I love this dialogue.
"Harvey: We did. All of us who let scum like Maroni take over our city. In Rome, they would elect one man to watch over and protect their city.
Rachel: Harvey, the last person the Romans elected was a guy named Caesar and he never gave up his power."
hmmm if not for political corruption I wonder why Caesar didn't give up his power?
It is interesting to me that some people get hung up on the fact that this is derive from a comic mat I remind some that so was Road to Perdition and a History of Violence and lets not forget V.
Some get hung up on Batman vs. the Joker, its not just about that as much as the effect of Batman has on the city and the world. In the Long Halloween it isn't the Joker who creates a world without rules, he does gain power because the world without rules has been created.
Its the same here...
There's no going back. You've changed things... forever.
I remember that scene where Mrs. Gordon finds out that her husband is dead and she creams at Batman, "You brought this upon us!"
I wonder who is really responsible for all the anarchy? Who crossed the line first? Who is responsible?
Batman inspired people to do good, but he also showed them that human law whether it be law enforcement or organized crime.
Bank Manager: "The criminals in this town used to believe in things: honor, respect! Look at you. What do you believe in, huh?"
It is interesting to note that cops and the mob have a lot in common, the departed blurred the lines between cop and criminal and this does the same with good and bad people. The mob believes the anarchist will bring things back to normal and Gordon thinks that his use of a vigilante will bring things back to normal. Even Batman believes it, he thinks that he can just hang his cape up and it will go back to normal.
Joker: "Don't talk like one of them, you're not! Even if you'd like to be. To them, you're just a freak--like me."
But how can it go back to normal? Once one man successfully goes above the law whats to stop another from doing it, one with a much different moral code.
"Fake Batman: What gives you the right? What's the difference between you and me?!
Batman: I'm not wearing hockey pads."
The only difference is the money. Brian Douglas has the same right as any of us to take up the mantle of the Bat. But Bruce wants it to be Dent, a Self made man within the law.
Brian the Fake batman is an interesting part of the film as I think in a way he represents us the batman fan. In a way everyone who read Batman as a kid wanted to be Batman. And so did he.
His character brings an interesting view point to the movie as it shows one of the many ways that Batman has inspired, or maybe affected is a better word, the city.
Batman inspired people to vote for good men to public office, this can be seen in Dent. Batman inspired people like Brian to become vigilantes like him and Batman also inspired....
Joker: Tell them your name.
Brian Douglas: Brian Douglas.
Joker: Are you the real Batman?
Brian Douglas: N-no.
Joker: No? No? Then why do you dress up like him? Woo, hoo hoo hoo!
Brian Douglas: He's a symbol that we don't have to be afraid of scum like you.
Joker: Yeah... you do, Brian. YOU REALLY DO. Yeah...
Joker: Shh shh shh shh. So you think Batman's made Gotham a better place? Hm? Look at me... LOOK AT ME!
You see this is how crazy Batman's made Gotham. You want order in Gotham? Batman must take off his mask and turn himself in. Oh, and everyday he doesn't, people will die... starting tonight. I'm a man of my word.
...The Joker.
The Batman is responsible for the Joker.
Dent isn't crazy at the end of the film, he looks for justice, for those involved in killing Rachel. He gets the mob, the police, the joker, and then he comes back to the three. Batman has responsibility as he taught people that their are no rules by fighting outside the law, in one scene he even asks Alfred if he brought it down upon her, and he did in a way.
Dent blames himself for letting Rachel get killed. He was the closest to her so he should have known that he wasn't just bringing the heat down on himself.
Then he looks to Gordon...
Gordon: I know, I was here, trying to save her.
Two-Face: But you didn't!
Gordon: I couldn't!
Two-Face: Yes, you could have. If you had listened to me...if you stood up against corruption...instead of doing your deal with the devil!
Gordon: I was trying to fight the mob!
Two-Face refers to Batman as the Devil. Interesting, he blames all of this on Batman.
So Batman didnt exactly kill people we know this but he does share in some remote responsibility for the creation of the person who did. He crossed the line first and escalation occurred.
It makes me wonder, is Batman forced into a totalitarian position?
He wanted to pass on his mantle to Dent but he cant, not just because of what happens to Dent, but because if he did someone evil might take up the mantle. He is therefore cursed and can never hang up the cape. Not only that but he has to now prevent more escalation, stop others from crossing the line. The machine at the end is just a symbol of how the position is too much power for one man.
So we see in the commentary on vigilantism a break down of the modern idea of hero, and therefore superhero. They are all just men after all.
Dent is the self made man, he makes his own luck remember, and he has a belief that all men can make themselves good or bad by their work, nature not nurture. Two-face on the other hand doesnt agree that all men are animals (or monsters, I believe that animals behave better than human beings sometimes) as the Joker believes. He has stopped believing in a good or bad nature of men, rather in nurture.
Two-Face: It's not about what I want! It's about what's FAIR! You thought we could be decent men in an indecent time! But you were wrong. The world is cruel. And the only morality in a cruel world... is chance...unbiased, unprejudiced, and fair. His son's got the same chance she had: 50/50.
To him men just do what they do based on what fate has handed them. No longer does he make his own luck, the luck makes him. He sees in all men a little good and a little bad, we are all guilty now.
Batman: What happened to Rachel wasn't chance. We decided to act. We three.
In the end Batman becomes a hero not just because he inspires. The modern conception of a hero breaks down as the Dark Knight shows us that people are fallible even through the myth we create around them. Batman becomes more than a hero as he makes a sacrifice out of his love for the people. Although they maybe good or bad he still sees the possibility of a better future for them. In taking on Harveys crimes or his burden, he not only prevents all the criminals that Harvey put away from being re-released but makes an example of himself, not to take the law into your own hands.
If Batman had given in to the Jokers demands he would have saved a few lives, but after he was unmasked the joker would have killed him and he would have died a hero. After that the Joker would have taken control of the city and many more would die. Instead Batman maintains control of the city. He lives long enough to become the villain.
He is the hero we cant see. Can you avenge evil without becoming it?
Anyways, thought provoking film me thinks.
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