Dear God. Stick To The Source Material

[Nokio]

I'll grant you that Sam Raimi and Sony have done a stellar job with the Spider-Man franchise but they haven't exactly stuck to the "cource" either. Or am I the only one who remembers the organic web shooter brouhaha??!!t: Now hardly anyone mentions that. Or jumping right over Gwen Stacy, Betty, and Liz Allen as prior Peter Parker girlfriends and going straight to Mary Jane. Or making Otto Octavius a crusading scientist? Or "Power Ranger" Green Goblin? If the changes are handled well enough, the fans eventually come around to accept them. We haven't seen the final product yet for FF: ROTSS so we can only reserve judgement until then. Fox has a lot to make up for though, I'll grant you that.

agreed, but sony stuck to the source material for the most part despite the girlfriends', the organic webshooters(a plus in my book) and the GG costume. you can can sit there and go"this is like the comic" while as F4 some of the changes, like in Doom was done poorly and without merit, none other then the suits following what they think is best, like by looking at things that have worked in other films and applying them , when it's not who the characters are.

 

[Victarion]

^ Well it would be nice but Spidey 3 has a budget rumored to be near 250 million while FF2 might be 150 million. Also there's really no need to spend all that money & make Galactus a big deal when it's not needed to tell the story. Sometimes less...is more.

Its okay if Galactus's body isn't seen, rather his ship, outline, or shadow. What I was saying was to let the realists know that after New York witnessed a human man grow to heights of 60-80 feet, and made entirely of sand, a planet-eater should be old hat for the citizens of the Big Apple.

 

[Advanced Dark]

^ Well if they were to bring Galactus actually down to Earth just imagine the cost of that and really...it's not needed to tell this story. I think a Silver Surfer spin-off movie will require that.

 

[Hunter Rider]

Are you on crack? Where did I say that I hated the FF? No where you numb skull. At least attempt to back your words with facts, like showing me posts where i've said such things. I'm a fan of the f4, but just not what FOX is doing. If you even bothered to look up my name you can see where majority of my posts are. I'm not all over the other boards but this one mainly.

Whatever Advanced Dark is saying I have a right to disagree. Galactus needs to be there, and not some half @sses version. I'm not saying the bank should be broken on him, but he should be done properly. This is exactly the kind of mokey brain thinking that resulted in that mess of the first movie. I've always said that what I've seen of ROTSS have been good. Now even though it looks good those scenes aren't the whole movie, and despite seeing great scenes the picture as a whole can still be garbage.

Why don't you fan boys shut up and learn to read. What he's saying is that it's not needed to spend alot of money just for Galactus. He never said he shouldn't be in the film.

Some of you are just bound and determined to hate this film, so why don't you just go somewhere else and leave the rest of us who want to give this film a chance in peace.

Both of you need to calm down,this is a free speech message board.

 

[Victarion]

^ Well if they were to bring Galactus actually down to Earth just imagine the cost of that and really...it's not needed to tell this story. I think a Silver Surfer spin-off movie will require that.

^I had the impression he would be the main villain of 3, if a 3rd were made, due to having Surfer and so many rumors of Galactus.

 

[Dragon]

^ Well if they were to bring Galactus actually down to Earth just imagine the cost of that and really...it's not needed to tell this story. I think a Silver Surfer spin-off movie will require that.

But you are aware that it wasn't the Surfer but the FF that stopped Galactus, right? The entire point of the story is that HUMANS have to defeat Galactus to prove that Earth is worthy of survival.

 

[Advanced Dark]

^ I understand that Dragon but is all of that needed in this film? I think it's a great intro to the Surfer and a tease of Galactus. I have a feeling he'll be leaving without the Surfer in this film and probably taking another cast member with him as a new herald. What do you think? I think the humans do stop him though because the Surfer loses his power/board and in the TV spot Reed says "leave that to me..." when he talks about how to stop a planet eating monster. Remember.

 

[Morgoth]

All of the most successful Comic book films have been faithful. The FF could've been better, way better. When it comes to comics they need to realize they are making that come to life, don't use the excuse of film is a different medium and you can't do that too close to the book, that's B.S., look at technology now, after The Lord of The Rings, Spider-man, and SinCity etc. there is no excuse.

Respect what it is, the fans want to see that come to life that's what they're asking for not some other person's dumb thoughts on it.

Why do it if you don't want to bring to life what it is.

