Discussion: All Things Union

Hey, it's tough being a teacher. They get tenure, so the are protected against being fired and getting the joy of finding another job.
 
I am going to start an anti-union union where everyone in my anti-union union pays dues each year and those dues go to re-election campaigns for politicians wanting to scale back union leaches. Of course I must be paid for my organizational skills. I think a measly $250k a year is humble enough.
 
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Yes you can, anti-union dues are tree fitty out of your paycheck each whenever you get paid.
 
The satisfaction of knowing that your anti-union dues are going to keep politicians in office that help further our small but collective agenda. That and I get to have a personal sushi chef.
 
That isn't how it works, now get back to work.
 
chaseter said:
Look at the service employee comparison you forgot to look at.

Then when you throw in benefits, where public sector clearly are leaps and bounds ahead and at the cost of the tax payer, you have a very large discrepancy between wages. Who pays more into their retirement? Public or private? Who pays more into their health insurance? Public or private? So who do you think has more take home? I guess factcheck.org doesn't fact check common sense.
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So you are trying to say that public sector employees shouldn't negotiate a health plan for themselves and be like those private sector employees who are under insured and go bankrupt because they can't afford to pay their medical bills? What ever happened to the free market where the employee is free to associate and be represented by whomever he pleases and try to get the best deal that he can? Once again this is not a issue about unions. For most of these state that are in financial trouble, it is about revenue as a result of higher unemployment. If that rate were lower we wouldn't be having this discussion at all. In the case of Wisconsin, they actually had a surplus until a month ago. In fact the unions could have negotiated their contract last year, but Scott Walker told the legislature not to negotiate right after he got elected in November.
 
Why shouldn't private sector employees be getting the exact same benefits and insurance as public sector workers? We are after all paying for it anyways. Public sector employees are no better than private sector employees so yes, I do think they shouldn't be able to negotiate such ridiculous pensions and healthcare plans at the cost of the tax payer. But here's the kicker: the union uses dues to pay for that politician's re-election campaign that got them those sweetheart deals like 0.2% pension contributions. That should be illegal and all that amounts to is organized crime. Once again, unions are nothing more than legal mobs.

What did happen to the free market? It is so free, I can't pay 0.2% into my retirement like those lovely Wisonsin teachers and have the tax payer pick up the rest. What did happen to that free market?

This is all about unions. They have bankrupted the state. When the economy goes into the toilet and everyone has to cut back, who are the only people protesting that they don't want to cut back? UNIONS.
 
chaseter said:
Why shouldn't private sector employees be getting the exact same benefits and insurance as public sector workers? We are after all paying for it anyways. Public sector employees are no better than private sector employees so yes, I do think they shouldn't be able to negotiate such ridiculous pensions and healthcare plans at the cost of the tax payer. But here's the kicker: the union uses dues to pay for that politician's re-election campaign that got them those sweetheart deals like 0.2% pension contributions. That should be illegal and all that amounts to is organized crime. Once again, unions are nothing more than legal mobs.

What did happen to the free market? It is so free, I can't pay 0.2% into my retirement like those lovely Wisonsin teachers and have the tax payer pick up the rest. What did happen to that free market?

This is all about unions. They have bankrupted the state. When the economy goes into the toilet and everyone has to cut back, who are the only people protesting that they don't want to cut back? UNIONS.
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There shouldn't be any reason why not. It is up to them to negotiate that benefit. This is America we are talking about, right? The best way to do that though is through a union. Of course, if you are an independent contractor, employed in domestic service, in management, or work for your parents, there is no guarantee that you may get those luxuries.
 
Hey guys, I want the tax payer to pay for my gym membership. If enough of us get together it can be done! POWERRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR

See you guys in Greece! Or Spain! Or Ireland!
 
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dnno1 said:
So you are trying to say that public sector employees shouldn't negotiate a health plan for themselves and be like those private sector employees who are under insured and go bankrupt because they can't afford to pay their medical bills? What ever happened to the free market where the employee is free to associate and be represented by whomever he pleases and try to get the best deal that he can? Once again this is not a issue about unions. For most of these state that are in financial trouble, it is about revenue as a result of higher unemployment. If that rate were lower we wouldn't be having this discussion at all. In the case of Wisconsin, they actually had a surplus until a month ago. In fact the unions could have negotiated their contract last year, but Scott Walker told the legislature not to negotiate right after he got elected in November.
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Government =/= free market.

In a free market, if a businesses costs rise too much, buyers won't purchase the product.

In government, if costs rise too much, you just raise taxes or borrow money against your childrens' futures. Either way, the taxpayer has no choice but to pay (and pay more) . . . unless (s)he moves away. And, we're seeing that happen in high tax areas.
 
StorminNorman said:
Hey, it's tough being a teacher. They get tenure, so the are protected against being fired and getting the joy of finding another job.
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Please do not make general statements about teachers as if all are of the ilk of those in Wisconsin. We aren't... I pay a good portion into my TRS, and I pay a good portion of my health care...I get paid far less than the work I put in, if we put it to hourly, it would be pretty sad looking....

I have about 2 solid weeks off in the summer, far from the 2.5 months that Hannity stated was a benefit of being a teacher. I work through most holidays, and most evenings. I'm a damn good teacher and proud of it, I do not do it for pay. I can assure you there are MANY MORE OF ME OUT THERE....and we find it extremely ignorant, disrespectful and simply rude when people make general statements about who they THINK teachers are and what they do.

As far as tenure, in most states that simply means that the administration must have 2 years of documentation in order to fire a teacher.



