Discussion: Evolution

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Mr Sparkle said:
No, man, and this is a simple flat out NO.

Sorry Mr. Sparkle, but for me and what my religion teaches it is flat out yes.


Logic has no place in religion, if it did, there would be...uh....no religion.

I think this attitude is one of the reason why we see the problems in organized religion today. The way many religion people behave is very illogical and instead of using reason to understand the message of scripture, we instead allow emotionalism to rule our behavior which has led to much destruction within our society.

I required faith to know that there is a supreme being that has these laws I have to follow that he told some other dudes a thousand years ago.

I do not believe that its illogical to have faith in something that is greater than me, something or someone that can provide for all of my needs. I feel that it was very logical for to place my faith in my mother as a child, at a time that I was in a helpless state. I also feel its logical to place my faith into a being that I believe is responsible for my creation, growth and development and my everyday substenance.

that's faith, it's so illogical that if I tried to do it with another concept it would sound preposterous.
I don't need faith to see how science applies to every aspect of my existence. it's not about faith.
I don't "believe" in evolution, by logical progression I "see" it.
could this theory prove incomplete? sure, hence a theory.

If it "could" be proven incomplete then IMO the faith you have in your logic allows you to accept it, even though it hasn't been proven.

do I believe that 6,000 years ago two people ate fruit and hence the world?
no, sorry it's illogical.

I agree, that type of fairy tale interpretation of scripture does seem illogical.

I can't have a logical progression to tell me there is a god.
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I respect you viewpoint, but I don't share the particular concept of scripture where its taken literally.

From the understanding of religion that I hold, logical is a key factor in my belief in a Supreme Creator, but certainly faith came first, which was a blind faith.

From the understanding of religion that I hold, logical is a key factor in my belief in a Supreme Creator, but certainly faith came first, which was a blind faith.

Then came knowledge and a rational reflection on that knowledge has assisted in re-enforcing and progressing my faith. A faith based on the logical interpretation of scripture as the direct word of G-d.


Not debating you on this or trying to convince you to think otherwise, I'm just sharing my views.


 
ShadowBoxing said:
Your blase' treatment of most posters here and insistence that somehow the science and research people post is no more than conjecture and heresay (not to mention using out of context quotes, refusing to acknowledge logical dilemmas in your arguments) and your general attitude towards everyone whose posted against you is pretty much counter to this claim...sorry.

You are in no position to complain about the way that I treat most poster in this thread based on the way you have jumped all over my for the views that I hold and live by. And if me being "blase" is the worse you can accuse me of then I should be considered a Saint compared to you.


If you consider reasonable and factually based responses to misconceptions you've tried to spread like the plague as "intolerance" I suggest you lessen the ego a little.

Nothing that I have posted has been a result of my ego. You may not like my position of the topic at hand or my responses, but I am not going to respond in a manner that keeps you from feeling uncomfortable. . All I get from you, is rebuttal (which is fine) laced with insults (which is not cool.) But I'm not going to insult you and I hope I haven't during the course of this thread, if so, I apologize.


Ah yes...the definition of tolerance if I am not mistaken.

Again...and for the LAST TIME. Science is no more a belief than math is a belief or manufacturing clock radios is a belief.

Does matter how many times, scientists have to start with a hypothesis in order to arrive at a theory and then use observation and find evidence to support that theory.

Until you understand this, or until this concept is within your grasp you will never see the problem with the way you've approached this thread or your attitude towards most here...You're so full of yourself that you have found or tapped into some divine truth that you have somehow blinded yourself into believing that everyone should share in this.

Again with the insults. I could very well say the same thing considering the tone of your comments towards me. Sorry that my beliefs offend you or make you uncomfortable, or fustrate you. The beliefs that I hold are not for that purpose, its just what I believe at this point in my life..

We are all at different levels so, even if you are right, and I do have a problem that prevents me from seeing the light, then its my problem. Just be happen that at least you are on the straight way towards enlightenment. I hope to join you someday.


Science could give two flying f***s what "THE TRUTH" is.

