Defending the Pro-Registration Side

[Ultra-Herald9]

I think that people are misunderstanding the idea of registration. I don,t think it means you instantly become a slave to your Government but I think it is a way to keep track of "heroes with nothing to lose" cause they will finally have something to lose which is their reputation. Think about it......world shattering threats like the molecule man can just dissapear from radar because his identity is not publicly well known. Secret Identies are weapons against your own people and very powerful weapons indeed.

I think being a hero is a priviledge the comes with certain responsibilities and one of them is moving with the times. With secret identities heroes can turn evil a commit the most evil atrocities and suddenly have a clean slate. Heck if it wasn't for S.H.I.E.L.D. knowledge heroes like Spider-Man could assasinate major world figures then go grocery shopping as Peter Parker.

I personally don't agree with the pro-registration or the anti-side but i can see their points. Where's Galactus when you need him.

 

[The BatDude]

I wanna come to the defense of Reed right now. I just want to get it of my chest like a prom dress. People keep compaining about Reed's action well I'm here to say Millar is doing a ****ing good job. Everyone knows Reed could at sometimes be a bit obsessive just look at FF #48 (Galactus' first appearance) when the sky was filled with sky debris Reed spent hours trying to find what the hell was going on, he didn't eat or rest he didn't even shave. After all these year he still always carried the guilt of turning Ben into the Thing that can't be good for anyone. little guilt goes a long way. And with all what happen to him lately as Willowhugger said earlier about the breakdown. That's just adding fuel to the flame. With this act he could use use his mind instead of his heart like some said in a few post above. That didn't even make since well let explain it, just look at the history of the FF. Reed keeps ****ing up why? Cause he use his emotions instead of his intellect. Like I was saying with this act he could just hide all the pain he had in the past and try to doing something to him right.

 

[Vanguard07]

That's a flimsy excuse for him being written so vastly out of character though.
What you're saying is possible and all but there's practically no precident for it at all.

 

[Xofenroht]

I think that people are misunderstanding the idea of registration. I don,t think it means you instantly become a slave to your Government but I think it is a way to keep track of "heroes with nothing to lose" cause they will finally have something to lose which is their reputation. Think about it......world shattering threats like the molecule man can just dissapear from radar because his identity is not publicly well known. Secret Identies are weapons against your own people and very powerful weapons indeed.

I think being a hero is a priviledge the comes with certain responsibilities and one of them is moving with the times. With secret identities heroes can turn evil a commit the most evil atrocities and suddenly have a clean slate. Heck if it wasn't for S.H.I.E.L.D. knowledge heroes like Spider-Man could assasinate major world figures then go grocery shopping as Peter Parker.

I personally don't agree with the pro-registration or the anti-side but i can see their points. Where's Galactus when you need him.

No, once you register you are expected to be on call in the event that the government needs you. It's sort of like how we have to register for the draft. Well, no...it's not sort of like that...it's exactly like that. If we don't register for the draft we're either put in prison or fined. Considering they have super powers and any government could think of a million things for a super powered individual to do, they are much more likely to be put out there to do the governments will. Sure they get paid for it, but that totally changes who they are.
Once you start getting paid for acts of heroism you are no longer a hero in the purest term. The real heroes are the people who go out there and save lives with absolutely nothing to gain from it. That's why the Anti-Regs are against this. People are telling them they can't save lives just because the government can't control them. It's like telling a guy who knows CPR and First Aid but isn't certified that he can't perform CPR and/or First Aid on someone who needs it.

 

[BrianWilly]

Someone else on another board brought up something that I really thought made a lot of sense.

It probably would have been nice if we were actually dealing with a Registration-Only SHRA, because there could be some actual debate about that, but its quite clear that we're not.

