Discussion: Evolution

[Canadian Rider]

no...his design is perfect, and god knew that man was to be cast out of Eden.
sorry.
unless you think this took god by surprise it's really not an argument.
and actually god created a "solid" firmament to separate the "lower waters from the upper" or some such nonsense.

He did know that he gave man a choice. It was up to man to decide. He was ready in any event, but the effect of being outside the garden is the result. God chose to demonstrate Love by giving them a choice, but he knew what could happen and was prepared.

14 Then God said, “Let lights appear in the sky to separate the day from the night. Let them mark off the seasons, days, and years. 15 Let these lights in the sky shine down on the earth.” And that is what happened. 16 God made two great lights—the larger one to govern the day, and the smaller one to govern the night. He also made the stars. 17 God set these lights in the sky to light the earth, 18 to govern the day and night, and to separate the light from the darkness. And God saw that it was good.
19 And evening passed and morning came, marking the fourth day.

 

[Mr Sparkle]

jag

may you be forever touched by his noodly appendage.

 

[Mr Sparkle]

He did know that he gave man a choice. It was up to man to decide. He was ready in any event, but the effect of being outside the garden is the result. God chose to demonstrate Love by giving them a choice, but he knew what could happen and was prepared.

oh, so race is part of god's punishment?
how depressingly racist.
and no...god didn't give them a "choice"
god knew exactly what was going to happen.
or else.
he is not god.

14 Then God said, “Let lights appear in the sky to separate the day from the night. Let them mark off the seasons, days, and years. 15 Let these lights in the sky shine down on the earth.” And that is what happened. 16 God made two great lights—the larger one to govern the day, and the smaller one to govern the night. He also made the stars. 17 God set these lights in the sky to light the earth, 18 to govern the day and night, and to separate the light from the darkness. And God saw that it was good.
19 And evening passed and morning came, marking the fourth day.

yes yes.
it also says the waters thing, that's how the bible got down.

 

[Canadian Rider]

LOL...what does this mean.
sorry man I think you are misunderstanding the question.
I never asked about the advantage of standing upright.
I asked why we need to have a complex structure since pretty much the power of god could compel us to stand upright.

Without a kneecap Sparkle you cannot stand up ... your leg does not lock. That is the difference between a primate's leg and yours. You can laugh or poke fun by saying that God can compel us ...

But he is a practical god. By placing the bone in the right place, you can do it anytime you want, with or without his noodly appendages ...

 

[Canadian Rider]

oh, so race is part of god's punishment?
how depressingly racist.
and no...god didn't give them a "choice"
god knew exactly what was going to happen.
or else.
he is not god.



yes yes.
it also says the waters thing, that's how the bible got down.

Race is not a punishment Sparkle. It is man's attitude to his fellow man.

The knowledge of an event does not affect it's outcome. I can watch the result of a poker hand and know the outcome, but you still have the choice of playing the hand or not.

My point was to show you why the stars are there. To answer your comment.

Love that squid baby. Love that squid.

 

[C.F. Kane]

Evolution is just a theory

You know, like gravity or the heliocentric Solar System

 

[Canadian Rider]

To answer the question in your Sig CF ...

Because he could.

 

[ShadowBoxing]

Evolution is just a theory

You know, like gravity or the heliocentric Solar System

Yep...exactly.

 

[Mr Sparkle]

Without a kneecap Sparkle you cannot stand up ... your leg does not lock. That is the difference between a primate's leg and yours. You can laugh or poke fun by saying that God can compel us ...

But he is a practical god. By placing the bone in the right place, you can do it anytime you want, with or without his noodly appendages ...

you're still not understanding the question.

Race is not a punishment Sparkle. It is man's attitude to his fellow man.

The knowledge of an event does not affect it's outcome. I can watch the result of a poker hand and know the outcome, but you still have the choice of playing the hand or not.

My point was to show you why the stars are there. To answer your comment.

Love that squid baby. Love that squid.

1.- it's a consequence of a punishment. part of man's burden, a result of his sin and banishment from eden. a DIRECT result.
or is it not?

2.- sorry, your poker game example is moot, since you're not god.
if you also knew whether or not the hand was to be played or not, then it would apply.

3.- and my point was that both my other statements also apply.
both the astrology one and the upper and lower waters.

