DeSanto and Murphy off of Transformers 2?

[skorponok]

 

[blind_fury]

Because I like the toyline, and therefore want to collect the fiction. But yes, anyone with half a brain recognizes what the purpose of those comics are...to sell more toys. And no, most of the comic aren't brillant. IDW is getting better with these spotlight series book and these minis. But by and large the comics usually aren't very good fiction.

Anyone with half a brain realizes that most popular fiction was created to sell something.

That alone doesn't make the characters and mythos disposable with no redeeming values. If George Lucas admitted he came up with Boba Fett simply to sell toys would it make the character automatically lame??? wtf kind of logic is this?

Why something is created isn't important. The impact it has on people is what really matters.

I think though you're missing the point. The point is Transformers isn't G1. Transformers is a long line of toys with fiction devoted or created off of those toys. To try to say "G1" and that's all there is to Transformers is not only absurd it shows how little people actually know about Transformers. G1 died a little under 20 years ago, and it hasn't come back. Sure they'll rerelease figures here and there, but there haven't been any new G1 toys since that line ended, no new characters, no new storylines (that don't somehow reboot the original), no new episodes (despite two lines having been unrepresented). That was G1, but Hasbro is not in the business of creating things for nostalgia purposes. They cannot rely on 22+ year old wanting a new Prowl G1 figure these days. That's why every two to three years we get a brand new Transformers with a brand new (often with reissued names) cast in a brand new setting. This is very much why the Transformers Movieverse is it's own thing. Because that's how Hasbro works. You want a G1 movie, go watch TFTM86, because that's it. Hasbro has been creating new properties for years. This isn't Superman where one canonical fiction reigns supreme. Hasbro creates separate and distinct lines so they can sell separate and distinct lines.

blah blah.

Judging an artist's work based on the motives of those who hired him is missing the point. Your the one who's missing the point.

Comics are written to sell paper. I still love dozens of Marvel and DC characters and stories. I don't care why they were created. Who cares? Their impact on people matters not the speculative reasons they were created in the first place. t:


"Don't think!!! Feeeeeel! It is like a finger pointing away to the moon.
Don't concentrate on the finger or you will miss all that heavenly glory." - Bruce Lee

 

[ShadowBoxing]

I just watched a bunch of eps starting with the original miniseries (admittedly, it has been a while since I've done that) with friends the other night. And I gotta say I still disagree 100% with both you and ShadowBoxing. I purposefully looked for this crapness you guys keep talking about... and I just couldn't find it. That show- commercial or not- was great. Sure, there were some inconsitencies... but all-in-all and remembering what was out at the time, that show was and is all types of great.

It's a fun show, but it's a mindless, illogical and petty show with Macgruffin plot devices galore. I mean half the time the energon was taken from somewhere it didn't even make sense that it was taken from.

Megatron came off as a bonafide genius not some idiotic loon (like Skeletor or Cobra Commander).

Lemme ask you, how does a guy who has a shoulder mounted canon capable (apparently) of destroying mountains, always create some lazer or incredible convoluted plan to kill Optimus Prime when literally he could just shoot him be considered a genius in your book . I mean there was one episode called "Attack of the Autobots" where in mid battle Megatron has a device which renders him and Starscream invisible and they use it to put anti electrons in there sleep chambers. Okay, so you're invisible *(and according to you a genius), and yet you DON'T shoot Optimus when you're invisible. Also I used to love how Megatron would just retreat after receiving minor wounds or one shot to the shoulder. Not that it disabled his ability to fight or anything.

Some of his dialog is insanely quoteworthy. It was amazing some of the things he said ("Your knowledge is only overshadowed by..."), when I remember all the cliched things Skeletor and other bad-guys would spout off.

Most dialogue back then was insanely quoteworthy, doesn't mean it's a brillant show. The eighties was the age of one-liners and Arnold Swarzenegger badass quotes. That was nothing groundbreaking for that show, sorry.