I mean, this relies on the fact that Bendis just doesn't have a totally incorrect idea of what SHRA is, but consider the Nick/Jessica/Iron Man discussion again. Stark is an intelligent fellow, discussing the Registration Act with Luke Cage, who pretty much instantly says he's against it. Further, his superpowered wife and mother of his child is in the room and in the discussion. If there actually truly were a way that Jessica could register her identity and powers and then be left totally alone, why isn't Stark saying that? I mean, how hard is it to say "Jessica, you need to register, but it won't change your life at all. You can still live the same life you lead today after you register." But he doesn't say that.

In fact, all he can say is, essentially, "Trust me, and we'll work this out when it comes to that." Yes, that's perfectly reasonable. I, as a new mother, am going to trust Mr. The Law Is The Law And You Must Follow It to fight for me so that I can get an exemption to the law. Saying "Its not like we're going to make you fight Dr. Doom" just pushes it over the top, because that statement certainly implies that, yes, there will be responsibilities she will be required to take on due to registering.

That's the single largest flaw with the Registration Act. It would certainly seem like having superpowers means you've been conscripted. At no point have we seen a single person who registered and was then left alone. We haven't seen a single character who was, say, a school teacher, who has superpowers but was not a vigilante, that registers and just continues to go about their daily routine. In fact, Iron Man's seemed to indicate that its simply not possible to do that, and that's precisely where SHRA crosses the line into indefensible bulls**t.

 

[Willowhugger]

Actually, the X-men and all of the Ghetto Mutants get left alone until they flee.

 

[Wolverazio]

I am going to have to go back and look, but there is one issue of the whole crossover that comes out and says it...might even be Maria Hill talking to Capt. "When you register, you become a civil servant under the direct control of the President."

Now I'm going to have to go look through all of this and find it, blast it all...

 

[BrianWilly]

Actually, the X-men and all of the Ghetto Mutants get left alone until they flee.

Mostly because Iron Man and SHIELD are scared shtless that they would go over to Cap's side.

 

[LouFerignoDemon]

it's the first step down the slippery slope to fascism.
You can defend it if you want but that doesnt make it right.

With that thought pattern, any form of government is the first step.

 

[LouFerignoDemon]

No; if Thor went evil or started abusing his power or something, I'd want someone, maybe other superpowered "marvels," to stop him.

But the key word here being IF. Not before. You can't accuse people of crimes that they even haven't commited yet. Otherwise it's blatant profiling.

I'd rather have an acting plan. Nobody ever said they'd strike first. The only "first strikes" they've made have been against Cap. Though you could say that they were in current practice, but it was definitely a first strike.


What I wouldn't like is someone with Thor's power level going ape s***, and having the "marvels" one by one respond to the call as quickly as they could, (most of the first ones being the types who couldn't even stand against Thor for five minutes, much less take him down) where most of the big guns necessary to take him down would probably be nigh impossible to find.


But you're right, the key word is if. However, if is a possibility, and should be planned for. Doing anything but is naive and asking of destruction.

 

[LouFerignoDemon]

Yes
Put quite simply i'd rather trust individuals by far than governments.
A group is only as smart as it's stupidest member. It's only as legit as it's most corrupt member. etc etc.
An individual is deffinitely the lesser of two evils.

Actually, individuals corrupt easier. And are usually much more biased, so their intelligence increases slower.

 

[LouFerignoDemon]

No, once you register you are expected to be on call in the event that the government needs you. It's sort of like how we have to register for the draft. Well, no...it's not sort of like that...it's exactly like that. If we don't register for the draft we're either put in prison or fined. Considering they have super powers and any government could think of a million things for a super powered individual to do, they are much more likely to be put out there to do the governments will. Sure they get paid for it, but that totally changes who they are.

It's not like the draft. It's a lot more like a police force, which operates in a near identical manner. You show up for work, do your routes and such, and if an occasion arrives that you're required to do more due to some extremity, THEN you're called in.

At least, until Bendis came along.

Once you start getting paid for acts of heroism you are no longer a hero in the purest term. The real heroes are the people who go out there and save lives with absolutely nothing to gain from it. That's why the Anti-Regs are against this. People are telling them they can't save lives just because the government can't control them. It's like telling a guy who knows CPR and First Aid but isn't certified that he can't perform CPR and/or First Aid on someone who needs it.

