DeSanto and Murphy off of Transformers 2?

[Spark]

okay....

did he say this

"DeSanto also tried to calm fan fears that the film's costumes will differ from those depicted in the Marvel comic of the same name. "It's tough to translate something that looks good in two dimensions, like Wolverine's mask," DeSanto said. "You see it on a piece of paper and it looks great, but when you try to build it in three dimensions it looks like a bad Mardi Gras mask. To give the mask--and those ears that fly up--weight is impossible."

before or after filming started

i honestly hope i'm not asking too much of u to have some idea where ur getting ur source material

http://www.scifi.com/sfw/issue140/news.html

I don't know. I'm assuming it was before filming took place otherwise Wolverine wouldn't be clad in leather.

 

[bluejake01]

lolz. Who are you defending? Brett Ratner?

The only other director to taunt and attack the fans openly was Joel Schumacher. That's terrible company to keep. Then again they're "birds of a feather". They're both more concerned with selling happy meal and product placement then they are with telling a great story.

Uhm...what? Joel Schumcher NEVER attacked fans. He has on several occasions explained that he wasn't familiar with the material, and was under a lot of studio pressure to make a colorful movie that would sell toys. He didn't write the god awful scripts and was a hired gun after Tim Burton and Michael Keaton walked because of the WB and their bull****. The WB is 100% to blame for the terrible Batman films after Tim Burton walked out.

 

[blind_fury]

Uhm...what? Joel Schumcher NEVER attacked fans. He has on several occasions explained that he wasn't familiar with the material, and was under a lot of studio pressure to make a colorful movie that would sell toys. He didn't write the god awful scripts and was a hired gun after Tim Burton and Michael Keaton walked because of the WB and their bull****. The WB is 100% to blame for the terrible Batman films after Tim Burton walked out.

If you're not familiar with the material you should direct the adaptation.

This doesn't sound like someone who is being forced to put nipples on Batman costumes by a powerful studio.

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m1285/is_n6_v27/ai_19661474

Can we stop pretending this guy is a victim of circumstance. He did a bad Batman movie cause he didn't care and wanted to pretend the fans didn't exist or matter..

 

[dancing_on_fire]

you guys shouldnt read word for word what michael bay wrote, im not calling him a liar but i would like to see the other sides to the story, 30% is alot in my opinion he seems to be twisting words. So yeah im skeptical but I will not call him a liar, he seems like a good director even if he is a bit smug.

 

[dancing_on_fire]

If you're not familiar with the material you should direct the adaptation.

This doesn't sound like someone who is being forced to put nipples on Batman costumes by a powerful studio.

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m1285/is_n6_v27/ai_19661474

Can we stop pretending this guy is a victim of circumstance. He did a bad Batman movie cause he didn't care and wanted to pretend the fans didn't exist or matter..

your totally right, he showed no respect, he even apologized for it, dont defend him, he screwed up big time, his work on batman forever was evidence he was not tim burton nor could he match his talent.

 

[Hunter Rider]

Dude I will never eat my words. I'll never apologize for having standards and demanding a movie that stays true to what inspired fandom in the first place (not just explosions).

I'll never apologize for expecting more than an empty spectacle.

Are you kidding me? t:

Looks like you're in luck then

 

[YÅ«gi's BM]

It sounds to me like Bay just wanted to make it clear this movie was as good or bad as it was because it was his movie and nobody elses.

 

[shigsy2003]

I like that he is straight up but from the things I hear and the script I read...the script is silly. There is no denying that. If Bay stasy I sure hope he approves a much more decent, well rounded script.

 

[zanos]

I wasn't just talking about those two when i said higher ups
-bays notorious for taking risks that studios in general don't like till after the fact

i consider them higher ups in that their producers, in the heiarchy, they're in fact above him


HIS vision within the relm of the universe
last i checked this film has resonated with countless "hardcores"

ur vision, and forgive me for my assumptions(just making a generalized point), was/is a live action version of that 86 movie

his vision isn't that...it's way different but it's pretty much the same thing(characters, homeworld, scale, basic story)

bumblebee being a prime example of this

Yes he's yellow.

donner superman played out nothing like that 1939 action comic, i guess he should have called it something else...maybe meator man or something

theres a difference between exploiting and elevating

Umm, the 1939 comic was horribly outdated. Even the Superman comics of 70's did not "play out" like the original comic book. Awful argument. Read my signature. Donner's goal was to stay true to the source material not completely alter it to the point where you couldn't recognize Superman. Bay's "Transformers" is just a generic Robot invasion film. There's nothing remotely related to the Transformers about it except the names.