Spike talking to Hound about Cybertron. Sure it was quick... but it was dramatic for an afterschool cartoon. I'm still not saying this is Shakespeare, but TF was not only an awesome cartoon *at the time* I think it still holds up well.

“This new planet is rich with sources of energy. But the Decepticons must know this too. So we must find them and stop them.”​

Optimus Prime to the Autobots, More Than Meets the Eye​

Wow...that's the quote. How elegantly that sets the premise and plot.

Hey I got one for the next movie.

Shockwave "The Autobots are on Earth, and they have the Allspark, we must destroy them". Brillant stuff right?

 

[ShadowBoxing]

Anyone with half a brain realizes that most popular fiction was created to sell something.

Most popular fiction is created to sell the fiction. In this case we have a toy company spending money to create a toy commercial. Not the same thing. Not remotely.

That alone doesn't make the characters and mythos disposable with no redeeming values. If George Lucas admitted he came up with Boba Fett simply to sell toys would it make the character automatically lame??? wtf kind of logic is this?

But George Lucas didn't. So that's immaterial.

Why something is created isn't important. The impact it has on people is what really matters.

But Transformers didn't have much of a impact on people, this isn't The Beatles where millions of fans claim a life changing experience from listening to them. This is Tranformers. It gave hyper children a thing to watch and to play with when they were eight. Sure it has a fanbase, so does "My Little Pony"....it doesn't mean it's genius. If Transformers has "an impact on your life" that's somehow seems significant...then you need to get a life.

blah blah.

Judging an artist's work based on the motives of those who hired him is missing the point. Your the one who's missing the point.

They weren't paid to be artists, they were paid to be advertisers. You somehow miss this. Transformers is a nice little 22 minute diversion that makes children beg their parents for more toys. It's not a brillantly plotted piece of work that stands the test of time. If that were the case they'd still be paying David Wise and the people at Sunbow to the 23 season of G1, but they aren't.

Comics are written to sell paper.

Comics aren't the paper company. Comics are written to make money for the comic company, which is an IP (Idea property) company. They are forced to be creative and create something lasting because it needs to sell for the life of that company.

I still love dozens of Marvel and DC characters and stories.

The difference is those characters are made to sell themselves, not to sell something else. You can bet if Stan Lee were written a story to sell action figures the story would be much much different, because it's not his baby anymore. It's controlled from an outside source that dictates the decisions made. Why do you think sex and violence and frank discussions about drugs made it into comics but not into Transformers...because ultimately one show had to appeal to eight year olds (because it was selling a product) and another needed to tell a compelling story (because it was trying to sell stories).

I don't care why they were created. Who cares? Their impact on people matters not the speculative reasons they were created in the first place. t:

But it didn't have an impact. No one in their right mind has had their lives changed by Transformers. It didn't teach me anything of importance. Not like say reading Shakespear did, or Socrates did. You BS WAYYY too much onto a very old, very much over, very much kiddie cartoon show. Sure it's fun, in the same way listening to eighties hair band is fun, but it's not intelligent of life impacting. If thats the case then the person who it impacted or who thought it was genius is either mildly ******ed or far to easily amazed.

 

[ShadowBoxing]

I agree. And it's a worthy critique. But, to belabor that point sorta (IMO) belittles all the good things the show accomplished. Sorry if I misread your post.

Okay, fair. I mistook you for someone who thought the show was deep and meaningful. I do agree it's a fun little show, like most eighties shows were. It's fun in the same way eighties hair band is fun. I'm not going to call it a good show, because frankly it's not...but it is fun.

 

[Vile]

I love it when fanboys seem to think Directors owe them something.

Their tears...delicious.

 

[Figs]

I love it when fanboys seem to think Director's owe them something.

Their tears...delicious.

LMFAO! It's getting late, I should crash soon for work tomorrow. But, it's comments like these that make it worthwhile to stay on just alittle longer.

 

[Vile]

LMFAO! It's getting late, I should crash soon for work tomorrow. But, it's comments like these that make it worthwhile to stay on just alittle longer.

Tee hee.