How sad. :csad:

It's only concerned with the physical realm, not some metaphysical God induced definition for things. Geez.
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Well for me, G-d is the one who is responsible for the physical realm. In the end the truth will be known, until then, I agree to disagree with you. To each there own.

Peace,

Raybia
 
it's not really that humans came from monkeys...it's that humans and monkeys came from a common primate species...atleast in my understanding (which i admit i don't have a large information base on) and my belief.
 
beatdeadhorse.gif
 
ShadowBoxing said:
Faith is an action. I have faith in X because I believe it.

Theory is a set of data arranged to such a way to make a sensical, testable, observable and logical proof out of said data. Faith is no such animal. Faith is not something I can test or observed or use in practical application...unlike a theory.

I cannot, for example, run an automobile on faith. If I sit in a car with no motor and pray REAAAALLLLLYYYYYY hard the car still will not run...but if I utilize a theory about how chemicals react to produce energy and motion and I can construct a device that then will run that automobile.

I cannot test faith in the same way you test a scientific theory. For example it's arguable that faith in the Buddhist religions is less than faith in Christian religions and Islamic (since there are less Jewish peoples). However I can in no way use this to empirically measure which claim or belief system holds up more strongly to philosophical or historical scrutiny. However I can test theories empically to see which holds more weight in exampling the same phenomena.

Faith is not grounded in facts and logic either. For example if I have faith in myself to accomplise a race it does not in fact actually change the situation of that race. If I am physically unable to do something my faith does not change the situation.
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Many scientific studies have shown that positive thinking and faith do make a difference in achieving goals. No, faith does not change the external factors that may or not prevent you from achieving your goal, but it has an effect on you. Faith in yourself and positive attitude boost a person´s confidence. All specialists agree that confidence is an important factor to achieve your goals. If you have confidence, you won´t get paralyzed by negative thoughts and self doubt and you´ll be more focused on your purpose. The easier it is to picture yourself accomplishing something, the easier it is to picture how you accomplish it. The easier it also will be to not let your inevitable mistakes and defeats to put you down. It even acts on subconscious level. The more your mind believes you will overcome a disease, the harder your body will fight against it. None of that ensures anything, but it effectively improves your chances. This has nothing to do with religion or supernatural, it´s a tested psychological phenomen. Both religious and non-religious people get it wrong by seeing faith as something necessarily irrational. Faith has a point, whether you believe in a God or supernatural phenomena or not.
 
ultimatefan said:
Many scientific studies have shown that positive thinking and faith do make a difference in achieving goals. No, faith does not change the external factors that may or not prevent you from achieving your goal, but it has an effect on you. Faith in yourself and positive attitude boost a person´s confidence. All specialists agree that confidence is an important factor to achieve your goals. If you have confidence, you won´t get paralyzed by negative thoughts and self doubt and you´ll be more focused on your purpose. The easier it is to picture yourself accomplishing something, the easier it is to picture how you accomplish it. The easier it also will be to not let your inevitable mistakes and defeats to put you down. It even acts on subconscious level. The more your mind believes you will overcome a disease, the harder your body will fight against it. None of that ensures anything, but it effectively improves your chances. This has nothing to do with religion or supernatural, it´s a tested psychological phenomen. Both religious and non-religious people get it wrong by seeing faith as something necessarily irrational. Faith has a point, whether you believe in a God or supernatural phenomena or not.
Click to expand...
Good post.
 
ultimatefan said:
Many scientific studies have shown that positive thinking and faith do make a difference in achieving goals. No, faith does not change the external factors that may or not prevent you from achieving your goal, but it has an effect on you. Faith in yourself and positive attitude boost a person´s confidence. All specialists agree that confidence is an important factor to achieve your goals. If you have confidence, you won´t get paralyzed by negative thoughts and self doubt and you´ll be more focused on your purpose. The easier it is to picture yourself accomplishing something, the easier it is to picture how you accomplish it. The easier it also will be to not let your inevitable mistakes and defeats to put you down. It even acts on subconscious level. The more your mind believes you will overcome a disease, the harder your body will fight against it. None of that ensures anything, but it effectively improves your chances. This has nothing to do with religion or supernatural, it´s a tested psychological phenomen. Both religious and non-religious people get it wrong by seeing faith as something necessarily irrational. Faith has a point, whether you believe in a God or supernatural phenomena or not.
Click to expand...