4.-

 

[Canadian Rider]

Evolution is just a theory

You know, like gravity or the heliocentric Solar System

Quick question CF ... current scientific explanation of Gravity is that the force that causes it is called ...

And the Heliocentric model wasn't in scripture. Got to hate when someone takes something and tries to make more of it then is in the text ... I think they were called scientists at the time ...

 

[Spider-Who?]

you never answered anything besides how hurt you were

ha! i never said i was hurt. i spent the majority of my time passing comments back in forth with the others, with you on the sideline. but go ahead, please continue being so childish, it is nothing but humorous.

 

[Canadian Rider]

you're still not understanding the question.

1.- it's a consequence of a punishment. part of man's burden, a result of his sin and banishment from eden. a DIRECT result.
or is it not?

2.- sorry, your poker game example is moot, since you're not god.
if you also knew whether or not the hand was to be played or not, then it would apply.

3.- and my point was that both my other statements also apply.
both the astrology one and the upper and lower waters.

4.-

Well sparkle ... I guess I don't understand why you don't see the difference a kneecap makes and why finding evidence of it would be important. I guess the blanket "It evolved" covers it nicely for you.

1) The result of man's leaving the Garden was that Mankind spread across the face of the earth and came to have different appearances. Race is not a punishment unless Man chooses to make it so. You are the one who seems hung up on the race issue?

2) The example is accurate. If I know the outcome of the hand, I have the knowledge of the decision that was made. That knowledge does not make the decision, your choice does.

3) The stars in the sky were as noted for our light at night. Your point about waters then was?

4) t: :heart:

 

[Mr Sparkle]

Thanks to the renaming of this thread " Wilhelm Fever is scientific fact" lost about 10 points of comedy

sorry Mee.

 

[Canadian Rider]

and actually god created a "solid" firmament to separate the "lower waters from the upper" or some such nonsense.

My apologies Sparkle. I missed this line in the changing pages.

You are asking why there is a notation for upper waters?

There are several theories for this. One is the "Water Vapour Blanket" theory which says that originally God had created the earth with an atmosphere that contained a much higher level of water saturation. Some note this as the water that comes down as noted in the Flood and creates the massive amounts of water needed to flood the earth (Noah).

This change in the "Water"/Ozone/Upper atmosphere created a situation where the amount of sunlight falling on the earth massively increased. It would have accounted for the apparently "Lush" and "Rainforest"-like conditions that are noted in the fossil record.

When this layer "dropped" it allowed the sun and thus the level of outside radiation to increase, drying the excess water, possibly leading to the extinction of the dinosaurs and other animal and plant life, as well as explaining why Man suddenly stopped living such long periods as noted in the early sections of Genesis.

Closer to what you were asking about?

 

[Mr Sparkle]

Well sparkle ... I guess I don't understand why you don't see the difference a kneecap makes and why finding evidence of it would be important. I guess the blanket "It evolved" covers it nicely for you.

so "it evolved" with all the intricacies that this entails is a "blanket generalization" but "god did it" is not?

1) The result of man's leaving the Garden was that Mankind spread across the face of the earth and came to have different appearances. Race is not a punishment unless Man chooses to make it so. You are the one who seems hung up on the race issue?

I don't think race is a punishment.
I don't know why race is. it means the creation was imperfect from the get go.
or that adaption and evolution is part of gawds plan.

I like to think the latter.

2) The example is accurate. If I know the outcome of the hand, I have the knowledge of the decision that was made. That knowledge does not make the decision, your choice does.

nope.
since you already know my choice and you created the situation it's all on you.

sorry.

3) The stars in the sky were as noted for our light at night. Your point about waters then was?

my point was that heavens were made for many things.

4) t: :heart:

 

[PhotoJones]

I don't think race is a punishment.
I don't know why race is. it means the creation was imperfect from the get go.
or that adaption and evolution is part of gawds plan.

I like to think the latter.

race pretty much proves evolution to be true. there is no argument against it.

 

[Canadian Rider]

I don't. God made Adam and Eve and we all descended from them. Not an arguement for evolution at all ...

For fun sparkle, type in the following into Google and see what you find ... plesiosaur

Very interesting. From 1977 ... the year Star Wars came out ... a dinosaur swimming around in the ocean. Shouldn't they have evolved ...

Thanks for a civilised discussion. It's been interesting ...

