BvS David S. Goyer IS the Script Writer!

[godisawesome]

I have to admit, I always have trouble believing people when they start criticizing the Sci-Fi elements. I love the shiznit out of Sci-Fi, and I've always considered Superman to be a Sci-Fi story first and everything else second. He's an alien who fights mad scientists and alien robots and life forms. And I thought the sci fi element here trumped most of the stuff that bores me on the more classic interpretations of the character.

And I'm convinced part of the reason we don't see much of Lana and Clark is because fans like us are supposed to infer they're probably together through most of Clark's youth. And I'm perfectly fine with that.

And one of the strengths of Goyer that I love is his ambition. An ambitious plot gets my mind cranked into overdrive, even if the execution is off. It's why I love POTC 2&3, TDKR, and Thor above pretty much the remainder of other geek films. Goyer seems extremely ambitious in pretty much all his scripts, including the big flops, but I still think a big, thick, plotline and setting kick the butt of a smaller but more focused storyline.

Give me the codex, Snyder's Krypton, and pseudo philosophical mambo jumbo over S:TM anyway. I know I've got a bad taste, but I don't care. I'll throw my money and ruin every critics experience if it means I get more of what I like.

 

[Tempest]

There was too much going on in MOS. We spent too much time on Krypton. Too much rambling about Codex, etc. The character scenes were abrupt. Cut the time on Krypton and extend the character scenes.

They also tried too hard at times to modernize him by borrowing Peter Parker's angst and instilling it in him.

I felt like the movie finally settled down right at the end during the last couple of scenes.

They didn't borrow Peter Parker angst. Pretty much every element from this film was borrowed from comics. A lot of the speeches were borrowed or directly quoted from source material.

To suggest that this is a Clark Kent that is just made-up is stupid. I think the most obvious comics Goyer borrowed from were All Star and Earth One, but there are plenty of others. I even found an article on it the other day:

http://www.hitfix.com/in-contention/10-superman-arcs-to-prepare-you-for-man-of-steel

I know many of you complain that Goyer doesn't understand Superman. I stand by my statement that the same could be said of many of you.

 

[flickchick85]

I think Goyer understands Superman just fine. It's just dialogue and general plot mechanics he's still got a long way to go on, imo. Unfortunately, those two things are kind of essential to screenwriting.

 

[Lily Adler]

I didn't think Clark was Earth One bad, I have a legitimate love/hate relationship with that characterization in general, especially with Clark Kent. As for Goyer, I believe he does understand the Superman character just fine, but I always caught an air of apathy when it came to certain elements of the character such as the glasses disguise.

 

[batfreakforever]

There is and has always been cringe worthy lines in comic books but when they are said in the movies fans go ape s*** about it and just look the other way when it is said in the comic books. Talk about double standards.

 

[psylockolussus]

Goyer needs help! Though I'm not sure if it should be Ben Affleck since they hired Ben to act not to rewrite a script.

 

[Tempest]

I think Goyer understands Superman just fine. It's just dialogue and general plot mechanics he's still got a long way to go on, imo. Unfortunately, those two things are kind of essential to screenwriting.

I'm still not seeing the major problems with the script that cause people to freak out. True, it was a bit uneven, but that was more due to editing than to the script itself. So that's not on Goyer.

There were a few rough patches of dialogue, but I have yet to see a film where there weren't at least a few passages that didn't make me roll my eyes.

As far as plot and themes go, Goyer was fine. There wasn't anything taht didn't make a lot of sense (except the usual stuff, like aliens who speak perfect English and the handwaving that occurs with superhero films). While the film wasn't ground-breaking, it was more complex than most summer blockbusters. There were a few rough patches, as there are in most films, but there was nothing that I saw that was unforgivable or terrible.

What I find in a lot of the complaints is that people wanted all the details of everything. If Goyer had done that, it would have followed the same, very tired formula we've seen repeated dozens of times in the comics and films.

Part of a writer's job when taking on a story that has a long, somewhat confusing history is to find a fresh, new perspective on the old material. Goyer gave us a new Clark Kent, who still made sense based on the context of character.

Clark was bullied and a loner in Earth One. One of my favorite scenes in that series is Clark floating in front of his father's grave, and apologizing for his decision to NOT become Superman, how he fears that becoming Superman will isolate him from humanity even more than he already has been.

In "All-Star" we see the opposite. Superman is the very definition of a hero, ready to sacrifice everything for anyone. In many ways, he was ridiculous as a hero, because he was almost too pure and good.

Goyer was quite clever in marrying the different aspects of Superman together to give us a whole picture of a man that most people are able to relate to: a person struggling to find their place in the world, seeking to find out where their talents can best be used, and to somehow still end up happy at the end of the day.

And this is a Clark Kent that I actually really like. He's a superhero I'd want to actually hang out with. Maybe watch a football game with him until he has to trot off to save someone...he's cool, and also a little adorable at the same time. I can't remember a time when I thought of a superhero in that way.

I will say that the film had some problems. BUT I think that people are being unfairly harsh on Goyer -- and it has less to do with his lack of talent, and more to do with the fact that people have a difficult time accepting changes to the formula of Superman.

 

[manofsteel4life]

Well said Temp

 

[D.P.]

I honestly didn't know so many people here attended film school. Go figure...

 

[Gianakin_]

Why not someone talented?

Yes. Kevin Smith.