 

[Oerwinde]

Murphy and DeSanto aren't going anywhere. They own the rights to make a Transformers movie, so without them, there isn't a Transformers movie.

Tom's passion for Transformers was the sole reason this movie even got made. Don was on board because Tom couldn't do it alone and he thought it would make a good movie. If Tom got shut out of the creative process, I think the movie likely suffered because of it.

Bay is a ****.

 

[blind_fury]

I love it when fanboys seem to think Directors owe them something.

Their tears...delicious.

Joel Schumcher logged onto the hype!!!

 

[Vile]

NIPPLES FOR ALL OF YOU!

I'LL MAKE BILLIONS!

AH HEH HAHAAHAHAHAHA!



But, seriously...they really dont owe us a thing. I mean...it's THEIR movie. Joel put nipples on the batsuit and turned it into a 90 min Sixties Batman episode....horrible? Of course...but he can do whatever the hell he wants. What happened? Well, it's universally hated and he'll be forever rememebered as the guy who killed the Batman franchies. Wam, bam, thank ya ma'am.

This is Bay's movie. Like or not, he'll do whatever the hell he wants and us fans be damned... Now I certainly wouldnt compare Bay to ol' Joel...considering what we've seen of Transformers...well, it looks pretty damn cool for a movie based on a toy commerical.

Transformers will make MAD money. Mind blowingly mad money...and I have a feeling casual fans and fanboys alike will contribute - But, if yer really miffed at the whole thing...well, don't see it. It's that simple. I'm sorry Bay couldnt make the film you pictured in your head.

But please...lets not act like the man owes us something...ANYTHING.

 

[blind_fury]

Most popular fiction is created to sell the fiction. In this case we have a toy company spending money to create a toy commercial. Not the same thing. Not remotely.

It is the same thing. Fiction written to increase the appeal of the characters and story to sell something is always the same business. Increase the appeal to sell more stuff.

Your double standard for fiction used to sell toys is just silly.

But George Lucas didn't. So that's immaterial.

You know for a fact that Bobba Fett wasn't created sell toys?

hahahahaa!!! what? did you read George Lusas' mind while he wrote the script and okayed the designs.

This is speculation just like your stubborn assertions that every creative decision made artist who created the Transformers stories and personalties did a bad job simply because money was involved. lolz.

But Transformers didn't have much of a impact on people, this isn't The Beatles where millions of fans claim a life changing experience from listening to them. This is Tranformers. It gave hyper children a thing to watch and to play with when they were eight. Sure it has a fanbase, so does "My Little Pony"....it doesn't mean it's genius. If Transformers has "an impact on your life" that's somehow seems significant...then you need to get a life.

Yeah more elitist snobbery like a jock who attacks some guy for saying Frodo inspired him. And I know your going to say there's so much more to Frodo than there is to Optimus Prime but don't bother. I still admire the character for what he represents. He's my hero. So is Atticus Finch and Batman and Prometheus and Captain America. What you think of these characters and how much you think they should mean to others is meaningless. There are rednecks hate Atticus for what he represents and directors who think Batman is silly and should have plastic nipples and a credit card. Doesn't matter dude.

If you can't understand this then maybe you need to get over yourself and stop judging others for appreciating things you cannot.

They weren't paid to be artists, they were paid to be advertisers. You somehow miss this. Transformers is a nice little 22 minute diversion that makes children beg their parents for more toys. It's not a brillantly plotted piece of work that stands the test of time. If that were the case they'd still be paying David Wise and the people at Sunbow to the 23 season of G1, but they aren't.

You know there are great songs that were written just to sell records right?

oh, I forgot unless a song is considered brilliant by Mozart's standards it has no redeeming value to anyone and is complete disposable.

You're like all the narrow minded clowns who threw away all their Bob Dylan albums because they thought he went commercial during the 60's.

Comics aren't the paper company. Comics are written to make money for the comic company, which is an IP (Idea property) company. They are forced to be creative and create something lasting because it needs to sell for the life of that company.