 

[Movies205]

To me it sounds completely ridiculous to take any side in this matter because of one simple fact, you just don't know. Not to tarnish Bay's good name, however as people we tend to skew things in a favorable light for ourselves, I'm not saying Bat's lying since he could be telling the truth. Your simply hearing one side of the story. Plus I find it funny since I remember tons of people praising DeSanto as the great messiah, and now everyone's bashing him left and right... Oy... when will people learn, you don't know these people...

 

[ShadowBoxing]

Tom and Don, god love 'em, have been ruining this movie from the start. Lying to everyone about elements in the film. Saying Dan Gilvesan was coming back to do Bumblebee. Claiming this was a G1 project when even Hasbro said "we want this movie to be totally different from all previous and current properties under Transformers". That was just lying through their teeth, and in addition spreading a bunch of untrue rumors about this film. Bad, bad boys.

 

[ShadowBoxing]

Umm, the 1939 comic was horribly outdated. Even the Superman comics of 70's did not "play out" like the original comic book. Awful argument. Read my signature. Donner's goal was to stay true to the source material not completely alter it to the point where you couldn't recognize Superman. Bay's "Transformers" is just a generic Robot invasion film. There's nothing remotely related to the Transformers about it except the names.

Well you'd be right, except you're wrong. Donner was adapting a franchise based on a character who has a single canon universe devoted to him and his history. Transformers is a toyline, any fiction that's existed only existed to push a toyline. G1 is not Transformers, it's a fraction of a toyline that has been ongoing for 20+, mostly because it adapts, refocuses and changes itself drastically. To say G1 is Transformers ignores the fact that Beast Machines, Transtech, Armada, Cybertron, Beast Wars, and even (as of now) Gobots all fall underneath the Transformers umbrella. Hasbro is not in the business of creating relics of 1980s nostaglia, they are in the business of selling toys. Consequently, as the toys change so does the fiction surrounding it. Superman will always be Superman because at the end of the day the only thing DC is concerned with is keeping Superman a lucrative property, and to do that they have to move the character forward in some logical way. Hasbro is interested in selling toys, not old outdated toys from the 80s, but new ones for a new generation. Meaning that every two to three years they are looking at rebooting franchises and recycling names. Optimus Prime has been a truck, a fire engine, a star convoy, a tanker trailer, a bat, a lion, a mammoth and a gorilla among other things. And each one of those characters has something different about him, whether it be in origin or in appearance or in personality, we HAVE NEVER SEEN THE SAME PRIME TWICE. This movie is no different from the slew of properties Hasbro has created over the last 20 years. Just like back in G1 when they killed off two seasons worth of characters, again the show is faced with a new generation and thus new designs, new characters and new origins to tell.

If you don't like change, if you cannot stand non-canonical movies, then I'd suggest you stop watching Transformers...because it ain't your cup of tea. Transformers thrives on change, much like any advertisement. True the story has become so much more at times, but without Hasbro necessity to sell more toys named "Transformers" all those fictions would have been lost years ago.

Transformers is not a fiction, it's a toyline.

 

[blind_fury]

Transformers is not a fiction, it's a toyline.

lolz.

You speak from a Hasbro exec perspective rather than the hired artist who wrote TF stories and gave the characters/mythos a soul.

 

[ShadowBoxing]

lolz.

You speak from a Hasbro exec perspective rather than the hired artist who wrote TF stories and gave the characters/mythos a soul.

Wow. Yes a John Wayne impersonation and a 22 minute toy commercial constitutes somehow "mythos and soul" in your opinion . No Transformers is not a fiction, nor is it a single fiction, and yes some were better than others but it is to push a toyline not to create smart, thought provoking material. The closest we got to that was Beast Machines which many thought was too aloof and out there for most child audiences (the second would probably be Beast Wars, and that show more or less was it's own thing as well). The people who wrote Transformers and many of the subsequent shows weren't thinking "hmmmm, lets create something thought provoking", they were thinking "we need some sort of advertisement for our toys so lets get a committee together a hash something out that can accompany our other toy related shows at the moment". They weren't creating thought provoking material, because they were aiming it at eight year olds who wanted new toys. If it was suppose to be thought provoking you'd have gotten something along the lines of Robotech or Beast Machines/Wars which featured only small parts of accompanying toy lines but focused more on the characters, plot development and doing it's own thing (Hell most of Beast Wars/Machines never made it past the toyline). Transformers (G1) never did that, they created a 22 minute toy commercial. Every week we were treated to a new line of toys, often with expositionary dialogue with spouted off their tech specs verbatum. Yep, that's real art for you.

