BvS David S. Goyer IS the Script Writer!

How do you feel about Goyer writing the script for the first Superman Batman film

  • His work on MOS was VERY GOOD. He'll do GREAT.

  • His work on MOS was OKAY. I am Skecptical.

  • His work on MOS was POOR. I feel dread.

  • He NEEDS Affleck's help and guidance to deliver a great script

  • His work on MOS was VERY GOOD. He'll do GREAT.

  • His work on MOS was OKAY. I am Skecptical.

  • His work on MOS was POOR. I feel dread.

  • He NEEDS Affleck's help and guidance to deliver a great script

  • His work on MOS was VERY GOOD. He'll do GREAT.

  • His work on MOS was OKAY. I am Skecptical.

  • His work on MOS was POOR. I feel dread.

  • He NEEDS Affleck's help and guidance to deliver a great script

  • His work on MOS was VERY GOOD. He'll do GREAT.

  • His work on MOS was OKAY. I am Skecptical.

  • His work on MOS was POOR. I feel dread.

  • He NEEDS Affleck's help and guidance to deliver a great script


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Snyder has said Clark isn't a virgin so he has had sex before marriage. And the idea of Clark smoking a cigarette after sex with some random is atrocious. There is no need to turn him into James Bond, just a few seconds in a scene showing him with friends when he's in highschool; or maybe a throw away line of him saying he is going to go hang out with so and so...He should have been shown to have had relationships not one night stands. Aren't Clark's parents supposed to be the reason he grows up to be Superman, in MOS they isolated him and made him believe people couldn't be trusted, so why exactly does he want to help humanity? Because his biological father said so.
Are you serious? If any man has sex and if any man smokes they are James Bond? Well than half of all of us here (or most) are James Bond.

You know consensual sex isn't a bad thing at all right? It is one of those intimate things that between mature and reasonable adults is a connection. And by god Clark needed that, otherwise he would be a 33 year old loner. If all the burden of being alien did not addle his brains, being absolutely friendless and companion-less for 33 years would have certainly addled his brains.
 
The imagery of Clark smoking a cig after sex is off, though.
 
The imagery of Clark smoking a cig after sex is off, though.

Indeed, almost something Frank Miller would add if he ever made a different Superman to the usual stooge. I could see it now, Lois Lane would be a crackw**re and Clark would be a chain smoker because he could take it as his lungs would never get damaged.
 
Because Lois finding out something she's destined to find out in any incarnation sooner rather than later = Just doing away with a constant in Batman's mythology and Bruce Wayne's means of becoming Batman.

Right by that logic, the mythology should just start with Lex Luthor in jail, since we know Superman will defeat him eventually sooner or later.

Snyder has said Clark isn't a virgin so he has had sex before marriage.

There are a lot of developments that have happened off screen.

- Clark is not a virgin;
- Lois is apparently someone who has always been disappointed by men before Clark;

They don't actually show us these developments. They wasted 20-30 minutes on Krypton, and then at the end they had 5 combat scenes:
- Battle of Smallville
- Battle on the Kryptonian ship
- Battle against the Giant Spider in the Indian Ocean
- Battle of the helicopters in Metropolis
- Superman vs Zod
Lasting an hour, when 2 of those 5 battles lasting half an hour would have been sufficient.

Developing Clark, Lois, Martha, etc is a lot more important than developing Jor-El. I didn't buy a movie ticket to see a film about Jor-El, where Jor-El is the biggest hero of the movie. The cause of this? David Goyer's fetish for overly complicated plots, and Snyder's fetish to spend an hour or more on action scenes.

That's why Clark's character was not developed, lost time.

Or if WB just turned into Marvel,copied everything Marvel
The Marvel movies have their own problems, such as an absence of themes and an absence of tension.
 
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The thing that baffles me most is why use Pete Ross and Lana Lang if they wasn't going to play a crucial part in Clarks life. I also don't like a mopey and miserable Clark Kent who doesn't have friends. Clark Kent isn't a loner who cant make friends, his a friendly out going kid who can come across as a little strange sometimes. Goyer and Snyder just don't seem to know what the fundamentals are that make the character.
Lana Lang was totally useless.

I think Pete Ross played a role though. When he stretched out his hand to Clark, after the other kids were bullying him. Pete chose to help Clark get up rather than follow the cool kids.