Comic stories are written to sell comics which are made of paper. TF stories were written to increase interest in toys. Judging those stories based on the motivation of those who hired the artists is dumb as hell dude. Judge the artist's work based on the art itself not the motivations of executives who hired them.

It's really just as silly as saying the Dark Phoenix Saga sucks simply because Chris Claremont was paid to sell more comics. It's the same thing. Your denial of this obvious fact is just getting desperate and sad.

The difference is those characters are made to sell themselves, not to sell something else.

hahaha! Delusional. Wolverine stories were created to sell more X-men comics. He appeared in more comics because the writers knew it would sell more comics. The same reason all popular superheros get more attention from writers than others. To sell more comics.

Your just lying to yourself if you think otherwise.

You can bet if Stan Lee were written a story to sell action figures the story would be much much different, because it's not his baby anymore. It's controlled from an outside source that dictates the decisions made. Why do you think sex and violence and frank discussions about drugs made it into comics but not into Transformers...because ultimately one show had to appeal to eight year olds (because it was selling a product) and another needed to tell a compelling story (because it was trying to sell stories).

I wasn't aware that Stan Lee wrote every memorable story his characters appeared in for the past 50 years. hmmm. Interesting.

But it didn't have an impact. No one in their right mind has had their lives changed by Transformers. It didn't teach me anything of importance. Not like say reading Shakespear did, or Socrates did. You BS WAYYY too much onto a very old, very much over, very much kiddie cartoon show. Sure it's fun, in the same way listening to eighties hair band is fun, but it's not intelligent of life impacting. If thats the case then the person who it impacted or who thought it was genius is either mildly ******ed or far to easily amazed.

I told you already art is made to be interpreted in ways the artist never imagined. If an adult thinks Calvin and Hobbes relates to Fight Club who's to say he's "BSing waaay too much onto it"? If he takes more from the comic or movie than originally intended, FANTASTIC, that's the whole point of art, even pop art.

You sound like Joel Schumacher claiming Phantom of the Opera deserves a better adaptation than Batman because one is more sophisticated. Just a bunch of culture elitist snobbery.

 

[blind_fury]

This is Schumacher's movie. Like or not, he'll do whatever the hell he wants and us fans be damned... Now I certainly wouldnt compare Ed Wood to ol' Joel...considering what we've seen of BatmanForever...well, it looks pretty damn cool for a movie based on a funny book.

Batman Forever will make MAD money. Mind blowingly mad money...and I have a feeling casual fans and fanboys alike will contribute - But, if yer really miffed at the whole thing...well, don't see it. It's that simple. I'm sorry Schumacher couldnt make the film you pictured in your head.

But please...lets not act like the man owes us something...ANYTHING.

fixed.

 

[Alchemyst]

Damn, Bay has my respect, he was keepin it real

 

[Hunter Rider]

I've never met anyone with such terrible selective memory regarding his fandom. He only recounts the worst aspects of G1 without ever acknowledging one single redeeming value.

Maybe he's jealous because G1 gets so much more attention than his beloved rat and cheetah robots. Why else would a self-professed Transformers fan bash Optimus Prime claiming the character is soulless and disposable?

what a joke.

Maybe for the same reasons you think G1 is the be all and end all ? Ive never heard him say that about Prime but i do know he knows more than anyone else about all the variations of the TF mythos

 

[Dotten]

SB said Prime is soulless and disposable?
Man, that's just wrong.

Not only wrong, it's blasphemy.

 

[Avangarde]

But, seriously...they really dont owe us a thing. I mean...it's THEIR movie.

Accept they are making movies for us the viewers, without us they have no business.

 

[Marvin]

Yes he's yellow.

yup...
and he flys around acting like sound wave..cept with more of a gravy voice..

u do me a favour, u watch the movie and u tell me how far off from the original characters true good natured essence he is...


Umm, the 1939 comic was horribly outdated. Even the Superman comics of 70's did not "play out" like the original comic book. Awful argument. Read my signature. Donner's goal was to stay true to the source material not completely alter it to the point where you couldn't recognize Superman. Bay's "Transformers" is just a generic Robot invasion film. There's nothing remotely related to the Transformers about it except the names.