 

[Gianakin_]

And I couldn't disagree more with everything Tempest said. Goyer did with MoS what he did with The Unborn and especially Blade Trinity. Like, EXACTLY the same mistakes. He grows more ambitious as the years go by, but he never evolves as a screenwriter, which makes his failures seem bigger.

 

[DA_Champion]

And I couldn't disagree more with everything Tempest said. Goyer did with MoS what he did with The Unborn and especially Blade Trinity. Like, EXACTLY the same mistakes. He grows more ambitious as the years go by, but he never evolves as a screenwriter, which makes his failures seem bigger.

Try and visualise a Batman/Superman script which is a 10/10 for ambition and a 0/10 for execution.

Here goes:

- Gotham and Metropolis make a tale of two cities metaphor
- Batman and Superman first fight, masterminded by lex luthor, then they team up and defeat Mr. Freeze and Metallo
- Lois shows up at every confrontation

Can you come up with other ideas that won't work if they're limited to 30 seconds of screen time?

 

[DA_Champion]

I know many of you complain that Goyer doesn't understand Superman. I stand by my statement that the same could be said of many of you.

Perhaps, but Goyer is the one being paid millions of dollars to be the master strategist of a billion dollar franchise, not us.

 

[The Silent Traveler]

As I read these posts, I'm like "Whoa, fans are hard on him." Honestly, it's not fair to bash him. I'm kinda tired to see the negativity in this thread. Why is some fans nitpicking on the very unnecessary and unimportant details like dialogue issues?

I'm not a non comic book or a superhero fan. I want to interact with fans on this forum for expanding my knowledge. I understand that everyone are entitled to their opinion on questioning his writing skills or approach on Superman.

Honestly, I still don't understand why some bash him unfairly. Please cut him a slack. In my opinion, fans act like they know everything about the filmmaking. Come on, fans should have some fun with watching their favorite superhero movies and it's too short to enjoy the movie in their lifetime. It's just a MOVIE for sake!

 

[TheBat812]

Look, Superman is an incredibly simple character to get the core of, but everybody's got their own looking glass, and we are viewing these films through Goyers. It might might not ring with your own direct vision, but he clearly 'gets' the character, and this is just his version. It sounds ignorant to say 'he doesn't get him.' Instead be reasonable, and say, "it's not what I'd like personally for Superman." It would be different if nobody liked the version, but it's clear that a lot of people very much appreciate it.

 

[D.P.]

fans act like they know everything about the filmmaking.

fans act like they know everything about the filmmaking.

fans act like they know everything about the filmmaking.

With that being said...

 

[Gianakin_]

It's just a MOVIE for sake!

And we're just TYPING for sake!

 

[Gianakin_]

Look, Superman is an incredibly simple character to get the core of, but everybody's got their own looking glass, and we are viewing these films through Goyers. It might might not ring with your own direct vision, but he clearly 'gets' the character, and this is just his version. It sounds ignorant to say 'he doesn't get him.' Instead be reasonable, and say, "it's not what I'd like personally for Superman." It would be different if nobody liked the version, but it's clear that a lot of people very much appreciate it.

You know what the funny thing is? Some of us aren't even criticizing it as a Superman movie, but as a movie in general. I liked the mythos presented, the way Superman was characterized in general and I found it pretty faithful to the comics (the ones I've read, anyway).

 

[Project862006]

i honestly had no problem with the script at all

what i had a problem with was the pace and editing

 

[The Silent Traveler]

And we're just TYPING for sake!

I totally respect your opinion on him. At the same time, I can't help feeling that the way you feel toward him on your posts is unfairly harsh.

 

[Gianakin_]

I totally respect your opinion on him. At the same time, I can't help feeling that the way you feel toward him on your posts is unfairly harsh.

This is a bit contradictory.

Besides, I'd sell half my social circle to grab a beer with him and talk about comics and his experiences in this business. But as I analyze MoS, it's just the flaws I see. I'm not out to get the guy. He wrote a product they sold me, I'm posting my opinions on it on a public forum where people love, like, kinda like, dislike or hate movies. It just so happens that in this particular movie, it was the script that severly let me down. And he wrote it. I don't see how I'm unfairly anything in any way.

 

[The Silent Traveler]

Okay, Gianakin. I'm apologizing for provoking you. I'm a newbie, coming here to interact with fans. I'm looking forward to enjoy being here on this forum. Again, I respect anyone's opinion including your opinion and at the same time, stating my opinion as well.

 

[Gianakin_]

Eh, it's alright. Believe me, I've felt the urge to post something similar to your initial post on this page SO many times after TDKR, before I left the forum. It's just passion for a movie you like.

As a completely friendly advice, however, I'd totally refrain from calling people out on their knowing or not knowing about filmmaking. Many here are film school students and graduates, a few work in the business professionally but, most importantly, everyone here has his/her own personal tastes and opinions on what they want to see in a film (which variesfrom person to person). Always remember that, if a film didn't satisfy some people, it doesn't stop you from buying its BluRay, popping it in, getting some beer and pizzas (or go for kebab) and having an amazing time watching it.

God knows I'd get cancer if I let people's opinions on the Prequels get to me.

 

[HUMANIMAL]

i also felt the problem was with the editing...a few movies seem to be overloaded instead of focusing on a certain arch and timing in storytelling....it felt like to many cooks where in the kitchen....

 

[CLARKY]

No Goyer please and if he is to write it should be done under heavy supervision.

Exactly, exactly my thought.