Discussion: Abortion II

[DarthSkywalker]

CBC - American women can obtain abortions in Canada if Roe v. Wade falls, minister says
Families Minister Karina Gould worries Canadian women from border regions could lose abortion access in U.S.

Republicans will have to ban travel to a lot of the world.

Great. We are now the Irish to Canada's Britain.

Also, while I find this very cool of Canada and welcome it. The place where this is going to effect the most people is in the south, and that's a long way from Canada.

 

[Marvolo]

Great. We are now the Irish to Canada's Britain.

Also, while I find this very cool of Canada and welcome it. The place where this is going to effect the most people is in the south, and that's a long way from Canada.

Yep. A drive to Canada is going to be cost prohibitive for poorer Americans. Not to mention passport applications take time and aren't free. Airlines might have cheap flights sometimes, but flying while pregnant seems risky and what about people terrified of flying? Regardless of whether they fly or drive its a trip that would take days and need to be planned in advance and around jobs that probably don't offer paid time off.

 

[Sithborg]

The current distances are already cost prohibitive.

 

[Sithborg]

 

[Marvolo]

It doesn't take ectopic and other life threatening pregnancy conditions into account does it?


Also, I just saw this ad...

 

[OtherwiseKnownAs]

What is wrong with Democrats? Why do they think Republicans are going to give a **** about this now? Where have they been?

 

[Marvolo]

What is wrong with Democrats? Why do they think Republicans are going to give a **** about this now? Where have they been?

Dem strategy has to be performative at this point. Maybe its always been performative. Conflict and something to fight against probably helps with donations to the Party and its candidates.

So they do something they know won't work so they can say they tried, but don't have to commit to anything, and have something to campaign against. Thats my tinfoil hat theory. The alternative is the Dems are genuinely pitifully naive. In both cases,, Americans are paying the price. Not the politicians.

 

[Sithborg]

What is wrong with Democrats? Why do they think Republicans are going to give a **** about this now? Where have they been?

Its a stunt to get Republicans on record with a vote. There is are reason McConnell rarely let anything come up for a vote, because unless it was a win, he didn't want his party to have a record of how they would have voted. It is what its. The Democratic caucus, the minority party, is doing something similar, forcing a vote on abortion that will absolutely fail, in order for Republicans to put their vote where their mouth is.

Also, I suspect a vote like this will be an attempt to put pressure on Sinema and Manchin, as they will have proof they are holding it back. Not that it will do any good, I imagine.

 

[Lily Adler]

Its a stunt to get Republicans on record with a vote. There is are reason McConnell rarely let anything come up for a vote, because unless it was a win, he didn't want his party to have a record of how they would have voted. It is what its. The Democratic caucus, the minority party, is doing something similar, forcing a vote on abortion that will absolutely fail, in order for Republicans to put their vote where their mouth is.

Also, I suspect a vote like this will be an attempt to put pressure on Sinema and Manchin, as they will have proof they are holding it back. Not that it will do any good, I imagine.

They will openly vote no and only lie if their base supports it.

 

[Marvolo]

Collins expected to oppose Democrats' bill protecting abortion rights, citing concerns over scope

Collins has introduced her own bill with Republican Sen. Lisa Murkowski of Alaska to codify abortion rights established by Roe v. Wade. Collins argued on Thursday that the measure put forward by Democrats is too broad and raised concerns about the bill not including a so-called conscience clause, which would allow providers to refuse to perform abortions for religious or moral reasons.

"It supersedes all other federal and state laws, including the conscience protections that are in the Affordable Care Act," said Collins. She added, "It doesn't protect the right of a Catholic hospital to not perform abortions. That right has been enshrined in law for a long time."

If the Catholic Church isn't willing to provide legitimate medical procedures maybe its time for it to get out of the medical business.

 

[MagnarTheGreat]

Daily Kos - Republican prosecutors have a modern tool to hunt down those who have abortions: Our phones (liberal blog)

 

[samsnee]

Shocked Pikachu face

Collins expected to oppose Democrats' bill protecting abortion rights, citing concerns over scope - CNNPolitics

 

[MagnarTheGreat]

Jewish communities react to the possible overturning of Roe v. Wade, which could violate their First Amendment rights

Supporters say an abortion ban would protect unborn children, a belief largely shaped by Christian religious views which claim life begins at conception. For Jews and others who don't share the religious view that life begins at conception, a total abortion ban may not only prevent access to necessary medical care but also violates religious freedoms guaranteed by the First Amendment to practice one's faith without government intervention.