I'm going to assume u've seen it, and not rebut the obvious flaw with that last part as if u didn't...

how is one going to say that bit about the original superman comic(s) being outdated and donner choosing to take a more modern take for the times (reinforced with the fact that even the updated comics of the times changed for the times...cause the 30's were "outdated")...
how can u say that and then a not see how it applies here

for example
the cartoon TF of the eighties...(as with most cartoons back then that have made the transition to appeal to todays audiences (check out the new TF shows)) is dated by todays standards...and if donner can update...why can't bay?

oh because in ur opinion bays stuff has nothing of the old in it?
well unlike donner bay had a problem making live action with characters that were designed for animation for the eighties...humans are a little easier...but still batmans suit doesn't look the way it did in the "eighties" now does it...

 

[Boiiinng]

Because I like the toyline, and therefore want to collect the fiction. But yes, anyone with half a brain recognizes what the purpose of those comics are...to sell more toys. And no, most of the comic aren't brillant. IDW is getting better with these spotlight series book and these minis. But by and large the comics usually aren't very good fiction.

But you just said they weren't fiction? And I'd like to see you tell Don and Simon that they are working their butts off to sell toys. Go to the convention and tell that to their faces.

 

[CFlash]

Okay, fair. I mistook you for someone who thought the show was deep and meaningful. I do agree it's a fun little show, like most eighties shows were. It's fun in the same way eighties hair band is fun. I'm not going to call it a good show, because frankly it's not...but it is fun.

I do think the show was deep and meaningful. Like everything; series, toons, movies, whatever, it had its ups and downs.

It's a fun show, but it's a mindless, illogical and petty show with Macgruffin plot devices galore. I mean half the time the energon was taken from somewhere it didn't even make sense that it was taken from.
Wow...that's the quote. How elegantly that sets the premise and plot.
<snip>
Shockwave "The Autobots are on Earth, and they have the Allspark, we must destroy them". Brillant stuff right?

Something that speaks directly to the human condition or a real-world thing is by definition NOT a Macguffin. To have sentient machines that look like our cars and trucks battle over our planet's natural resources is about as non-macguffin as it gets.

 

[ShadowBoxing]

It is the same thing. Fiction written to increase the appeal of the characters and story to sell something is always the same business. Increase the appeal to sell more stuff.

Your double standard for fiction used to sell toys is just silly.

Actually it's not a double standard. You just said it yourself "fiction is written to increase the appeal or the characters and the story". Correct. It is. Toy commercials are written to "increase the appeal of the toys". That's why Transformers episodes followed a very formulaic, straight forward, cliche', gimmicky plot that only appealled to eight year olds. Their target audience wasn't people who appretiated good story telling and strong characters, it was eight year olds who wanted new toys. HASBRO created that show, a toy company, to expand their profits.

You know for a fact that Bobba Fett wasn't created sell toys?

Yes

hahahahaa!!! what? did you read George Lusas' mind while he wrote the script and okayed the designs.

Considering he wrote both the script and the designs before anyone offered to make toys out of the characters he created, yes I can read his mind at that moment. George Lucas wasn't hired by Hasbro to write a script to push their new toyline, Star Wars. George Lucas conceptualized a movie off of a concept he himself created, with characters he himself created for the sole purpose of selling one things: a script. Transformers isn't like that, they didn't need to sell a good story and thus one wasn't written.

This is speculation just like your stubborn assertions that every creative decision made artist who created the Transformers stories and personalties did a bad job simply because money was involved. lolz.

No, they did a bad job because they weren't made to do a good job. When you're writing a story that is 22 minutes long and simply suppose to showcase toys for eight year olds (actually probably 4-12), you aren't getting paid to write something brillant. And they weren't. They were hired AT WILL of Hasbro. Hasbro paid them to make a toy commercial. You seem to be missing this crucial point. If I'm hired to paint a portrait, I'm not going to bring back some amazing Jackson Pollock painting, I'm bringing back a portrait. Hasbro paid for a toy commercial, and thats what they got.