We don't get a lot of "high art" in Transformers suffice to say. Simon Furman started that somewhat. The writers of Beast Machines and Beast Wars definitely created something of note. But this insistent claim that G1 was anything but mindless entertainment is absurd. As that one video exclaims "Transformers didn't give a sh** about logic". Logical storylines...didn't exist. Logical character development...forget it. Logical plots...nope. Most of the time it was the same "Megatron wants power...blah blah blah...something energon something...blah blah blah...new Transformer....blah blah...they fight...episode over". And they didn't even shoot each other half the time or portray war in a remotely realistic manner (at least the movie fixed that problem somewhat...even though they were just clearing out toys no longer offered). Get head out of butt, they are elevating the material....because it doesn't take much to elevate it.

 

[nosebleed.]

BF hearts SB.

 

[Hunter Rider]

I'd never argue Transformers with Shadow,ive never met anyone that knows so much about their universe

 

[Boiiinng]

Transformers is not a fiction, it's a toyline.

Then why do you collect the comics?

 

[ShadowBoxing]

Then why do you collect the comics?

Because I like the toyline, and therefore want to collect the fiction. But yes, anyone with half a brain recognizes what the purpose of those comics are...to sell more toys. And no, most of the comic aren't brillant. IDW is getting better with these spotlight series book and these minis. But by and large the comics usually aren't very good fiction.

I think though you're missing the point. The point is Transformers isn't G1. Transformers is a long line of toys with fiction devoted or created off of those toys. To try to say "G1" and that's all there is to Transformers is not only absurd it shows how little people actually know about Transformers. G1 died a little under 20 years ago, and it hasn't come back. Sure they'll rerelease figures here and there, but there haven't been any new G1 toys since that line ended, no new characters, no new storylines (that don't somehow reboot the original), no new episodes (despite two lines having been unrepresented). That was G1, but Hasbro is not in the business of creating things for nostalgia purposes. They cannot rely on 22+ year old wanting a new Prowl G1 figure these days. That's why every two to three years we get a brand new Transformers with a brand new (often with reissued names) cast in a brand new setting. This is very much why the Transformers Movieverse is it's own thing. Because that's how Hasbro works. You want a G1 movie, go watch TFTM86, because that's it. Hasbro has been creating new properties for years. This isn't Superman where one canonical fiction reigns supreme. Hasbro creates separate and distinct lines so they can sell separate and distinct lines.

 

[Figs]

Yes he's yellow.



Umm, the 1939 comic was horribly outdated. Even the Superman comics of 70's did not "play out" like the original comic book. Awful argument. Read my signature. Donner's goal was to stay true to the source material not completely alter it to the point where you couldn't recognize Superman. Bay's "Transformers" is just a generic Robot invasion film. There's nothing remotely related to the Transformers about it except the names.

You have got to be kidding! It's a generic Robot invasion.......yeah I guess just like the cartoon. There wasn't anything Shakespearean(sp?) or mindblowing about the original cartoon. It was about two sides at war, the bad side on earth was always trying to attain energy to win the war.

Basically, I believe the movie is elevating it at least alittle. Aside from what B_F always brings up about the whole fight for oil and resources stuff. In relation to what was going on at the time in the 80's as well as now, which isn't as deep as people think it was. It was cleary out in the open, you didn't need to read between any lines to find it. Too many people act like it's up there with the writings of George Orwell or someone.

Someone is seriously biased towards G1 cartoon to say theres nothing remotely, I repeat, remotely related other than the name.

 

[zanos]

Well you'd be right, except you're wrong. Donner was adapting a franchise based on a character who has a single canon universe devoted to him and his history.

It's not the source but rather the willingness of the director to stay faithful which is the difference. That's why virtually every comic book film are so badly adapted.

Transformers is a toyline, any fiction that's existed only existed to push a toyline.