I want to see those characters, I read the books and go, wow, I wanna' see them come to life then they make a movie and it's like what the hell was that? They aren't there, that's not them.

 

[Carp Man]

Still can't wait to see Dr. Doom on the Surfers surfboard.

 

[Mercurius]

Galactus should be depicted, and depicted like that:

 

[Iron Maiden]

Still can't wait to see Dr. Doom on the Surfers surfboard.

Me neither, and there must been a lot of work done with that. In some of his interviews lately, Julian as stated that he was doing the blue screen stuff for about a month and a half, some of it while he was still shooting Nip/Tuck. So he was on set sooner than anyone let on.

The obvious difference with the Spidey movies is that despite the departures from the source material, good ideas are still generated. Ock was a bit different from the comics, but he was still a compelling character and exciting villain. The order of girlfriends is different, but who cares? The love story is a bit goofy, but somewhat touching. Even though the Goblin was majorly screwed, they hired an actor that made up for the poor design and had reasonably good action scenes. And we know that ultimately the issue with the Goblin's suit was money. Now that raimi has an unlimited budget he's delivering big time.

I think we are on the same page about this and I could not agree with you more about Raimi. I wish Fox had in their stable of directors someone who has as good a grounding in action-bases movies. Raimi brought in a wealth of experience from his prior projects. Tim's heart may be in the right place but for me he still has to prove himself with this picture.

My point is that they did stray from the source in Spider-Man's films but the changes they made were a bit of a gamble and they gambled correctly.

The FF on the other hand don't have this. The changes to Doom resulted in a BAD VILLAIN. Boring powers. Terrible look (Even the Goblin, who I HATED, still looked better than Doom). There was no creativity shown in the realization of any of the characters.

I will have to disagree with you on GG, I really didn't like his look but I have to give Raimi points for going full out and putting him on the glider. I think the look they went for with Doom suffered from the same mindset Fox used with the X characters. Capes were a no no and they put Magneto in sort of an overcoat instead. It looks like they are going for it in the next movie since Julian describes a more Batmanesque look when he is on the surfboard. I think that would be rather amusing, to make the costume all black and sort of dare anyone to say he looks like Darth Vader, who really was based on Doom. The whole miscalculation with Doom can be summed up in Avi Arad's statements on the DVD....they just didn't think that they could pull it off in light of the Dr Evil parody everyone is familiar with. I think that was a major misstep too, that they didn't have the cajones to come up with something closer to the comics and give us this wonderfully twisted and tormented genius who is the Dark Prince of the MU.

 

[thegameq]

All of the most successful Comic book films have been faithful. The FF could've been better, way better. When it comes to comics they need to realize they are making that come to life, don't use the excuse of film is a different medium and you can't do that too close to the book, that's B.S., look at technology now, after The Lord of The Rings, Spider-man, and SinCity etc. there is no excuse.

Respect what it is, the fans want to see that come to life that's what they're asking for not some other person's dumb thoughts on it.

Why do it if you don't want to bring to life what it is.

I want to see those characters, I read the books and go, wow, I wanna' see them come to life then they make a movie and it's like what the hell was that? They aren't there, that's not them.

It really can't get more simpler than that. Not so simple to execute of course, but it seems like their intentions are to only go "so far". Like the Phoenix Saga, once you introduce certain epic elements, you have to go all out and not half-ass the story. That is one of the biggest distinctions between Donner's and Raimi's films; those films go all out and depict the comicbook as it should be. With FF and other comicbook films, you constantly get the feeling that they are going to some how, some way pull up short on doing a fully blown comicbook movie. What are they afraid of? If you just tell the stories with the same perspective or dynamic as the comics you can't go wrong. It will be a hit with general audiences--who have proven time and time again they love extremely well made fantasy films.

Ugh! Why is this so damn hard to do? It is endlessly irritating to see so much great potential go to waste.

I still can't get over how the Phoenix Saga was basically disregarded and thrown away. What a waste of great scifi fantasy story telling.

There is so much incredible potential with the SS's storyline,....I just want it given the full treatment and not half-assed due to budgetary constraints.

Story and Fox have got to deliver the full monty with this film.

 

[Advanced Dark]

Me neither, and there must been a lot of work done with that. In some of his interviews lately, Julian as stated that he was doing the blue screen stuff for about a month and a half, some of it while he was still shooting Nip/Tuck. So he was on set sooner than anyone let on.