It's a small thing, but it's a scene of Clark being shown the good in humanity.

I didn't say he never had friends. He was isolated. Isolation does not equal being a friendless loser. Every person has felt alone sometimes, even if they're surrounded by friends and family. There are things that burden us, or that we burden ourselves with, that sometimes set us apart from other people.
Well, in other versions, superior versions, Clark has had great friends prior to Lois: Pete, Lana, Chloe, etc, that works, and makes more sense. For a woman like Lois to fall in love with him, he should be socially well-adjusted.

Whatever. It's better than them working together for five years and her being unable to realize that Superman and Clark are the same person. What's up with that? WHY IS THAT BETTER????? It's a waste of time, and it makes Lois look like a moron.
Who said that Lois should take five years to find out that Clark is Superman? Nice strawman, yes, we all know that would suck.

Ideally, imo, Lois would have suspicions in the second movie, and find out in the third, approximately. One doesn't need to stall for six years like Smallville did, however, a little bit of stalling, some organic development, makes the eventually payoff feel better.

Think Lois and Clark, when Lois says "Who's asking, Clark Kent, or Superman?", a famous line of television.


As for the courtship, if you consider lying and fudging the truth with your partner for years to be a great way to begin a relationship. I personally find honesty and respect to be a better way of handling things. No mind-erasing ****, no bumbling, stupid excuses. No making Lois look like an idiot just for laughs.
Mind-erasing? Another strawman.

The point is that the love triangle for two is fun, and it's a unique aspect of this romance that people love. The way to go forward is not to erase it, but to do it better.

Besides, Lois and Clark aren't married yet. There's still room for courtship and stupid mistakes and arguments and near-death experiences to remind them that they love each other.
We are all filled with excitement at the prospect of David Goyer developing a completely original romance without taking material that is tried and tested from 70 years of mythology.

This is going to put Dirty Dancing and When in Rome to shame.

Yes. Lois-the-idiot has been done and done, and done, and done. No need to keep doing it. We know how it goes. Lois falls for Superman. She works with Clark and wonders why Clark gets all the good bylines on Superman and blah blah. I'm bored just typing this **** out.

I don't need to see that nonsense done for the fortieth time.
We know how everything goes. Let's start the mythology with Lex Luthor in jail and Doomsday already attached to an asteroid floating away from Earth.
 
Actually, it'd be Lois who'd have a "Fortress of Solitude". IF YOU KNOW WHAT I MEAN!
 
Right by that logic, the mythology should just start with Lex Luthor in jail, since we know Superman will defeat him eventually sooner or later.



There are a lot of developments that have happened off screen.

- Clark is not a virgin;
- Lois is apparently someone who has always been disappointed by men before Clark;

They don't actually show us these developments. They wasted 20-30 minutes on Krypton, and then at the end they had 5 combat scenes:
- Battle of Smallville
- Battle on the Kryptonian ship
- Battle against the Giant Spider in the Indian Ocean
- Battle of the helicopters in Metropolis
- Superman vs Zod
Lasting an hour, when 2 of those 5 battles lasting half an hour would have been sufficient.

Developing Clark, Lois, Martha, etc is a lot more important than developing Jor-El. I didn't buy a movie ticket to see a film about Jor-El, where Jor-El is the biggest hero of the movie. The cause of this? David Goyer's fetish for overly complicated plots, and Snyder's fetish to spend an hour or more on action scenes.

That's why Clark's character was not developed, lost time.


The Marvel movies have their own problems, such as an absence of themes and an absence of tension.

Ditto. Snyder's excess meets Goyer's awkward dialog meets Nolan's slavish internal logic (I personally feel like Terraforming being explained feels like a Nolan thing to do.).

And then we wonder why it got panned (though I STILL think it was bashed too much. Lower than Spider-Man 3?)
 
Ditto. Snyder's excess meets Goyer's awkward dialog meets Nolan's slavish internal logic (I personally feel like Terraforming being explained feels like a Nolan thing to do.).

And then we wonder why it got panned (though I STILL think it was bashed too much. Lower than Spider-Man 3?)

I did at the end of the day enjoy MoS more than most of the hollow garbage Marvel/Fox have released. However, it could have been done better, it's better underlying material.

