral soul of a ancient man -noble kale.

Hey RG a pleasure to read your posts......since I've noticed I'm generally in agreement with what you say This time is no exception and I also think what BG was saying is the way to go. However Ghost Rider could also be somewhat moral if, as BG was saying, Blaze was in complete, or near complete control of GR. GR would be moral by way of Blazes control rather than because he's NobleK. I guess it depends on which chapter in Blazes life, i.e. volume 1, they are going with, since as we know Blaze controled GR in the begining, but from about the middle to the end it was a desperate fight for control. I hope for a uncontrollable wrecking machine myself, but I thought I would throw that out anyway in the spirit of looking at it from all sides.

 

[FlameHead]

Came across this at aint it cool news...Harry says he read the production script and gives a brief review: http://www.aintitcoolnews.com/display.cgi?id=19995

"Hey folks, Harry here -- just recently laid my meaty paws upon the production draft of GHOST RIDER. Written By David Goyer with Revisions by Shane Salerno and the most recent revisions coming from Mark Steven Johnson. Personally - I absolutely love David Goyer's hard-R GHOST RIDER script, and when the orders from everywhere came down to making it PG-13 -- well I knew many things would be missing. Upon reading this script though - it has become far more fanciful. Set in Texas (albeit shot in Australia - aka the smaller less macho version of Texas - heh) the film begins in the old west with the cowboy Ghost Rider - then to the seventies and the oh so very young Johnny Blaze - and his story of how he got hooked up with ol horn head. Then it flashes to the modern day where Nick will be taking over the role... The Father of the X-Games... ugh. But there's something wonderful about the doesn't give two ****s attitude where he overshoots his landing to crash, and doomed to always walk away. Originally - the Goyer version was many times more violent, graphic and sad. He turned a visual icon into something far more. I miss that script - here though - he's got more badguys from the books. Folks like BLACKHEART and ABIGOR and the rest of THE HIDDEN. THen there's the CARETAKER and of course there's ol' sctatch himself. As written it'll be a very fun GHOST RIDER - just not the one I wish was made from Goyer's script. It's like - FANTASTIC FOUR - for me, remembering that Michael France draft - which was pretty dead on perfect... and reading the one they have decided to make. It's tragic - but in this case - the script at least is very fun, just not as emotional or brutal or vengeful."

keep in mind he "loves" Goyer's version.....so take that as you will.
regardless its pretty interesting concerning the characters and situations...that is if he has a legit script and not a fake...

So, I haven't commented on this little 'review' yet. I'm not really sure how to take it. I've read it a bunch of times and I can't understand where this guy is coming from? Is he friends with Goyer or something?

I do agree that a hard edged R movie would be great though. I'm not sure how I feel about it being "very fun". Ghost Rider isn't fun... It's intense. I guess there is a human element though. In fact, the success of the movie will depend on that human element.

The rest of the HIDDEN? Interesting development there.

"Just not as emotional or brutal or vengeful."; worst thing I've read about this movie in months. I dont' really agree with this guys opinion but I dont' like this sentence, regardless. Ghost Rider is emotional, brutal. He IS vengeance.

 

[BIGGUN]

i wouldnt worry too much about it FH...i dont place a lot of faith in Harry K's talent for script reviews.
keep in mind there are lots of horror films that are conisdered to be fun...as well as being dark and violent. halloween, phantasm, dawn of the dead just to name a few (just naming those since those are my fave ) its possible that GR can be just as dark but still be fun to watch. everything that ive heard sounds like Mark is really trying to stay faithful to the comics...which if its true expect it to be in the same style as the books.

 

[FlameHead]

I have to agree, everything that I've seen and heard so far is tellin' me that MSJ is doin' his best to keep the material from the source. The recent pics of either Nic or somebody in the Ghost Rider get up is aweseom. It really looks like it (if the CG turns out good) could match the Dan Ketch days of his look. The lether jacket and spikes. That's awesome.

I hope to see the Jumpsuit at some point too though.

Screw Harry K. He ain't ****. Pardon the french.

 

[KenK]

Well, I'd have faith in Goyer's material if Norrington were directing. Blade being any indication, Norrington really knew how to work with his stuff. Now, I wouldn't trust Goyer to direct the script himself, but I have a feeling Norrington would have taken out or fixed what didn't work.

However, having seen the Daredevil Director's Cut, I believe that as long as Johnson is given the right amount of leeway, he can really wow some people. It'll be interesting to see how he develops Johnny Blaze as a character, while making the film fun and scary. Yeah, Ghost Rider could probably fare better with an 'R' rating, but the right writer and director can do scary stuff within PG-13 parameters.

 

[Riding Ghost]

Hey RG a pleasure to read your posts......since I've noticed I'm generally in agreement with what you say This time is no exception and I also think what BG was saying is the way to go. However Ghost Rider could also be somewhat moral if, as BG was saying, Blaze was in complete, or near complete control of GR. GR would be moral by way of Blazes control rather than because he's NobleK. I guess it depends on which chapter in Blazes life, i.e. volume 1, they are going with, since as we know Blaze controled GR in the begining, but from about the middle to the end it was a desperate fight for control. I hope for a uncontrollable wrecking machine myself, but I thought I would throw that out anyway in the spirit of looking at it from all sides.

Thanks Fettstyl.
You are correct, it could be a moral Ghost Rider because of Blaze and not Noble, which of course sits better with me, but like you, I would prefer the Ghost Rider from the 2nd half of GRBlaze series, so I didn't get into what you were talkin about.

On another note about the script review. I hope MSJ doesn't try to pack to much into the movie. You got caretaker, Western Ghost Rider, even the hidden. Sounds like there MAY BE too much to cover, I don't know, we'll have to wait and see, but it is a concern of mine.

 

[FlameHead]

I worried about that at one time as well. It was around the time I seen Elektra and noticed that that number of characters do bad things. I think I started a thread about it actually...

Maybe it'll just be sutle references for us hard core-ers.

Well, I'd have faith in Goyer's material if Norrington were directing. Blade being any indication, Norrington really knew how to work with his stuff. Now, I wouldn't trust Goyer to direct the script himself, but I have a feeling Norrington would have taken out or fixed what didn't work.

After Blade: Trinity, I wouldn't let Goyer direct a pepsi commercial. I was really let down by that movie and believe it was his direction most that caused me to feel that way.

He's a brilliant writer, don't get me wrong.