And, after reading some of your posts today......your arrogance is far outweighing your intelligence...

A great man does not need to speak of his accomplishments. If a part of your argument is to speak of how much more you know of someone else...you have already lost the argument.
 
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Handsome Rob said:
Government =/= free market.

In a free market, if a businesses costs rise too much, buyers won't purchase the product.

In government, if costs rise too much, you just raise taxes or borrow money against your childrens' futures. Either way, the taxpayer has no choice but to pay (and pay more) . . . unless (s)he moves away. And, we're seeing that happen in high tax areas.
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But in this case, the the Govorner of the State of Wisconsin is claimng that the state has a budget shortfall that they have to overcome buy cutting out state workers right to collectively bargain. This is a budget shortfall that was manufactured by him since he took the surplus that he had and gave it to lobbyists in the form of tax cuts last month. Had he not done that and sincerely sought to balance his budget, we would not be in this situation since he could have applied the surplus on to this years budget. He also foolishly turned away money from the Federal Government in the way of high speed rail funding (about $823 million worth). This is on him, and you can't all of a sudden blame labor unions for this.
 
State workers do not have a right to collectively bargain, they have a contract to collectively bargain. It takes two sides to have a contract. One side says that they don't want to do it anymore. The end.

How did he have a surplus? Why does this say otherwise?
http://www.jsonline.com/news/statepolitics/102748564.html
http://www.jsonline.com/news/statepolitics/109275069.html

How would accepting money from the federal government for high speed rail fix the problem? Secondly, why the flying **** would middle of no where Wisconsin with 5 million people in its entire state need a ****ing high speed train? Dear Jesus wtf!?

This is on the greedy unions who make the exact same salary on average as the private sector worker but have exorbitant benefits that go far and beyond what any private sector worker can ever dream of. Get real, it's time for everyone to cut back and that means poor ole unions.
 
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chaseter said:
This is on the greedy unions who make the exact same salary on average as the private sector worker but have exorbitant benefits that go far and beyond what any private sector worker can ever dream of. Get real, it's time for everyone to cut back and that means poor ole unions.
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chase, I'm hiring. I'll pay you a $56,500 salary . . . and you'll get $43,505 in annual benefits. Sound good?

OK, so I'm not really hiring. But, that's what the average Milwaukee (WI!) public school teacher will make in 2011.

The cost of the benefits is 77% of the salary.

Getting linked to Drudge crashed the actual site, but they have a backup. Here's the link:

http://maciverinstitute.blogspot.com/2011/02/average-mps-compensation-tops-100k.html

Yeah, benefits that are more than 3/4 as valuable as the salary. That sounds like a really, really good use of taxpayer money. :o
 
Wisconsin teachers pay $1 into their retirement for every $56-something that they make. $1 ****ing dollar. That is 0.2% that they pay while the tax payer pays the rest. Isn't that ****ing lunacy?

But hey...lets tax the rich.

How our country hasn't already become the Mad Max future...I really don't know.
 
Kel said:
Please do not make general statements about teachers as if all are of the ilk of those in Wisconsin. We aren't... I pay a good portion into my TRS, and I pay a good portion of my health care...I get paid far less than the work I put in, if we put it to hourly, it would be pretty sad looking....

I have about 2 solid weeks off in the summer, far from the 2.5 months that Hannity stated was a benefit of being a teacher. I work through most holidays, and most evenings. I'm a damn good teacher and proud of it, I do not do it for pay. I can assure you there are MANY MORE OF ME OUT THERE....and we find it extremely ignorant, disrespectful and simply rude when people make general statements about who they THINK teachers are and what they do.

As far as tenure, in most states that simply means that the administration must have 2 years of documentation in order to fire a teacher.
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Please Kel, I have never attacked all teachers, I have never attacked you (in fact I have always praised you as a teacher) and I have frequently mentioned how important teachers have been to me personally. But when you have posters frequently trying to use the "THINK OF THE TEACHERS! THEY ARE SO IMPORTANT AND SO SPECIAL" card, it is always relevant to bring up the fact that teachers enjoy benefits that almost no other profession in the country enjoy.

Even the needing 2 years of documentation in order to fire a teacher bit is a load of crap. If a teacher isn't doing a good job, they should be fired - not be allowed to continue teaching for two years.

And, after reading some of your posts today......your arrogance is far outweighing your intelligence...

A great man does not need to speak of his accomplishments.
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I was personally called out by Marx. And he had reason to, and with the way I talk it would be very easy to criticize me if I couldn't back it up. But I can. Not only can I defend myself rhetorically and philosophically but my personal success serves to give further credibility to my political swagger. If I constantly brought up my success in every conversation, that would be a sign of weakness. But I hadn't mentioned it to Marx or to the board in general before today.

I deserve to have the quality of my opinion weighed by the real life success I have had. Especially with the way I talk.
 
You back it up with your knowledge, post your knowledge.....I have no doubt that you have accomplished what you say you have, I have no reason not to. But this is a message board, and I could say most anything as a "reason" why I think I know more about this or that, but it means absolutely NOTHING on a message board. You back it up in facts, not trophies.

You deserve NOTHING here, none of us do. You don't DEMAND respect Norm, you EARN it.

With the way you talk??? with my friends who are lawyers, doctors, professors, NASA scientists who have YEARS OF EXPERIENCE IN THE AREA THEY WORK....they would laugh and THROW A BEER in your face for your arrogance.

And yes Norm, you told me that you were afraid to bring it up on the board....SOOOO you bring it up in the most arrogant manner you could.....GOOD MOVE.
 
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