 

[Super Kal]

uh... couple of things.
you never point out how come god's perfect design becomes imperfect.
It'll sound un-p.c. but people with mental and physical disabilities are ...uh...
you know, disabled.
so, my original question is kind of unanswered.

on and again with the second answer.
you are pretty much saying that god's creation is imperfect.
since ..uh...it has to adapt ( this is by your standards not mine, I think evolution is super neato-keen)

oh, and you shouldn't look at the huble telescope since god put the stars in the firmament for astrologers, so they could use it for signs and stuff.
it's just not pretty to look at, there's a plan.

God's perfect design (humans) becomes imperfect when Adam and Eve had sinned by eating from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. We were no longer pure in God's eyes, therefore he took away the tree of life.

btw: thank you for changing the title of the thread.

 

[Angry Sentinel]

Lol, once again I have bumped ‘uglies’ with someone’s sensibility...

actually, I'm not "inferring" anything.
I asked a question.
the answer shouldn't be "go look at the bible" the answer should be...well, and answer.
simple as that.
say, how about this, since the answer is in the bible and you seem familiar with it, how about you adress my questions one by one, mind you, Interpretation is OUT OF THE QUESTION.
just, you know. answer.

I already apologized for misunderstanding you. But just so we’re clear, How can interpretation be out of the question?

I don't expect to have any meaningful discussion about this, as I wouldn't expect to have a meaningful discussion with people that believe that everyday a dragon swallows the sun.
I'm pointing out interesting facts.
if you consider that berating so be it.
I do find it interesting however that your answers to me have been about the intent of my post and my general attitude towards the debate rather than answering the questions and points raised.

Now, just take a look at all that you just posted, especially the emboldened portion.Your disdain for the content aside, why would it be interesting that I don’t provide ‘answers’ to your supposed ‘questions’? You clearly just posted that you don’t expect to have a meaningful conversation with someone who believes in ‘fairy’ tales. So that would make me ‘f**king ESOP and I don’t believe my screen name reads ESOP, nor do I consider myself stupid enough to engage someone in, how do you put it, “meaningful conversation” who admittedly believes that someone with my beliefs is an idiot?

Considering I actually read what you say and take your responses literally, wouldn’t it stand to reason that I wouldn’t even bother trying to ‘explain’ anything to you considering all my ‘explanations’ are based on that stupid sun eating dragon that you clearly have so much patience and understanding for? You have answered my query however, and I now fully understand why you intended to berate, even though you have not admitted to trying to berate.

No, actually it's not.
there's a website called stormfront.
there people believe that all races aside from the white race are inferior.
I find that silly.
I don't want to debate them because they have no evidence to their claims.

Just belief.

you can't debate belief because when you have fact, debating someone whose only defense is that "he believes" something and desperately points to some selective situations to make his case is not only fruitless.

it's..again..dumb.

I invite you to answer the questions in my original post, since it seems you're so familiar with the answers.
again. I beg you not to inject the old standby " what god meant to say here was...." I want answers to my questions.

simple.

First, You have contradicted yourself, you stated earlier that evolution is not fact only THEORY...

for the benefit of everyone, Siva misrepresented his stance.
evolution is NOT fact. it's a theory.
creationism is NOT a theory,

Now, you say that when YOUR using them to ‘debate’ someone’s beliefs, they are FACT… now you tell me, which one is it Mr Sparkle?

Secondly, that still doesn’t negate the fact that, IF they and you were open to ‘said’ discussion it could probably go a long way in helping to understand each other. If for no other reason than to know for certain why you disagree…. That’s NOT silly.
lol, and are you saying Stormfront is not Political?

Thirdly, how is it any less DUMB when you desperately point to some selective, and ADMITTED THEORIES that YOU believe in?

Lastly, Again, how can interpretation NOT be an issue?

 

[Eros]

Listen, the only religion I would invest in 100 percent is the way of the Jedi and the force.

 

[Mr Sparkle]

Lol, once again I have bumped ‘uglies’ with someone’s sensibility...
I already apologized for misunderstanding you. But just so we’re clear, How can interpretation be out of the question?

LOL. I'm sure you believe that.
I was merely pointing out the fact that I posed questions. simple.
why is interpretation out of the question.

obvious.

you can interpret a given portion of scripture to suit your needs.