Technically that's pretty obvious. But ppl who enjoyed the animated series and the comics don't simply look at it that way.

G1 is not Transformers, it's a fraction of a toyline that has been ongoing for 20+, mostly because it adapts, refocuses and changes itself drastically. To say G1 is Transformers ignores the fact that Beast Machines, Transtech, Armada, Cybertron, Beast Wars, and even (as of now) Gobots all fall underneath the Transformers umbrella.

Yes it's a fraction of a toyline and yet it remains the most popular by an enormous margin despite the number of years that has passed since G1. Gee I wonder why that is. Wouldn't it make much more sense to base any new film on G1 rather than to make a generic film about giant Transforming robots? Whether you want to believe or not G1 is transformers to most adults and parents who grew up with it. Even moreso around the world who were slow to get the show and were never even aware of the crappy incarnations. To say Gobots and Transformers are the same is to be completely blind and clueless to what makes them so different. You would work well with Bay.

Hasbro is not in the business of creating relics of 1980s nostaglia, they are in the business of selling toys. Consequently, as the toys change so does the fiction surrounding it. Superman will always be Superman because at the end of the day the only thing DC is concerned with is keeping Superman a lucrative property, and to do that they have to move the character forward in some logical way. Hasbro is interested in selling toys, not old outdated toys from the 80s, but new ones for a new generation. Meaning that every two to three years they are looking at rebooting franchises and recycling names. Optimus Prime has been a truck, a fire engine, a star convoy, a tanker trailer, a bat, a lion, a mammoth and a gorilla among other things. And each one of those characters has something different about him, whether it be in origin or in appearance or in personality, we HAVE NEVER SEEN THE SAME PRIME TWICE. This movie is no different from the slew of properties Hasbro has created over the last 20 years.

You might actually have a point if the only motive behind the new film was solely to sell toys for Hasbro.

Just like back in G1 when they killed off two seasons worth of characters, again the show is faced with a new generation and thus new designs, new characters and new origins to tell.

Yeah that worked out great. The complete and utter failure of the 1986 movie would seem to disprove your theory that Transformers thrives on change. Like you they underestimated the fandom the cartoon had created.
This isn't Voltron or Gobots.

If you don't like change, if you cannot stand non-canonical movies, then I'd suggest you stop watching Transformers...because it ain't your cup of tea.

Umm, I DON'T watch Transformers and for the record I'm not paying to watch the new film either.

Transformers thrives on change, much like any advertisement. True the story has become so much more at times, but without Hasbro necessity to sell more toys named "Transformers" all those fictions would have been lost years ago.

Transformers is not a fiction, it's a toyline.

Correction Transformers as it is presently known is a toyline. G1 actually stood on it's own as an animated and comic book series. Evolution is good, change not so much. Or is crappy shows like Armada, RID, Cybertron, etc your idea of thriving?

 

[CFlash]

You have got to be kidding! It's a generic Robot invasion.......yeah I guess just like the cartoon. There wasn't anything Shakespearean(sp?) or mindblowing about the original cartoon. It was about two sides at war, the bad side on earth was always trying to attain energy to win the war.

Basically, I believe the movie is elevating it at least alittle. Aside from what B_F always brings up about the whole fight for oil and resources stuff. In relation to what was going on at the time in the 80's as well as now, which isn't as deep as people think it was. It was cleary out in the open, you didn't need to read between any lines to find it. Too many people act like it's up there with the writings of George Orwell or someone.

Someone is seriously biased towards G1 cartoon to say theres nothing remotely, I repeat, remotely related other than the name.

I just watched a bunch of eps starting with the original miniseries (admittedly, it has been a while since I've done that) with friends the other night. And I gotta say I still disagree 100% with both you and ShadowBoxing. I purposefully looked for this crapness you guys keep talking about... and I just couldn't find it. That show- commercial or not- was great. Sure, there were some inconsitencies... but all-in-all and remembering what was out at the time, that show was and is all types of great.

Megatron came off as a bonafide genius not some idiotic loon (like Skeletor or Cobra Commander). Some of his dialog is insanely quoteworthy. It was amazing some of the things he said ("Your knowledge is only overshadowed by..."), when I remember all the cliched things Skeletor and other bad-guys would spout off.

Spike talking to Hound about Cybertron. Sure it was quick... but it was dramatic for an afterschool cartoon. I'm still not saying this is Shakespeare, but TF was not only an awesome cartoon *at the time* I think it still holds up well.