Yeah more elitist snobbery like a jock who attacks some guy for saying Frodo inspired him. And I know your going to say there's so much more to Frodo than there is to Optimus Prime but don't bother.

Yeah, there is. They aren't even on the same level.

I still admire the character for what he represents. He's my hero. So is Atticus Finch and Batman and Prometheus and Captain America.

Optimus Prime was not a complex, deep and literary character. He gave children someone cool looking to watch in the afternoon when they got home from school. But if he has had an impact on your life then you need to get a life. Those types of comments scare me. Optimus was the same basic leader archatype that was king throughout the eighties. Duke was basically the same, Lion-O, despite his youthful nature was the same type of person. Most agree that Peter Cullen gave the character a certain je nu sais pas, but he wasn't some novel or deep character.

What you think of these characters and how much you think they should mean to others is meaningless. There are rednecks hate Atticus for what he represents and directors who think Batman is silly and should have plastic nipples and a credit card. Doesn't matter dude.

Actually it does. Because most of us can tell the difference between something that is great and something that isn't. Fanboys seem to decry treating things like something they aren't, unless it involves treating their hero like he is Shakespeare...then that's fair game. The truth is, even Nolan creating Batman Begins didn't attempt to treat Batman in some manner unbecoming of Batman. He looked at it as it was, a fairly gritty and seriously toned comic. But if you remember the movie featured a very hokey villainous scheme that involved a "microwave emitter" or some such nonsense. Basically Nolan delivered by understanding the material. You don't understand Transformers. You don't understand it's history, I doubt you've watched it in the last month, you cannot name that many cast members and you avoid giving any specific information or references to your claims. It is a toy commercial. It was aimed at 4-12 year olds. It wasn't genius or groundbreaking. And it was cool because it featured giant f***ing robots (and a stellar voice cast).

If you can't understand this then maybe you need to get over yourself and stop judging others for appreciating things you cannot.

But the thing is, I appretiate Transformers more than you do. So much so I've read all the comics, watched all the shows, invested money in the old toys. That appretiating the franchise. But I'm not going to turn it into something genius or intelligent when (for the most part) it hasn't been.

You know there are great songs that were written just to sell records right?

The Monkees were created by a record company to create music that sold, as are most pop musicians today. Beatles were making music before it was making money...big differences bud.

oh, I forgot unless a song is considered brilliant by Mozart's standards it has no redeeming value to anyone and is complete disposable.

Beatle's songs are still brillant by traditional musical standards.

You're like all the narrow minded clowns who threw away all their Bob Dylan albums because they thought he went commercial during the 60's.

I have several Bob Dylan records thank you very much.

Comic stories are written to sell comics

First thing you've said that's right. Want a cookie.

which are made of paper. TF stories were written to increase interest in toys.

Now think long and hard what audience would be buying toys. And no it's not brillant critics of literary works.

Judging those stories based on the motivation of those who hired the artists is dumb as hell dude.

Then lets judge them by what they are. Are any Transformers stories brillant?...keep in mind I know these episodes a lot better than you do.

Judge the artist's work based on the art itself not the motivations of executives who hired them.

Then get an episode and ask me if it's brillant and I'll point out all the logical inconsistencies, the errors in plot, the lack of character development and you'll whine something about elitist mumbo jumbo and run off.

It's really just as silly as saying the Dark Phoenix Saga sucks simply because Chris Claremont was paid to sell more comics.

To sell more comics you have to create a good story that is engaging and appretiated by it's audience on multiple levels because you're aiming at a literate audience who will be comparing your story writing abilities to that of other writers.

It's the same thing. Your denial of this obvious fact is just getting desperate and sad.

Obvious what? Obvious inconsistencies in the show. Obvious inabilities to set anything but the vaguest of premises. Obvious need to introduce new characters and doing it often in the most gimmicky and plot device ridden fashion.

hahaha! Delusional. Wolverine stories were created to sell more X-men comics. He appeared in more comics because the writers knew it would sell more comics.