Now, just take a look at all that you just posted, especially the emboldened portion.Your disdain for the content aside, why would it be interesting that I don’t provide ‘answers’ to your supposed ‘questions’? You clearly just posted that you don’t expect to have a meaningful conversation with someone who believes in ‘fairy’ tales. So that would make me ‘f**king ESOP and I don’t believe my screen name reads ESOP, nor do I consider myself stupid enough to engage someone in, how do you put it, “meaningful conversation” who admittedly believes that someone with my beliefs is an idiot?



Considering I actually read what you say and take your responses literally, wouldn’t it stand to reason that I wouldn’t even bother trying to ‘explain’ anything to you considering all my ‘explanations’ are based on that stupid sun eating dragon that you clearly have so much patience and understanding for? You have answered my query however, and I now fully understand why you intended to berate, even though you have not admitted to trying to berate.

wow, that was a HUUUUUGE block of text on why you won't answer.
a little redundant but awesome to read it was twisty turny and full of suspense.

will he answer the questions?
will he not?
I was on the edge of my seat, and it's am office chair so it was really uncomfortable.

First, You have contradicted yourself, you stated earlier that evolution is not fact only THEORY...
Now, you say that when YOUR using them to ‘debate’ someone’s beliefs, they are FACT… now you tell me, which one is it Mr Sparkle?

LOL, no.
I didn't contradict myself, however you seem to have rather poor reading comprehension.

Evolution IS a theory.
however, and, try to keep up here.
the basis for it is FACT not BELIEF like the basis for YOUR argument?

that clear enough.
good to know that instead of answering you kept looking for threads to pull at, sadly, you failed
now that I've told you "which one it is" I'm guessing you have a bunch of super-special answers ready for me right....Aesop?

Secondly, that still doesn’t negate the fact that, IF they and you were open to ‘said’ discussion it could probably go a long way in helping to understand each other. If for no other reason than to know for certain why you disagree…. That’s NOT silly.
lol, and are you saying Stormfront is not Political?

No AS, I don't think I would debate a dude that thinks the we should kill black people because they are beneath us, seriously.
blind belief is the bane of any "discussion"
see, this is the key difference between one side and the other.
I can accept the hand of a deity in nature.
you can't accept evolution as part of god's (or your deity of choice) plan.

Thirdly, how is it any less DUMB when you desperately point to some selective, and ADMITTED THEORIES that YOU believe in?

I haven't pointed to any "selective" evidence, and I have only supported ONE theory that has a ton of FACTS behind it.
can you say the same.
you can't, otherwise it wouldn't be faith.
see, that' were we part company.

like I have said.

i think

1+ 2 + 3+ X = 7 likely x equals an infinite combination of possibilities ( the most likely being "1" ) in the realm of numbers

you think x equals god. simple.

Lastly, Again, how can interpretation NOT be an issue?

it is an issue, therefore it must be put aside.
because again.
when it comes to scripture it has been pretty much said that it is the word of god.
who are you to Interpret his words.
don't get offended now but don't you think it the height of presumption to come up with "no, what god meant to say was this...."

I don't think god would dig that.

 

[Won '08]

Oiy. Whats the current discussion on now? Have we deviated from the fact that Evolution is a scientific truth?

 

[Apollo]

i always thought evolution was proved and the scientists were later murdered by the chuch...somthing like that

 

[Spider-Who?]

the problem here is that two sides are one a football field, one side is playing baseball, the other basketball (if you get the metaphor).

The greek philosophers had it right, there are two worlds here:

1)the material world, that which can be observed, "man's world"

2)the spiritual world, that which can't be "observed" in the same sense as above, but can be known just as well by a person, "god's world''

one is described by human sight, touch, etc. the other is described by human thought and feeling. the two are seperate. You can't adequatly argue for either side since they cant rightfuly be put together. No side can win. It is ridiculous to think so.

 

[chaseter]

Oiy. Whats the current discussion on now? Have we deviated from the fact that Evolution is a scientific truth?

Evolution is a fact...few things can be considered truth. What one person consideres the truth might not be considered the truth by another. A fact can be presented either way. Adaptation is real, it occurs and has been occuring forever. Evolution has not been proved 100% and is a more radical measure of adaptation. The fact that scientists can't find archeological evidence to prove that men came from apes is the truth. And until that happens, evolution will remain a fact and not a universal truth.