The Dark Knight Rises Deacon Joseph Blackfire

[ronny]

Given that the Riddler is not going to show up in this film. A lot of people have had a great time musing over what villain will appear in The Dark Knight Rises.
The suggestions have ranged from the sublime (Hugo Strange) to the downright absurd (Condiment King?! Thank you IMDB).
But one name has been popping up from time to time in these discussions, and if you've ever read The Cult, you'll know all about Joseph Blackfire.
But for the uninitiated, let me tell you a bit about this character...

Deacon Joseph Blackfire is perhaps one of the most twisted characters ever to appear in Batman. He first portrayed himself as a respectable priest and opened up a homeless shelter, Batman thought he was a pretty cool guy.
However, he began manipulating the homeless and told them that he was the Messiah and the reincarnation of an old Native American shaman. In truth, he was a petty thief and a conman.

His army of homeless cultists relocated under the sewers and began a war on crime, all done to win public support and let Blackfire take over Gotham. Which he did, Deacon Blackfire actually did what no one else has done. He broke Batman mentally and actually gained total control of the city.

However, he had no plans beyond that. The man was a psycopath and wanted Batman to kill him and make him a martyr. He's the Batman version of David Koresh and a brilliant, terrifying character. But a massive, massive longshot.

Someone else pretty much summed up his character quite nicely, here's the quote:

The supremely vicious hypocrisy of the Blackfire character, one of the truly malevolent examples of Batman’s Rogues Gallery, is made more potent by the fact that such people – to varying degrees – actually exist. Starlin and Wrightson expertly capture the behavioural traits of such charlatans: the smug self-righteousness, the smirking bigotry, the barely-disguised cynicism and the glint of undiluted hatred in the eye.

So, what do you think? Do you believe that the cult leader is a good villain for this movie? Even though The Cult was far too dark for Nolan's franchise, the character of Blackfire plays on the very real problems that demagogues in our society cause. Adolf Hitler, Jim Jones, Fred Phelps, Joe Blackfire. There's basically the same monster wearing different skins.

Whilst a section of the audience may have secretly rooted for The Joker, I think Blackfire is such a disgusting character that people everywhere will be on the edge of their seats and rooting for Batman to rip him limb from limb.

So...Deacon Blackfire. Your thoughts?

 

[Sith Scotti]

If he is the villain , than I start to worry

 

[Secret Fawful]

It's about time this discussion got moved into it's own thread.

 

[Lungrocket]

LOVE IT! Natch.

 

[ronny]

If he is the villain , than I start to worry

Why is that? Did you not enjoy The Cult?
I was just always amazed that the one guy who really, really 'broke' Batman did not have any special powers of super strength. He was just a Christian fundementalist with a whole heap of shoddy rhetoric.
When Bane broke his back, he still tried to get back in shape, he wanted revenge. But when Blackfire mentally broke him, Batman had to be saved by Robin. He could barely even fight because he was so psychologically ground down.
And it was just the priest who ran the homeless shelter that did that to him. I love that.

 

[Sith Scotti]

Why is that? Did you not enjoy The Cult?
I was just always amazed that the one guy who really, really 'broke' Batman did not have any special powers of super strength. He was just a Christian fundementalist with a whole heap of shoddy rhetoric.
When Bane broke his back, he still tried to get back in shape, he wanted revenge. But when Blackfire mentally broke him, Batman had to be saved by Robin. He could barely even fight because he was so psychologically ground down.
And it was just the priest who ran the homeless shelter that did that to him. I love that.

You go from the Joker to Deacon . Im just not into religious themes .

 

[ronny]

You go from the Joker to Deacon . Im just not into religious themes .

It's not about religion at all.
He claims to be a Christian but secretly bathes in human blood and claims to be hundreds of years old and a Native American shaman.
I think the importance of the character lies in the notion of an 'Anti-Batman'.
Blackfire hates criminals, at one point he even discusses the issue with Batman, but he has no compassion, mercy or humanity. He is completely, utterly insane and venal.
He takes Batman's war on crime and perverts it completely, using criminals as a scapegoat for all the awful things he does during the course of the story.