I think we are on the same page about this and I could not agree with you more about Raimi. I wish Fox had in their stable of directors someone who has as good a grounding in action-bases movies. Raimi brought in a wealth of experience from his prior projects. Tim's heart may be in the right place but for me he still has to prove himself with this picture.

My point is that they did stray from the source in Spider-Man's films but the changes they made were a bit of a gamble and they gambled correctly.



I will have to disagree with you on GG, I really didn't like his look but I have to give Raimi points for going full out and putting him on the glider. I think the look they went for with Doom suffered from the same mindset Fox used with the X characters. Capes were a no no and they put Magneto in sort of an overcoat instead. It looks like they are going for it in the next movie since Julian describes a more Batmanesque look when he is on the surfboard. I think that would be rather amusing, to make the costume all black and sort of dare anyone to say he looks like Darth Vader, who really was based on Doom. The whole miscalculation with Doom can be summed up in Avi Arad's statements on the DVD....they just didn't think that they could pull it off in light of the Dr Evil parody everyone is familiar with. I think that was a major misstep too, that they didn't have the cajones to come up with something closer to the comics and give us this wonderfully twisted and tormented genius who is the Dark Prince of the MU.

The first film was a safe play by the studio on almost every level and I don't blame them. They pulled it off and made a film that was fun and a franchise that has a lot of potential. It was far from a great film but it's something to build on now that the origins have been dealt with.

 

[Iron Maiden]

I really hope that now they have introduced all the characters, that it is time to throw caution to the winds to coin a cliche. Go for it, Tim and Ralph. We already know that Doom will be flying around with a cape on the surfboard and to that I say "Holy *****!" That is so Jack Kirby. The clips of the Surfer alone had everyone excited. That's another big step up for the next movie. Everything else has been under wraps and I hope to be pleasantly suprised to see a fully realized version of the FF, Doctor Doom and the Surfer on the screen.

 

[Dragon]

^ I understand that Dragon but is all of that needed in this film? I think it's a great intro to the Surfer and a tease of Galactus. I have a feeling he'll be leaving without the Surfer in this film and probably taking another cast member with him as a new herald. What do you think? I think the humans do stop him though because the Surfer loses his power/board and in the TV spot Reed says "leave that to me..." when he talks about how to stop a planet eating monster. Remember.

The thing that I'm at a total loss over is that all of the elements are there in simply telling the Galactus story. There's no need to play around with the surfer and his story per se. Yes, naturally additional elements will need to be added to flesh it into a 2 hour film. But it isn't that big a challenge.

And yes, Galactus really is needed. He adds the grandeur, the epic nature to the story. He's the danger. Not the Surfer. The Surfer is essentially a non-judgmental figure, doing his master's bidding. The FF need to actually confront the TRUE threat. And what's even more ridiculous is that they make the concept of Galactus prevalent in the commerical, but they don't intend to present him? "How do you fight something that can eat planets?" And they don't intend to answer that question?

And by another cast member leaving with Galactus, I assume you're referring to Frankie. Honestly, no. I don't think Tim and Fox would get that complex. And anyway, even to properly show that, we need to see Galactus. Frankie would need to see just how awesome Galactus is to get the idea of what it would be like to serve him.

 

[Dragon]

I think we are on the same page about this and I could not agree with you more about Raimi. I wish Fox had in their stable of directors someone who has as good a grounding in action-bases movies. Raimi brought in a wealth of experience from his prior projects. Tim's heart may be in the right place but for me he still has to prove himself with this picture.

My point is that they did stray from the source in Spider-Man's films but the changes they made were a bit of a gamble and they gambled correctly.

And that's fine. I really don't think that even those of us who are the most extreme purists are against straying from the source material if the heart is maintained, and ultimately the goods are still delivered.

I will have to disagree with you on GG, I really didn't like his look but I have to give Raimi points for going full out and putting him on the glider.

Actually we are in agreement there. My problem is purely with the Goblin's costume, and mostly the static mask. His use of the glider, weapons, even his fighting style were fine.