That's totally debatable there. The definition of a hero.

And if getting paid instantly makes you a non-hero, the Avengers were "non-heros" for years.

 

[LouFerignoDemon]

Someone else on another board brought up something that I really thought made a lot of sense.

Good point he had. If Bendis didn't f*** s*** up with NA, it would be a totally different story.



Merci monseiur Bendis for being such an ass.

 

[Wolverazio]

Good point he had. If Bendis didn't f*** s*** up with NA, it would be a totally different story.



Merci monseiur Bendis for being such an ass.

Please don't take this as me defending Bendis...that's the last thing I want to do.

But Millar sowed the seeds for this more than Bendis. Bendis merely came out and said it, but Millar has made it very clear in the main mini that the Registration Act says "sign up and fight for the President, or get thrown in jail." Dr. Strange, Luke Cage, etc. all ask point blank if that is what it comes down to and at no point does Iron Man or anyone else say "well you can register and not fight," he merely says it's the right thing to do (or at one point, hopes it is).

So, it's not Bendis' fault (for once). This is how the SHRA is viewed by its creator.

 

[LouFerignoDemon]

Please don't take this as me defending Bendis...that's the last thing I want to do.

But Millar sowed the seeds for this more than Bendis. Bendis merely came out and said it, but Millar has made it very clear in the main mini that the Registration Act says "sign up and fight for the President, or get thrown in jail." Dr. Strange, Luke Cage, etc. all ask point blank if that is what it comes down to and at no point does Iron Man or anyone else say "well you can register and not fight," he merely says it's the right thing to do (or at one point, hopes it is).

So, it's not Bendis' fault (for once). This is how the SHRA is viewed by its creator.

(Don't worry, I believe you're smarter than to defend Bendis on Civil War.)

Actually, before that, the Registration didn't show much of a man hunt as it did AFTER Bendis in NA. Granted, the Registration Act could look like it was going to become a man hunt. Anything of that nature would be. If we didn't have any form of police up until next week, people would argue it's a man hunt to have a police force at all.

Before that, it was simply, "If you want to fight crime, you need to register, and undergo training. Fighting crime without authorization gets you in jail." Not simply having superpowers. Bendis threw that one in, and most likely Marvel will go with that little snafu.


However, at this point, courtesy of Bendis, defending the Registration is beyond anything any logical person can do, if the question is a decent defense against the superhuman population that is acceptable by the people. After all, NOW it is a draft, where before, it wasn't. (Sounds hypocritical, but I still like to believe that Marvel might just kind of forget what Bendis did, but I find it unlikely.)

 

[Wolverazio]

(Don't worry, I believe you're smarter than to defend Bendis on Civil War.)

Actually, before that, the Registration didn't show much of a man hunt as it did AFTER Bendis in NA. Granted, the Registration Act could look like it was going to become a man hunt. Anything of that nature would be. If we didn't have any form of police up until next week, people would argue it's a man hunt to have a police force at all.

Before that, it was simply, "If you want to fight crime, you need to register, and undergo training. Fighting crime without authorization gets you in jail." Not simply having superpowers. Bendis threw that one in, and most likely Marvel will go with that little snafu.


However, at this point, courtesy of Bendis, defending the Registration is beyond anything any logical person can do, if the question is a decent defense against the superhuman population that is acceptable by the people. After all, NOW it is a draft, where before, it wasn't. (Sounds hypocritical, but I still like to believe that Marvel might just kind of forget what Bendis did, but I find it unlikely.)

In all fairness...not really.

The only place that he got to really speak before Millar was Illuminati and even that left it open for Millar to say that people can register without being forced into service (though it is annoying that they're all treating SHIELD as an American agency...). However, even before New Avengers 21 and 22, Millar makes it clear and does not go out of his way to contradict but instead encourage the fact that registrants have to obey the President/government.

It's a nit picky thing and we'll probably both drop it with this or the next post, but I just feel (especially knowing Millar's politics) this is how he always intended the act to be.

