Hoo boy.
MAN OF STEEL has its flaws, script and otherwise.
What strikes me about this debate is that people are sort of simultaneously overthinking and underthinking things at the same time. They're nitpicking some irrelevancies and missing some subtleties. And I think that's largely because a lot of the analysis is designed to support a conclusion about its quality made based on what people wanted to see, VS taking the film for what it is.
A couple of thoughts...some of this has been covered, but I think it probably bears revisiting.
Someone asked what the Kryptonian civil war (it's a coup, as has been pointed out) is about. It's about seizing control of Krypton, because Krypton's leadership was botching things.
He is shown as weak, helpless, DUMB, and afraid.
Also known as “human”.
Herolee, the film kept TELLING us that things were about choice, but the truth was far from it. Clark was told to do everything. Right up until the very end where Zod forced him into killing him. Most of what Clark did involved him having his free will taken away from him.
That’s simply not true. Clark was presented with several sides of the issue, and had to decide how to act for himself. There was choice involved. There may have been logical choices, or choices that we consider "obvious" or "morally right", but Clark still made choices and chose to act or not to act in many respects.
Jonathan Kent’s death was hardly meaningless in terms of its impact on the character. It had an immense impact on Clark. It informed his life choices. Yes, Clark comes across as unsure and a little bit lost in the scene where Jonathan dies. Because he was supposed to be uncertain, and lost, and in great need of his purpose. Because he’s not Superman yet.
I think some here have trouble wrapping their minds around the fact that Clark and his parents are portrayed as flawed and imperfect. But in no way, shape or form can that inherently be considered “bad writing”
The whole “Zod is not a threat thing”…absurd statement. Zod's actions are quite threatening, regardless of his eventual failure/s.
It doesn’t matter whether Clark heard the mother and the son. The point is, Clark knew Pete and Mrs. Ross were there. After what had just happened, the reason for this should be obvious. Clark knows its about what happened with the bus.
Re: the tornado sequence. Really? It's come to this? Whining about specific physics in a science fiction/superhero movie?
The point of the dog is not to make some comment about what’s more important between human and animal life...it’s to show that Jonathan Kent is a GOOD MAN. A gentle man. One who would even risk his life for a dog, or to protect his son, and by extension, the world's interests. That’s it. And to let us see, without any speeches about morality, that for anyt doubts he may have had, this is the type of man who raised Clark Kent.
Re: Goyer, Nolan, etc...I'm pretty sure they complemented each other, in several respects. Aside from the obvious fact that it cannot really be ultimately proven who wrote exactly what in most scripts, there’s also nothing to suggest that there wasn’t a ghostwriter somewhere on THE DARK KNIGHT, or RISES, or MAN OF STEEL, or any movie. Who says Goyer is even responsible for all the content in MAN OF STEEL? One of the problems with assessing the film and its content, as I see it, is that people insist on looking at it as “David Goyer’s work”, instead of analyzing it for what it is. For the content, VS the name of whoever wrote it. Which causes inherent bias and confuses the issue, which is the quality of that work in the first place.
- No Fortress of Solitude;
There quite clearly was, via the Kryptonian command ship.
- Jor-El gets more lines than Martha and Jonathan combined;
1. Why is this inherently a bad thing?
- Jor-El beats up Zod in a fight;
I read through the pages of debate on this, and I just kind of giggled. The movie makes it obvious that Jor-El is no stranger to combat. He has a suit or armor and weaponry. He's obviously got some training and some skill. Its even hinted that he and Zod knew each other. For all we know, they even fought together at some point. The movie never, ever says that Zod is a better fighter, or that he was bred to the best fighter, or anything like that. The way its played, Jor-El more or less surprises them, and Zod is fighting with an unchecked rage due to Jor-El's revelation VS Jor-El's cool, calculating strikes. The fight between them is fairly even until Jor-El surprises him with his skill, gains the upper hand and presses the advantage. It's basic moviemaking.
- Clark becomes a hero because Jor-El tells him it's his destiny to lead humanity into the light in a movie where the theme is supposed to be choice;
Rubbish. Clark becomes a hero because he chooses to be a hero. That is, his actions are those of a hero. You can tell someone something all day. They still have to do it.
- A complete lack of agency for Clark even though he's supposed to symbolise choice;
Again, simply not true.
Apparently lost on people is that some things are left vague on purpose…to make you think about the meaning of certain dialogue and concepts.