He appeared in the pages of incredible Hulk.

The same reason all popular superheros get more attention from writers than others. To sell more comics.

Yes, but I already explained the difference between a writer selling a writing work which stands alone and one that's written for the expressed purpose of selling a product.

Your just lying to yourself if you think otherwise.

You're the king of that around here.

I wasn't aware that Stan Lee wrote every memorable story his characters appeared in for the past 50 years. hmmm. Interesting.

Who said that? I used him as an example

I told you already art is made to be interpreted in ways the artist never imagined. If an adult thinks Calvin and Hobbes relates to Fight Club who's to say he's "BSing waaay too much onto it"?

Any good critic of the english language. YOU HAVE TO PROVE THINGS WITH THE TEXT ITSELF. Kinda like I know Robotech has cold war references because it uses terms like "gun boat deplomacy" and talks about nuclear options as being means of leverage in peace negotiations.

If he takes more from the comic or movie than originally intended, FANTASTIC, that's the whole point of art, even pop art.

But it doesn't make it doesn't make it anything more than it is.

You sound like Joel Schumacher claiming Phantom of the Opera deserves a better adaptation than Batman because one is more sophisticated. Just a bunch of culture elitist snobbery.

Yes, Phantom of the Opera deserves a better adaptation. I don't know why anyone would claim otherwise.

 

[Avangarde]

My head hurts. Don't you two feel like your wasting your breath on each other, if you have not convinced each other by now I can't see it happening ever. It was great entertainment for a while but now its starting to stagnate, arrgh and ya havn't even seen the movie yet sheesh, cant wait until that happens

 

[ShadowBoxing]

Something that speaks directly to the human condition or a real-world thing is by definition NOT a Macguffin. To have sentient machines that look like our cars and trucks battle over our planet's natural resources is about as non-macguffin as it gets.

I wasn't talking about the premise inself (because the use of the word doesn't even make sense in regards to that), I was saying the episodes were Macguffin. Macguffin is a plot device that motivates the characters. Energon is Macguffin. Energon was just something that Megatron used to get powerful, but it never seemed to matter where it came from. They got it everything, Aztec ruins, some weird ass crystal, super computers, Camelot's Court, etc. It didn't really have a consistent use, however as Megatron put it "it is fuel for my power". So we know it had something, in a round about way, to do with Megatron's quest for power. Like in "War Dawn" when Silverbolt says "if Megatron gets that fuel he'll be unstoppable" (apparently Silverbolt didn't care about the space-time continuum ) it's implied that "Energon = somehow Megatron winning". It was never explained how Megatron could win with fuel, or why the Autobots didn't seem to need it as badly (if at all) as the Decepticons did, it was just something for them to fight over.

 

[Marvin]

me either

 

[blind_fury]

I wasn't talking about the premise inself (because the use of the word doesn't even make sense in regards to that), I was saying the episodes were Macguffin. Macguffin is a plot device that motivates the characters. Energon is Macguffin. Energon was just something that Megatron used to get powerful, but it never seemed to matter where it came from. They got it everything, Aztec ruins, some weird ass crystal, super computers, Camelot's Court, etc. It didn't really have a consistent use, however as Megatron put it "it is fuel for my power". So we know it had something, in a round about way, to do with Megatron's quest for power. Like in "War Dawn" when Silverbolt says "if Megatron gets that fuel he'll be unstoppable" (apparently Silverbolt didn't care about the space-time continuum ) it's implied that "fuel = somehow Megatron winning". It was never explained how Megatron could win with fuel, or why the Autobots didn't seem to need it as badly (if at all) as the Decepticons did, it was just something for them to fight over.

ha! I knew he was going to talk about the Camelot and Aztec crystal episodes. This guy would use Bat-Mite to justify Joel Schumacher Batman movies.

"It's not Phantom of the Opera so the Batman characters and story are disposable."

The irony is ShadowBoxing wouldn't recognize any subtext in Charlie Brown let alone classical literature he holds in such high regard.