Great comments
 
Kritish said:
I'm getting pretty tired of hearing people call it "just a theory". Creationism isn't scientific because it refuses to accept that it could be wrong, therefore it isn't a "science". Scientists have been able to say when they're wrong whilst I've never hear a creationist even admit the possibility. If you're a creationist I would like you to answer these simply Darwinian questions.

  • Why do men have nipples?-Man's 2nd natural weakness
  • Why do whales have vestigal legs on their bellies?-To play with
  • Why do some form of beatles that never open their wing cases have fully functionable wings?-They look cool
Click to expand...

I personally don't subscribe to science. It can only get you so far in life. After college, what good will theories from a man who had a bad day do for you?

I did not come from monkeys. I don't throw my turds at others, or in the case of the male bonobo monkeys, praticing fencing with my penis.:wow:

-Morzan
 
Morzan said:
I personally don't subscribe to science. It can only get you so far in life. After college, what good will theories from a man who had a bad day do for you?

I did not come from monkeys. I don't throw my turds at others, or in the case of the male bonobo monkeys, praticing fencing with my penis.:wow:

-Morzan
Click to expand...
None of that made any sense whatsoever.
 
Total belm. If you're a stone age kid and you see some lightning and it scares you, the stone age dad will view this as way of keeping you in check, and say something like "uh, yeah, that's er.. Thor! Yeah, Thor, and when you're bad he fires fire from the sky!". So the kid grows up believing in Thor, and when he gets older, he tells his kid the same thing, and eventually, people start actually believing in Thor so as not to anger the Gods and get more lightning.

Likewise, one day there might be a flood, but then peolple see that the flood receeds when they kill a goat. So they make killing a goat an annual thing, and more often than not, they have no floods. They justify the killing of a goat as a sacrifice to Poseidon or something.

There's a fascinating book on these kinds of theories called the God Delusion. I forget the author. Just google it.
 
Fried Gold said:
There's a fascinating book on these kinds of theories called the God Delusion. I forget the author. Just google it.
Click to expand...
LOL Here's a nice quote from it...

Religion ... has certain ideas at the heart of it which we call sacred or holy or whatever. What it means is, 'Here is an idea or a notion that you're not allowed to say anything bad about; you're just not. Why not? – because you're not. If someone votes for a party that you don't agree with, you're free to argue about it as much as you like; everybody will have an argument but nobody feels aggrieved by it. ... But on the other hand, if somebody says 'I mustn't move a light switch on a Saturday', you say 'I respect that
Click to expand...
 
ultimatefan said:
Many scientific studies have shown that positive thinking and faith do make a difference in achieving goals. No, faith does not change the external factors that may or not prevent you from achieving your goal, but it has an effect on you. Faith in yourself and positive attitude boost a person´s confidence. All specialists agree that confidence is an important factor to achieve your goals. If you have confidence, you won´t get paralyzed by negative thoughts and self doubt and you´ll be more focused on your purpose. The easier it is to picture yourself accomplishing something, the easier it is to picture how you accomplish it. The easier it also will be to not let your inevitable mistakes and defeats to put you down. It even acts on subconscious level. The more your mind believes you will overcome a disease, the harder your body will fight against it. None of that ensures anything, but it effectively improves your chances. This has nothing to do with religion or supernatural, it´s a tested psychological phenomen. Both religious and non-religious people get it wrong by seeing faith as something necessarily irrational. Faith has a point, whether you believe in a God or supernatural phenomena or not.
Click to expand...

Faith has effects on the people who hold it. This is what any form of belief does. If this (positive thinking) was the only effect Faith had, them it wouldn't really bother me. The problem is there are other effects.
 
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