The 'Anti-Batman' theme seems a popular one. Many of you want Black Mask or Hugo Strange to fill that role. And I agree that they are perhaps the best choices. But I am simply stating that Blackfire also fits into this category - but not in such an overt way.

It has NOTHING to do with religion. That particular story didn't take potshots at Christianity or any other faith and always made it clear that the Deacon was a petty shyster.

 

[Lungrocket]

someone summed it up really well on some other thread about Blackfire...

Mind At Large said...

I'd have to agree. The Cult is one of my top 5 favorite batman stories. Its bloody, gruesome, psychologically appauling, and Gotham city is literally almost destroyed.

Even the US Military cant beat Blackfire. The Joker was trying to break Batman in much the same way, but since their duality is too balanced, batman overcame and wins. But with Blackfire it's on a whole other level.

Both movies focused on the iron will that batman attains, and constantly exhibits throughout his career. What better way to show his still "wet behind the ears" of fighting crime than to have someone come along and actually ruin his whole psyche so early on. It would be an ultimate exhibition of who did it, how he handles it, and how it makes him stronger and into the great Bats we know and love.

Plus, the fact that Blackfire builds a terrorist army out of the same type of people that had slain Bruce's parents, that actually SUCCEEDS where Joker left of in destroying Gotham, is a huge climatic touchdown.

That's epic.

 

[Paste Pot Pete]

While there's many more rogues I'd like to see immortalized on film, I wouldn't be against seeing Blackfire, as long as it suits whatever story Nolan wants to tell.

It's certainly not impossible. Kind of reminds me of X2's use of Stryker (albeit slighly altered). One-shot villain, not a visually memorable classic rogue, but a damn good story.

 

[Lungrocket]

 

[Lungrocket]

 

[Bat-Mite]

I could see a toned down version of that replacing the tumbler, similar to how the tumbler was a toned down version of the TDKR batmobile.

 

[Lungrocket]

I am reposting this piece-meal from other threads since I want these thoughts read here...

Nolan goes for villains that have deeper meanings that tie to the themes of his films.

If RISES deals with religious themes, which the name does have a bit of a religious connotation, like FAITH, HOPE, SACRIFICE, or REDEMPTION, then a villains like Deacon Blackfire, The Reaper, Azrael (hebrew for angel of death) could potentially be a villain that fits in with that theme...

Deacon Blackfire for instance...

Gotham in peril after the events of TDK. Batman is on the run/in hiding, whichever. Considered a murderer and hunted for his crimes.

Gotham is without a hero. They need guidance. People often turn to religion in times of crisis. In steps, Deacon Blackfire, an evangelical con-artist. Gotham's "new hero" who wishes to sheppard the weak.

But in reality he is building an army of homeless followers into a sewer dwelling Cult to do his bidding. He wants to break Batman mentally and does.

He has a few loyal followers. Judson Caspian, could be his right hand man and the Deacon's Reaper, who carries out his killings. Bane, his muscle, someone Deacon helped in there youth and Bane swore allegiance to.

Batman must piece himself back together, mentally and physically RISE up against them.

Batman could think Deacon Blackfire is trying to destroy Gotham like Ra's but in Deacon's eyes, he doesn't want to destroy it, he wants to rule Gotham. Gotham has already been ravaged. "I want to save it. I going to do the job you couldn't"

Think Children of The Corn but on a much grander scale. Or Temple of Doom without the supernatural elements. Deacon and his army of followers start to seize Gotham and block off the boarders. Just his legion of followers. They move into Gotham PD and take control of City Hall, etc.

It could be epic.

 

[Lungrocket]

I could see a toned down version of that replacing the tumbler, similar to how the tumbler was a toned down version of the TDKR batmobile.

I agree.

 

[Lungrocket]

 

[breyfogle_rules]

Great premise. LOVED The Cult as a kid.
One problem...

I like my Bat villains to have a schizo, funhouse-style manic quality.
Both in style and temperament. Crane, Ras, Joker, Riddler, Kyle, Penguin...
They all have it. Freak demons.

Deacon Blackfire is just a pumped priest with a ponytail.