The film (wisely) never defines the specific methods and impact of genetic engineering and manipulating. Society and its funneling of people into roles obviously plays a role, not just the genetics. It is never stated that the people of Krypton have no free will…simply that as a society, they do not exercise it, at least in terms of their purpose in life, and Jor-El suggests that this is due to a system of society that imposes this. Which makes Jor-El a rebellious force, and unique on Krypton, along with Lara to some extent.
As far as "Why didn't the council, who was bred to lead, do something?" Because they were created to be politicians, and doing what they do best wasn't productive in the end. Zod flat out says something to that effect, doesn't he? Something about endless debating, etc? There's a nod to modern cultures and the relative ineptitude of their political systems.
• Clark is shown to have a terrible childhood without friends that implies he should be a loner and likely to have psychological problems;
I don't know about "terrible childhood". A hard time with certain things, like many children have. There is nothing to suggest that he has no friends at all. He is supposed to be a loner, so that's on point.
• Jor-El has no reason to terraform Earth when he could just Terraform Mars or Venus;
I think it is stated that Earth has the right mixture of existing atmospheric similarities to Krypton, isn't it? Doesn't Jor-El say something along those lines?
• Lois Lane is brought on to the Kryptonian ship in a manner which left a lot of viewers thinking "huh? why?";
The reason for her being brought aboard was then revealed, and made perfect sense in context.
• Lois somehow arrives to comfort Clark write after he's killed Zod,
even though they've been banging up all over a huge city;
• Clark gets hired at the Daily Planet without any prior journalism experience;
How do you know he has no prior journalism experience? Why does it matter? How is this even relevant to the events of the film?
• The individual lines of bad dialogue, such as "I need to tinkle", "you're a monster Zod, and I'm going to stop you," and "what's terraforming?";
How is that, in any respect, "bad dialogue"? It's simple dialogue, but I don't think it's bad by any objective standard.
• We never see relaxed, loving moments between Jonathan/Martha and Clark;
So you just assume there are none?
• The death of Jonathan Kent is presented in a manner that left a lot of viewers confused as to what was going on;
I didn't think it was that confusing. At all.
• There's a lack of relaxed emotional moments between Lois and Clark to justify them starting a relationship later in the movie;
Right, because Superman and Lois' classic relationship was always forged in "relaxing, emotional moments". Nevermind that they haven't started a relationship yet. Not in the traditional sense.
• Lois and Clark have their first kiss when they are surrounded by death and destruction in every direction and they should be worried as to whether or not their friends and family are still alive;
So?
• Ghost-Jor-El shows up but not Ghost-Lara, which looks silly and mean spirited;
Not really. It's an advanced computer program/AI, not actually Jor-El himself. What would be silly is to make two random computer programs just so Lara wouldn't feel left out.
• The Steve Lombard- Perry White Jenny -Jarwhich scene in the ruble lacks emotional poignancy because the characters are poorly developed;
Yeah...no. Pretty sure anybody with a heart can relate to the crisis they're in and Perry and Steve's actions in context.
• A giant mechanical spider randomly shows up in the Indian Ocean in what is clearly a gratuitous action scene just to give Jon Peters a smile;
It's not a spider. It's a squid more than anything else. And it's not randomly showing up...it's the advanced defenses of the world engine.
• Zod is unmenacing because he never succeeds at anything;
Script problems that could be fixed only with significant changes:
I feel like a lot of people likely died...but I guess if you ultimately fail, you're not a threatening presence?
• Krypton does not come off as a sterile society;
A lot of it certainly does. I don't think it was actually supposed to be a successful sterile society. It was an attempt at one. An attempt that, as we saw, ultimately failed.
• The death of Jonathan Kent is not emotionally poigant because it's not integrated into the broader plot ;
Yes it is. Emotions are down to the person experiencing them, but it is integrated into the broader plot.
• Lois Lane finds out who Clark Kent is in what amounts to under 60 seconds of screen time, and this only feels like a "reveal" because of other Superman continuities where it takes her a while to figure things out;
I don't understand your issue.
• The killing of Zod is not integrated into the script as a major plot point, and thus is only shocking because Superman doesn't kill in other continuities;
Seeing as how it's the villain's exit...yes it is a major plot point. There's a whole battle and escalating tension and violence leading up to it. Pretty sure it was shocking because it was abrupt and brutal and his emotional reaction to what has happened is intense... I don't remember any characters going "But, but Superman doesn't kill!"
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