I think the look they went for with Doom suffered from the same mindset Fox used with the X characters. Capes were a no no and they put Magneto in sort of an overcoat instead. It looks like they are going for it in the next movie since Julian describes a more Batmanesque look when he is on the surfboard. I think that would be rather amusing, to make the costume all black and sort of dare anyone to say he looks like Darth Vader, who really was based on Doom. The whole miscalculation with Doom can be summed up in Avi Arad's statements on the DVD....they just didn't think that they could pull it off in light of the Dr Evil parody everyone is familiar with. I think that was a major misstep too, that they didn't have the cajones to come up with something closer to the comics and give us this wonderfully twisted and tormented genius who is the Dark Prince of the MU.

I'm very interested in seeing the various looks that Julian described. I think at this point, Doom's handling - not the Surfer- is what will make or break this film.

 

[wobbly]

The first film was a safe play by the studio on almost every level and I don't blame them. They pulled it off and made a film that was fun and a franchise that has a lot of potential.

I'm gonna have to disagree with this: First, I don't equate playing it dumb to playing it safe and what they did to Doom in the first movie was ridiculously dumb and damn near killed the film.

Seriously...What is safer? Go with the long running classic of a disfigured genius in self built hi-tech armor or go with a tepid Norman Osborn Clone with skin like Colossus, Electro powers, and an unfortunate tendency to be campishly glib in a confrontation?
For me the safe option would have been the former, the latter something I'd fire the writers for.

So no, I personally don't think they pulled it off. Yes, the film made a profit in spite of generally (and deservedly) bad reviews, but if they had handled it right they could have had a Spider-Man class success on their hands. That the franchise might still hold that potential is down the richness of the source material, not anything Fox did with the first film.

It was far from a great film but it's something to build on now that the origins have been dealt with.

Lets hope so

 

[GhostPoet]

Will there be cake in this movie? If there isn't cake I'm boycotting it!!! I want 616 cake and it better not be altered!!

CAKE DANG IT!!

 

[gerbstat]

Will there be cake in this movie? If there isn't cake I'm boycotting it!!! I want 616 cake and it better not be altered!!

CAKE DANG IT!!

I'm holding out for pie...

 

[gambitfire]

I'm on a diet.

 

[Advanced Dark]

I'm gonna have to disagree with this: First, I don't equate playing it dumb to playing it safe and what they did to Doom in the first movie was ridiculously dumb and damn near killed the film.

Seriously...What is safer? Go with the long running classic of a disfigured genius in self built hi-tech armor or go with a tepid Norman Osborn Clone with skin like Colossus, Electro powers, and an unfortunate tendency to be campishly glib in a confrontation?
For me the safe option would have been the former, the latter something I'd fire the writers for.

So no, I personally don't think they pulled it off. Yes, the film made a profit in spite of generally (and deservedly) bad reviews, but if they had handled it right they could have had a Spider-Man class success on their hands. That the franchise might still hold that potential is down the richness of the source material, not anything Fox did with the first film.

Lets hope so

Go ahead an disagree. One of the producers already said this and I believe Tim Story even said they played the first one safe because nobody was sure how well the characters would be accepted being it heavier on comedy than most.

 

[Kelly]

Go ahead an disagree. One of the producers already said this and I believe Tim Story even said they played the first one safe because nobody was sure how well the characters would be accepted being it heavier on comedy than most.

I don't think that he is disagreeing with you whether they have said this necessarily....I think he is simply saying.....it didn't work, no matter what their reasoning was....

 

[Advanced Dark]

^ Obviously it worked because we're getting a sequel. It was mediocre to me but others loved just as some hated it. It worked well enough to where they have a 2nd opporunity to make it much better.

 

[Kelly]

^ Obviously it worked because we're getting a sequel. It was mediocre to me but others loved just as some hated it. It worked well enough to where they have a 2nd opporunity to make it much better.

We are getting a sequel because it made a large enough profit, that does not in any way equal "it worked...."

Unless you are of the lot that if it makes money it is a great movie....I don't happen to agree with that.....but I am glad that they are getting a second chance.....unfortunately my trust in Fox to be able to make a "great" movie is alittle weak at the moment...

 

[50yroldfffan]

Go ahead an disagree. One of the producers already said this and I believe Tim Story even said they played the first one safe because nobody was sure how well the characters would be accepted being it heavier on comedy than most.

I'm one that has to disagre, safe is not good enough what the first one lacked was creative vision and hard to believe that happen with a comic line so rich in vision and creativity. They only had the best comic artist of all time doing what should have been the story boards "Jack Kirby". Now lets hope they've learned from the first mistake and have found what makes this such a beloved team of super freaks ha ha. I have to admit i like the Surfer shots so far.