Terraforming should not be explained as it was. It was incredibly condescending. Actually, every single scene with "Carol Ferris" should have been removed. I feel bad for the actress, but... terrible lines.
 
Ditto. Snyder's excess meets Goyer's awkward dialog meets Nolan's slavish internal logic (I personally feel like Terraforming being explained feels like a Nolan thing to do.).

And then we wonder why it got panned (though I STILL think it was bashed too much. Lower than Spider-Man 3?)
It got panned because of the script I think. MOS tried so hard to do so many different things that it ended up failing at everyone of them. The entire story was just an eye roll for me. Who in the whole ****ing world thought of the codex? That **** is worth being in a James Cameron movie.

The movie just felt disjointed and a mess overall.

And again, this was the greatest script Cavill had ever read in his life.
 
The movie makes you wonder, just exactly who is Clark? Does he have an inner life at all? Or is he just a depressed friendless creep?

Atleast 50% of the scenes should have been about Clark, not ****ing codex or whatever that **** was.
 
It got panned because of the script I think. MOS tried so hard to do so many different things that it ended up failing at everyone of them. The entire story was just an eye roll for me. Who in the whole ****ing world thought of the codex? That **** is worth being in a James Cameron movie.

The movie just felt disjointed and a mess overall.

And again, this was the greatest script Cavill had ever read in his life.
Of course Cavill would say that lol. What do you expect him to say "I was going to turn down this job because the script sucked?"

The Codex doesn't make any sense, and I don't get why it was shaped as a skull.

...

The movie makes you wonder, just exactly who is Clark? Does he have an inner life at all? Or is he just a depressed friendless creep?

Atleast 50% of the scenes should have been about Clark, not ****ing codex or whatever that **** was.
Had they cut thirty minutes from the 60 minutes of action sequences, and eliminated Krypton/Jor-El from the plot, that would have liberated a full hour to discuss Clark, Lois, Martha, Jonathan, etc.
 
^ Exactly! Sometimes, I hear that the reason student films tend to be clichéd is that they go out of their way to AVOID being clichéd. Thus they tend to be somewhat predictable, yet not embracing the basic tropes that actually WORK.

MOS kind of had that feeling. It's a Superman origin film aimed for people who didn't want to see a Superman origin film. They should have just sucked it up and Beginsd the movie anyway, going from childhood to adulthood, with the actual plot in the background and only really developing in the third act.

Sure there will be more of an "origin again?" response. But those people would rather see a franchise in which audience doesn't have a movie to bond with the character.

Unfortunately, due to a few iffy character moments (Clark stealing and allowing his father to get taken by the tornado) and a majorly flawed way of handling the action (Supes not appearing to care about other people when he fights) there are many who just think "Superman's a jerk."

Combined this with Lois who dominates the first half and is basically written out of the second half, the implication of Clark having no friends (I'm surprising okay with this. Though I would have liked a fleshed out Ross relationship), a Pa Kent who gives inconsistent moral advice, (But to be fair, in real life people tend to give mixed advice. I don't really know someone who gives good advice all the time.) and supporting characters with little depth to them (Hardy's an exception) and I think it would have been better to just do the origin, but in depth.

I still think a Batman Begins style Superman movie would be the greatest superhero movie made thus far. In hindsight, I feel like Goyer chickened out of trying to match Begins, so he emphasized the world around Superman almost as much as the character. Zack's manic direction doesn't help, but I think he did a better job than most people would have if stuck with the same script.
 
There was too much going on in MOS. We spent too much time on Krypton. Too much rambling about Codex, etc. The character scenes were abrupt. Cut the time on Krypton and extend the character scenes.

They also tried too hard at times to modernize him by borrowing Peter Parker's angst and instilling it in him.

I felt like the movie finally settled down right at the end during the last couple of scenes.
 
It's because it's clear they wanted the SEQUEL to be the TRUE Superman movie, with MOS being the transition into the character we know and love. Ironic, since BB was the truest Batfilm in live action, and Iron Man was Marvel's best origin.
 
Yeah Clark's character was not properly developed. I am sure the film-makers intentions were noble but still came across as misguided.
he was plenty of developed you understood what type of man clark kent was

not to mention he was a different man from the beginning of the film on the oil rig to the final a scene at the daily planet
 
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