Especially since I do know people that DO try to defend it even with all of these clauses.

 

[BrianWilly]

A couple of months ago, this was what Joe Quesada stated on newsarama.

NRAMA: “Inanimate” - Will there be an impact and or mention of teams like Power Pack or characters like Franklin Richards? What does registration mean for them?

JQ: Registration covers anybody who possesses superhuman powers, Inanimate. Franklin has no powers at the moment, so there's no need for him to register. The Power Pack kids would need to register or go underground--we'll see at least how this affects Julie in the… whoops, there I go again.

...

NRAMA: “werehippy” - Does the Registration Act apply to all super-powered people, or only those that are actively engaged in heroics? And if it applies to all people with powers regardless of their level of activity, how is it different from the Mutant Registration Act, beyond not focusing only on mutants?

JQ: It applies to super humans and vigilantes, werehippy. And yes, it is absolutely no different than mutant registration. For once, the whole of the super powered Marvel Universe knows what it feels like to be a mutant.

And this was written pretty long before Bendis put it into New Avengers. At the time I thought it was just Quesada getting certain facts wrong; certainly it wouldn't be the first time. But now that it's literally canon...

I don't think it's arguable that it's just a mistake on the part of Bendis, since Quesada seems to be thinking the same thing.

 

[hippy fascist]

It's not like the draft. It's a lot more like a police force, which operates in a near identical manner. You show up for work, do your routes and such, and if an occasion arrives that you're required to do more due to some extremity, THEN you're called in.

this issue was covered quite clearly in frontline five

wonderman:don't play dumb with me. you know damn well I didn't sign up for a draft...

random shield agent: read the fine print sir, that's exactly what you signed up for.

These guys are not a willing police force, they are a contractually obliged super-powered army underthreat of imprisonment if they break the contract that is the SHRA.

With the police force you can always say this isn't my fight I quit. With the SHRA this isn't even an option since it's not like you can just hand in your powers on the way out

 

[Xofenroht]

this issue was covered quite clearly in frontline five

wonderman:don't play dumb with me. you know damn well I didn't sign up for a draft...

random shield agent: read the fine print sir, that's exactly what you signed up for.

These guys are not a willing police force, they are a contractually obliged super-powered army underthreat of imprisonment if they break the contract that is the SHRA.

With the police force you can always say this isn't my fight I quit. With the SHRA this isn't even an option since it's not like you can just hand in your powers on the way out

I rest my case.

Thanks hippy...

 

[hippy fascist]

Hell it was obvious from the first time cap got threatened by maria hill that this was what the act was about

 

[Wolverazio]

A couple of months ago, this was what Joe Quesada stated on newsarama.

And this was written pretty long before Bendis put it into New Avengers. At the time I thought it was just Quesada getting certain facts wrong; certainly it wouldn't be the first time. But now that it's literally canon...

I don't think it's arguable that it's just a mistake on the part of Bendis, since Quesada seems to be thinking the same thing.

I know off topic but...Franklin doesn't have powers again?

 

[BrianWilly]

He lost them around four or five years ago real world time, I think. It had something to do with Abraxas and Galactus and reincarnating Valeria into Sue's womb again and...stuff.

 

[Grim Goblin]

personally, I feel that a government exist to serve the people and not the other way around.

Now if you want to serve the people, I think it's perfectly fine to do it by yourself and of your own accord. However, if you CHOOSE to work with the government to reach that goal, it's also quite acceptable...as long as you get to CHOOSE .

 

[The BatDude]

personally, I feel that a government exist to serve the people and not the other way around.

Now if you want to serve the people, I think it's perfectly fine to do it by yourself and of your own accord. However, if you CHOOSE to work with the government to reach that goal, it's also quite acceptable...as long as you get to CHOOSE .

John F. Kennedy: ask not what your country can do for you - ask what you can do for your country.

 

[Willowhugger]

Kennedy sadly failed to envision the government where those whom looted it for benefits the most were its leaders.