I need more theatrics than that to get off. Same reason I'm not wild about Strange as a villain. Too plain.

Now, if they were minor figures who spawned a much larger, more colorful threat - I'd be all for it.

 

[Octoberist]

Blackfire would be a great villain for the animated series but not for a movie.

 

[Octoberist]

Honestly, is Blackfire, with his one-time only appearance in the 80s, that compelling of a villain?

 

[ronny]

Honestly, is Blackfire, with his one-time only appearance in the 80s, that compelling of a villain?

I'd say so. Mainly due to the fact that he is so genuinely loathesome. He embodies many traits that most people cannot stand.
Preachy, debauched, self-righteous and a pathalogical liar and fraud.
For Batman to rise he needs an enemy that the audience really, REALLY hates. A nasty, bloodsucking leech of a man. The kind of man you'd like to throw together with Gary Glitter in a bamboo cage.

Blackfire was a great example of a very real villain in a very fantastic world. And for that reason I think he's really quite unique in his own way.

Plus, despite being pumped up he's actually a weakling. He barely gets in one shot at Batman and ends up begging for mercy like a frightened child. He really has nothing going for him, no redeeming features whatsoever.

 

[Lungrocket]

Great premise. LOVED The Cult as a kid.
One problem...

I like my Bat villains to have a schizo, funhouse-style manic quality.
Both in style and temperament. Crane, Ras, Joker, Riddler, Kyle, Penguin...
They all have it. Freak demons. Deacon Blackfire is just a pumped priest with a ponytail.

True, but you could bring in the theatricality with his supporting villains or deciples that could be several.

Bane or Killer Croc (since Blackfire is also a sewer dweller) could be some freak that Blackfire nursed back to health and swore allegiance to and could be his muscle.

Judson Caspian aka The Reaper could be another deciple of Blackfires, could be his assassin who carries out his biddings.

 

[Lungrocket]

True, some liberties would have to be taken to make it a PG-13, but Nolan also did some toning down and made YEAR ONE his own.

I'm not saying you have to adapt THE CULT, but its got a great basis for a story for RISES done in an epic cinematic way.

 

[itsthebatman]

Great premise. LOVED The Cult as a kid.
One problem...

I like my Bat villains to have a schizo, funhouse-style manic quality.
Both in style and temperament. Crane, Ras, Joker, Riddler, Kyle, Penguin...
They all have it. Freak demons.

Deacon Blackfire is just a pumped priest with a ponytail.

I need more theatrics than that to get off. Same reason I'm not wild about Strange as a villain. Too plain.

Now, if they were minor figures who spawned a much larger, more colorful threat - I'd be all for it.

Holy s***. Look who's back.
In response to your post (with the exception of Joker) - just how 'colourful' have Nolan's villains been? All men in suits, not too theatrical. Blackfire would actually be a good deal more charismatic than Ra's or Scarecrow was in BB.

 

[itsthebatman]

Honestly, is Blackfire, with his one-time only appearance in the 80s, that compelling of a villain?

Someone said it elsewhere, but Stryker in X2 was a one-shot comics villain also, wasn't he? And a really compelling villain in that film (still one of the top 4 superhero movies ever, with S:TM, SM2 and TDK). It doesn't need an established villain to make a good or great movie - it needs a well-written one.

 

[Lungrocket]

Holy s***. Look who's back.
In response to your post (with the exception of Joker) - just how 'colourful' have Nolan's villains been? All men in suits, not too theatrical. Blackfire would actually be a good deal more charismatic than Ra's or Scarecrow was in BB.

Totally. He could be a bit like Mola Ram from Temple Of Doom.

 

[ronny]

I like my Bat villains to have a schizo, funhouse-style manic quality. Both in style and temperament. Crane, Ras, Joker, Riddler, Kyle, Penguin... They all have it. Freak demons.

I wouldn't really count Penguin or Ras in that list.
Penguin is an immoral, drug-dealing thieving gangster with weird fashion sense and Ras is an immortal eco-terrorist.
Although Penguin is far more unbalanced, but in a controlled way.

And Catwoman is definently not 'schizo'. Not even a little. She might well be saner than Batman.