“This new planet is rich with sources of energy. But the Decepticons must know this too. So we must find them and stop them.”
Optimus Prime to the Autobots, More Than Meets the Eye
​

 

[blind_fury]

I'd never argue Transformers with Shadow,ive never met anyone that knows so much about their universe

I've never met anyone with such terrible selective memory regarding his fandom. He only recounts the worst aspects of G1 without ever acknowledging one single redeeming value.

Maybe he's jealous because G1 gets so much more attention than his beloved rat and cheetah robots. Why else would a self-professed Transformers fan bash Optimus Prime claiming the character is soulless and disposable?

what a joke.

 

[Figs]

I just watched a bunch of eps starting with the original miniseries (admittedly, it has been a while since I've done that) with friends the other night. And I gotta say I still disagree 100% with both you and ShadowBoxing. I purposefully looked for this crapness you guys keep talking about... and I just couldn't find it. That show- commercial or not- was great. Sure, there were some inconsitencies... but all-in-all and remembering what was out at the time, that show was and is all types of great.

Megatron came off as a bonafide genius not some idiotic loon (like Skeletor or Cobra Commander). Some of his dialog is insanely quoteworthy. It was amazing some of the things he said ("Your knowledge is only overshadowed by..."), when I remember all the cliched things Skeletor and other bad-guys would spout off.

Spike talking to Hound about Cybertron. Sure it was quick... but it was dramatic for an afterschool cartoon. I'm still not saying this is Shakespeare, but TF was not only an awesome cartoon *at the time* I think it still holds up well.

“This new planet is rich with sources of energy. But the Decepticons must know this too. So we must find them and stop them.”​

Optimus Prime to the Autobots, More Than Meets the Eye​

Jesus Christ! If you were to look at any of my posts about this topic(some are also in the Michael Bay press conference thread) you would see that I have never referred to it as crap. I was born in 81 and grew up watching and loving Transformers. I imported the chinese G1 box set quite some time ago because I hadn't watched them in so long.

Don't get me wrong. I don't think the show or its messages were crap, I just don't believe they were as deep and well thought out as some make them out to be.

As far as Megatron goes, I also never called him let alone thought of him as an idiotic loon. Hell, in so many of the episodes he shows his smarts when he tells off Starscream. Telling him off about not doing something because it will mess this plan up or screw that plan up and so on and so forth. So many times in the series he would always yell "Starscream, you fool!" and then follow it up with some knowledge of the situation at hand.

When it comes to the cartoon and the movie, im kinda in the middle on that but leaning towards the movie more. From what ive heard from fans reviews, the main thing this movie could have used to make it more like the show is more dialogue with the Transformers. Primarily with the Decepticons.

 

[CFlash]

I've never met anyone with such terrible selective memory regarding his fandom. He only recounts the worst aspects of G1 without ever acknowledging one single redeeming value.

Maybe he's jealous because G1 gets so much more attention than his beloved rat and cheetah robots. Why else would a self-professed Transformers fan bash Optimus Prime claiming the character is soulless and disposable?

what a joke.

SB said Prime is soulless and disposable?
Man, that's just wrong.

 

[CFlash]

Jesus Christ! If you were to look at any of my posts about this topic(some are also in the Michael Bay press conference thread) you would see that I have never referred to it as crap. I was born in 81 and grew up watching and loving Transformers. I imported the chinese G1 box set quite some time ago because I hadn't watched them in so long.

Don't get me wrong. I don't think the show or its messages were crap, I just don't believe they were as deep and well thought out as some make them out to be.

As far as Megatron goes, I also never called him let alone thought of him as an idiotic loon. Hell, in so many of the episodes he shows his smarts when he tells off Starscream. Telling him off about not doing something because it will mess this plan up or screw that plan up and so on and so forth. So many times in the series he would always yell "Starscream, you fool!" and then follow it up with some knowledge of the situation at hand.

When it comes to the cartoon and the movie, im kinda in the middle on that but leaning towards the movie more. From what ive heard from fans reviews, the main thing this movie could have used to make it more like the show is more dialogue with the Transformers. Primarily with the Decepticons.

I agree. And it's a worthy critique. But, to belabor that point sorta (IMO) belittles all the good things the show accomplished. Sorry if I misread your post.