New Research Shows Most Human Pregnancies End in Miscarriage [spontaneous abortion] (2018)

Women have more miscarriages [spontaneous abortions] than live births over their lifetime | New Scientist (2018)

That's a lot of conceptions that end up going nowhere. What kind of deity would create such a system of natural failure?

 

[mclay18]

I honestly think Roe being overturned is turning out Ds here in NC -- and the primary isn't until 5/17. The in-person early votes + absentee ballots is higher than 2018 at this point in time and just a shade under 2020.



That's not a sign of a red wave.

 

[BrollySupersj]

Trying to ban plan b again, the people on the right truly are primitive.

 

[Marvolo]

Female sterilization searches shoot up in the U.S.

Lamont Signs Reproductive Rights Bill Into Law

Under the bill, state and local agencies in the state of Connecticut would be prevented from cooperating in investigations and prosecutions of abortion providers in the state.

 

[Dr.]

An edited extract from Burning Questions (a collection of essays) by Margaret Atwood — which recently appeared as an op-ed in The Guardian.

‘Enforced childbirth is slavery’: Margaret Atwood on the right to abortion

“Women who cannot make their own decisions about whether or not to have babies are enslaved because the state claims ownership of their bodies…”

"And if the state is very fond of babies, why not honour the women who have the most babies by respecting them and lifting them out of poverty? If women are providing a needed service to the state – albeit against their wills – surely they should be paid for their labour. If the goal is more babies, I am sure many women would oblige if properly recompensed."

 

[chamber-music]

As a man I don't get why other men would be in favour of banning abortion. I don't think there are many men who believe intercource should only be for procreation and no contraception has s a 100% success rate.

Most men sleep with multiple women in their life time and aren't looking to have a bunch of different baby mamas.

Also women still die in childbirth at a alarming rate in some areas. There are all sorts of complications that can arise and women with underlying health issues are at a particular high risk.

 

[Zarex]

As a man I don't get why other men would be in favour of banning abortion. I don't think there are many men who believe intercource should only be for procreation and no contraception has s a 100% success rate.

Most men sleep with multiple women in their life time and aren't looking to have a bunch of different baby mamas.

Also women still die in childbirth at a alarming rate in some areas. There are all sorts of complications that can arise and women with underlying health issues are at a particular high risk.

It's 100% about control. Men (and too many women) want men to have control over when, how, and how many children a woman has. The ability to have an abortion takes that control away from the man and puts in in the hands of the only person that matters.

This obviously has nothing to do with "dead babies" given the high infant mortality rates that the residents of so many of our "pro life" states suffer with. The anti abortion folks could have lots more live babies if they put their focus on providing adequate prenatal care and financial support for low income pregnant women. That they don't do so tells you everything you need to know.

I have long thought that if Congress proposed a law providing legal abortions but only if the pregnant lady gets the sign off from her impregnator it would get more support than current pro choice laws.

 

[samsnee]

Correct. It is about control. If they really cared about minimizing abortion, there would be greater access to contraceptives and sex education.

Birth rates are going down because the younger generation knows how expensive it is to have a child. We will have issues in a generation as people start retiring and there’s no one coming up behind them to fill the workforce.

 

[Lily Adler]

Correct. It is about control. If they really cared about minimizing abortion, there would be greater access to contraceptives and sex education.

Birth rates are going down because the younger generation knows how expensive it is to have a child. We will have issues in a generation as people start retiring and there’s no one coming up behind them to fill the workforce.

This was probably the answer for them. Close any obstacles to that future workforce.

 

[Teelie]

Correct. It is about control. If they really cared about minimizing abortion, there would be greater access to contraceptives and sex education.

Birth rates are going down because the younger generation knows how expensive it is to have a child. We will have issues in a generation as people start retiring and there’s no one coming up behind them to fill the workforce.

In a generation? That **** is already here. The Social Security fund will be out of money in a decade. That is only part of the anti-abortion movement. Control is a major thing and it of course ties back to racism.

There is no shortage of articles on it. Seriously. It keeps going on and on.

And the Bible has little to say on it. What there is does not explicitly mention abortion itself as against God. Again, there are a few articles on it.

 

[Holy Slapper]

Paul Begala was a panelist on Real Time last week and he said that even the pro-life Republicans he knows, would allow it in three cases : rape and incest and if their daughter got into trouble.

 

[Marvolo]

I wonder if they'll try to outlaw vasectomies and hysterectomies.

 

[Teelie]

Probably not vasectomies but they will definitely ban hysterectomies because that is Republicans for you.